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Post by LeanderMomma on Nov 30, 2023 15:37:10 GMT -6
Round Rock has officially announced as of Wednesday, November 29, 2023 that this will be their last season to have a color guard. Beginning in the fall of 2024, the Round Rock dragon band will be using a dance team instead of a color guard. They have already hired a new dance instructor and are moving full steam ahead.
Is this the way of the future in general for marching bands in Texas?
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Post by cybrunette on Nov 30, 2023 15:55:06 GMT -6
I still truly believe even groups with dance teams should at least build a / keep their winter guard! I'm all for diversity during the fall season, it makes things more exciting & brings new ways to perform & showcase whatever idea is intended. I mentioned last winter season in the Broken Arrow & Vandegrift thread that they definitely have the resources to create a World class guard & I feel like they're letting go of such a beautiful art by holding themselves back.
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Post by philodemus on Nov 30, 2023 16:18:23 GMT -6
The judging community needs to nip this in the bud… that is, don’t be afraid to look these groups directly in the eye and say, “No dance team, no matter how well trained, is as effective as even a C+ color guard that only does flag… when performing on a 300 foot long stage where the audience may be that far away.”
Color guard is an important part of our activity and should rewarded.
Plus, the above statement, in my humble opinion, just so happens to be true.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Nov 30, 2023 16:36:43 GMT -6
The judging community needs to nip this in the bud… that is, don’t be afraid to look these groups directly in the eye and say, “No dance team, no matter how well trained, is as effective as even a C+ color guard that only does flag… when performing on a 300 foot long stage where the audience may be that far away.” Color guard is an important part of our activity and should rewarded. Plus, the above statement, in my humble opinion, just so happens to be true. The problem with every “a guard is better than a dance team” argument always unfortunately boils down to one glaring word. Vandegrift.
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came
Senior Member
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Post by came on Nov 30, 2023 16:52:00 GMT -6
The judging community needs to nip this in the bud… that is, don’t be afraid to look these groups directly in the eye and say, “No dance team, no matter how well trained, is as effective as even a C+ color guard that only does flag… when performing on a 300 foot long stage where the audience may be that far away.” Color guard is an important part of our activity and should rewarded. Plus, the above statement, in my humble opinion, just so happens to be true. I think a dance team can be equal to a color guard depending on the outfit, I think longer dresses can work really well. For example The Woodlands 2013 the color guards dresses are low key better than the flags they end up using for the rest of the show, their movement is way more unique than the traditional flag and I think it works amazingly. But I guess I'm kinda just saying that dance teams work when they have a replacement for the flag so
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Post by ilikeguard on Nov 30, 2023 16:52:21 GMT -6
Removing an integral part of marching band history because "our competitors are doing it" and "it's where the activity is headed" will not make you a better marching band. It's the easy way out, and one that decreases the educational value of the activity for students who put their hard work into their performance. I believe that there are some school and personal politics at play in this decision, because the justifications given in the email make zero logical sense. I'm going to try and address them anyways:
1. Adjusting to the competition. Trying to imitate Vandegrift will not make Round Rock a better visual group. Why on earth would you remove the thing that makes you different from your competitor? If it's about wanting to promote a specific instructor (which it seems to be, in part) why can there not be an integration of a dance company while keeping the color guard? Every single member that participates in the activity is a source of fundraising and recruitment. Band kids are walking billboards for the program and the school district! Why decrease the amount of advertising for your band program?
2. Saying this is the "future" of the activity. What activity are we talking about? Color guard has been an aspect of marching band from its fetal stages. I am aware that Round Rock has insecurities in the visual department – abandoning the color guard will not fix this problem. No other marching band is trending away from its color guard – if anything, the unique combination of dance, hand-eye coordination and upper body strength training that is required for color guard directly benefits the entire band as a whole. These are skills everyone can use. Evolving with the activity is putting band members in dance classes and selling old sousaphones for contras. It isn't the removal of an entire section. Can you imagine a marching band removing any other ensemble? "Well, it's too hard to clean drumline drill, so we're just going to cut it entirely and increase the size of the pit". It makes no sense!
Imagine if Vista Ridge had decided to cut their guard program after the 2021 season. That didn't happen, because the band staff recognized that the issue was with outside choreography and wasn't the fault of the kids or instructors who put their lives into the activity. Any action that takes away from the kids should be immediately torn up and thrown in the trash. Marching band NEEDS to be an equivalent educational experience for ALL of the students. Instead of giving up, BE BETTER.
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origin
Junior Member
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Post by origin on Nov 30, 2023 17:08:46 GMT -6
Wow, this is such an interesting and risky decision. Round Rock also shares the same drill designer with Vandegrift, so I wonder how they will be able to create their own identity without it feeling like they are just trying to copy Vandegrift. Just by looking at some social media posts, it seems like the community is rightfully very upset and blindsided by this decision.
Also, did they not even consider having both a dance team and guard, like what Reagan and previously CTJ have done??
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Post by thewho on Nov 30, 2023 17:24:10 GMT -6
Full agreement with all of these points. Absurd and absolute poor decision making. The one thing that has kept Round Rock strong all these years through all the years were the kids and chopping an integral, successful part of the program with no discernible or understandable reason is only going to wreck the program's, Mobley's, and school's reputation further. Vandy Bandy is good because they excel in all things bandy, not just because solely of dance-y.
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Post by lws562 on Nov 30, 2023 18:21:20 GMT -6
I’ve never contributed to the forums before, but I felt that it might be valuable to have someone within the Dragon Band community’s perspective.
All of us here are just so completely dumbfounded by this decision. There was no warning given, no discussion with any students, parents, or members of the community. This is truly bizarre. It has been so heartbreaking to see how devastated the members of colorguard are. At RRHS, colorguard is a place where many people who have never had a “thing” finally find something they are passionate about and a place where they belong. Why would we want to take that away? No information as to why this change is being made has been given. I’m sure that there are things going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about, but why not at least provide that information to the community? Even if it’s not a great reason, something is better than nothing.
I also wonder WHO this change is being made for. It is clearly not for the benefit of the colorguard students. Isn’t fine arts education supposed to be for the students? How is eliminating the guard program helping them in any way? The student leaders in this program are taught to be servant leaders. It’s not about making the leaders feel successful or good about themselves, it’s about the people they are teaching and helping. I feel that this decision, made without any collaboration from the students and that is actively harming students, fundamentally goes against that idea of servitude to others.
I think that incorporating dance teams into band is actually a great idea! I think that having well-trained dancers on the field can really elevate a production. However, dance teams and colorguard CAN coexist. They both have value, and we do not need to get rid of one to have the other. It also shocks me that they are cutting the winterguard program, too. Once again, I wonder, why?
I’ve also seen a lot of comparisons to Vandegrift, but the situations within these two schools are fundamentally different. Vandegrift never had a colorguard performing with their band, while RR is dissolving a large colorguard program to replace with a dance team. Vandegrift never had to get rid of anything.
I can’t imagine what these students are going through right now. They had no idea that, just two and a half weeks ago, they would be performing their last marching show ever with the Dragon Band. I would have to imagine that somebody knew that this was going to happen. If I was a teacher who knew what was about to happen, I wouldn’t be able to look my students in the eye. I feel like the decision was not made with the interests of the students involved in guard in mind. Aren’t they the most important people in this equation? We should be supporting our students and helping them to feel like they belong, not cutting their program and leaving them without a community.
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Post by gregorydf on Nov 30, 2023 18:25:16 GMT -6
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Post by indianabandkid12 on Nov 30, 2023 18:46:46 GMT -6
Everyone who can sign this petition should. They're currently at 4014 signatures, and it is growing rapidly. Maybe it can change this and turn it around.
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Post by FaultLineBlues on Nov 30, 2023 18:48:58 GMT -6
It's very funny for Round Rock's visual design with props and drill these past years to be (imo) so milquetoast, and their solution is to just cut out guard, one of the few bits of visual flair they actually had, instead of the increased integration of ADDING dance.
Maybe it comes off as rude, but it's just so silly to see what seems to be so many opportunities for Vis GE increases and more clever uses of their massive numbers, just for them to take what they perceive as essentially the easy way out.
To look at another program with the same initials, if I'm remembering correctly Ronald Reagan weaves together their guard and dance team to great effect, and their utilization of their band member numbers in creative and interesting drill is always a highlight of their shows. I wish Round Rock could move more in that direction in terms of visual flair. They seem to rarely take advantage of their size for visual effect.
I have more I could say, but I won't go too crazy for now.
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Post by ilikeguard on Nov 30, 2023 19:24:53 GMT -6
What’s really irritating is that they apparently aren’t incorporating the existing dance team – this is a new, band exclusive company. Which basically means they’re going to get the kids who were cut from the already established dance team who will then jump ship back to the real dance team once they’re good enough…very smart way to ensure you have committed performers. 😐
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Post by LeanderMomma on Nov 30, 2023 19:36:42 GMT -6
The judging community needs to nip this in the bud… that is, don’t be afraid to look these groups directly in the eye and say, “No dance team, no matter how well trained, is as effective as even a C+ color guard that only does flag… when performing on a 300 foot long stage where the audience may be that far away.” Color guard is an important part of our activity and should rewarded. Plus, the above statement, in my humble opinion, just so happens to be true. I think a dance team can be equal to a color guard depending on the outfit, I think longer dresses can work really well. For example The Woodlands 2013 the color guards dresses are low key better than the flags they end up using for the rest of the show, their movement is way more unique than the traditional flag and I think it works amazingly. You are so right about those dresses. That still ranks as one of my all time favorite marching shows to date!
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Post by LeanderMomma on Nov 30, 2023 19:50:23 GMT -6
What’s really irritating is that they apparently aren’t incorporating the existing dance team – this is a new, band exclusive company. Which basically means they’re going to get the kids who were cut from the already established dance team who will then jump ship back to the real dance team once they’re good enough…very smart way to ensure you have committed performers. 😐 That’s the thing. Round Rock already has two phenomenal dance teams not affiliated with the band. None of those kids are going to move over to band, get real! So basically RR is going to have to somehow convince some of the middle school dancers that they’d surely rather join band than be a RR Dragonette some day! Yeah, not happening.
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Post by artsfan on Nov 30, 2023 19:50:55 GMT -6
If anyone that is reading this lives in the Round Rock District, here's a couple tips from someone who works in a high school as an admin. Address your concerns via email to the head principal, superintendent, and all school board members. Follow that up with a phone call to someone in power...the super or board president. The more pressure they get, the more likely they will step in to reverse this decision.
Remind them that school funding comes from your property taxes. Got any levies coming up? Remind them that you can be a vocal group come this time.
If all else, fails...starting documenting Mr. Mobley's behavior as an educator. Go to the board office and ask to see his personnel file (this should be public record) Put pressure on him/his employment...Now, Is this an extreme way to get the guard back, Sure...but he had no problem firing their guard director who build their program over the last few years and taking away this activity from his students. So all is fair in love and war.
Tah for now..
PS...I bet there are secret meetings going on right now within the colorguard adjudication community about this. Colorguard/Visual judges have set a dangerous precedent with rewarding Vandegrift, deservedly so or not. Watch Vandy to take some hits in visual and the auxiliary caption next season...you heard it here first. WGI/BOA and the powers that be within the activity will intervene to save the sport for the greater good...they won't let this trend get out of control. That will come at Vandy's expense, and potentially Round Rocks.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Nov 30, 2023 19:52:00 GMT -6
I’ve never contributed to the forums before, but I felt that it might be valuable to have someone within the Dragon Band community’s perspective. All of us here are just so completely dumbfounded by this decision. There was no warning given, no discussion with any students, parents, or members of the community. This is truly bizarre. It has been so heartbreaking to see how devastated the members of colorguard are. At RRHS, colorguard is a place where many people who have never had a “thing” finally find something they are passionate about and a place where they belong. Why would we want to take that away? No information as to why this change is being made has been given. I’m sure that there are things going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about, but why not at least provide that information to the community? Even if it’s not a great reason, something is better than nothing. I also wonder WHO this change is being made for. It is clearly not for the benefit of the colorguard students. Isn’t fine arts education supposed to be for the students? How is eliminating the guard program helping them in any way? The student leaders in this program are taught to be servant leaders. It’s not about making the leaders feel successful or good about themselves, it’s about the people they are teaching and helping. I feel that this decision, made without any collaboration from the students and that is actively harming students, fundamentally goes against that idea of servitude to others. I think that incorporating dance teams into band is actually a great idea! I think that having well-trained dancers on the field can really elevate a production. However, dance teams and colorguard CAN coexist. They both have value, and we do not need to get rid of one to have the other. It also shocks me that they are cutting the winterguard program, too. Once again, I wonder, why? I’ve also seen a lot of comparisons to Vandegrift, but the situations within these two schools are fundamentally different. Vandegrift never had a colorguard performing with their band, while RR is dissolving a large colorguard program to replace with a dance team. Vandegrift never had to get rid of anything. I can’t imagine what these students are going through right now. They had no idea that, just two and a half weeks ago, they would be performing their last marching show ever with the Dragon Band. I would have to imagine that somebody knew that this was going to happen. If I was a teacher who knew what was about to happen, I wouldn’t be able to look my students in the eye. I feel like the decision was not made with the interests of the students involved in guard in mind. Aren’t they the most important people in this equation? We should be supporting our students and helping them to feel like they belong, not cutting their program and leaving them without a community. Brilliantly said and I wish this exact sentiment could be shared at the guard meeting that is happening as we speak!
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Post by indyguy8362 on Nov 30, 2023 20:12:44 GMT -6
I’m pro guard and anti dance company. Imo winter guards make your marching band better. Where i went to school a lot of wind players would do winter guard or cymbals for drumline and believe it made us better visually in the fall.
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Post by thewho on Nov 30, 2023 20:31:37 GMT -6
I'm going to step in here quickly and say while being extremely loud about discontent with the move, advocating for extreme scrunity on basis of conspiracal allegations with the intention of torching the director should not be tolerated. There is NOTHING of any kind that has been stated about the band director. We're all steamed right now and that's fine, but going scorched is not the correct thing to do.
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Post by ilikeguard on Nov 30, 2023 20:34:26 GMT -6
I’m pro guard and anti dance company. Imo winter guards make your marching band better. Where i went to school a lot of wind players would do winter guard or cymbals for drumline and believe it made us better visually in the fall. Why are we pitting two queens against one another
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Post by LeanderMomma on Nov 30, 2023 20:36:01 GMT -6
THEY DID IT Y’ALL! The meeting tonight was HUGE. They are going to have a dance team and they will KEEP THE GUARD!
Oh I’m so very happy right now. This is the best possible news!
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Post by ilikeguard on Nov 30, 2023 20:37:18 GMT -6
THEY DID IT Y’ALL! The meeting tonight was HUGE. They are going to have a dance team and they will KEEP THE GUARD! Oh I’m so very happy right now. This is the best possible news! Hoping this sticks!! Shows you how much power our voices have
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Post by thewho on Nov 30, 2023 20:38:10 GMT -6
Thrilled.
I don't really understand why this wasn't done in the first place. Just silly as hell that it took all of this pressure for an incredibly numbskulled decision.
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Post by Allohak on Nov 30, 2023 20:40:58 GMT -6
I'm going to step in here quickly and say while being extremely loud about discontent with the move, advocating for extreme scrunity on basis of conspiracal allegations with the intention of torching the director should not be tolerated. There is NOTHING of any kind that has been stated about the band director. We're all steamed right now and that's fine, but going scorched is not the correct thing to do. I'm going to disagree here. Drastic times call for significant and exhaustive measures. The decision that was made was in poor judgment and the program's population deserves better leadership (or, at the very least, clarity about such developing situations being explored before they are suddenly announced as happening). The way to show that the opposing voice is strong and serious is absolutely to exhibit willingness to take the steps artsfan laid out.
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Post by bigtrombone on Nov 30, 2023 20:42:30 GMT -6
THEY DID IT Y’ALL! The meeting tonight was HUGE. They are going to have a dance team and they will KEEP THE GUARD! Oh I’m so very happy right now. This is the best possible news! Oh to have been a fly on a wall at that meeting. Glad to see this! Best case scenario!
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Post by paddy on Nov 30, 2023 20:45:51 GMT -6
If anyone that is reading this lives in the Round Rock District, here's a couple tips from someone who works in a high school as an admin. Address your concerns via email to the head principal, superintendent, and all school board members. Follow that up with a phone call to someone in power...the super or board president. The more pressure they get, the more likely they will step in to reverse this decision. Remind them that school funding comes from your property taxes. Got any levies coming up? Remind them that you can be a vocal group come this time. If all else, fails...starting documenting Mr. Mobley's behavior as an educator. Go to the board office and ask to see his personnel file (this should be public record) Put pressure on him/his employment...Now, Is this an extreme way to get the guard back, Sure...but he had no problem firing their guard director who build their program over the last few years and taking away this activity from his students. So all is fair in love and war. Tah for now.. PS...I bet there are secret meetings going on right now within the colorguard adjudication community about this. Colorguard/Visual judges have set a dangerous precedent with rewarding Vandegrift, deservedly so or not. Watch Vandy to take some hits in visual and the auxiliary caption next season...you heard it here first. WGI/BOA and the powers that be within the activity will intervene to save the sport for the greater good...they won't let this trend get out of control. That will come at Vandy's expense, and potentially Round Rocks. There is actually some pretty terrible advice in here. First off, work through the chain of command and the normal process for resolving conflict. 1. Start with the teacher 2. If you don’t receive satisfactory response, move on to the building principal 3. If you don’t receive a satisfactory response move to central office. 4. If you don’t find resolution there, then approach the school board in a formal way. The job of the school board is to set policy and hire a superintendent. They rely on the superintendent and the staff hired by the superintendent to deal with these issues. They are many times the last step in an appeal/dispute process. Moving them to the frontlines of the conflict disrupts their role. I’ve worked in and around school administration for over 2 decades and shooting straight to the top of the food chain simply aggravates the situation. Nothing entrenches a teacher and principal more than being skipped over and getting a call from the superintendent about a parent complaint. I receive parent complaints/calls about the people who report to me at times. My first questions is ALWAYS, “Have you spoke to the person you are complaining about?” If they haven’t, I ask that they start there and then I will be happy to revisit the issue with them. If they insist on unburdening themselves to me, and they haven’t spoken to the person in question, I take notes, supply them to my subordinate and then they will call the parent back. Also, personnel records are not public record in most states. And going after someone’s job over a disagreement is a weak move. If employee has been abusive, inappropriate or unethical that is a valid time to lodge a complaint. Trying to get someone fired over this (as egregious as it may be) is chickenshit. As someone who works in schools, to see someone who claims to be a school admin suggest this course of attack disappoints me.
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Post by thewho on Nov 30, 2023 20:46:59 GMT -6
If anyone that is reading this lives in the Round Rock District, here's a couple tips from someone who works in a high school as an admin. Address your concerns via email to the head principal, superintendent, and all school board members. Follow that up with a phone call to someone in power...the super or board president. The more pressure they get, the more likely they will step in to reverse this decision. Remind them that school funding comes from your property taxes. Got any levies coming up? Remind them that you can be a vocal group come this time. If all else, fails...starting documenting Mr. Mobley's behavior as an educator. Go to the board office and ask to see his personnel file (this should be public record) Put pressure on him/his employment...Now, Is this an extreme way to get the guard back, Sure...but he had no problem firing their guard director who build their program over the last few years and taking away this activity from his students. So all is fair in love and war. Tah for now.. PS...I bet there are secret meetings going on right now within the colorguard adjudication community about this. Colorguard/Visual judges have set a dangerous precedent with rewarding Vandegrift, deservedly so or not. Watch Vandy to take some hits in visual and the auxiliary caption next season...you heard it here first. WGI/BOA and the powers that be within the activity will intervene to save the sport for the greater good...they won't let this trend get out of control. That will come at Vandy's expense, and potentially Round Rocks. There is actually some pretty terrible advice in here. First off, work through the chain of command and the normal process for resolving conflict. 1. Start with the teacher 2. If you don’t receive satisfactory response, move on to the building principal 3. If you don’t receive a satisfactory response move to central office. 4. If you don’t find resolution there, then approach the school board in a formal way. The job of the school board is to set policy and hire a superintendent. They rely on the superintendent and the staff hired by the superintendent to deal with these issues. They are many times the last step in an appeal/dispute process. Moving them to the frontlines of the conflict disrupts their role. I’ve worked in and around school administration for over 2 decades and shooting straight to the top of the food chain simply aggravates the situation. Nothing entrenches a teacher and principal more than being skipped over and getting a call from the superintendent about a parent complaint. I receive parent complaints/calls about the people who report to me at times. My first questions is ALWAYS, “Have you spoke to the person you are complaining about?” If they haven’t, I ask that they start there and then I will be happy to revisit the issue with them. If they insist on unburdening themselves to me, and they haven’t spoken to the person in question, I take notes, supply them to my subordinate and then they will call the parent back. Also, personnel records are not public record in most states. And going after someone’s job over a disagreement is a weak move. If employee has been abusive, inappropriate or unethical that is a valid time to lodge a complaint. Trying to get someone fired over this (as egregious as it may be) is chickenshit. As someone who works in schools, to see someone who claims to be a school admin suggest this course of attack disappoints me. This. Witch hunting is not the right response here.
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Post by paddy on Nov 30, 2023 20:48:18 GMT -6
I'm going to step in here quickly and say while being extremely loud about discontent with the move, advocating for extreme scrunity on basis of conspiracal allegations with the intention of torching the director should not be tolerated. There is NOTHING of any kind that has been stated about the band director. We're all steamed right now and that's fine, but going scorched is not the correct thing to do. I'm going to disagree here. Drastic times call for significant and exhaustive measures. The decision that was made was in poor judgment and the program's population deserves better leadership (or, at the very least, clarity about such developing situations being explored before they are suddenly announced as happening). The way to show that the opposing voice is strong and serious is absolutely to exhibit willingness to take the steps artsfan laid out. This is deplorable. Good teachers and good admins leave education over this type of BS.
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Post by principalagent on Nov 30, 2023 20:52:39 GMT -6
I'm going to disagree here. Drastic times call for significant and exhaustive measures. The decision that was made was in poor judgment and the program's population deserves better leadership (or, at the very least, clarity about such developing situations being explored before they are suddenly announced as happening). The way to show that the opposing voice is strong and serious is absolutely to exhibit willingness to take the steps artsfan laid out. This is deplorable. Good teachers and good admins leave education over this type of BS. Not y’all having me agree with paddy in the off season…
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Post by Allohak on Nov 30, 2023 20:54:31 GMT -6
I'm going to disagree here. Drastic times call for significant and exhaustive measures. The decision that was made was in poor judgment and the program's population deserves better leadership (or, at the very least, clarity about such developing situations being explored before they are suddenly announced as happening). The way to show that the opposing voice is strong and serious is absolutely to exhibit willingness to take the steps artsfan laid out. This is deplorable. Good teachers and good admins leave education over this type of BS. If it were my program, I would no longer be able to trust that the leadership in place had the program's best interests in mind. You can disagree, and that's fine.
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