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Post by hewhowaits on May 5, 2023 5:17:01 GMT -6
the 43 events we already have threads for isn't too many? But we have to watch all these events. Our Saturdays are mega ruined. The ruined Saturdays are those from mid-November through Labor Day weekend with no marching band competitions. Yes, there are some shows that take place on Labor Day weekend (Northmont Premier, for example). Note: Northmont Premier is adjudicated but not scored, so not technically a competition.
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Post by Allohak on May 5, 2023 5:56:01 GMT -6
But we have to watch all these events. Our Saturdays are mega ruined. The ruined Saturdays are those from mid-November through Labor Day weekend with no marching band competitions. Yes, there are some shows that take place on Labor Day weekend (Northmont Premier, for example). Note: Northmont Premier is adjudicated but not scored, so not technically a competition.That's why we have indoor season Feb-mid Apr
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Post by LeanderMomma on May 5, 2023 6:31:03 GMT -6
The ruined Saturdays are those from mid-November through Labor Day weekend with no marching band competitions. Yes, there are some shows that take place on Labor Day weekend (Northmont Premier, for example). Note: Northmont Premier is adjudicated but not scored, so not technically a competition.That's why we have indoor season Feb-mid Apr my thoughts exactly. And DCI in the summertime.
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Post by Allohak on May 5, 2023 7:13:02 GMT -6
That's why we have indoor season Feb-mid Apr my thoughts exactly. And DCI in the summertime. Mehhhhh
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Post by LeanderMomma on May 5, 2023 11:06:10 GMT -6
my thoughts exactly. And DCI in the summertime. Mehhhhh I like it for the most part. And I know lots of the students participating so I enjoy watching them experience marching band on an insanely skilled level. 😁 What a thrill that must be! But some of DCI is definitely meh.
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Post by marimba11 on May 5, 2023 13:03:35 GMT -6
I feel like the seasons all feel about as long… (although now DCI is cut short which makes sense bc of $$$). But IMO wgi starts way too early. They have auditions in like September now and then continue more frequently than DCI which is usually only every month at most.
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Post by yayband914 on May 14, 2023 19:44:11 GMT -6
BOA’s Facebook page posted about a big announcement coming on Tuesday the 16th. I wonder… 👀
(They normally don't hype the release of attendance lists though, so I'm not holding my breath.)
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Post by dbalash on May 14, 2023 20:20:52 GMT -6
BOA’s Facebook page posted about a big announcement coming on Tuesday the 16th. I wonder… 👀 (They normally don't hype the release of attendance lists though, so I'm not holding my breath.) Probably adding the 5,001st Texas regional.
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Post by yayband914 on May 14, 2023 20:54:36 GMT -6
BOA’s Facebook page posted about a big announcement coming on Tuesday the 16th. I wonder… 👀 (They normally don't hype the release of attendance lists though, so I'm not holding my breath.) Probably adding the 5,001st Texas regional. If it's another regional announcement, that would be #30 this season (including Supers and Grand Nats, excluding affiliate events). Wasn't there a conversation somewhere in the not-too-distant past about how 28 was the maximum possible number of events they could hold for some reason I can't remember?
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Post by salvation on May 14, 2023 21:19:45 GMT -6
BOA’s Facebook page posted about a big announcement coming on Tuesday the 16th. I wonder… 👀 (They normally don't hype the release of attendance lists though, so I'm not holding my breath.) Probably adding the 5,001st Texas regional. Good.
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Post by hewhowaits on May 15, 2023 5:57:04 GMT -6
BOA’s Facebook page posted about a big announcement coming on Tuesday the 16th. I wonder… 👀 (They normally don't hype the release of attendance lists though, so I'm not holding my breath.) Probably adding the 5,001st Texas regional. Which will get us to about 47% of the number they could fill.
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Post by hewhowaits on May 15, 2023 6:02:47 GMT -6
Probably adding the 5,001st Texas regional. If it's another regional announcement, that would be #30 this season (including Supers and Grand Nats, excluding affiliate events). Wasn't there a conversation somewhere in the not-too-distant past about how 28 was the maximum possible number of events they could hold for some reason I can't remember? I recall there being a thread about it but not the specifics of the conversation. It may have revolved around how many events could be staffed on a given weekend, including the impact of Super Regionals. Last year was the first time we had a "Super plus three" weekend and all of the events went off without a hitch so that barrier has been removed (we have two such weekends this year). I believe this is the first time we've had five events on the same weekend (October 7) and a first time with SASR plus two (at least since SASR grew to the levels we see now).
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Post by dbalash on May 15, 2023 13:10:12 GMT -6
Probably adding the 5,001st Texas regional. Good.
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Post by yayband914 on May 16, 2023 9:23:54 GMT -6
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Post by Allohak on May 16, 2023 9:37:23 GMT -6
Which is...not...actually news? *shrug
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Post by dbalash on May 16, 2023 11:07:28 GMT -6
Which is...not...actually news? *shrug Enter "boo" .gif here.
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Post by principalagent on May 17, 2023 12:45:50 GMT -6
Which is...not...actually news? *shrug Enter "boo" .gif here. Reminds me of two weeks ago when they tried to hype up a “new” regional that everyone already knew about.
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Post by hewhowaits on May 19, 2023 13:11:52 GMT -6
Preliminary staff assignments for the 2023 events came out today. All events on the schedule have assignments, including those the board posters are speculating may be cancelled due to low enrollment.
This doesn't mean all of the events WILL happen, but it's a positive sign.
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Post by yayband914 on May 19, 2023 14:01:38 GMT -6
Preliminary staff assignments for the 2023 events came out today. All events on the schedule have assignments, including those the board posters are speculating may be cancelled due to low enrollment. This doesn't mean all of the events WILL happen, but it's a positive sign. ❤️
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Post by dbalash on May 31, 2023 21:50:26 GMT -6
Listed in the general event procedures 2023 .pdf:
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Post by philodemus on Jun 1, 2023 4:58:15 GMT -6
Listed in the general event procedures 2023 .pdf: So, first thought: we’re gonna change up the Class Reps in some type of manner which doesn’t put Marian on at 6 AM. Maybe? Or am I being conspiratorial.
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Post by Allohak on Jun 1, 2023 5:29:06 GMT -6
Listed in the general event procedures 2023 .pdf: So, first thought: we’re gonna change up the Class Reps in some type of manner which doesn’t put Marian on at 6 AM. Maybe? Or am I being conspiratorial. Maybe. Also maybe they're just consolidating so things are in one place and not spread out requiring a scavenger hunt for every tidbit one might want to check
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Post by hewhowaits on Jun 1, 2023 10:01:22 GMT -6
Listed in the general event procedures 2023 .pdf: The semifinals schedule has already been derived using a multi-step process. This may be semantics only OR: a) Top 22 overall replaced by Top 11 each panel (not much benefit, IMO), b) Next 8 all go before Top 22 (would be a positive change, IMO), c) More separation into groupings within the Top 22 (potentially positive, IMO) and Next 8 (not much benefit, IMO) d) some combination of the above.We'll have to wait and see if the overall execution changes. If it does, my well-rehearsed explanation to make it as simple as possible for those with no understanding of the process will have to be updated.
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Post by bandirectorman on Jun 1, 2023 10:05:03 GMT -6
So, first thought: we’re gonna change up the Class Reps in some type of manner which doesn’t put Marian on at 6 AM. Maybe? Or am I being conspiratorial. Maybe. Also maybe they're just consolidating so things are in one place and not spread out requiring a scavenger hunt for every tidbit one might want to check Their way of organizing semifinals was outdated and wrong, if it is truly a competition. If it's truly a competition, all bands participating should be able to perform at any time during the day and be strong enough to make finals -- to truly be deserving of finals. Whether it's the top scoring band on Thursday who goes on at 7am or the 23rd overall placed band who goes at 12:30pm, judges should be able to figure out exactly what they're seeing and judging. I am sick and tired of the training wheels approach that BOA has relied upon for years and am cautiously optimistic that they will stop discriminating against bands based on their Grade 10-12 school enrollment size. To be clear, semifinals has been a great thing for BOA, but the Top 30+class qualifiers should also represent a true competition. Not language that says "more likely to make finals" based on previous, not current, performances. I hope they completely revamp the semifinals round. Take at least the Top 4 in each class and make it a real competition. Advance the top two in each class to the actual finals round. Determine all class champions in the actual finals round. Wow, that's far more positively life changing than weird class exhibition performances that segregate and.. don't celebrate.. excellence across the 'subjective' medium.
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Post by hewhowaits on Jun 1, 2023 10:16:05 GMT -6
If it's truly a competition, all bands participating should be able to perform at any time during the day and be strong enough to make finals -- to truly be deserving of finals. Whether it's the top scoring band on Thursday who goes on at 7am or the 23rd overall placed band who goes at 12:30pm, judges should be able to figure out exactly what they're seeing and judging. I am sick and tired of the training wheels approach that BOA has relied upon for years and am cautiously optimistic that they will stop discriminating against bands based on their Grade 10-12 school enrollment size. At least it's not nearly as "training wheels" as DCI. Performance order is last place in the previous round performs first and first place in the previous round performs last. The same arguments about groups being strong enough to go in any order and judges being qualified enough to get the scores "right" apply there (maybe more so with the judges because they've all seen all of the shows multiple times by the end of the season).
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Post by philodemus on Jun 1, 2023 12:27:08 GMT -6
Maybe. Also maybe they're just consolidating so things are in one place and not spread out requiring a scavenger hunt for every tidbit one might want to check Their way of organizing semifinals was outdated and wrong, if it is truly a competition. If it's truly a competition, all bands participating should be able to perform at any time during the day and be strong enough to make finals -- to truly be deserving of finals. Whether it's the top scoring band on Thursday who goes on at 7am or the 23rd overall placed band who goes at 12:30pm, judges should be able to figure out exactly what they're seeing and judging. I am sick and tired of the training wheels approach that BOA has relied upon for years and am cautiously optimistic that they will stop discriminating against bands based on their Grade 10-12 school enrollment size. To be clear, semifinals has been a great thing for BOA, but the Top 30+class qualifiers should also represent a true competition. Not language that says "more likely to make finals" based on previous, not current, performances. I hope they completely revamp the semifinals round. Take at least the Top 4 in each class and make it a real competition. Advance the top two in each class to the actual finals round. Determine all class champions in the actual finals round. Wow, that's far more positively life changing than weird class exhibition performances that segregate and.. don't celebrate.. excellence across the 'subjective' medium. Judging is like... really hard. I mean, as a Class A fan myself, I like some parts of what you're proposing... but your underlying belief that judges should be able to accurately and completely remember 30 bands for purposes of realistic comparison without any stacking as an aid is just unrealistic. I think your expectations border on the superhuman.
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Post by bandirectorman on Jun 1, 2023 13:45:11 GMT -6
Their way of organizing semifinals was outdated and wrong, if it is truly a competition. If it's truly a competition, all bands participating should be able to perform at any time during the day and be strong enough to make finals -- to truly be deserving of finals. Whether it's the top scoring band on Thursday who goes on at 7am or the 23rd overall placed band who goes at 12:30pm, judges should be able to figure out exactly what they're seeing and judging. I am sick and tired of the training wheels approach that BOA has relied upon for years and am cautiously optimistic that they will stop discriminating against bands based on their Grade 10-12 school enrollment size. To be clear, semifinals has been a great thing for BOA, but the Top 30+class qualifiers should also represent a true competition. Not language that says "more likely to make finals" based on previous, not current, performances. I hope they completely revamp the semifinals round. Take at least the Top 4 in each class and make it a real competition. Advance the top two in each class to the actual finals round. Determine all class champions in the actual finals round. Wow, that's far more positively life changing than weird class exhibition performances that segregate and.. don't celebrate.. excellence across the 'subjective' medium. Judging is like... really hard. I mean, as a Class A fan myself, I like some parts of what you're proposing... but your underlying belief that judges should be able to accurately and completely remember 30 bands for purposes of realistic comparison without any stacking as an aid is just unrealistic. I think your expectations border on the superhuman. Wait, let me try to understand your rationale... So, by your rationale, judging is hard, therefore let's slack off for the other bands based on what another panel thought? They judge the same groups all day long. Either the music is played well or it isn't. The marching is good or it isn't. The design is complex or it isn't. No, not buying this as far as superhuman. Yes, it's a marathon, but then hire more judges and cancel out the high and low marks.
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Post by yayband914 on Jun 1, 2023 16:32:57 GMT -6
Judging is like... really hard. I mean, as a Class A fan myself, I like some parts of what you're proposing... but your underlying belief that judges should be able to accurately and completely remember 30 bands for purposes of realistic comparison without any stacking as an aid is just unrealistic. I think your expectations border on the superhuman. Wait, let me try to understand your rationale... So, by your rationale, judging is hard, therefore let's slack off for the other bands based on what another panel thought? They judge the same groups all day long. Either the music is played well or it isn't. The marching is good or it isn't. The design is complex or it isn't. No, not buying this as far as superhuman. Yes, it's a marathon, but then hire more judges and cancel out the high and low marks. Your rationale is very black and white and does not take into account any slight nuances that inevitably occur between groups in a contest of 100+ bands with 20-30 in each class where each judge is adjudicating around 50 bands randomly spread out in each class per the schedule over the course of two days. It’s not as straightforward as “either it’s good or it isn’t.” In a contest as sprawling and massive as Grand Nationals, it’s more like “which band in this particular caption deserves a 17.00 and which one deserves a 17.10?” That is not easy to keep track of any way you slice it and I don’t think it’s fair or even grounded in reality to think otherwise. I’d be willing to bet you never once adjudicated, and if you have, it probably wasn’t at a large national contest.
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Post by philodemus on Jun 1, 2023 18:59:56 GMT -6
Judging is like... really hard. I mean, as a Class A fan myself, I like some parts of what you're proposing... but your underlying belief that judges should be able to accurately and completely remember 30 bands for purposes of realistic comparison without any stacking as an aid is just unrealistic. I think your expectations border on the superhuman. Wait, let me try to understand your rationale... So, by your rationale, judging is hard, therefore let's slack off for the other bands based on what another panel thought? They judge the same groups all day long. Either the music is played well or it isn't. The marching is good or it isn't. The design is complex or it isn't. No, not buying this as far as superhuman. Yes, it's a marathon, but then hire more judges and cancel out the high and low marks. Yayband914 gave a pretty solid answer that I co-sign. Only wanted to emphasize how silly, “It’s good or it ain’t” is at Grand Nationals. One of my fave shows of every year is to watch all (yes, every last one) of the Semifinalists, and literally every single one is “good”… the question is “how good?” Separating “great” from “pretty great” from “Wow!” Is a tough gig.
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Post by vidal28rdg on Jun 1, 2023 22:35:13 GMT -6
Wait, let me try to understand your rationale... So, by your rationale, judging is hard, therefore let's slack off for the other bands based on what another panel thought? They judge the same groups all day long. Either the music is played well or it isn't. The marching is good or it isn't. The design is complex or it isn't. No, not buying this as far as superhuman. Yes, it's a marathon, but then hire more judges and cancel out the high and low marks. Your rationale is very black and white and does not take into account any slight nuances that inevitably occur between groups in a contest of 100+ bands with 20-30 in each class where each judge is adjudicating around 50 bands randomly spread out in each class per the schedule over the course of two days. It’s not as straightforward as “either it’s good or it isn’t.” In a contest as sprawling and massive as Grand Nationals, it’s more like “which band in this particular caption deserves a 17.00 and which one deserves a 17.10?” That is not easy to keep track of any way you slice it and I don’t think it’s fair or even grounded in reality to think otherwise. I’d be willing to bet you never once adjudicated, and if you have, it probably wasn’t at a large national contest. The way the numbers crunch together with so many attendees at large contests like the SR’s and Grand Nats, no doubt makes a thankless job even harder. I think sometimes just how wide the rankings for bands in subcaptions are, say a band gets a 12th in MPI but gets 34th in MPE can often spark some confusion at best and some outcry and derision at worst, I can’t recall exactly if what I’m saying is always true but you don’t often get as widespread a judging discrepancy of a group in the GE captions(shows how much that caption can determine placement alone)as opposed to how wildly varying performance caption scores can be among bands. Some people say that with the two panels at work, some bands get doomed by judges in one panel maybe having some restrained scores among a group of bands in the bubble that could’ve made a difference, just thinking of hypotheticals here. In an effort to understand the thought and adjudicating processes, it is important to have good faith discussions as to why some of these outcomes happen.
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