DCI Uniform Trends

[OldSchoolTrumpet]

Just curious, but am I the only one who just can't get behind the costuming trend in DCI? I know I'm an old curmudgeonly guy, but I really lament the loss of corps identity that came with actual uniforms. And I blame the Bluecoats. 

I'll be quiet now.

[madisonbandman1]

I like to call crown's uniforms the "Backpack" uniform in light of our district going with a clear backpack uniform this past school year. I actually somewhat like Bloo's uniforms this year tbh. Love their show too.

[LeanderMomma]

I hear ya OldSchoolTrumpet. Call me an old curmudgeon as well, but I hate the new uniform trend for the most part. Occasionally I think they do a good job with the contemporary uniforms, but I find most of them rather silly looking. I do, however, like the Bluecoats uniforms this year. Can you actually call it that anymore though? They are more like costumes these days. I guess we better get used to it. I don’t see things changing anytime soon.

[josephbandfan]

I think I prefer uniforms that have slight alterations made to fit the theme. But at the end of the day, I will still enjoy the show even if I don't like their costumes.

I'm still on the fence about Bloo's uniforms this year but really interesting show. I also saw SCV's uniforms on instagram and I'm kind of digging it, just waiting to see how it looks on the field.

[Marching Observer]

I had actually made a poll about this the other day regarding this question. Respond how you see fit.

Can a Drum Corps win a Championship without 'gimmicky' uniforms today?

A - Yes

B - No

C - Only the Blue Devils

I answered C.

I generally don't mind uniforms if they are themed well with a show but the fact everyone tries to do it now dilutes the effect and in most cases, I don't believe that it actually helps anymore. They just do it while putting in a half assed effort into it. That's just my opinion. What are yours?

[OldSchoolTrumpet]

I dislike it on a few levels, some irrational and some just reflecting my personal taste. As I said in the original post, to me it represents a loss of identity. I'm well aware that it has been 30 years since the Blue Stars were really just kids from around the Lacrosse WI area and today's kids are from all over the country, some working their way through lower corps until they can land a spot with BD, Crown, SCV...whoever. But, with traditional uniforms they still felt like distinct corps with tradition, history, continuity. Today they just seem like this year's collection of hired (well, sort of) guns who happen to be performing under a particular name. I look at SCV, but I don't see SVC. And I irrationally dislike that.

On the personal side, I simply don't care for most of the specific looks (I won't call out any particular corps...cough, Blue Stars) especially the lack of traditional shako, aussie, helmet, or whatever lid a corps used to wear. Some of these uniforms I see and I think, "no way could I wear that." To me it seems as if the WGI design crowd has taken over. I'm not digging it.

But, I'm old as dirt so who cares what I think? The shows are a little too WGI/Danceathon sometimes, but I do find a lot to like in particular shows each year. Some others, maybe not so much. I can't even begin to imagine what the norm will be 20 years from now.

[Allohak]

I give it until 2022, at which point there will be no "uniforms" at the top level of the activity. Each individual performer will have a costume specific to their particular role in the show.

Star of Indiana moving inside to Brass Theater was just 30 years ahead of the curve.

[OldSchoolTrumpet]

Jun 24, 2019 12:28:46 GMT -6 Allohak said:

I give it until 2022, at which point there will be no "uniforms" at the top level of the activity. Each individual performer will have a costume specific to their particular role in the show.

Star of Indiana moving inside to Brass Theater was just 30 years ahead of the curve.
------------------------------

You know, that actually seems likely. Maybe not by 2022, but I could easily see that being the future. The other question...which of course gets argued on other forums with lots of anger and resentment..is when does the name Drum Corps cease to make sense? It has certainly evolved into something that bears little resemblance to what came before it. The last three years have seen some rapid change. How far will it go? 

[Subito Fortissimo]

Jun 24, 2019 10:32:03 GMT -6 OldSchoolTrumpet said:

I dislike it on a few levels, some irrational and some just reflecting my personal taste. As I said in the original post, to me it represents a loss of identity. I'm well aware that it has been 30 years since the Blue Stars were really just kids from around the Lacrosse WI area and today's kids are from all over the country, some working their way through lower corps until they can land a spot with BD, Crown, SCV...whoever. But, with traditional uniforms they still felt like distinct corps with tradition, history, continuity. Today they just seem like this year's collection of hired (well, sort of) guns who happen to be performing under a particular name. I look at SCV, but I don't see SVC. And I irrationally dislike that.

On the personal side, I simply don't care for most of the specific looks (I won't call out any particular corps...cough, Blue Stars) especially the lack of traditional shako, aussie, helmet, or whatever lid a corps used to wear. Some of these uniforms I see and I think, "no way could I wear that." To me it seems as if the WGI design crowd has taken over. I'm not digging it.

But, I'm old as dirt so who cares what I think? The shows are a little too WGI/Danceathon sometimes, but I do find a lot to like in particular shows each year. Some others, maybe not so much. I can't even begin to imagine what the norm will be 20 years from now.

As a somewhat, I assume, younger fan (early 30's) I agree with your sentiment about corps identity. I think if you took someone who was a fan but hadn't seen anything related to drum corps in the last five years and they can't look at a corps and tell who it is, that's a problem. How many World Class groups this year are immediately recognizable at first glance? Two or three, maybe?? I have an issue with that. So much of the historical corps identity is in the look of the corps and the name. The membership would change every year but it was still the same drum corps. But if the recognizable look ceases to exist then does the name even matter anymore? 

Jun 24, 2019 12:28:46 GMT -6 Allohak said:

I give it until 2022, at which point there will be no "uniforms" at the top level of the activity. Each individual performer will have a costume specific to their particular role in the show.

Star of Indiana moving inside to Brass Theater was just 30 years ahead of the curve.

This is already happening. Last year and this year every member of the Bluecoats had a unique costume. Last year this actually caused issues for high school bands that had ordered new uniforms from Stanbury. The time needed to individually tailor unique uniforms for each individual member is a lot greater than a run of an identical uniform with progressive sizing and a general idea of whats needed. There was a locally competitive band in my area that fundraised for two years to order new uniforms, ordered them in December 2017 and didn't receive them until a week AFTER the end of their 2018 season. They didn't have enough of their old uniforms that were usable and had to spend the season marching in show tee's and khakis. 

[josephbandfan]

My brother does not keep up with dci as much and always has to ask me who I am watching 

[Shroom]

Honestly I think Cavies (2016-2018) had the best approach to modern uniforms. The altered jacket with a flex shirt underneath gave their shows a lot of personality imo, even if the flex shirts looked kind of silly. I absolutely hate uniforms/costumes this year and I think we've hit just about as low as we can go in those terms.

I will say from a younger perspective though that I don't agree with too much of the hate on "costumes", especially a lot of the more antiquated arguments. Like as silly as something like Bloo 2016 looks, I think to most people who weren't brought up with the classic uniforms it isn't too jarring. I mean the marching arts are a weird activity, and if you're not used to it the difference in weirdness between a flex suit and a mock, vaguely flamboyant 19th century military uniform is pretty nominal.

I will also say that I think when costumes are done right, that they usually blow most classic uniforms out of the water and give a year much more character than they would have without, but at the same time often also have the potential to kill a show. I will die the hill defending Bloo's new costumes every year, as while they always look absolutely insane they most definitely compliment the show and make it way more memorable compared to a lot of their older shows. Like I said though uniforms and costumes suck this year. SCV and BAC are probably the worst offenders and have been since the switch to modern unis became more prominent, and I really hope they figure it out soon since both used to have some of the coolest and most iconic uniforms.

*Also, Cadet's old uniforms were just ugly and I'm happy they're gone.

[elsie]

I think that we overstate this idea of “corps identity”… it’s not magically going away because uniforms. It’s just not necessary today I don’t think. Corps keep their identity through their traditions and their show designs not through their uniform. It’s not necessary today and I don’t think it ever was to be able to point to a corp and definitively say “That’s Cavies!” Or “That’s SCV!” In fact I don’t think it ever was. I think we get lost in the nostalgia that this was the way things used to be but I don’t think it ever was or is currently necessary. Corps have their identity through their traditional music pieces through their history not through uniform.

Gimmicky uniforms are great for the audience and immersion. It’s not viable to have the same uniform every season anymore except for cost reasons. We don’t realize it but those same uniforms every season we’re extremely limiting and now the times have changed and it’s time we embrace it despite the nostalgia we feel for these Cavalier style traditional uniforms.

[philodemus]

To me, the best argument in favor of the old-school uniforms is the added height--and hence visual presence--that a performer gains from a shako, or to some extent from an Aussie. However, I think you get a lot of that visual presence back from increased mobility the performer enjoys without a large hat on their head.

I do wonder about identity and character, though... DO corps still have identities the way they once did? For instance, when I was marching in the '90s every corps had a pretty distinct rep--like a separate culture and approach. Troopers were the hardest of the hard core, oldest of the old school, whereas the Cavaliers were literally cavalier, delighting in blowing off the old school rules of decorum. Cadets were clean cut, while Devils were deliberately scruffy, Vanguard was the epitome of class, BAC would fight you for looking at them funny... And on and on.

My suspicion, though, is that those kinds of 'micro-cultures' were produced by the near total isolation of going on tour before cell phones and social media. Each corps was it's own universe for three months.

But I'd be happy to be wrong. Do corps still have those sorts of identities and characters?

[LeanderMomma]

Jun 24, 2019 12:28:46 GMT -6 Allohak said:

I give it until 2022, at which point there will be no "uniforms" at the top level of the activity. Each individual performer will have a costume specific to their particular role in the show.

Star of Indiana moving inside to Brass Theater was just 30 years ahead of the curve.

You were pretty spot on.

[josephbandfan]

Jul 9, 2022 9:27:05 GMT -6 philodemus said:

To me, the best argument in favor of the old-school uniforms is the added height--and hence visual presence--that a performer gains from a shako, or to some extent from an Aussie. However, I think you get a lot of that visual presence back from increased mobility the performer enjoys without a large hat on their head.

I do wonder about identity and character, though... DO corps still have identities the way they once did? For instance, when I was marching in the '90s every corps had a pretty distinct rep--like a separate culture and approach. Troopers were the hardest of the hard core, oldest of the old school, whereas the Cavaliers were literally cavalier, delighting in blowing off the old school rules of decorum. Cadets were clean cut, while Devils were deliberately scruffy, Vanguard was the epitome of class, BAC would fight you for looking at them funny... And on and on.

My suspicion, though, is that those kinds of 'micro-cultures' were produced by the near total isolation of going on tour before cell phones and social media. Each corps was it's own universe for three months.

But I'd be happy to be wrong. Do corps still have those sorts of identities and characters?

If every corps were wearing the same uniform, I'd personally feel very confident about being able to identify many of them accurately. Maybe not as distinct as in the past but maybe I like that. I do love/miss traditional uniforms but something I realized this season was that I didn't even bat an eye to any of the costumes that I saw. I guess I've gotten used to it and they do add to the visual identity to the show itself rather than as a corp. 

[boahistorybuff]

My two cents worth...

Following World War II (and actually to some degree the period between the two World Wars) the biggest organizations which hosted organized drum corps competitions were the American Legion and the VFW (and in Canada their counterparts). These groups had a very stringent set of rules that the corps who competed in their contests had to follow. Drum Corps were after all born from the military and these organizations prided themselves in the military roots of drum corps. From my understanding, Drum Corps International was founded in 1972 as an organization where the member corps could govern themselves and establish the rules/regulations that would allow more growth in the activity, particularly allowing for more musical and visual innovation. Canadian corps (also feeling stifled) were also a part of this new organization (hence the International). During the first several years of DCI, the American Legion and VFW still hosted many competitions, including national championships. So at a lot of corps competed in both the DCI and the American Legion/VFR circuits. So, while there were new innovations that emerged in the 1970s in DCI, the activity still remained close to a military style as many of the corps were still building shows that would be competitive in American Legion and VFW contests. By the 1980s, DCI really took over as the sole competitive program for Drum Corps. The end result has been 40+ years of continual evolution in the look and feel of a DCI show. The innovations in Winter Guard from the late 1970s through the mid 1980s was incredible. The innovations that first emerged in WGI eventually trickled into Drum Corps. That trend continues to this day. We also can not underestimate the influence that brass theater and Blast! (born from Star of Indiana in the 1990s) has had on DCI over the last 30 years. Since high school bands began adopting corps style programs in the 1970s and 1980s, their look and feel have evolved closely with DCI. Obviously, those that work/design for drum corps also do a lot of work with high school bands. The new attire (artistic costumes is what I call them), first appeared in the guard in the 1980s and has now obviously trickled into the rest of the corps/band. With all the visual things the corps (and bands) are doing now, they obviously need attire that allow for ease of movement, and I am sure the standard military style uniforms of the past just won't work with the types of things corps are doing visually these days.

I encourage you all to look at videos of drum corps shows year by years going back into the 1960s (granted there are limited videos of this era online) and continuing into today. You will see a steady evolution from military style show to that of a Broadway style show.

[dbalash]

Jul 9, 2022 7:27:45 GMT -6 elsie said:

Gimmicky uniforms are great for the audience and immersion. It’s not viable to have the same uniform every season anymore except for cost reasons.

None of the top corps pay for uniforms (or for that matter, instruments).

[paddy]

Jul 11, 2022 7:12:23 GMT -6 dbalash said:

Jul 9, 2022 7:27:45 GMT -6 elsie said:

Gimmicky uniforms are great for the audience and immersion. It’s not viable to have the same uniform every season anymore except for cost reasons.

None of the top corps pay for uniforms (or for that matter, instruments).

They sure aren't shy about charging the members for them.

[elsie]

Jul 11, 2022 7:12:23 GMT -6 dbalash said:

Jul 9, 2022 7:27:45 GMT -6 elsie said:

Gimmicky uniforms are great for the audience and immersion. It’s not viable to have the same uniform every season anymore except for cost reasons.

None of the top corps pay for uniforms (or for that matter, instruments).

That was not the point of my post

[rickofavon]

I grew up with the militaristic look. There’s just something about that look with a marching band that I love. It doesn’t clash with my understanding or appreciation of theme at the boa level so why would it here, ya know?

In my school of thought, that’s what the guard uniform was functionally for, to help convey theme(s). At most a traditional uniform with insert ability.

Everything from a logistics standpoint with how it is done now I think just makes sense organizationally and that’s undeniable. You get another input parameter into your show by costuming over uniforming. These things have to be cheaper to launder, store and care for. The maneuverability your ensemble gains is great. The visual crispness. The feel of the material for the performer. I get it. It’s undeniable.

It’ll never go back. We can only reflect.

I could only hope that a group turns this costume approach on its head and into something that resembles that feel without all the modern drippings. Someone mentioned cavaliers and that’s close but leaning more traditional.

[checkandclose]

I almost wonder if part of why the costuming trends are rising is also due to the restrictions brought by traditional uniforms. They were not designed with the concept of complex and flexible choreography in mind, and that is the exact kind of visual packages all corps bring to the field these days. The material used to make them isn't stretchy and can make it difficult to bend knees/elbows, and isn't made to be breathable for the amount of physical exertion that comes with drum corps

Costumes are much more breathable, making it easier to do complex choreo, and also withstand the increasingly hot temperatures that have plagued recent summers

[boahistorybuff]

Jul 11, 2023 23:07:41 GMT -6 checkandclose said:

I almost wonder if part of why the costuming trends are rising is also due to the restrictions brought by traditional uniforms. They were not designed with the concept of complex and flexible choreography in mind, and that is the exact kind of visual packages all corps bring to the field these days. The material used to make them isn't stretchy and can make it difficult to bend knees/elbows, and isn't made to be breathable for the amount of physical exertion that comes with drum corps

Costumes are much more breathable, making it easier to do complex choreo, and also withstand the increasingly hot temperatures that have plagued recent summers

I am sure this is a big part of it. That is one of the reasons the color guard dropped the military attire in the 1980s. Also, the corps and marching bands have strayed quite far from their military roots. You would never see a military regiment move they way corps do now. Back in the old days, even during a show, corps and marching bands retained a lot of military style during their performances. It would seem a bit of a mitch match for a corps to wear the military uniform and do the kinds of things they are doing on the field, even if the uniforms were made from more flexible material. Don't get me wrong, I do miss the old look.

[bandirectorman]

Tim Hinton recently made a vigorous defense of the activity, claiming that deep down it is the same experience and therefore no one should be concerned about all of the changes to feminize the activity, I believe as some have pointed out on other forums.  Claiming that the kids still take 'cold showers' and eat on the road, so that makes the current embarrassing trends totally worth it. It seems weak to me. 

DCI still has a place at the top of the activity, but it's far from being trendsetting, in my opinion. BLAST! was a troubling predecessor to this. People celebrated it at the time.. but you wouldn't catch me dead doing that on a stage. It was so weird - Good musicians for sure, but what they were being asked to do? No thanks.

None of the young adults participating in the activity are responsible for the decline in .. oh so many areas.. but they have to put up with it. Hopefully their experience is enriching in some way, but I don't for one second believe that simply 'old' people who 'cling' to how things were done in the past are wrong here. There's been a steep drop-off for some time now.

[paddy]

Well that escalated quickly…

[marimba11]

I mean, it is pretty similar… apart from uniforms and show design. 🤷‍♂️ Still sleeping in buses, sleeping in gyms… rehearsing in the heat… Idk what “feminize” means in this context. Feminize vs. masculine in what context… very broad

[Subito Fortissimo]

[OldSchoolTrumpet]

Jul 19, 2023 19:57:02 GMT -6 marimba11 said:

I mean, it is pretty similar… apart from uniforms and show design. 🤷‍♂️ Still sleeping in buses, sleeping in gyms… rehearsing in the heat… Idk what “feminize” means in this context. Feminize vs. masculine in what context… very broad

I'm not sure what he means either, but then I didn't hear the comments referenced. One would have to admit that the costuming itself certainly has a more feminine look, generally speaking. But how that translates to "feminizing the activity" I'm not sure. Seems a bit of a leap. I think it's not so much an attempt to "feminize" the activity so much as that it's being heavily influenced by WGI, and shows (and costumes) today feel more like an outdoor winter guard show than what I remember as drum and bugle corps. But I'm sure the experience of traveling. rehearsing, performing is pretty much the same as "my day."

BD before:



BD More Recently:

[philodemus]

This thread inspires so many thoughts, but here’s a small observation just for the moment:

In terms of member experience, I’m pretty sure the biggest difference between my day, and now has nothing to do with the uniforms, or the electronics, or even the B-flat instruments.

It’s the phones. 100% the phones.

Going on tour in the 1990s was like entering an altered state of reality. I spoke with my family back home maybe once a week, if we could find a payphone, and I never spoke to my home friends until I got back three months later and 35 pounds lighter. It created this whole sense of “the normal rules do not apply here.” People tried on new personas, did some things they never would at home. A corps mate of mine explained it nicely one day by saying, “None of this is real.” It really felt that way.

But now? The rest of the world is waiting on your phone at every break and bus ride. Talk to your Mom… or alert social media that you just saw some hazing.

I’m not saying this good or bad… I suspect it’s both… but man, it’s different.

[paddy]

Jul 20, 2023 17:03:52 GMT -6 philodemus said:

This thread inspires so many thoughts, but here’s a small observation just for the moment:

In terms of member experience, I’m pretty sure the biggest difference between my day, and now has nothing to do with the uniforms, or the electronics, or even the B-flat instruments.

It’s the phones. 100% the phones.

Going on tour in the 1990s was like entering an altered state of reality. I spoke with my family back home maybe once a week, if we could find a payphone, and I never spoke to my home friends until I got back three months later and 35 pounds lighter. It created this whole sense of “the normal rules do not apply here.” People tried on new personas, did some things they never would at home. A corps mate of mine explained it nicely one day by saying, “None of this is real.” It really felt that way.

But now? The rest of the world is waiting on your phone at every break and bus ride. Talk to your Mom… or alert social media that you just saw some hazing.

I’m not saying this good or bad… I suspect it’s both… but man, it’s different.

Our oldest is currently on tour and we have a good friend who was in tour in the mid 90s. He has made the same point about this being a huge difference between the experiences. He talks about carrying a few hundred dollars in calling cards and waiting 20-30 minutes to use the phone.

Our oldest has marched with 2 different corps and in both parent meetings the corps directors made it a point to talk about letting your kid “go on tour”. They have laid out the positive things that come from being embedded with your section and corps. Sharing the “us against the world” grind that few people have an opportunity to experience. It has been an incredible experience for our kid.

We have consciously tried to limit our texting to evening meal breaks and post show bus rides. We like to text about the show results. We also limit our FaceTime calls to free days. It can be hard at times, but we know that this is really a short window of opportunity and they should embrace it.

Frankly, more parents should heed this advice when sending their kid to college or out in the world as well.

[Subito Fortissimo]

One good newer modern technology is being able to stream shows through the season, (despite how mediocre the quality is at times...) It definitely changes the fan experience where BITD you might hear rumors about how a corps was doing and get little bits of info on what corps was doing what show from things like Drum Corps World. Then you could catch some of the shows live if there was one in your area. Beyond that the best you could hope for was watching finals on PBS unless you were able to attend in person.

Now with streaming as well as practice and lot videos all over the internet we can watch online all season long and see how the shows develop and change from day 1 to finals night.

I bet drum corps parents BITD would have thought it would be great to be able to sit down in front of the TV and watch their kid performing live from halfway across the country and then text them after the show with thoughts on the performance and changes to the show etc.