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Post by kdivine on Dec 11, 2023 19:30:22 GMT -6
I
am putting this topic here because it involves all three yearly phases of marching arts competition.
I am fearing that DCI will need to do some major overhaul to its business model within the next 5 years or there will begin to be a cascade failure of groups able and available to compete. Serious corporate sponsorship needs to be courted because the model $5-6K per each to sleep on gym floors seems like it has seen better days.
BoA just seems like it needs more nationals representation from both Texas and just larger swaths of the country overall.
For most schools, WGI competition might make more sense though, with smaller groups and lower production costs.
What do you think of the future viability of the three organizations?
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Post by es203 on Dec 11, 2023 20:30:41 GMT -6
Unfortunately DCI is so niche that getting large corporate sponsorships is difficult, and when they do happen it doesn't work out well for the sponsor. I remember reading something about how terrible it was financially for ESPN to broadcast finals, the viewership was just too low. Tuition is still going up, I know of a top 4 corps that is having a $600 tuition increase. It seems a regional touring model is the only solution, even if it's not a great one. Having marched world class this summer the experience was incredible, and every bit worth the 5 grand I had to dole out. It breaks my heart to think that soon, kids might not be able to have that experience. Hopefully this new CEO can turn things around.
BOA obviously isn't the same as DCI but of the three organizations it's certainly in the best shape financially. Every year more shows are added and there's more national representation, obviously Texas has like 10 shows but there are plenty of shows in other areas of the country that are in high demand every year. You wouldn't expect it but St. George has been at capacity for the last 5ish years, the southeast has been getting A LOT of attention especially recently (6 regionals this year with 3 in Tennessee) and honestly, there aren't that many more places they can expand to. And back to the Texas thing, you go where the demand is. Why would BOA have shows in Wyoming where there aren't more than 10 competitive programs in the state? Again, there aren't many more places they can expand to. I would love to see more BOA in the northeast and northwest and California and all these places, but those shows have been tried in the past and haven't worked out well.
WGI I have zero experience with so I can't speak on that lol
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Post by boahistorybuff on Dec 16, 2023 5:15:24 GMT -6
With DCI, even though I was a kid, a remember similar concerns in the late 1980s because there had been a massive drop in the number of corps across the country between the 1970s and the 1980s. I am sure the increasing cost of production and travel was a big factor. It seems like DCI was really hit hard by the pandemic. Didn't operating bingo halls accounted for a lot of their revenue leading into the pandemic? The closure of those during the pandemic hurt and maybe going to a bingo hall has become a thing of the past. Do people younger than the Baby Boomer generation even frequent those?
BOA and WGI are still going strong and expanding. I don't see any issues with those two organizations going forward. However, I do worry about DCI.
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Post by kdivine on Dec 16, 2023 8:28:26 GMT -6
The closure of those during the pandemic hurt and maybe going to a bingo hall has become a thing of the past. Do people younger than the Baby Boomer generation even frequent those? I have lived in/near Hot Springs for 20 years and can't say as I have ever seen one, but then we have a full blown horse track and casino [Oaklawn] that will gladly take your money you don't otherwise have a use for. I do have FB friends up north [Fargo, Minneapolis areas] who will occasionally post photos from a bingo trip, but it seems like it it is more grannystalgia than anything on the regular. |
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Post by paddy on Dec 16, 2023 13:35:15 GMT -6
BOA and WGI are much more stable and secure due to the scholastic component of the organizations. They are also helped by the strength of their regional systems. Winning a regional in either is a respected accomplishment. You don’t have to travel to Indy or Dayton to have a successful season.
I think DCI could develop a regional model that increased the stature of discreet geographic tours with finals becoming more elite.
I do hope that MFA and WGI get over their beef about the Winds activity and not let it divide the 2 organizations.
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Post by phantomphan on Dec 24, 2023 9:11:46 GMT -6
BOA and WGI are much more stable and secure due to the scholastic component of the organizations. They are also helped by the strength of their regional systems. Winning a regional in either is a respected accomplishment. You don’t have to travel to Indy or Dayton to have a successful season. I think DCI could develop a regional model that increased the stature of discreet geographic tours with finals becoming more elite. I do hope that MFA and WGI get over their beef about the Winds activity and not let it divide the 2 organizations. Good morning, I certainly don't want to stir the pot because I am not "that guy" but, what is the point of contention between WGI and MFA regarding the Winds activity? I don't have a 'dog in the fight', and have nothing but great respect for both organizations... |
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Post by bandirectorman on Feb 20, 2024 13:37:24 GMT -6
BOA and WGI are much more stable and secure due to the scholastic component of the organizations. They are also helped by the strength of their regional systems. Winning a regional in either is a respected accomplishment. You don’t have to travel to Indy or Dayton to have a successful season. I think DCI could develop a regional model that increased the stature of discreet geographic tours with finals becoming more elite. I do hope that MFA and WGI get over their beef about the Winds activity and not let it divide the 2 organizations. There is nothing stopping MFA from developing a competing circuit similar to WGI Winds if they wanted to. I liken WGI Winds to the much-maligned (and rightfully so!) Blast! from the early 2000s. One of the most regressive ideas of its era, in my opinion. Since MFA does not involve themselves in anything over the winter, outside of one concert festival and possibly a Tournament of Roses appearance as a combined-group, no idea why they'd clash at all with WGI. MFA has taken several leaps backwards in terms of appreciation for actual music performance, so I would simply think that if they wanted to compete with a WGI product, they could.. and they would win over time. Maybe cut down on the regionals and save a little cash for something like that -- or actual judging training. Hmm. |
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Post by Allohak on Feb 21, 2024 5:51:38 GMT -6
BOA and WGI are much more stable and secure due to the scholastic component of the organizations. They are also helped by the strength of their regional systems. Winning a regional in either is a respected accomplishment. You don’t have to travel to Indy or Dayton to have a successful season. I think DCI could develop a regional model that increased the stature of discreet geographic tours with finals becoming more elite. I do hope that MFA and WGI get over their beef about the Winds activity and not let it divide the 2 organizations. There is nothing stopping MFA from developing a competing circuit similar to WGI Winds if they wanted to. I liken WGI Winds to the much-maligned (and rightfully so!) Blast! from the early 2000s. One of the most regressive ideas of its era, in my opinion. Since MFA does not involve themselves in anything over the winter, outside of one concert festival and possibly a Tournament of Roses appearance as a combined-group, no idea why they'd clash at all with WGI. MFA has taken several leaps backwards in terms of appreciation for actual music performance, so I would simply think that if they wanted to compete with a WGI product, they could.. and they would win over time. Maybe cut down on the regionals and save a little cash for something like that -- or actual judging training. Hmm. lol |
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Post by LeanderMomma on Feb 21, 2024 8:02:55 GMT -6
There is nothing stopping MFA from developing a competing circuit similar to WGI Winds if they wanted to. I liken WGI Winds to the much-maligned (and rightfully so!) Blast! from the early 2000s. One of the most regressive ideas of its era, in my opinion. Since MFA does not involve themselves in anything over the winter, outside of one concert festival and possibly a Tournament of Roses appearance as a combined-group, no idea why they'd clash at all with WGI. MFA has taken several leaps backwards in terms of appreciation for actual music performance, so I would simply think that if they wanted to compete with a WGI product, they could.. and they would win over time. Maybe cut down on the regionals and save a little cash for something like that -- or actual judging training. Hmm. lol My favorite part was when he said Blast! was a regressive idea. |
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Post by marimba11 on Feb 21, 2024 9:56:07 GMT -6
BOA and WGI are much more stable and secure due to the scholastic component of the organizations. They are also helped by the strength of their regional systems. Winning a regional in either is a respected accomplishment. You don’t have to travel to Indy or Dayton to have a successful season. I think DCI could develop a regional model that increased the stature of discreet geographic tours with finals becoming more elite. I do hope that MFA and WGI get over their beef about the Winds activity and not let it divide the 2 organizations. There is nothing stopping MFA from developing a competing circuit similar to WGI Winds if they wanted to. I liken WGI Winds to the much-maligned (and rightfully so!) Blast! from the early 2000s. One of the most regressive ideas of its era, in my opinion. Since MFA does not involve themselves in anything over the winter, outside of one concert festival and possibly a Tournament of Roses appearance as a combined-group, no idea why they'd clash at all with WGI. MFA has taken several leaps backwards in terms of appreciation for actual music performance, so I would simply think that if they wanted to compete with a WGI product, they could.. and they would win over time. Maybe cut down on the regionals and save a little cash for something like that -- or actual judging training. Hmm. I actually agree with you on the "winds" aspect. There is nothing stopping BOA from creating their own circuit to compete with WGI - although I don't think they would. I remember when WGI winds started about a decade ago there were a lot of naysayers (like Kevin Ford) really bashing it saying it would take time away from their concert program in the spring, solo and ensemble, ect. as that is a time when musicians are really created - which I do agree with for winds (not for percussion and guard though, I welcomed WGI percussion to keep my chops up in a way concert band def cannot do). So back then I really agreed with Kevin Ford, but now I've sort of changed my tune. Andrew Markworth from the very beginning really wanted to enforce the education aspect of it. Avon has done great with it, and it certainly hasn't affected their overall program adding this in for the relatively small number of students who want to do it. But, like anything as long as good teaching and performance fundamentals are enforced first, I'm fine with it. I do recall a director early on (say 2014/2015) in an interview (I don't remember who or of what group) where they literally said he was so proud that this group won and would be the first group to ever win such and such class at WGI winds championships and that's all he said - okay that made my head explode if all he was concerned about was winning. I can't speak to guard as much but that def is a much more common thread to care about winning, scores, and competitive attributes in WGI percussion than BOA - which I do think is a problem, but WGI is also the leader in design which I also like - so I am conflicted. But, going back to your point, I do think BOA could make the experience a bit more music education friendly and enforced just to balance out the WGI winds visual and design focus. Therefore, there is an opening if they wanted to compete with WGI, but I don't think they will with the current cultural leaders at the helm. Which is also fine. |
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Post by thewho on Feb 21, 2024 11:11:52 GMT -6
It's so incredibly dumb to imply BOA has pockets of money and controlling the activity like cabals (or whatever moronic implication is being made here. Jeez). Let's keep in mind that artistic side pageantry activity (very generally) is performed in an arena for a sport that dominates the American cultural fabric still.
As for as Winds go, I'm mildly surprised there hasn't been a stronger international push from WGI, as this is faaar more low-barrier friendly on the artistic side than DCI (sorry). However, I also think this is a bit too far of an ask on WGI's end of things as the organization (while in good standing) is still recovering from having their business plans scuttled by 2020 like most would. Going international is a big deal and I don't think WGI is in a place to be able to do so now nor in the near future.
Domestically, there just isn't an appetite at all. The rapid creative ethos of the pageantry arts began about 30 years ago with the proliferation of DCI corps and BOA bands* that we're still seeing the evolution of today. Winds doesn't have 1. the numbers*, 2. the minds, and 3. "cultural" factor to move forward to compete with BOA now. Regarding 2, the money designers chase are in DCI**, BOA, winter guard, and percussion. FWIW, though, the band directors of those programs are ultimately the key to a successful pageantary arts program and many are burnt out after the band season. Not to mention, those "many" would prefer to move onto concert band- tying into 3. Pageantry arts on the field has its current place at the moment because of either 1. historic precedence of sustained music education priorization for marching band/pageantry arts (IN, OK, OH) or 2. conscious external cultural influence of football (TX, which falls in 1 with UIL, but you can't really tell me football isn't a minimized factor in band programs). Winds is not going to overcome those factors working against it in the next 10 years, imo. I'm sure there'll be some growth in the near future as some band directors may pivot away from the football field, but we're in a heyday of pageantry arts on the field right now- that's a massive current to swim against.
I'm not going to say that I watch Winds often so I'm not the person to be asking for possibl leaders. But if anyone wants recommendations- I think Hartman at Avon is doing really cool stuff at the moment on a national stage. Mililani has been curiously pivoting to Winds and I don't think they've gotten kudos on the national stage beyond 2017 BOA. The Winds choreography influence on Westfield is what got them to state finals this past fall, imo. It's a shame Aimachi has decided to shutter their pageantry arts performances in WGI for the time being because being an example the Japanese influence of indoor activity was showcasing what Winds groups could do.
*Specifically with Star of Indiana 1993 in DCI that eventually transferred over to other corps in the late 90s before BOA began the deeply elaborate set-ups with PCEP 1999 (not to say there haven't any before, but that show really pushed those doors wide open).
**I'd argue there's even less money here in DCI, but a great design in DCI will shine on someone's portfolio.
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Post by marimba11 on Feb 21, 2024 11:27:35 GMT -6
Design is def what holds DCI back as they don't need great designs as they are only competing with 25 groups instead 100s in BOA and WGI. - however, an argument could be made that DCI doesn't really need to be at the forefront of design because people watch it for the sheer skill of the performers. I know MANY here would disagree, but outside of BD and Bluecoats designs are pretty rough and shallow. (but if coats have another hippie show this year I'm boycotting).
I do think possibly DCi would be more economically feasible if the shows were more produced and interesting to people, but I have no evidence of that. Infact, I thought Crown would really spiral down the ranks after 2017/18 but their performance captions have held them strong enough. Such as it is I suppose much to my predictions.
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Post by Allohak on Feb 21, 2024 16:28:29 GMT -6
Design is def what holds DCI back as they don't need great designs as they are only competing with 25 groups instead 100s in BOA and WGI. - however, an argument could be made that DCI doesn't really need to be at the forefront of design because people watch it for the sheer skill of the performers. I know MANY here would disagree, but outside of BD and Bluecoats designs are pretty rough and shallow. (but if coats have another hippie show this year I'm boycotting). I do think possibly DCi would be more economically feasible if the shows were more produced and interesting to people, but I have no evidence of that. Infact, I thought Crown would really spiral down the ranks after 2017/18 but their performance captions have held them strong enough. Such as it is I suppose much to my predictions. Liked anyway, but 100x for also tired of Bloo's recent design paradigm |
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Post by bandirectorman on Feb 21, 2024 16:57:43 GMT -6
My favorite part was when he said Blast! was a regressive idea. I thought it was a joke. I know there were some legit people running the thing, but it was regressive in so many ways. Good performers, but very sad to watch. |
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Post by philodemus on Feb 21, 2024 18:16:51 GMT -6
You keep using that word… I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Post by Allohak on Feb 21, 2024 19:23:04 GMT -6
My favorite part was when he said Blast! was a regressive idea. I thought it was a joke. I know there were some legit people running the thing, but it was regressive in so many ways. Good performers, but very sad to watch. lol |
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Post by Subito Fortissimo on Feb 21, 2024 21:14:31 GMT -6
There is nothing stopping MFA from developing a competing circuit similar to WGI Winds if they wanted to. I liken WGI Winds to the much-maligned (and rightfully so!) Blast! from the early 2000s. One of the most regressive ideas of its era, in my opinion. Since MFA does not involve themselves in anything over the winter, outside of one concert festival and possibly a Tournament of Roses appearance as a combined-group, no idea why they'd clash at all with WGI. MFA has taken several leaps backwards in terms of appreciation for actual music performance, so I would simply think that if they wanted to compete with a WGI product, they could.. and they would win over time. Maybe cut down on the regionals and save a little cash for something like that -- or actual judging training. Hmm. I actually agree with you on the "winds" aspect. There is nothing stopping BOA from creating their own circuit to compete with WGI - although I don't think they would. I remember when WGI winds started about a decade ago there were a lot of naysayers (like Kevin Ford) really bashing it saying it would take time away from their concert program in the spring, solo and ensemble, ect. as that is a time when musicians are really created - which I do agree with for winds (not for percussion and guard though, I welcomed WGI percussion to keep my chops up in a way concert band def cannot do). So back then I really agreed with Kevin Ford, but now I've sort of changed my tune. Andrew Markworth from the very beginning really wanted to enforce the education aspect of it. Avon has done great with it, and it certainly hasn't affected their overall program adding this in for the relatively small number of students who want to do it. But, like anything as long as good teaching and performance fundamentals are enforced first, I'm fine with it. I do recall a director early on (say 2014/2015) in an interview (I don't remember who or of what group) where they literally said he was so proud that this group won and would be the first group to ever win such and such class at WGI winds championships and that's all he said - okay that made my head explode if all he was concerned about was winning. I can't speak to guard as much but that def is a much more common thread to care about winning, scores, and competitive attributes in WGI percussion than BOA - which I do think is a problem, but WGI is also the leader in design which I also like - so I am conflicted. But, going back to your point, I do think BOA could make the experience a bit more music education friendly and enforced just to balance out the WGI winds visual and design focus. Therefore, there is an opening if they wanted to compete with WGI, but I don't think they will with the current cultural leaders at the helm. Which is also fine. I never really had much of an opinion either way on Indoor Winds until the program I work with decided to form a group. Now I completely disagree with the "takes away from concert band" angle. It would only do that if you're taking classroom time to work on the Indoor program. A program can do indoor winds and still have high level concert bands, jazz band, students who do Solo & Ensemble, chamber groups, students who audition for and participate in honor bands etc. I know that for a fact because I see it first hand. Ultimately when you have an indoor group those students are playing their instruments for hours more every week than they would without it. Very few of them would actually make up those hours with extra solitary practice time. So as long as you're teaching solid playing fundamentals all of those extra hours playing their instruments is going to pay off and make them better musicians. |
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Post by marimba11 on Feb 22, 2024 10:24:05 GMT -6
I actually agree with you on the "winds" aspect. There is nothing stopping BOA from creating their own circuit to compete with WGI - although I don't think they would. I remember when WGI winds started about a decade ago there were a lot of naysayers (like Kevin Ford) really bashing it saying it would take time away from their concert program in the spring, solo and ensemble, ect. as that is a time when musicians are really created - which I do agree with for winds (not for percussion and guard though, I welcomed WGI percussion to keep my chops up in a way concert band def cannot do). So back then I really agreed with Kevin Ford, but now I've sort of changed my tune. Andrew Markworth from the very beginning really wanted to enforce the education aspect of it. Avon has done great with it, and it certainly hasn't affected their overall program adding this in for the relatively small number of students who want to do it. But, like anything as long as good teaching and performance fundamentals are enforced first, I'm fine with it. I do recall a director early on (say 2014/2015) in an interview (I don't remember who or of what group) where they literally said he was so proud that this group won and would be the first group to ever win such and such class at WGI winds championships and that's all he said - okay that made my head explode if all he was concerned about was winning. I can't speak to guard as much but that def is a much more common thread to care about winning, scores, and competitive attributes in WGI percussion than BOA - which I do think is a problem, but WGI is also the leader in design which I also like - so I am conflicted. But, going back to your point, I do think BOA could make the experience a bit more music education friendly and enforced just to balance out the WGI winds visual and design focus. Therefore, there is an opening if they wanted to compete with WGI, but I don't think they will with the current cultural leaders at the helm. Which is also fine. I never really had much of an opinion either way on Indoor Winds until the program I work with decided to form a group. Now I completely disagree with the "takes away from concert band" angle. It would only do that if you're taking classroom time to work on the Indoor program. A program can do indoor winds and still have high level concert bands, jazz band, students who do Solo & Ensemble, chamber groups, students who audition for and participate in honor bands etc. I know that for a fact because I see it first hand. Ultimately when you have an indoor group those students are playing their instruments for hours more every week than they would without it. Very few of them would actually make up those hours with extra solitary practice time. So as long as you're teaching solid playing fundamentals all of those extra hours playing their instruments is going to pay off and make them better musicians. That is an excellent analysis and hearing you describe it in the practice of real life makes a lot of sense. |
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Post by kdivine on Apr 3, 2024 17:43:57 GMT -6
Cadets fold as of now.
The sad truth is, there's nobody poised to replace corps that disband.
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Post by boahistorybuff on Apr 4, 2024 4:01:33 GMT -6
Cadets fold as of now. The sad truth is, there's nobody poised to replace corps that disband. This is HUGE. One of the most successful and longest running corps in history. This and the recent financial struggles of SCV is certainly raising more questions about the viability of a drum corps traveling the country. |
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Post by weller22 on Apr 4, 2024 21:24:23 GMT -6
Cadets fold as of now. The sad truth is, there's nobody poised to replace corps that disband. This is HUGE. One of the most successful and longest running corps in history. This and the recent financial struggles of SCV is certainly raising more questions about the viability of a drum corps traveling the country. Yeah. On the other hand, The Colts have the stability to have a finalist level organization and the Colt Cadets. It's possible. Seems like The Cadets may be more a product of the toxic organization coming to a head. |
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Post by boahistorybuff on Apr 5, 2024 3:28:05 GMT -6
This is HUGE. One of the most successful and longest running corps in history. This and the recent financial struggles of SCV is certainly raising more questions about the viability of a drum corps traveling the country. Yeah. On the other hand, The Colts have the stability to have a finalist level organization and the Colt Cadets. It's possible. Seems like The Cadets may be more a product of the toxic organization coming to a head. Yes The Cadets folded for other reasons. I know there are several corps that are financially stable. However, we now have fewer active drum corps then at any other time in history. It is a little concerning. |
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Post by nategriffin on Apr 5, 2024 15:13:10 GMT -6
While I think BOA and WGI are thriving with so much participation and a constant increase in the quality we receive now, DCI is something Im honestly expecting to die in its current form, especially with the Cadets going bankrupt, and prices for each season increasing more and more while people keep making the same amount making it more difficult to recruit members, I know tons of people who want to do DCI, but the price being generally too expensive is almost always why they dont do it, and if one of the more high end Corps fell, whos to say more wont follow suit with the current model?
And this is more of a personal/people Im with, but IN MY OPINION, DCI has strayed really far from how it was in the early 2010s and before, and I frankly think shows now are way too over designed and reliant on choreography (which also in my opinion, takes away from the guard) and a lack of uniforms which defined many Corps identities and made it easier for people to connect to corps. The constantly changing uniforms (which I generally dont like post 2017) make it hard to feel connected to a corp and harder to want to commit when every year feels like a Hail Mary on the show design, and thats not mentioning how all of that is much harder to budget then consistent uniforms and putting priority on marching/playing. Now it seems like they are trying to tell a consistent, less interpretive story then in the past (you can interpret Spartacus any which way, as opposed to Coats ‘22, for example without being able to use a constant monologuing or really any text to give context that could lower scores, which can take away from the music and performance side if you are too busy trying to tell a story that at the end of the day, isnt what the kids prioritize in rehearsals other than putting on a show.
I think if DCI wants to stay affordable and viable going forward (IN MY OPINION) , they need to simply the designs, have consistent, more reusable uniforms, and probably shorten the seasons to lower the cost but with more packed competitions to incentivize more mass viewership rather then having like 6 corps compete, I am not peddling any of this as fact, but Im not exactly optimistic about the future of DCI, and if you disagree thats totally ok👍
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Post by ilikeguard on Apr 5, 2024 15:48:44 GMT -6
That’s cool, I think we’ll be fine and change is good 👍🏻
Maybe there’s less of a problem of tOo MuCh DaNcE and more of a problem with decades of things being shoved under the rug finally catching up to some big names and groups 🤷🏼♀️ complaining that the cocoon doesn’t look as pretty as the caterpillar is overlooking the eventual butterfly.
Band will be okay. It will be different, but it will be okay. I guess it’s a personal choice to gripe about things (I do it too) but there are a lot of really cool things happening in the marching arts right now that wouldn’t be happening without the activity evolving.
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Post by dbalash on Apr 6, 2024 0:00:03 GMT -6
The Cadets are bankrupt and gone solely for the following reasons: a lawsuit from an incident from 1982 that they reached a settlement on, people then opened their mouth on social media, bashing the victim. They then withdrew from settlement talks, and went ahead with the lawsuit. The Cadets parent organization couldn’t find a insurance carrier that would cover the liability, so they’re kaput.
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Post by nategriffin on Apr 6, 2024 19:38:19 GMT -6
That’s cool, I think we’ll be fine and change is good 👍🏻 Maybe there’s less of a problem of tOo MuCh DaNcE and more of a problem with decades of things being shoved under the rug finally catching up to some big names and groups 🤷🏼♀️ complaining that the cocoon doesn’t look as pretty as the caterpillar is overlooking the eventual butterfly. Band will be okay. It will be different, but it will be okay. I guess it’s a personal choice to gripe about things (I do it too) but there are a lot of really cool things happening in the marching arts right now that wouldn’t be happening without the activity evolving. Oh of course, and Im not saying its like the worst thing ever to happen to DCI like some of the oldheads do, but it is honestly the reason me and some others decide against it besides the money, the people I know love DCI for the playing (brass), and recently, the brass books feel like step backwards than what we had received in previous decades (either in its quality of writing, or difficulty, or sometimes both), and if Im paying double what it used to cost while at the same time playing less and just doing choreography, it just really doesnt make sense or bode confidence in doing DCI, but thats just my sample group and is inertially biased, which I can recognize |
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Post by rickyrosay on Apr 8, 2024 8:00:39 GMT -6
I think an interesting thing about Drum Corps (and this is speaking more to design and performance than anything else. Not so much the other things) is that for years it has been heralded as the "Professional Marching Band," or "Marching Music's Major League." Which in theory, is true. But, One thing that is also true is that high school bands all across the country are better. The quality of bands is possibly at an all time high! There are hornlines that legitimately play at what you could consider a drum corps level, there are percussion sections that have incredible hands, and guards that are spinning just as well if not better than some finalists corps. Not to mention design and production at the top BOA level that really are World Class. In every facet of the meaning. So if that is happening, OF COURSE drum corps has to be bigger, louder, flashier, etc. They HAVE to do something to stand out and prove that they are still the "top" of what we all have come to know and love. When in truth? If you just go year to year since like 2015/2016? I would probably take watching BOA finals over DCI finals. Or at least could make a compelling argument. Semi finals at Grand Nationals is the best show in the entire year of all the things marching arts. Period. 30-36 Bands and not a single snoozer. And that's before you get into the financial piece to all of this and pricing out a large part of the students who would even want to do it and boom! We're going to have a world where band directors want to hire tech staff with "Corp experience" and there are only going to be 10 active corps.
On another note, I do wonder why more groups don't try to take advantage of Indoor Winds? If you think about WGI, it essentially is what DCI was built on. Everyone in their individual regions and then they all descend upon Dayton for two weeks. I know it's not the way we've always done it, but like. That seems like a good way to build a base, less travel, keep a certain revenue stream (albeit not a ton, but it could be something). Heck, maybe corps and their staffs can have a guard, perc, and winds WGI group, like some of the schools that are competing in WGI now? I'm just spit balling. But it seems like there is a world where it might be able to still grow if just started through the winter into the summer. Instead of starting in the summer which is a much higher expense I would imagine.
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Post by paddy on Apr 8, 2024 10:21:08 GMT -6
I think an interesting thing about Drum Corps (and this is speaking more to design and performance than anything else. Not so much the other things) is that for years it has been heralded as the "Professional Marching Band," or "Marching Music's Major League." Which in theory, is true. But, One thing that is also true is that high school bands all across the country are better. The quality of bands is possibly at an all time high! There are hornlines that legitimately play at what you could consider a drum corps level, there are percussion sections that have incredible hands, and guards that are spinning just as well if not better than some finalists corps. Not to mention design and production at the top BOA level that really are World Class. In every facet of the meaning. So if that is happening, OF COURSE drum corps has to be bigger, louder, flashier, etc. They HAVE to do something to stand out and prove that they are still the "top" of what we all have come to know and love. When in truth? If you just go year to year since like 2015/2016? I would probably take watching BOA finals over DCI finals. Or at least could make a compelling argument. Semi finals at Grand Nationals is the best show in the entire year of all the things marching arts. Period. 30-36 Bands and not a single snoozer. And that's before you get into the financial piece to all of this and pricing out a large part of the students who would even want to do it and boom! We're going to have a world where band directors want to hire tech staff with "Corp experience" and there are only going to be 10 active corps. On another note, I do wonder why more groups don't try to take advantage of Indoor Winds? If you think about WGI, it essentially is what DCI was built on. Everyone in their individual regions and then they all descend upon Dayton for two weeks. I know it's not the way we've always done it, but like. That seems like a good way to build a base, less travel, keep a certain revenue stream (albeit not a ton, but it could be something). Heck, maybe corps and their staffs can have a guard, perc, and winds WGI group, like some of the schools that are competing in WGI now? I'm just spit balling. But it seems like there is a world where it might be able to still grow if just started through the winter into the summer. Instead of starting in the summer which is a much higher expense I would imagine. The biggest impediments to a full bore world of independent groups across WGI disciplines is availability of space and availability of members. Tough to pull together a group of students from various walks of life for practice from a large regional area and find a place to rehearse. My oldest, who marches DCI, can't participate in an Independent WGI group because of the demands on his time from school. DCI works because he can chuck it all for 3 months and hit the road for the summer. |
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Post by ohioguy2 on Apr 8, 2024 10:30:59 GMT -6
I think an interesting thing about Drum Corps (and this is speaking more to design and performance than anything else. Not so much the other things) is that for years it has been heralded as the "Professional Marching Band," or "Marching Music's Major League." Which in theory, is true. But, One thing that is also true is that high school bands all across the country are better. The quality of bands is possibly at an all time high! There are hornlines that legitimately play at what you could consider a drum corps level, there are percussion sections that have incredible hands, and guards that are spinning just as well if not better than some finalists corps. Not to mention design and production at the top BOA level that really are World Class. In every facet of the meaning. So if that is happening, OF COURSE drum corps has to be bigger, louder, flashier, etc. They HAVE to do something to stand out and prove that they are still the "top" of what we all have come to know and love. When in truth? If you just go year to year since like 2015/2016? I would probably take watching BOA finals over DCI finals. Or at least could make a compelling argument. Semi finals at Grand Nationals is the best show in the entire year of all the things marching arts. Period. 30-36 Bands and not a single snoozer. And that's before you get into the financial piece to all of this and pricing out a large part of the students who would even want to do it and boom! We're going to have a world where band directors want to hire tech staff with "Corp experience" and there are only going to be 10 active corps. On another note, I do wonder why more groups don't try to take advantage of Indoor Winds? If you think about WGI, it essentially is what DCI was built on. Everyone in their individual regions and then they all descend upon Dayton for two weeks. I know it's not the way we've always done it, but like. That seems like a good way to build a base, less travel, keep a certain revenue stream (albeit not a ton, but it could be something). Heck, maybe corps and their staffs can have a guard, perc, and winds WGI group, like some of the schools that are competing in WGI now? I'm just spit balling. But it seems like there is a world where it might be able to still grow if just started through the winter into the summer. Instead of starting in the summer which is a much higher expense I would imagine. The biggest impediments to a full bore world of independent groups across WGI disciplines is availability of space and availability of members. Tough to pull together a group of students from various walks of life for practice from a large regional area and find a place to rehearse. My oldest, who marches DCI, can't participate in an Independent WGI group because of the demands on his time from school. DCI works because he can chuck it all for 3 months and hit the road for the summer. However, there are a lot of people that are the exact opposite. They can’t afford to just put their lives on hold for three months at a time. A WGI model allows for them to still go to school, work a job, and still participate in a marching activity. |
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Post by paddy on Apr 8, 2024 11:46:59 GMT -6
The biggest impediments to a full bore world of independent groups across WGI disciplines is availability of space and availability of members. Tough to pull together a group of students from various walks of life for practice from a large regional area and find a place to rehearse. My oldest, who marches DCI, can't participate in an Independent WGI group because of the demands on his time from school. DCI works because he can chuck it all for 3 months and hit the road for the summer. However, there are a lot of people that are the exact opposite. They can’t afford to just put their lives on hold for three months at a time. A WGI model allows for them to still go to school, work a job, and still participate in a marching activity. I don't disagree, but it doesn't address the lack of practice space issue. And how many college kids can (should) carry a full academic load, and work, and practice/compete with a WGI group 12-16 hours/week? My DCI kid has a pretty packed schedule before adding on a WGI independent group. |
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