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Post by yayband914 on Jun 13, 2024 21:56:49 GMT -6
disabling comments for every post the second they are live on insta would be something i would consider. obviously students will still come here to complain but it’s still something. also protects their identity as most the time it seems like the trash talkers aren’t smart enough to make a burner account. no matter how annoying they are, imo, it’s important to protect their identity even if they don’t do it themselves.(also considering 90% of them are minors) It’s a drastically different demographic than what we have in the forums evidently. Thank. Goodness. |
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Post by hewhowaits on Jun 14, 2024 4:57:05 GMT -6
My opinion...do predictions for each show for both classes in prelims and finals and leave weekly rankings out. I personally don't think rankings are worth stirring up fights between high school students. I think "official rankings" based on mostly opinion just cause more trouble than we need in the activity. It's just band folks. Who here ever stated that there was anything "official" about the rankings? |
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Post by Allohak on Jun 14, 2024 9:34:23 GMT -6
Big full overall pre-, mid-, and post-season lists
Weekly smaller lists only highlighting groups who performed at major events (as has been defined on this site for many years) that week. Most if not all weeks this would include at least a few small-class groups
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Post by hewhowaits on Jun 14, 2024 10:42:20 GMT -6
Full rankings preseason, end of September, end of October, end of season?
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jun 14, 2024 16:11:39 GMT -6
Full rankings preseason, end of September, end of October, end of season? I like this idea. |
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Post by lostchoirguy on Jun 14, 2024 17:34:13 GMT -6
One thing I think would be cool is to allow those who are sending in votes to include one unranked band that they were impressed or surprised by that week. It could provide some bands who don't really have a chance at making the top 32 or even honorable mention to get some notice. We can list them in a separate section or add them to the honorable mention section.
I also think this might help with voting as I often feel like including bands that win regionals even if I don't think they are actually in the top 32.
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Post by yayband914 on Jun 14, 2024 17:35:20 GMT -6
One thing I think would be cool is to allow those who are sending in votes to include one unranked band that they were impressed or surprised by that week. It could provide some bands who don't really have a chance at making the top 32 or even honorable mention to get some notice. We can list them in a separate section or add them to the honorable mention section. I also think this might help with voting as I often feel like including bands that win regionals even if I don't think they are actually in the top 32. I like this. Very espirit de corps. |
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Post by hewhowaits on Jun 14, 2024 17:54:04 GMT -6
One thing I think would be cool is to allow those who are sending in votes to include one unranked band that they were impressed or surprised by that week. It could provide some bands who don't really have a chance at making the top 32 or even honorable mention to get some notice. We can list them in a separate section or add them to the honorable mention section. I also think this might help with voting as I often feel like including bands that win regionals even if I don't think they are actually in the top 32. The winners of regionals who otherwise aren't on anyone's radar often appear in the next 10 because multiple voters include them in their top 32+1 the week of that regional win on a regular basis. |
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Post by trumpet300 on Jun 14, 2024 18:02:05 GMT -6
My opinion...do predictions for each show for both classes in prelims and finals and leave weekly rankings out. I personally don't think rankings are worth stirring up fights between high school students. I think "official rankings" based on mostly opinion just cause more trouble than we need in the activity. It's just band folks. Who here ever stated that there was anything "official" about the rankings? Im not saying anyone specifically said that. I meant that students take them to heart like official rankings hence the quotation marks. |
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Post by lostchoirguy on Jun 15, 2024 10:51:08 GMT -6
One thing I think would be cool is to allow those who are sending in votes to include one unranked band that they were impressed or surprised by that week. It could provide some bands who don't really have a chance at making the top 32 or even honorable mention to get some notice. We can list them in a separate section or add them to the honorable mention section. I also think this might help with voting as I often feel like including bands that win regionals even if I don't think they are actually in the top 32. The winners of regionals who otherwise aren't on anyone's radar often appear in the next 10 because multiple voters include them in their top 32+1 the week of that regional win on a regular basis. I know. That's what my second paragraph is referencing. I usually would include them in my own rankings. |
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Post by srv1084 on Jun 15, 2024 12:00:51 GMT -6
One thing I think would be cool is to allow those who are sending in votes to include one unranked band that they were impressed or surprised by that week. It could provide some bands who don't really have a chance at making the top 32 or even honorable mention to get some notice. We can list them in a separate section or add them to the honorable mention section. I also think this might help with voting as I often feel like including bands that win regionals even if I don't think they are actually in the top 32. The winners of regionals who otherwise aren't on anyone's radar often appear in the next 10 because multiple voters include them in their top 32+1 the week of that regional win on a regular basis. I personally tried to avoid this if I didn't genuinely think that band represented a top 32 or "+1" ranking simply from winning a regional, though I understand the recognition element of folks including them. I often felt like including them would exclude a deserving band from the list. I like the idea of an honorable mention section for bands that stood out at certain events, but may otherwise not be top 32/next 10 based on actual ranking logic. It could help with keeping the integrity of a real top 32/next 10 while providing recognition for surprises or great performances. |
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Post by ilikeguard on Jun 16, 2024 15:54:38 GMT -6
The little band tribe says yes to an honorable mention vote!
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jun 17, 2024 14:44:08 GMT -6
The little band tribe says yes to an honorable mention vote! I like the idea very much as well! I was a little uncomfortable last year ranking bands in the top 32 just because they won a fairly non competitive BOA regional. In my mind, if they aren’t proficient enough to compare to the top 32 in the country, they ought not automatically get a spot the following week in the rankings. But this Honorable Mention idea totally makes sense! They absolutely deserve recognition the week following a win at a Regional! |
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Post by paddy on Jun 17, 2024 19:54:07 GMT -6
The problem is trying to make all bands fit into a paradigm set by bands with enormous resources and large member numbers.
There are absolutely bands that get more “bang for the buck” and “punch above their weight class” that should be considered among the top bands in the country when you consider the handicaps they have through no fault of their own.
There are times when big bands slip into the bottom third of the top 32 because they are big enough to play the game.
But I am admittedly a slut for small bands who are interesting and daring and fun.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jun 18, 2024 5:56:41 GMT -6
The problem is trying to make all bands fit into a paradigm set by bands with enormous resources and large member numbers. There are absolutely bands that get more “bang for the buck” and “punch above their weight class” that should be considered among the top bands in the country when you consider the handicaps they have through no fault of their own. There are times when big bands slip into the bottom third of the top 32 because they are big enough to play the game. But I am admittedly a slut for small bands who are interesting and daring and fun. which brings me back to my original point. Why are we ranking bands anyway? 😅😵💫 The top bands are always going to be the ones from large schools with large budgets. |
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jun 18, 2024 6:03:26 GMT -6
I wonder…..could we do a class ranking intermittently throughout the season. Or at the end of the season. Or just do a Top 10 Small Class at some point. IDK…just thinking.
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Post by paddy on Jun 18, 2024 6:55:48 GMT -6
The problem is trying to make all bands fit into a paradigm set by bands with enormous resources and large member numbers. There are absolutely bands that get more “bang for the buck” and “punch above their weight class” that should be considered among the top bands in the country when you consider the handicaps they have through no fault of their own. There are times when big bands slip into the bottom third of the top 32 because they are big enough to play the game. But I am admittedly a slut for small bands who are interesting and daring and fun. which brings me back to my original point. Why are we ranking bands anyway? 😅😵💫 The top bands are always going to be the ones from large schools with large budgets. Why are we ranking bands? - Because like most youth activities, adults find ways to screw it up. To the bolded part - But I will argue that they aren't always the top bands (in a ranking scenario) if you set the rubric correctly. Using Indiana (since that is my sweet spot) there are a number of small school bands that are better, when you look at the rankings holistically, than the bottom of the big band class. |
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Post by philodemus on Jun 18, 2024 9:08:38 GMT -6
I wonder…..could we do a class ranking intermittently throughout the season. Or at the end of the season. Or just do a Top 10 Small Class at some point. IDK…just thinking. Let's do this. Like, any of the three. All are good. |
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Post by ohioguy2 on Jun 18, 2024 11:41:14 GMT -6
which brings me back to my original point. Why are we ranking bands anyway? 😅😵💫 The top bands are always going to be the ones from large schools with large budgets. Why are we ranking bands? - Because like most youth activities, adults find ways to screw it up. To the bolded part - But I will argue that they aren't always the top bands (in a ranking scenario) if you set the rubric correctly. Using Indiana (since that is my sweet spot) there are a number of small school bands that are better, when you look at the rankings holistically, than the bottom of the big band class. But that doesn't disprove the point. The absolute top bands anywhere are almost always large, affluent, suburban high schools. Indiana is obviously the same way. Yes, the top of Class B might be around the bottom of Class A, but the top of Class A always blows everyone away. If you did a ranking of the top bands in the state, you'd have to go a ways before you got to a Class B school (or a BOA Class A or AA). This is especially apparent in BOA. Other than Tarpon, no class A or AA band has gotten with places of GN finals in years. Every single finalist band (and every single band ever getting ranked on Hornrank) is a huge band from a huge school with a huge budget. |
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Post by paddy on Jun 18, 2024 13:02:35 GMT -6
Why are we ranking bands? - Because like most youth activities, adults find ways to screw it up. To the bolded part - But I will argue that they aren't always the top bands (in a ranking scenario) if you set the rubric correctly. Using Indiana (since that is my sweet spot) there are a number of small school bands that are better, when you look at the rankings holistically, than the bottom of the big band class. But that doesn't disprove the point. The absolute top bands anywhere are almost always large, affluent, suburban high schools. Indiana is obviously the same way. Yes, the top of Class B might be around the bottom of Class A, but the top of Class A always blows everyone away. If you did a ranking of the top bands in the state, you'd have to go a ways before you got to a Class B school (or a BOA Class A or AA). This is especially apparent in BOA. Other than Tarpon, no class A or AA band has gotten with places of GN finals in years. Every single finalist band (and every single band ever getting ranked on Hornrank) is a huge band from a huge school with a huge budget. I am not ranking bands solely via on field success but rather a approaching it from the standpoint of "how do they perform given the hand they are dealt". I realize that is not the norm, and I also am not talking about the top of Class A. Bands like Avon and Carmel perform at a level that is not solely tied to size and budge |
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Post by philodemus on Jun 18, 2024 15:50:32 GMT -6
There are two different ways of thinking about this ranking business: - Whose doing the best in absolute terms?
- Whose doing the best given the circumstances?
This is why, to me anyway, two lists make sense. Give us small school fans a place of our own to get angry about on the internet! Also, I wonder how long it has been since a A class group has been close to finals? I remember Father Ryan being in the top 25ish at Nats maybe a decade ago. Of course Jackson Academy actually made finals in the 90s... It is difficult to imagine a Class A group making Finals under current conditions, but... I think that under just the right circumstances [i.e., a great year for them with a great design AND a Not Texas year at Nats] it could happen. Maybe? Most likely candidates would probably be either Pella, IA or Murray, KY just because they're not only excellent small schools, but excellent small schools with large bands relative to Class A. Still, even then probably not... though it's nice to dream. But, anyway, give us a list! |
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Post by ohioguy2 on Jun 18, 2024 18:23:52 GMT -6
There are two different ways of thinking about this ranking business: - Whose doing the best in absolute terms?
- Whose doing the best given the circumstances?
This is why, to me anyway, two lists make sense. Give us small school fans a place of our own to get angry about on the internet! Also, I wonder how long it has been since a A class group has been close to finals? I remember Father Ryan being in the top 25ish at Nats maybe a decade ago. Of course Jackson Academy actually made finals in the 90s... It is difficult to imagine a Class A group making Finals under current conditions, but... I think that under just the right circumstances [i.e., a great year for them with a great design AND a Not Texas year at Nats] it could happen. Maybe? Most likely candidates would probably be either Pella, IA or Murray, KY just because they're not only excellent small schools, but excellent small schools with large bands relative to Class A. Still, even then probably not... though it's nice to dream. But, anyway, give us a list! Since the four class split in 2009, in Class A and AA you have had Tarpon, Marian, and North Hardin able to finish consistently pretty high. Other than those three schools, the entire list of schools to even finish in the top 25 at Nationals consists of the following: 2023 - Kiski (16th), Morton (18th), Bourbon County* (22nd) 2022 - Morton (19th), Kiski (20th), Jenison (22nd) 2021 - Norwin (23rd) 2019 - Miamisburg (22nd) 2015 - Kiski (21st), Miamisburg (25th) 2012 - Nation Ford (21st), Northmont (25th) 2011 - Father Ryan (15th), Beechwood* (18th), Bourbon County (25th) 2010 - Kiski (19th), Bourbon County* (24th) So we've had three Class A schools even finish in the top 25 since the split, and a few schools finish that high in AA. So maybe with the perfect storm you suggested it could happen, but it's doubtful. |
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Post by scbanddad on Jun 19, 2024 8:09:32 GMT -6
I mean.. in the first half of the season, what are the rankings even based on? A lot of schools don't do any public performances, let alone competitions until late Sept/early Oct. Maybe y'all have access to spy videos or HornRank satellite footage, but even if you had practice or halftime footage, is it worth much at that point? Maybe it makes sense to have a pre-season list, and then wait until mid-Oct to pick up weekly rankings?
For example, I know a certain SC school that keeps a TIGHT lid on show footage until their first competition, so there's really no way to have any idea where to slot them.
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Post by dbalash on Jun 19, 2024 9:54:50 GMT -6
I mean.. in the first half of the season, what are the rankings even based on? A lot of schools don't do any public performances, let alone competitions until late Sept/early Oct. Maybe y'all have access to spy videos or HornRank satellite footage, but even if you had practice or halftime footage, is it worth much at that point? Maybe it makes sense to have a pre-season list, and then wait until mid-Oct to pick up weekly rankings? For example, I know a certain SC school that keeps a TIGHT lid on show footage until their first competition, so there's really no way to have any idea where to slot them. And then you have states like Illinois, where there’s four shows the first weekend. One of the shows will probably get 25+ bands. |
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Post by statechamp1239 on Jun 19, 2024 16:54:02 GMT -6
I mean.. in the first half of the season, what are the rankings even based on? A lot of schools don't do any public performances, let alone competitions until late Sept/early Oct. Maybe y'all have access to spy videos or HornRank satellite footage, but even if you had practice or halftime footage, is it worth much at that point? Maybe it makes sense to have a pre-season list, and then wait until mid-Oct to pick up weekly rankings? For example, I know a certain SC school that keeps a TIGHT lid on show footage until their first competition, so there's really no way to have any idea where to slot them. I was just talking about this, and the perfect example is Claudia Taylor Johnson. I remember everyone was hyping them up in the beginning, but I could never find any videos or any type of evidence, and yet they were rising in ranking and once everyone first saw them and scores came out, everyone thought differently. It just seems like we're just heavily dependent on their last performance from last year show since we haven't seen their new show. Secondly, I never understood why we don't start with bands who has competed on the first week in local events/BOA events. Week 1: 09.12.23 - 6th Week 2: 09.19.23 - 6th Week 3: 09.26.23 - 5th Week 4: 10.03.23 - 5th The week they started competing Week 5: 10.10.23 - 25th |
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jun 22, 2024 21:02:44 GMT -6
I mean.. in the first half of the season, what are the rankings even based on? A lot of schools don't do any public performances, let alone competitions until late Sept/early Oct. Maybe y'all have access to spy videos or HornRank satellite footage, but even if you had practice or halftime footage, is it worth much at that point? Maybe it makes sense to have a pre-season list, and then wait until mid-Oct to pick up weekly rankings? For example, I know a certain SC school that keeps a TIGHT lid on show footage until their first competition, so there's really no way to have any idea where to slot them. yeah this is sort of what I discussed with some of the guys. Doing a preseason ranking, a mid October mid season ranking and a late November end of season ranking. I don’t know really what the perfect solution is! |
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Post by paddy on Jun 23, 2024 5:55:41 GMT -6
I mean.. in the first half of the season, what are the rankings even based on? A lot of schools don't do any public performances, let alone competitions until late Sept/early Oct. Maybe y'all have access to spy videos or HornRank satellite footage, but even if you had practice or halftime footage, is it worth much at that point? Maybe it makes sense to have a pre-season list, and then wait until mid-Oct to pick up weekly rankings? For example, I know a certain SC school that keeps a TIGHT lid on show footage until their first competition, so there's really no way to have any idea where to slot them. I was just talking about this, and the perfect example is Claudia Taylor Johnson. I remember everyone was hyping them up in the beginning, but I could never find any videos or any type of evidence, and yet they were rising in ranking and once everyone first saw them and scores came out, everyone thought differently. It just seems like we're just heavily dependent on their last performance from last year show since we haven't seen their new show. Secondly, I never understood why we don't start with bands who has competed on the first week in local events/BOA events. Week 1: 09.12.23 - 6th Week 2: 09.19.23 - 6th Week 3: 09.26.23 - 5th Week 4: 10.03.23 - 5th The week they started competing Week 5: 10.10.23 - 25th This isn’t unique to these rankings. In college football Notre Dam always starts out too high. In Basketball a couple years ago North Carolina started the season #1 and didn’t make the tournament. Last year MSU started in the top 5 and were pretty mediocre. It is literally how early season rankings work all the time. |
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jun 23, 2024 14:18:13 GMT -6
I was just talking about this, and the perfect example is Claudia Taylor Johnson. I remember everyone was hyping them up in the beginning, but I could never find any videos or any type of evidence, and yet they were rising in ranking and once everyone first saw them and scores came out, everyone thought differently. It just seems like we're just heavily dependent on their last performance from last year show since we haven't seen their new show. Secondly, I never understood why we don't start with bands who has competed on the first week in local events/BOA events. Week 1: 09.12.23 - 6th Week 2: 09.19.23 - 6th Week 3: 09.26.23 - 5th Week 4: 10.03.23 - 5th The week they started competing Week 5: 10.10.23 - 25th This isn’t unique to these rankings. In college football Notre Dam always starts out too high. In Basketball a couple years ago North Carolina started the season #1 and didn’t make the tournament. Last year MSU started in the top 5 and were pretty mediocre. It is literally how early season rankings work all the time. this is so accurate. 🤣 Don’t get me started on how irritated my diehard Razorback husband gets when the college football polls put the Longhorns so high every season. He calls them the most perennially overrated team in college football. Of course that’s mostly because he hates UT. |
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Post by HoosierFan00 on Jul 4, 2024 10:42:46 GMT -6
I think they’re a bit silly but they don’t harm much and they do give a little boost of motivation for most kids in my band. We don’t have many people who take them seriously but the people who do are usually underclassmen. It is also fun to see our directors look at hornrank  I would like to see it expanded though; I don’t really know any bands out of AAA or AAAA and want to learn the lesser known bands that people talk about on the forums. |
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Post by AvonDad on Aug 24, 2024 7:43:58 GMT -6
Catching up on all things band and was reading this thread when I had an idea and LostChoirGuy seemed to match my thoughts. One suggestion could be highlight a band that really grabbed your attention that week at a local event. Find different ones each week let them know, "Hey we see you". Find bands that a lot of people may not even have heard about but you grab your attention and you took notice. There are a lot of smaller schools that work just as hard as the larger ones, and make do with what they have available. I have loved watching Archbishop Altar out of Ohio and their 30-40 people on the field. They even run their show without have a drum major. I have found some smaller bands online that may not look like much visually, but have had some wonderful sound and music for their size. When I marched there was a school out of Dayton, Col White, that marched maybe 20 people on the field in what was Open class that may be AAAA today. They took 2nd over a band pushing 200 on the field out of 3 total open class bands, and I got to watch that live from the backside. They deserved it that day. Many years later, I still remember that day, but who has heard of Col White? I have watched many shows from the smaller groups, that I completely enjoyed and looked forward to seeing how they grow throughout the season. Catchy music, hooks and maybe something extra on the field. I think it was Terre Haute South that had an 80s hair band show recently. Their pit dads were all decked out with big hair and spandex and played the part. Loved it! When I get to go to a competition, I want to get their early and see the smaller groups. They work hard as well and deserve some recognition. Just a thought with my 2 cents. ...and I still like the rankings and reading all the WHAT?!? in the after comments |
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