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Post by LeanderMomma on Jun 12, 2024 11:43:56 GMT -6
If we were to stop the whole weekly band ranking thing altogether.
I have been giving it a lot of thought lately and just wondered what other people think. Is it a positive or negative? Does it improve or inhibit kids from doing their best? In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter?
I am not saying the rankings are going away. I’m just curious what other folks REALLY think about it.
I also wonder if the people in the forums here would say something altogether different than the actual band kids themselves would say…
This has been another episode of “Deep Thoughts by LeanderMomma.” 🤪
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Post by hewhowaits on Jun 12, 2024 11:54:03 GMT -6
We would have to find other things to disagree on. Pretty sure this crowd would be able to come up with multiple somethings.
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Post by jakeymam12 on Jun 12, 2024 12:08:30 GMT -6
I usually find it entertaining to look at, no matter how much I do or don't agree with it.
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Post by 70sguardchick on Jun 12, 2024 14:56:51 GMT -6
I think it would be missed - it is an entertaining way to pass the time between competitions and stimulate some fun discussion. Don't take it too serious....
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jun 12, 2024 15:48:28 GMT -6
I think it would be missed - it is an entertaining way to pass the time between competitions and stimulate some fun discussion. Don't take it too serious.... it’s the kids who take it so seriously unfortunately.
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Post by ilikeguard on Jun 12, 2024 16:53:48 GMT -6
I think it would be missed - it is an entertaining way to pass the time between competitions and stimulate some fun discussion. Don't take it too serious.... it’s the kids who take it so seriously unfortunately. All press is good press!
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Post by dbbandalum on Jun 12, 2024 17:24:58 GMT -6
I think it would be better to just do a preseason and postseason ranking instead of every week
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Post by marimba11 on Jun 12, 2024 18:04:21 GMT -6
I think it would be better to just do a preseason and postseason ranking instead of every week I think I agree with this! Or maybe 3 total, preseason, mid season, end of season. I also wouldn't mind expanding it to top 50 or 60, 30 feels too small especially when they next out is already at like 8 groups.
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Post by flagdodger on Jun 12, 2024 18:18:55 GMT -6
I think it would be better to just do a preseason and postseason ranking instead of every week I think I agree with this! Or maybe 3 total, preseason, mid season, end of season. I also wouldn't mind expanding it to top 50 or 60, 30 feels too small especially when they next out is already at like 8 groups. I’ve always liked the idea of a top 50. There’s so many super consistent groups who just don’t quite make that top 30 rankings. With Grand Nationals being so deep this year, that might justify an extended ranking!
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Post by flagdodger on Jun 12, 2024 18:29:24 GMT -6
It’d be missed for sure. Yes, there tends to be negativity from time to time but the good outweighs the bad. People will take it too seriously however the joy it brings students seeing their band mentioned on stuff like this is amazing. Whether it’s a ranking, FloMarching interview or just some random comment- it truly makes a student feel proud when they see something they participated in getting recognized. I think we would all survive if the rankings went away but they do provide so much excitement for current and former marchers
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Post by coleeich on Jun 12, 2024 19:07:58 GMT -6
I agree. I think it would be missed, but I do think things could be modified. I think the rankings definitely serves as a motivator for students, but I can see how it would be frustrating to not be ranked where you think you deserve. In reality, that is exactly how competitions are, as these also can motivate and be discouraging. In my opinion, if the rankings are to continue, I think there needs to be some adjustment in their format. Personally, I think there needs to be almost complete transparency in how the rankings are formulated and who is voting - have a very clear system and maybe even strengthen the system by having (somewhat equal) representation from various programs, states, etc. Not sure how many people currently vote, but I think increasing the number of voters could help, especially if you were able to regulate and standardize all of those voters. Try to eliminate bias as much as possible. I know that attempts to limit bias are already a thing, but trying to do it even more so. Then, be very clear about the process. Another thought would be to have an "open" rank list like was done a bit last year, and then have a "professionals" rank list so both are available and can be compared. Maybe there should be more categories and things should be broken down more like that, similar to how we get recaps in competitions. Honestly, just brainstorming at this point.
I also agree with expanding the list, especially if it were to be posted less frequently. There are soooo many fantastic groups and the amount of groups worth of a spot on the list continues to lengthen every year. I actually like the current frequency (makes for fun mid-week discussion and increases the stakes), but I understand how implementing some of the things I mentioned above ON TOP OF the current process and possibly expanding the list would make it very time consuming for those involved.
But ultimately if the rankings go away, we would still have a very active forum with lots of great discussion and ultimately an amazing sport to watch each week. That's what really matters.
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Post by kyle on Jun 12, 2024 19:14:27 GMT -6
I do believe that some people take it too seriously, but I also believe that school kids for the most part don't take these too seriously. There will always be the few who do, but I think in general it's a positive experience for us to see where we are/if we are in the rankings and try to push ourselves to do better and rank higher, not because these rankings determine any kind of worth, but because we want to help people enjoy this activity and want to see how much better we can make that happen. These rankings are really fun for an insane amount of band kids, and while there are a few that will make an account and complain about them, there will always be hundreds of band kids checking the rankings and just smiling to themselves instead
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Post by paddy on Jun 12, 2024 19:15:34 GMT -6
I will die on the hill of class based rankings.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jun 12, 2024 20:42:00 GMT -6
Thank you all for the great responses and suggestions. Keep it coming!
But there’s no way we’re ranking 50 bands every week. 😅
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Post by yayband914 on Jun 12, 2024 20:45:33 GMT -6
Thank you all for the great responses and suggestions. Keep it coming! But there’s no way we’re ranking 50 bands every week. 😅 I would suggest three rankings. One pre-season, one mid-season, one post-season. Top 50, Next 10.
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Post by ilikeguard on Jun 12, 2024 22:51:44 GMT -6
A larger list with less frequency makes sense to me. This is the biggest year for BOA yet — while we’re talking about how lots of great bands will miss semifinals this year, why don’t we consider our own expansion? There are bands that made the top 32 five years ago that wouldn’t make the top 50 now who have only gotten better in that time. It seems right to adapt to a deeper field.
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Post by philodemus on Jun 13, 2024 4:22:50 GMT -6
Class.
Based.
Rankings.
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Post by paddy on Jun 13, 2024 6:56:13 GMT -6
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Post by hewhowaits on Jun 13, 2024 7:09:03 GMT -6
Please provide a definitive list of BOA class for all small school bands nationally (not just BOA participants) that should be considered in Class A and to a lesser extent Class AA. Yes, BOA events hold much weight in the rankings, but they aren't the only events considered. How many strong Class A bands in Kentucky and Texas don't participate in BOA? What other Class AA bands (beyond some of the obvious ones like Kiski, Norwin, and Dartmouth) in the Northeast should be on our radar for checking results of events by US Bands, TOB, etc.?
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Post by hewhowaits on Jun 13, 2024 7:10:42 GMT -6
What paddy means is "We have a second. All in favor say 'aye,' those opposed? (shut your yaps)"
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Post by philodemus on Jun 13, 2024 7:17:46 GMT -6
Please provide a definitive list of BOA class for all small school bands nationally (not just BOA participants) that should be considered in Class A and to a lesser extent Class AA. Yes, BOA events hold much weight in the rankings, but they aren't the only events considered. How many strong Class A bands in Kentucky and Texas don't participate in BOA? What other Class AA bands (beyond some of the obvious ones like Kiski, Norwin, and Dartmouth) in the Northeast should be on our radar for checking results of events by US Bands, TOB, etc.? How do we know of the existence of excellent large class bands who don't participate in BOA? I mean, isn't it pretty much, "People from Texas say this non-BOA Texas group is really good"? It's essentially crowdsourced... why could it not be so for small schools?
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Post by hewhowaits on Jun 13, 2024 7:26:30 GMT -6
Please provide a definitive list of BOA class for all small school bands nationally (not just BOA participants) that should be considered in Class A and to a lesser extent Class AA. Yes, BOA events hold much weight in the rankings, but they aren't the only events considered. How many strong Class A bands in Kentucky and Texas don't participate in BOA? What other Class AA bands (beyond some of the obvious ones like Kiski, Norwin, and Dartmouth) in the Northeast should be on our radar for checking results of events by US Bands, TOB, etc.? How do we know of the existence of excellent large class bands who don't participate in BOA? I mean, isn't it pretty much, "People from Texas say this non-BOA Texas group is really good"? It's essentially crowdsourced... why could it not be so for small schools? Voters are looking at results for other circuits and independent shows that include the bands we know about. For example, in California we look at WBA events that include Ayala or James Logan. In Texas, we're researching TMC and HEB. That's where we see comparative results for other bands who may impress enough to lead us to check other shows where those bands participated. Yes, it's crowd sourced. But we need more sourcing information for the smaller classes because the depth of field from BOA only doesn't go very far. For smaller classes, we just don't know which KMEA or TOB (for example) events to research further.
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Post by philodemus on Jun 13, 2024 7:35:22 GMT -6
How do we know of the existence of excellent large class bands who don't participate in BOA? I mean, isn't it pretty much, "People from Texas say this non-BOA Texas group is really good"? It's essentially crowdsourced... why could it not be so for small schools? Voters are looking at results for other circuits and independent shows that include the bands we know about. For example, in California we look at WBA events that include Ayala or James Logan. In Texas, we're researching TMC and HEB. That's where we see comparative results for other bands who may impress enough to lead us to check other shows where those bands participated. Yes, it's crowd sourced. But we need more sourcing information for the smaller classes because the depth of field from BOA only doesn't go very far. For smaller classes, we just don't know which KMEA or TOB (for example) events to research further. Okay, so this is a very interesting peek behind the curtains... If I'm understanding you, the problem isn't in getting a list of groups to have on the radar, it's in finding scores to use as data to rank them? See, I didn't realize that scores were so important in the rankings. I had just assumed y'all were watching videos and making your own call. Which, admittedly, is pretty subjective, but there has to be some amount of subjectivity here. Just thinking it through... we could probably crowdsource a list of competitions whose scores are interesting/reliable, just as we might crowdsource a list of groups to watch. For instance, Kentucky has precisely 1,587,629 competitions in the KMEA season, but I'd say about 5-10 of them have solid lineups with solid judging panels. I bet others can make similar lists for their states.
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Post by hewhowaits on Jun 13, 2024 8:17:37 GMT -6
Voters are looking at results for other circuits and independent shows that include the bands we know about. For example, in California we look at WBA events that include Ayala or James Logan. In Texas, we're researching TMC and HEB. That's where we see comparative results for other bands who may impress enough to lead us to check other shows where those bands participated. Yes, it's crowd sourced. But we need more sourcing information for the smaller classes because the depth of field from BOA only doesn't go very far. For smaller classes, we just don't know which KMEA or TOB (for example) events to research further. Okay, so this is a very interesting peek behind the curtains... If I'm understanding you, the problem isn't in getting a list of groups to have on the radar, it's in finding scores to use as data to rank them? See, I didn't realize that scores were so important in the rankings. I had just assumed y'all were watching videos and making your own call. Which, admittedly, is pretty subjective, but there has to be some amount of subjectivity here. Just thinking it through... we could probably crowdsource a list of competitions whose scores are interesting/reliable, just as we might crowdsource a list of groups to watch. For instance, Kentucky has precisely 1,587,629 competitions in the KMEA season, but I'd say about 5-10 of them have solid lineups with solid judging panels. I bet others can make similar lists for their states. It's a mix. Scores matter. What we see and hear with our own eyes and ears matters. We need to know who to watch/listen to (and sometimes help with getting access to do so).
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Post by hewhowaits on Jun 13, 2024 8:21:10 GMT -6
Try to eliminate bias as much as possible. I know that attempts to limit bias are already a thing, but trying to do it even more so. I hereby pledge to remove the only concious bias I have in my contribution to the rankings. I will henceforth cease to be more critical of the band I am most closely associated with than are a majority of the other voters. Or maybe not - I may still hold that band to a higher standard than I do for others in the same ranking range.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jun 13, 2024 20:03:52 GMT -6
just the thought of all that work gives me a migraine. 😳
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Post by yayband914 on Jun 13, 2024 20:09:59 GMT -6
just the thought of all that work gives me a migraine. 😳 As much as I’d love to see class based rankings, I completely sympathize with your position lol.
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Post by trumpet300 on Jun 13, 2024 21:00:13 GMT -6
My opinion...do predictions for each show for both classes in prelims and finals and leave weekly rankings out. I personally don't think rankings are worth stirring up fights between high school students. I think "official rankings" based on mostly opinion just cause more trouble than we need in the activity. It's just band folks.
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Post by indyguy8362 on Jun 13, 2024 21:12:13 GMT -6
disabling comments for every post the second they are live on insta would be something i would consider. obviously students will still come here to complain but it’s still something. also protects their identity as most the time it seems like the trash talkers aren’t smart enough to make a burner account. no matter how annoying they are, imo, it’s important to protect their identity even if they don’t do it themselves.(also considering 90% of them are minors)
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jun 13, 2024 21:27:27 GMT -6
disabling comments for every post the second they are live on insta would be something i would consider. obviously students will still come here to complain but it’s still something. also protects their identity as most the time it seems like the trash talkers aren’t smart enough to make a burner account. no matter how annoying they are, imo, it’s important to protect their identity even if they don’t do it themselves.(also considering 90% of them are minors) yes it definitely got to the point where I had to turn off comments every time I posted the weekly rankings on Instagram! It’s a drastically different demographic than what we have in the forums evidently.
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