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Post by marimba11 on Oct 28, 2019 11:11:30 GMT -6
Mr South Carolina Band Fan does bring up an interesting point although his approach definitely needs some work. The point being, what makes prelims results so much weaker than finals? Why do some of the scores change radically between the two? I have always wondered why things sometimes change dramatically from prelims to finals when it’s the same bands performing twice on the same day. You can’t really go down this road without driving yourself insane. Look at MGE for example. Represents 30% of the score and can WILDLY very from judge to judge (just look at the recap for this show in particular). Not only that it is definitely be a very subjective caption and can benefit and hurt many bands who otherwise are performing very well or vice verse. It’s just a competition, the nature of competitions comes down to many things , weather, judges feelings, number management.... so many things. Look at Cleveland this weekend... does anyone honestly believe their GE is more than DB??? But something went on during that competition that gave them the edge. Doesn’t matter which contest it is (prelims semis finals whatever). Oh well no one is contesting that... because it’s a competition - it’s not perfect. Congrats to cleveland btw they are great.
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Post by jeremiah on Oct 29, 2019 13:06:58 GMT -6
I’ll say it.
I’d be fine with the highest scoring band in prelims being named national champion in the event that lucas oil stadium was for some reason unable to host semifinals and finals. as long as all band performed in prelims (or at least all but Leander, Hendrickson and Dripping Springs, throwback to 2015)
In fact it wouldn’t have changed the champion at any grand nats in the last decade since 2012.
In 2012, BA had the highest score in prelims (95.40), honestly a result I would have preferred. Second place was a tie between (you guessed it) Avon and Carmel, each scoring a 95.30, just on tenth behind BA, but both on a different panel than BA. However, it was an unbreakable tie, since the two bands also tied in general effect. Oh how things change but don’t change at all.
In 2011, Avon would have fourpeated, beating BA on the same panel in prelims.
In 2008, Lawrence Central would have won, beating Avon on the same panel in prelims.
In 2007, Avon would have won, beating LD Bell in prelims, but on different panels.
In 2006, LD Bell would have won, beating BA on the same panel in prelims.
In 2005, Avon would have won, beating Carmel, who was second on a different panel behind Reagan, and actually placed sixth overall when combining both panels in prelims.
In 1999, Center Grove would have won, beating PCEP in prelims, but on different panels.
In 1997, Lake Park would have won, beating Marian Catholic on the same panel in prelims.
In 1996, I was born and BOA decided they needed to add a semifinals round of competition at Grand Nats, so any data prior to 1996 is a bit different because of how prelims were grouped by class.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Oct 29, 2019 15:11:35 GMT -6
I’ll say it. I’d be fine with the highest scoring band in prelims being named national champion in the event that lucas oil stadium was for some reason unable to host semifinals and finals. as long as all band performed in prelims (or at least all but Leander, Hendrickson and Dripping Springs, throwback to 2015) 8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8 (can't get the quote feature to work since I snipped a bunch of Jeremiah's text) Anyway, I was just going to say---don't talk about 2015. I don't like to think about it. It makes me sad. I'll always wonder where Leander might have ended up in SA that year! We could have won it. It was a great year for us.
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Post by srv1084 on Oct 29, 2019 20:29:49 GMT -6
In 2008, Lawrence Central would have won, beating Avon on the same panel in prelims. I would have been thrilled, as that LC show is one of my all time favorites. What a stunning show. In 2006, LD Bell would have won, beating BA on the same panel in prelims. And I would have been devastated, as BA 2006 was another of my all time favorites. Another stunning show. Not going to argue the execution as I feel the recaps speak for themselves, but highest GE score of all time (until Hebron 2015 semi's, if my memory is correct) wasn't a mistake. Plus, I can't help but feel BA's win played a small role in LD Bell's 2007 choices and eventual win, which was amazing to watch live. BUT, in both instances, I would have accepted the results.
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Post by andyjg on Oct 29, 2019 20:52:55 GMT -6
As a high school marching band member that competed (and lost) at Powder Springs, I'm honestly disappointed in everything I've read here. People are too caught up on scores and winning. I poured my heart out onto the field that rainy day at McEachern, and I know every member of every band did too. Parents and fans, PLEASE remember that to us students, it's not always all about the trophy. Winning is nice but we're going to show up and show out regardless of the results. The memories I made with my friends will last longer than any medal, and I'd still believe that had we won. Thank you for the support.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Oct 29, 2019 21:38:47 GMT -6
As a high school marching band member that competed (and lost) at Powder Springs, I'm honestly disappointed in everything I've read here. People are too caught up on scores and winning. I poured my heart out onto the field that rainy day at McEachern, and I know every member of every band did too. Parents and fans, PLEASE remember that to us students, it's not always all about the trophy. Winning is nice but we're going to show up and show out regardless of the results. The memories I made with my friends will last longer than any medal, and I'd still believe that had we won. Thank you for the support. This gave me all the feels.
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Post by cornet on Oct 30, 2019 9:20:19 GMT -6
As a high school marching band member that competed (and lost) at Powder Springs, I'm honestly disappointed in everything I've read here. People are too caught up on scores and winning. I poured my heart out onto the field that rainy day at McEachern, and I know every member of every band did too. Parents and fans, PLEASE remember that to us students, it's not always all about the trophy. Winning is nice but we're going to show up and show out regardless of the results. The memories I made with my friends will last longer than any medal, and I'd still believe that had we won. Thank you for the support. I agree. But that said, man you are lucky it's not high school sports. Those discussion boards are a true piece of work.
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Post by scbandfan on Oct 30, 2019 15:12:58 GMT -6
I appreciate and understand what andyjg has expressed. I understand that part of BOA events is all about experience and appreciating the efforts and hard work of all the bands
I get that. And I am in no means trying to minimize that part of what BOA brings to the table
But it’s not an either/or discussion. I can appreciate the hard work if every band that takes the field and acknowledge that their expectations and experiences can all be different.
AND I can talk about the competition side of an event that labels itself a regional championship where judges rank and score bands that perform. Based on purely scores, there is a winner from a points point of view but I understand that “winning” may mean something different to a variety of bands.
Just because I have discussed the experiential side of BOS events does not mean that I do not value and appreciate every band that steps into that field because I know if the hard work and sacrifice that goes into this activity
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Post by srv1084 on Oct 30, 2019 21:29:55 GMT -6
I appreciate and understand what andyjg has expressed. I understand that part of BOA events is all about experience and appreciating the efforts and hard work of all the bands I get that. And I am in no means trying to minimize that part of what BOA brings to the table But it’s not an either/or discussion. I can appreciate the hard work if every band that takes the field and acknowledge that their expectations and experiences can all be different. AND I can talk about the competition side of an event that labels itself a regional championship where judges rank and score bands that perform. Based on purely scores, there is a winner from a points point of view but I understand that “winning” may mean something different to a variety of bands. Just because I have discussed the experiential side of BOS events does not mean that I do not value and appreciate every band that steps into that field because I know if the hard work and sacrifice that goes into this activity It certainly isn't an either/or matter - something we can agree on! It's easy to lose sight of what this activity really means from the seat of a spectator looking for entertainment in a niche medium, and the nature of competition in such an inherently subjective format means lots of discussion on the matter. I'm certainly guilty of getting caught up in it, but I will say that posts like andyjg's make me quickly realize why I've stuck around for so long. I think all of us that have been involved in the activity are able to understand the importance of the activity beyond what we see on the field when sitting up in the stands (or behind a computer, I suppose).
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