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Post by rabb2t on Apr 20, 2020 12:16:31 GMT -6
College applications for parents with juniors will be... interesting.
Anyways, my view on this matter is that there's way too much going on right now. Protests in Texas, Indiana, Michigan, you name it. As long as these demonstrations are still up in the air, we're going to have problems that'll keep BOA hanging by a thread. Handing responsibility off to the states is a bad move, especially with how little we've actually done to prepare against this virus. Back in 1918, they actually outlawed being outside without wearing a mask, whereas today... not so much. We need the national government to step it up and actually attempt some safety precautions instead of leaving it up to the states. It won't work if only certain states issue orders to wear facial masks. On the bright side, though, it seems that the Midwestern governors are banding together to see exactly when states will re-open.
I'm not exactly seeing why you would leave the problem to the states.
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Post by OldSchoolTrumpet on Apr 20, 2020 12:47:23 GMT -6
College applications for parents with juniors will be... interesting. Anyways, my view on this matter is that there's way too much going on right now. Protests in Texas, Indiana, Michigan, you name it. As long as these demonstrations are still up in the air, we're going to have problems that'll keep BOA hanging by a thread. Handing responsibility off to the states is a bad move, especially with how little we've actually done to prepare against this virus. Back in 1918, they actually outlawed being outside without wearing a mask, whereas today... not so much. We need the national government to step it up and actually attempt some safety precautions instead of leaving it up to the states. It won't work if only certain states issue orders to wear facial masks. On the bright side, though, it seems that the Midwestern governors are banding together to see exactly when states will re-open. I'm not exactly seeing why you would leave the problem to the states. Because...10th Amendment, and all that.
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Post by Allohak on Apr 20, 2020 13:49:41 GMT -6
College applications for parents with juniors will be... interesting. Anyways, my view on this matter is that there's way too much going on right now. Protests in Texas, Indiana, Michigan, you name it. As long as these demonstrations are still up in the air, we're going to have problems that'll keep BOA hanging by a thread. Handing responsibility off to the states is a bad move, especially with how little we've actually done to prepare against this virus. Back in 1918, they actually outlawed being outside without wearing a mask, whereas today... not so much. We need the national government to step it up and actually attempt some safety precautions instead of leaving it up to the states. It won't work if only certain states issue orders to wear facial masks. On the bright side, though, it seems that the Midwestern governors are banding together to see exactly when states will re-open. I'm not exactly seeing why you would leave the problem to the states. Because...10th Amendment, and all that. Silly laws getting in the way of everybody having a good time /s
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Post by Allohak on Apr 20, 2020 14:24:07 GMT -6
Hate to say it, but I think if spring football is the way things go, I don't see marching band (that is, halftime/competition shows) happening. Bands rely on summertime rehearsals while school isn't in session to get most of their basics and show skeletons set up, which they wouldn't have in the winter/spring. I think we would see glorified pep bands. Sure, pregame festivities will likely remain, but I just don't see it being feasible :/.
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Post by OldSchoolTrumpet on Apr 20, 2020 14:45:48 GMT -6
Hate to say it, but I think if spring football is the way things go, I don't see marching band (that is, halftime/competition shows) happening. Bands rely on summertime rehearsals while school isn't in session to get most of their basics and show skeletons set up, which they wouldn't have in the winter/spring. I think we would see glorified pep bands. Sure, pregame festivities will likely remain, but I just don't see it being feasible :/. Yeah. There would be zero motivation on the part of any band program or band kid to mount anything more that a basic pep band production for a Spring marching band. There is no band kid I've ever known who wanted to march so they could do halftime shows. Most hated doing that. Heck, A few years back a bunch of kids in the the student section at a school I'm somewhat familiar with (ahem, a somewhat regular GN Finalist) were shouting Band Fag at the band as they performed at a football game. Hard to get motivated for a football crowd.
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Post by ilikeguard on Apr 20, 2020 16:30:45 GMT -6
Hate to say it, but I think if spring football is the way things go, I don't see marching band (that is, halftime/competition shows) happening. Bands rely on summertime rehearsals while school isn't in session to get most of their basics and show skeletons set up, which they wouldn't have in the winter/spring. I think we would see glorified pep bands. Sure, pregame festivities will likely remain, but I just don't see it being feasible :/. Yeah. There would be zero motivation on the part of any band program or band kid to mount anything more that a basic pep band production for a Spring marching band. There is no band kid I've ever known who wanted to march so they could do halftime shows. Most hated doing that. Heck, A few years back a bunch of kids in the the student section at a school I'm somewhat familiar with (ahem, a somewhat regular GN Finalist) were shouting Band Fag at the band as they performed at a football game. Hard to get motivated for a football crowd. That’s so disappointing, especially for a school with a reputation of success. I also know a few non-band graduates of a GN finalist school who absolutely despised the band. I hope the students in these bands understand that it’s not always that way. I can’t speak for everyone, but I’ve really enjoyed being in a college band that is purely for crowd entertainment (pretty much your “glorified pep band” doing a new show for each game). That kind of band can still be fun! Even with the high schools that may have members of the student section slandering them, I can guarantee there are other members that have friends in the band who enjoy seeing them march regardless. If this ends up being the situation, I hope band members are able to focus on their fans over their critics.
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Post by paddy on Apr 20, 2020 16:57:45 GMT -6
If schools are able to compete in the spring most aren’t going to be throwing together halftime shows. They will be focused on WGI.
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Post by hewhowaits on Apr 20, 2020 17:09:26 GMT -6
Yeah. There would be zero motivation on the part of any band program or band kid to mount anything more that a basic pep band production for a Spring marching band. There is no band kid I've ever known who wanted to march so they could do halftime shows. Most hated doing that. Heck, A few years back a bunch of kids in the the student section at a school I'm somewhat familiar with (ahem, a somewhat regular GN Finalist) were shouting Band Fag at the band as they performed at a football game. Hard to get motivated for a football crowd. That’s so disappointing, especially for a school with a reputation of success. I also know a few non-band graduates of a GN finalist school who absolutely despised the band. I hope the students in these bands understand that it’s not always that way. I can’t speak for everyone, but I’ve really enjoyed being in a college band that is purely for crowd entertainment (pretty much your “glorified pep band” doing a new show for each game). That kind of band can still be fun! Even with the high schools that may have members of the student section slandering them, I can guarantee there are other members that have friends in the band who enjoy seeing them march regardless. If this ends up being the situation, I hope band members are able to focus on their fans over their critics. Sadly this happens in more places than we care to admit. But it's not always the case. When my kids were in Marching Band (with a well-known, successful program that wasn't yet nearly so successful), it wasn't uncommon for many of the students attending the football game to be generally milling around, visiting with friends, etc. during the first half of the game. Then at halftime, most of them stopped the milling around and visiting to watch the MB performance. They then returned to ignoring the action on the field for the second half. Reminded me of a tee shirt I once saw that said "The football team will be playing before and after the featured Marching Band performance."
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Post by marimba11 on Apr 20, 2020 19:44:02 GMT -6
We don’t have that kind of animosity in the south. Usually when bands step on to the field people start clapping. Respect and tradition
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Post by notinband on Apr 20, 2020 20:00:22 GMT -6
We don’t have that kind of animosity in the south. Usually when bands step on to the field people start clapping. Respect and tradition I agree with this. There are several good bands in the Chicago suburbs that perform portions of their competitive show during halftime. The bands are warmly received.
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Post by Subito Fortissimo on Apr 20, 2020 20:57:23 GMT -6
That’s so disappointing, especially for a school with a reputation of success. I also know a few non-band graduates of a GN finalist school who absolutely despised the band. I hope the students in these bands understand that it’s not always that way. I can’t speak for everyone, but I’ve really enjoyed being in a college band that is purely for crowd entertainment (pretty much your “glorified pep band” doing a new show for each game). That kind of band can still be fun! Even with the high schools that may have members of the student section slandering them, I can guarantee there are other members that have friends in the band who enjoy seeing them march regardless. If this ends up being the situation, I hope band members are able to focus on their fans over their critics. Sadly this happens in more places than we care to admit. But it's not always the case. When my kids were in Marching Band (with a well-known, successful program that wasn't yet nearly so successful), it wasn't uncommon for many of the students attending the football game to be generally milling around, visiting with friends, etc. during the first half of the game. Then at halftime, most of them stopped the milling around and visiting to watch the MB performance. They then returned to ignoring the action on the field for the second half. Reminded me of a tee shirt I once saw that said "The football team will be playing before and after the featured Marching Band performance." It really comes down to school culture and tradition. And the credit or the blame for that mostly goes to the principal, in my experience at least. In the 12 years that I've been an instructor the school I work with has had four different principals. Two of them were wholly indifferent towards the band and were unwilling to do anything when there were issues. One was supportive but was so hated by the student body that it didn't matter. The fourth and current one is well liked by the student body and really preaches unity in the school and encourages the students to support what their peers are doing. It's been pretty incredible to see how quickly the student body went from uninterested in the band to being supportive on Friday nights and seeing the band as an integral part of the game. We even had non-band/non-other fine arts students come volunteer to work at our home show last Fall.
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Post by paddy on Apr 20, 2020 21:13:05 GMT -6
If schools are able to compete in the spring most aren’t going to be throwing together halftime shows. They will be focused on WGI. I think I said this before. Indoor doesn't matter to schools in the grand scheme of things. Marching band is much more important to schools. If there's football, there's marching band, whether it's competitive or not, something I think is not a foregone conclusion as many of you believe. It would be a shame if there couldn't be another indoor season because of this, but I think we all need to just take a step back and remember where each part of the marching arts fits in in general society. I’m speaking from a scenario where there is no competitive marching band just football and based upon my area (Indiana). If the competitive indoor season is a go with no competitive marching band, most bands I know will compete and not spend much time throwing together a half time show for 4 or 5 (in Indiana) home football games played in crap weather. Marching bands rarely travel to away games by me. Doesn’t mean they won’t roll out a pre-game with the anthem and the school song and they might even throw a simple formation or 2 with some bark and park, but they aren’t going to roll out 7-9 minutes of choreographed and staged show. You think Avon is going to spend a bunch of time setting up a marching band show in a non-competitive scenario and not compete in Guard, Percussion and Winds?
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Post by lostchoirguy on Apr 20, 2020 22:54:15 GMT -6
Avon would be one of very few exceptions. The majority of marching bands exist because football exists. That isn't to remove the merit of what they do or to diminish their own competitive seasons, but it is what it is. Most schools near where I grew up (North Texas) had a non-competitive show they would perform sometimes during half-time. It wasnt very musically difficult and the drill is mostly go to set 1 and play then move to set 2 and play type of stuff, but it can still be fun and the music is usually recognizable. I would imagine lots of groups would do this and use it as an opportunity to teach fundamentals for the next year.
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Post by OldSchoolTrumpet on Apr 21, 2020 6:16:24 GMT -6
Sadly this happens in more places than we care to admit. But it's not always the case. When my kids were in Marching Band (with a well-known, successful program that wasn't yet nearly so successful), it wasn't uncommon for many of the students attending the football game to be generally milling around, visiting with friends, etc. during the first half of the game. Then at halftime, most of them stopped the milling around and visiting to watch the MB performance. They then returned to ignoring the action on the field for the second half. Reminded me of a tee shirt I once saw that said "The football team will be playing before and after the featured Marching Band performance." It really comes down to school culture and tradition. And the credit or the blame for that mostly goes to the principal, in my experience at least. In the 12 years that I've been an instructor the school I work with has had four different principals. Two of them were wholly indifferent towards the band and were unwilling to do anything when there were issues. One was supportive but was so hated by the student body that it didn't matter. The fourth and current one is well liked by the student body and really preaches unity in the school and encourages the students to support what their peers are doing. It's been pretty incredible to see how quickly the student body went from uninterested in the band to being supportive on Friday nights and seeing the band as an integral part of the game. We even had non-band/non-other fine arts students come volunteer to work at our home show last Fall. I would like to clarify something, since I mentioned the "incident" which sparked this conversations. The chant which I mentioned was not an organized chant from the entire student section, rather it was merely from a few (8-10) members of the student section. The school in question is very supportive of the band, obviously, though football crowds (except band parents that attend games) couldn't care less about the halftime show and largely ignore the band. On the night I referenced the chant from the stands could be heard by one of my daughters who was at that end of the field, but not the other, who was near mid-field. So it was just some idiots, and not representative of the school. Still, my original point remains. Most bands don't care about football games, at least not putting in hours and hours of time preparing intricate shows for people who don't care even a little bit about watching them. Spring marching band would be pep band.
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Post by drumcorpsgeek on Apr 21, 2020 6:20:11 GMT -6
It really comes down to school culture and tradition. And the credit or the blame for that mostly goes to the principal, in my experience at least. In the 12 years that I've been an instructor the school I work with has had four different principals. Two of them were wholly indifferent towards the band and were unwilling to do anything when there were issues. One was supportive but was so hated by the student body that it didn't matter. The fourth and current one is well liked by the student body and really preaches unity in the school and encourages the students to support what their peers are doing. It's been pretty incredible to see how quickly the student body went from uninterested in the band to being supportive on Friday nights and seeing the band as an integral part of the game. We even had non-band/non-other fine arts students come volunteer to work at our home show last Fall. I would like to clarify something, since I mentioned the "incident" which sparked this conversations. The chant which I mentioned was not an organized chant from the entire student section, rather it was merely from a few (8-10) members of the student section. The school in question is very supportive of the band, obviously, though football crowds (except band parents that attend games) couldn't care less about the halftime show and largely ignore the band. On the night I referenced the chant from the stands could be heard by one of my daughters who was at that end of the field, but not the other, who was near mid-field. So it was just some idiots, and not representative of the school. Still, my original point remains. Most bands don't care about football games, at least not putting in hours and hours of time preparing intricate shows for people who don't care even a little bit about watching them. Spring marching band would be pep band. Not if circuits possible contingency plans include it.
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Post by OldSchoolTrumpet on Apr 21, 2020 6:52:31 GMT -6
I would like to clarify something, since I mentioned the "incident" which sparked this conversations. The chant which I mentioned was not an organized chant from the entire student section, rather it was merely from a few (8-10) members of the student section. The school in question is very supportive of the band, obviously, though football crowds (except band parents that attend games) couldn't care less about the halftime show and largely ignore the band. On the night I referenced the chant from the stands could be heard by one of my daughters who was at that end of the field, but not the other, who was near mid-field. So it was just some idiots, and not representative of the school. Still, my original point remains. Most bands don't care about football games, at least not putting in hours and hours of time preparing intricate shows for people who don't care even a little bit about watching them. Spring marching band would be pep band. Not if circuits possible contingency plans include it. I don't see where any midwest or northern group could possibly compete in a spring circuit. Texas and Southern schools maybe. They were building snowmen in Indiana three days ago!
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Post by paddy on Apr 21, 2020 6:55:25 GMT -6
Avon would be one of very few exceptions. The majority of marching bands exist because football exists. That isn't to remove the merit of what they do or to diminish their own competitive seasons, but it is what it is. Most schools near where I grew up (North Texas) had a non-competitive show they would perform sometimes during half-time. It wasnt very musically difficult and the drill is mostly go to set 1 and play then move to set 2 and play type of stuff, but it can still be fun and the music is usually recognizable. I would imagine lots of groups would do this and use it as an opportunity to teach fundamentals for the next year. 1. You are talking about Texas where Football is a religion. 2. There are a number of schools that would compete via indoor in Indiana if there was not competitive marching band. 3. I agree, those bands will do exactly what you said because that is what I said in my post. They aren’t going to put forth a full bore competitive marching band show if the indoor season is a go.
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Post by paddy on Apr 21, 2020 6:58:13 GMT -6
I would like to clarify something, since I mentioned the "incident" which sparked this conversations. The chant which I mentioned was not an organized chant from the entire student section, rather it was merely from a few (8-10) members of the student section. The school in question is very supportive of the band, obviously, though football crowds (except band parents that attend games) couldn't care less about the halftime show and largely ignore the band. On the night I referenced the chant from the stands could be heard by one of my daughters who was at that end of the field, but not the other, who was near mid-field. So it was just some idiots, and not representative of the school. Still, my original point remains. Most bands don't care about football games, at least not putting in hours and hours of time preparing intricate shows for people who don't care even a little bit about watching them. Spring marching band would be pep band. Not if circuits possible contingency plans include it. Exactly. If there was competitive marching band it may be a different conversation. However that type of circuit will require a late June early July end date for the Midwest and northeast. As has been posted out you aren’t working outside in the Midwest in February.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Apr 21, 2020 8:55:13 GMT -6
I guess we wait and see what happens. In Texas, it’s a 6A State competition for band this year. I will be curious if they just cancel that completely or what. And if they do, do they make it up next year like the Olympics, or just skip it altogether?
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Apr 21, 2020 12:03:53 GMT -6
I feel like marching band season will be presumed to happen "as normal" until either BOA or UIL announces otherwise. Just like how every local indoor circuit shut down within 3 days of WGI canceling their season, so will every local band circuit follow BOA's/UIL's direction.
As suggested by others in this thread, BOA may be able to simply eliminate early-season regionals and focus on later season events. UIL competition would likely be canceled if UIL cancels the football season... which is currently on the docket.
I do not think marching band would be rescheduled for the spring––at least, not on any sort of circuit-wide scale. I think there would be more emphasis on "resuming normalcy" than on rescheduling canceled events. Indoor season will resume for those schools who regularly participate. Solo and ensemble festivals (which typically happen during the spring) will resume.
If football is rescheduled for the spring, some programs may commission a glorified pep band for their games. The logistics of a marching band season are so complex; there's no way any program would have the rehearsal space, weather conditions, student commitment, and staff availability to make a competitive show happen.
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Post by Allohak on Apr 21, 2020 15:52:43 GMT -6
it is insulting to hear some of the comments made about bands ... but to think of us as non-equals is absolutely insulting. No one has insulted show bands here
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Apr 21, 2020 16:57:09 GMT -6
I think we all need to remember something. BOA is an extremely small part of this activity. Sure, on the DCI/WGI/BOA fan scale it is a large part with some of the best educators and designers. But it is not in the least bit reminiscent of the marching activity as a whole. The marching band activity is much more like “your hometown high school bands” than these absolutely amazing BOA bands that we all adore. I know I have mentioned this before, but my band is not competitive. Of course, that doesn’t make my geeking out on this activity any less, but it is insulting to hear some of the comments made about bands like ours. We may not put in the amount of time or have the member dedication that great high school programs do, but to think of us as non-equals is absolutely insulting. Sure we may not be as talented, but we all care. The majority of bands in the US either compete on a small scale, or are non competitive. BOA is a great part of the marching world, but 100% is not the whole thing. It sounds like you are upset with those who indicate that marching band may not happen in the 2020-2021 academic year. To be clear: those who suggest that band may not happen are suggesting this as an observation, not as a demand or as a hope. I cannot imagine that anyone WANTS to cancel, postpone, or shorten the band season. If anything, we are expecting the worst but hoping for the best. Some find it helpful to speculate alternative timelines. What happens if band is canceled? If band is canceled, when will it happen, what will prompt it to happen, and will it be prompted by individual programs electing to cancel their own seasons or will it be prompted by circuits themselves deciding to cancel their seasons? Are there any precautionary steps that we can take to salvage some of the season (e.g., canceling early season shows)? Some people will find peace by asking these questions and reasoning through possible answers/solutions. Others would rather not ask such questions; proposing these questions only fuels any anxiety we already have about the future. Surely, it is unhelpful to dwell on how bad things may get. But I would argue that it is also unhelpful to dwell on how good things must get. Psyching ourselves up for what the future must entail––saying that "things HAVE to get better"––blinds us to accepting reality for what it is. If things pan out worse than we hoped for, it only makes life that much more painful to bear. There is a difference between dwelling on the good/bad and dwelling on the possible. The " possible" does not have to be inherently good OR bad: it can simply "be." As I've gotten older, I've learned to stop seeing things as inherently good or bad. I've realized how my perspective controls how I perceive situations. For example, I've viewed my time in quarantine as time to focus on myself, what my values are, and how I can grow. With so much free time, I've been inspired to read, rest, and reflect more. With a different mindset, I would not feel so inspired. My mindset doesn't change the fact that I'm still in quarantine––it doesn't change reality––but my mindset does change my perception of reality. If you (or anyone else) are in a dark place right now, I empathize with you. I grieve with you. I am lucky that my experiences have shaped me to have the optimistic mindset I currently have. I hope you may find a shift in your own perception of reality such that you are able to accept reality for what it is without projecting your fears onto other people's perspectives. I hope you are able to trust that no one on these forums wishes ill upon you, your program, or other programs like yours. It can be easy to project your own internal anger onto the words of others, but I encourage you to not take things personally if things are not framed personally against you. I, along with you and everyone else reading this, desperately hope the marching band season happens this fall. Only time will tell what will happen. Until then, we will keep discussing what may happen. I encourage you to keep an open mind for the opinions and shared on here.
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Post by ohioguy2 on Apr 30, 2020 15:07:05 GMT -6
Ohio officially extended its school closure, including extracurriculars, to June 30.
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Post by dallasman on Apr 30, 2020 15:34:19 GMT -6
I think we all need to remember something. BOA is an extremely small part of this activity. Sure, on the DCI/WGI/BOA fan scale it is a large part with some of the best educators and designers. But it is not in the least bit reminiscent of the marching activity as a whole. The marching band activity is much more like “your hometown high school bands” than these absolutely amazing BOA bands that we all adore. I know I have mentioned this before, but my band is not competitive. Of course, that doesn’t make my geeking out on this activity any less, but it is insulting to hear some of the comments made about bands like ours. We may not put in the amount of time or have the member dedication that great high school programs do, but to think of us as non-equals is absolutely insulting. Sure we may not be as talented, but we all care. The majority of bands in the US either compete on a small scale, or are non competitive. BOA is a great part of the marching world, but 100% is not the whole thing. I think many of the big-named programs, while good on their merits, have to spend big and hire outside of their respective organizations for key design and music roles to even resemble a highly-competitive marching band. Those programs are the ones using the crutches within the marching arena. Take away those key positions and it's a joke. Concert band is different but marching is as well. It's 98% of the BOA crowd beyond prelims, but oh well. They would be in some cases no better or known than perhaps the band program you are referring to. 95% of it is all a game of cat & mouse and 95% of the country doesn't know what BOA is anyway. Few will MISS BOA if it doesn't go on in the fall. Sure, some high school students might & some rabid band fans will, but taking a year off could present a great opportunity to revisit BOA's mission & rewire the ethics surrounding how the American marching band shows are created.
Preserving respect for all bands should remain front & center. Vaulting certain programs who can't do it on their own into a different stratosphere than others who try to do things on their own (internally) is wrong.
Much respect for those who can fundraise in order to pull off some outside drill writer or arranger's work -- or to have huge staffs -- as the kids still have to perform it. But an even greater respect to those who don't get no respect and stand up, like you, to call out the faux-elitist vibe that is so prevalent in the arts world.
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Post by Samuel Culper on Apr 30, 2020 20:26:15 GMT -6
I think we all need to remember something. BOA is an extremely small part of this activity. Sure, on the DCI/WGI/BOA fan scale it is a large part with some of the best educators and designers. But it is not in the least bit reminiscent of the marching activity as a whole. The marching band activity is much more like “your hometown high school bands” than these absolutely amazing BOA bands that we all adore. I know I have mentioned this before, but my band is not competitive. Of course, that doesn’t make my geeking out on this activity any less, but it is insulting to hear some of the comments made about bands like ours. We may not put in the amount of time or have the member dedication that great high school programs do, but to think of us as non-equals is absolutely insulting. Sure we may not be as talented, but we all care. The majority of bands in the US either compete on a small scale, or are non competitive. BOA is a great part of the marching world, but 100% is not the whole thing. I think many of the big-named programs, while good on their merits, have to spend big and hire outside of their respective organizations for key design and music roles to even resemble a highly-competitive marching band. Those programs are the ones using the crutches within the marching arena. Take away those key positions and it's a joke. Concert band is different but marching is as well. It's 98% of the BOA crowd beyond prelims, but oh well. They would be in some cases no better or known than perhaps the band program you are referring to. 95% of it is all a game of cat & mouse and 95% of the country doesn't know what BOA is anyway. Few will MISS BOA if it doesn't go on in the fall. Sure, some high school students might & some rabid band fans will, but taking a year off could present a great opportunity to revisit BOA's mission & rewire the ethics surrounding how the American marching band shows are created.
Preserving respect for all bands should remain front & center. Vaulting certain programs who can't do it on their own into a different stratosphere than others who try to do things on their own (internally) is wrong.
Much respect for those who can fundraise in order to pull off some outside drill writer or arranger's work -- or to have huge staffs -- as the kids still have to perform it. But an even greater respect to those who don't get no respect and stand up, like you, to call out the faux-elitist vibe that is so prevalent in the arts world.
How incredibly insulting to the BOA bands who are successful. And highly inaccurate in so many cases. I think the great number of ensembles that garner invites to the Midwest Clinic, PASIC and other similar well-regarded events that come from schools (and their feeders) who are successful in the BOA arena is not a coincidence. There is nothing "cat & mouse" about those selection processes. And I see scarce evidence around here of fans of those BOA bands saying anything to denigrate the efforts of those in bands who are "non competitive". Shame on anybody who does, all high school kids who put their heart and soul into the arts are to be admired. But there is nothing more or less noble about participating in bands that compete and succeed on either end of the competitive spectrum. You post drips with disdain for BOA bands and, combined with your earlier proclamations that called for MFA to go ahead and cancel the season, you leave the distinct impression that you would be happy if it just went away. The real question is: Why do you care? If it is such a small part of the marching band activity, then why does it matter that it exists? Why don't you just ignore it? As for me, I hope that this fall goes off as normally as possible and I am able to enjoy every single Friday night and Saturday, enthusiastically applauding the performances of every single band that takes the field in front of me, be it a defending Grand National Champion or a band that has never advanced to the Finals of even a local contest. I enjoy and RESPECT them all.
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Post by dallasman on Apr 30, 2020 20:51:55 GMT -6
I have left plenty of room for successful programs and the students who comprise them to be lauded for their accomplishments. At the same time, I also firmly believe that the system is a bit more rigged in favor of third-party contractors rather than internal staff. You take away those who stage the shows and we're most likely talking about a MUCH smaller group of 'elite' bands.
With that in mind, I think there are several other programs who may not whiff 75 at a BOA event who actually accomplish more. While it does take talent to execute fairly complex music & movement, let's also recognize that without $$$ flooding into certain aspects of the fall programs, not logistically, but as a structural matter, you would not see much of a difference between the typical American marching band & BOA bands who many think are beyond reproach.
I can only think of maybe a few BOA Bands, including the most historically successful band program, who have not had to subscribe to exporting important aspects of their fall program to be successful. I'm sure you can probably guess who they are. If you can tell me a few elite bands whose directors arrange their music or design their drill and I'll shut up. It's been farmed out for decades. Smart directors make the best use of those resources. But it's very much like riding a bicycle on training wheels.
BOA being cancelled in the fall can be an opportunity. You make the mistake by assuming I want them to cancel just to stick it to the marching arts community. I think it's more likely to happen based on the fear factor & think it would probably be a huge financial issue for BOA to probably keep the schedule as-is.
I think many of the big-named programs, while good on their merits, have to spend big and hire outside of their respective organizations for key design and music roles to even resemble a highly-competitive marching band. Those programs are the ones using the crutches within the marching arena. Take away those key positions and it's a joke. Concert band is different but marching is as well. It's 98% of the BOA crowd beyond prelims, but oh well. They would be in some cases no better or known than perhaps the band program you are referring to. 95% of it is all a game of cat & mouse and 95% of the country doesn't know what BOA is anyway. Few will MISS BOA if it doesn't go on in the fall. Sure, some high school students might & some rabid band fans will, but taking a year off could present a great opportunity to revisit BOA's mission & rewire the ethics surrounding how the American marching band shows are created.
Preserving respect for all bands should remain front & center. Vaulting certain programs who can't do it on their own into a different stratosphere than others who try to do things on their own (internally) is wrong.
Much respect for those who can fundraise in order to pull off some outside drill writer or arranger's work -- or to have huge staffs -- as the kids still have to perform it. But an even greater respect to those who don't get no respect and stand up, like you, to call out the faux-elitist vibe that is so prevalent in the arts world.
How incredibly insulting to the BOA bands who are successful. And highly inaccurate in so many cases. I think the great number of ensembles that garner invites to the Midwest Clinic, PASIC and other similar well-regarded events that come from schools (and their feeders) who are successful in the BOA arena is not a coincidence. There is nothing "cat & mouse" about those selection processes. And I see scarce evidence around here of fans of those BOA bands saying anything to denigrate the efforts of those in bands who are "non competitive". Shame on anybody who does, all high school kids who put their heart and soul into the arts are to be admired. But there is nothing more or less noble about participating in bands that compete and succeed on either end of the competitive spectrum. You post drips with disdain for BOA bands and, combined with your earlier proclamations that called for MFA to go ahead and cancel the season, you leave the distinct impression that you would be happy if it just went away. The real question is: Why do you care? If it is such a small part of the marching band activity, then why does it matter that it exists? Why don't you just ignore it? As for me, I hope that this fall goes off as normally as possible and I am able to enjoy every single Friday night and Saturday, enthusiastically applauding the performances of every single band that takes the field in front of me, be it a defending Grand National Champion or a band that has never advanced to the Finals of even a local contest. I enjoy and RESPECT them all.
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Post by hewhowaits on May 1, 2020 6:07:56 GMT -6
And I see scarce evidence around here of fans of those BOA bands saying anything to denigrate the efforts of those in bands who are "non competitive". Shame on anybody who does, all high school kids who put their heart and soul into the arts are to be admired. But there is nothing more or less noble about participating in bands that compete and succeed on either end of the competitive spectrum. ... As for me, I hope that this fall goes off as normally as possible and I am able to enjoy every single Friday night and Saturday, enthusiastically applauding the performances of every single band that takes the field in front of me, be it a defending Grand National Champion or a band that has never advanced to the Finals of even a local contest. I enjoy and RESPECT them all. Thank you Samuel Culper for putting down in words the essence of why we all love the activity. Some of my favorite PERFORMANCES are from the bands that finish 94th overall at Grand Nationals, because of the passion the students put into that performance and the sheer joy on their faces when they have completed their show. I, for one, applaud just as loudly for Avon (OH) as I do for Avon (IN) and stand in appreciation for Metamora Township (IL) the same as for Vandegrift (TX). I know I am not alone in this.
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Post by hewhowaits on May 1, 2020 6:16:46 GMT -6
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Post by LeanderMomma on May 1, 2020 8:09:46 GMT -6
You’re killing it with the dad jokes hewhowaits. 🤣
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Post by paddy on May 1, 2020 8:10:21 GMT -6
I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that using outside talent is bad and that bands should only use internal staff.
How does that work for a Class D or C Indiana Band which is basically an BOA A Class Band? I understand that they are outside the norm for Texas where practically everyone is a AAA or AAAA, but it is reality here. A good Class D program likely has 1 full time band director. They may have a interested elementary music teacher that helps out some, but other than that there are zero music educators in their entire school district. That one person is supposed to do the following themselves or find people within their district to:
write drill choreograph and teach body choreograph and teach guard routines arrange music design props teach basics
On top of: Teach band (and sometimes 2 sections of general music, a choir and carry 2 lunch duties) Run rehearsals Run sectionals Manage the budget Attend to all the other things teachers do (staff meetings, IEP meetings, meet with their principal about evaluations) Try to have some semblance of life outside band
Maybe you get lucky and you are able to cobble together enough money from your boosters and your school district to hire a triple threat marching arts savant for $28k and no benefits that will handle a bunch of that, but maybe they will just crap out golden eggs too.
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