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Post by johnml on Oct 20, 2019 20:56:32 GMT -6
Finals predictions (alphabetical) 1. Avon 2. Blue springs 3. Carmel 4. Castle 5. Center Grove 6. Centerville 7. Fishers 8. Homestead 9. Lakota East 10. Lincoln way 11. Lockport Township 12. North Hardin 13. O’Fallon Township 14. Plainfield
Next 4 out:
Brownsburg Lawrence Township Marian Catholic Eden Prairie
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Post by ... with a score of 0.00 on Oct 21, 2019 8:30:32 GMT -6
Here’s what I have:
Top 3: 1. Avon 2. Carmel 3. Blue Springs
Not quite top 3 but definitely making finals: 4. Homestead 5. Castle
Middle of the pack, pretty sure all will make finals: 6. Centerville 7. Fishers 8. Center Grove 9. O Fallon Township
Holy crap, anything can happen: 10. Lakota East 11. Lockport Township 12. Lincoln Way 13. Marian Catholic 14. Plainfield / Lawrence Township / North Hardin
Other amazing groups that could’ve easily made my top 14 if this year wasn’t so packed:
Brownsburg, Prospect, Grove City, Morton, Mustang, Grain Valley, Pickerington North
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Post by es203 on Oct 21, 2019 8:37:27 GMT -6
I can definitely see Homestead cracking top 3 and knocking out Blue Springs, anyone else?
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Post by nomorehoney on Oct 21, 2019 9:51:50 GMT -6
Finalist predictions:
1. Carmel, IN 2. Avon, IN 3. Blue Springs, MO 4. Castle, IN 5. Homestead, IN 6. Centerville, OH 7. Fishers, IN 8. O'Fallon Township, IL 9. Center Grove, IN 10. Lincoln-Way, IL 11. North Hardin, KY 12. Lakota East, OH 13. Lockport Township, IL 14. Plainfield, IN
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Post by thewho on Oct 21, 2019 9:56:57 GMT -6
I can definitely see Homestead cracking top 3 and knocking out Blue Springs, anyone else? You're not the only one with that opinion. This is certainly a much stronger show music GE-wise and I think they'll get a boost in those scores. I wonder whether they'll actually beat Blue Springs but I have no doubt they'll be within a point or so behind BS.
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Post by marimba11 on Oct 21, 2019 10:09:56 GMT -6
I can definitely see Homestead cracking top 3 and knocking out Blue Springs, anyone else? You're not the only one with that opinion. This is certainly a much stronger show music GE-wise and I think they'll get a boost in those scores. I wonder whether they'll actually beat Blue Springs but I have no doubt they'll be within a point or so behind BS. It’s possible, but that would be no easy task. Homestead would of had to have improved a lot since Toledo - which I’m sure they have. They have the show, it just needed to be cleaned. Keep in mind this is Blue Springs last show of the season, they will probably be firing on all cylinders in finals here.
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Post by TeamIndiana on Oct 21, 2019 10:16:21 GMT -6
You're not the only one with that opinion. This is certainly a much stronger show music GE-wise and I think they'll get a boost in those scores. I wonder whether they'll actually beat Blue Springs but I have no doubt they'll be within a point or so behind BS. It’s possible, but that would be no easy task. Homestead would of had to have improved a lot since Toledo - which I’m sure they have. They have the show, it just needed to be cleaned. Keep in mind this is Blue Springs last show of the season, they will probably be firing on all cylinders in finals here. I too think it is possible, they definitely have the show to crack the top 3 but I don’t think it will be clean enough. As mentioned, Homestead has several weeks left to clean and add the final touches to their show. This is Blue Springs final competition so I feel like they will have a cleaner and more refined product. I think it will be close between the two groups overall though (similar to 2016)
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Post by johnml on Oct 21, 2019 10:43:18 GMT -6
Finalist predictions: 1. Carmel, IN 2. Avon, IN 3. Blue Springs, MO 4. Castle, IN 5. Homestead, IN 6. Centerville, OH 7. Fishers, IN 8. O'Fallon Township, IL 9. Center Grove, IN 10. Lincoln-Way, IL 11. North Hardin, KY 12. Lakota East, OH 13. Lockport Township, IL 14. Plainfield, IN Plainfield will get higher, they beat Center Grove by a significant margin at ISSMA two days ago. Lakota East will probably get 13th and Lockport 14th.
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Post by indyguardmom on Oct 21, 2019 10:47:36 GMT -6
Finalist predictions: 1. Carmel, IN 2. Avon, IN 3. Blue Springs, MO 4. Castle, IN 5. Homestead, IN 6. Centerville, OH 7. Fishers, IN 8. O'Fallon Township, IL 9. Center Grove, IN 10. Lincoln-Way, IL 11. North Hardin, KY 12. Lakota East, OH 13. Lockport Township, IL 14. Plainfield, IN Plainfield will get higher, they beat Center Grove by a significant margin at ISSMA two days ago. Lakota East will probably get 13th and Lockport 14th. I agree. And I don't see Castle topping Homestead, Fishers or even Plainfield. It's a pity that Carroll isn't competing this weekend.
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Post by ... with a score of 0.00 on Oct 21, 2019 10:57:28 GMT -6
Finalist predictions: 1. Carmel, IN 2. Avon, IN 3. Blue Springs, MO 4. Castle, IN 5. Homestead, IN 6. Centerville, OH 7. Fishers, IN 8. O'Fallon Township, IL 9. Center Grove, IN 10. Lincoln-Way, IL 11. North Hardin, KY 12. Lakota East, OH 13. Lockport Township, IL 14. Plainfield, IN Plainfield will get higher, they beat Center Grove by a significant margin at ISSMA two days ago. Lakota East will probably get 13th and Lockport 14th. I saw Lakota East at an OMEA show this past weekend and they are on fire. I know earlier in the season I had them a little higher than I should’ve but they are a completely different group than we saw them at Columbus. I wouldn’t be surprised if they got into the top 10 at Indy
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Post by OldSchoolTrumpet on Oct 21, 2019 11:28:46 GMT -6
It’s possible, but that would be no easy task. Homestead would of had to have improved a lot since Toledo - which I’m sure they have. They have the show, it just needed to be cleaned. Keep in mind this is Blue Springs last show of the season, they will probably be firing on all cylinders in finals here. I too think it is possible, they definitely have the show to crack the top 3 but I don’t think it will be clean enough. As mentioned, Homestead has several weeks left to clean and add the final touches to their show. This is Blue Springs final competition so I feel like they will have a cleaner and more refined product. I think it will be close between the two groups overall though (similar to 2016) Agree. A group like Homestead isn't finished yet. Not all of the elements have been introduced. It hasn't been cleaned the way they'll clean before ISSMA Finals, and GN's. I see little chance that Homestead in their current form will overtake a polished Blue Springs. I do see Homestead as a clear 4th though, so long as they perform their show as well as they are currently capable of performing it. I'll say: 1. Avon 2. Carmel 3. Blue Springs 4. Homestead 5. Fishers 6. O'Fallon 7. Centerville
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Post by thewho on Oct 21, 2019 11:45:05 GMT -6
I don't think Center Grove and Plainfield are strong enough at this point to overtake either Lincoln-Way, Lakota East, or North Hardin.
I think 12-14 is realistic for those bands. Center Grove is scoring well enough in GE to keep them in the race while Plainfield has the most complete package at the moment out of all the Indiana bands.
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Post by tubamom on Oct 21, 2019 11:49:33 GMT -6
How many bands advance to the finals??
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Post by indyguardmom on Oct 21, 2019 11:52:29 GMT -6
How many bands advance to the finals?? 14
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Post by das88 on Oct 21, 2019 11:52:38 GMT -6
Plainfield will get higher, they beat Center Grove by a significant margin at ISSMA two days ago. Lakota East will probably get 13th and Lockport 14th. I agree. And I don't see Castle topping Homestead, Fishers or even Plainfield. It's a pity that Carroll isn't competing this weekend. If Fishers and Plainfield beat Castle this weekend I will skip around Monument Circle and record it.
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Post by thewho on Oct 21, 2019 12:03:51 GMT -6
I agree. And I don't see Castle topping Homestead, Fishers or even Plainfield. It's a pity that Carroll isn't competing this weekend. If Fishers and Plainfield beat Castle this weekend I will skip around Monument Circle and record it. Well, if you were talking about last weekend instead....
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Post by es203 on Oct 21, 2019 12:04:08 GMT -6
What has happened to Castle since Louisville? They sounded great and scored pretty well there. Did they not place well at ISSMA?
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Post by thewho on Oct 21, 2019 12:09:10 GMT -6
What has happened to Castle since Louisville? They sounded great and scored pretty well there. Did they not place well at ISSMA? They're in the thick of things according to ISSMA between Plainfield, Ben Davis, Lawrence Township, and Center Grove. Granted, they and Plainfield got the upper hand on the rest, but realistically they should've been closer to Fishers to have a finals lock. Worst part is that I can absolutely the reasoning behind their placing. Visually, they're fine for GE, but they're much lower in music GE.
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Post by es203 on Oct 21, 2019 12:19:19 GMT -6
What has happened to Castle since Louisville? They sounded great and scored pretty well there. Did they not place well at ISSMA? They're in the thick of things according to ISSMA between Plainfield, Ben Davis, Lawrence Township, and Center Grove. Granted, they and Plainfield got the upper hand on the rest, but realistically they should've been closer to Fishers to have a finals lock. Worst part is that I can absolutely the reasoning behind their placing. Visually, they're fine for GE, but they're much lower in music GE. Wow. ISSMA is a bloodbath lol
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Post by marimba11 on Oct 21, 2019 12:19:45 GMT -6
Probably shouldn’t jump back into the Castle conversation, but I’d say they will probably be able to beat Fishers and such, even with their low GE show. I happen to like fishers this year I but I think they’re too dirty, same with lincoln way - maybe they’ll clean up enough. No way they beat homestead or ofallon. They could end up being 6th probably highest.
Remember that time Centerville beat Castle at Indy then a week later couldn’t even make semis at GN? And castle made finals... yeah crazy story lol
Nevertheless castle doesn’t have a show like 2016 and they’re not going to GN, just a friendly reminder
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Post by thewho on Oct 21, 2019 12:50:20 GMT -6
Probably shouldn’t jump back into the Castle conversation, but I’d say they will probably be able to beat Fishers and such, even with their low GE show. I happen to like fishers this year I but I think they’re too dirty, same with lincoln way - maybe they’ll clean up enough. No way they beat homestead or ofallon. They could end up being 6th probably highest. Remember that time Centerville beat Castle at Indy then a week later couldn’t even make semis at GN? And castle made finals... yeah crazy story lol Nevertheless castle doesn’t have a show like 2016 and they’re not going to GN, just a friendly reminder Fishers wasn't that far ahead of the pack I mentioned too, you know. The only reason why I excluded them was because the gap was fairly large enough to keep them ahead... but don't be surprised if they drop to the low teen's. However, the inverse could also be true and Fishers get significantly better to the point of climbing into the higher single digit range (7-9ish). Fishers had a similar arc last year. Here's some major questions to answer if you will on the ISSMA bands: 1. Center Grove was literally near-ish bottom of the barrel of the pack, but scored really well GE-wise consistently. They are getting hosed MAJOR time in Music Ens.- In fact, that's why they were so far down at ISSMA. Is the show enough at this point to get them in, especially with their strength in GE? 2. Castle was bottom of the barrel in Music performance and GE. There's enough on that side to get them into finals, but enough to be a lock? I'm not quite sure. 3. Fishers, same exact story, except Music GE scores were good. Can they get clean enough to get that lock? 4. Plainfield's strength largely comes from Music GE- They tail Carmel barely. Performance scores are low. Same story as Fishers- clean enough? 5. Lawrence Township and Ben Davis were top scorers in music performance. Ben Davis scored well visually too. However, GE scores are bottom of barrel. Can they squeeze just enough to get into consideration for finals? I am really interested in seeing how BOA sees Center Grove overall. My guess is they'll get hosed across the board in performance captions but score well enough in GE to get in. If Center Grove can score well enough (as in beyond 11th as a rough, rough estimate) in Music performance, that will be a major, major boost in their GN Finals chances and certainly would be very, very close to beating out Park Vista/Union/whoever is in there pack.
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Post by thewho on Oct 21, 2019 13:05:10 GMT -6
All the hype around Plainfield is amazing, but is their show going to score well on BOA sheets? Also, I am not super well informed on the differences between ISSMA and BOA judging, so just put this aside if they are virtually equivalent. I obviously have not seen their show yet. 😅 Plainfield absolutely has the show to get them to finals. Compared to last year, Plainfield took a pretty sizable step forward musically. 2018 was just awesome all around, but repeating reprisals of a Sam Smith song (again, killer arrangements) isn't quite the way into the music GE judges' hearts. This time around, they've gotten arrangements and music that really show off how talented the band is. We've seen some flashes in 2018, but there's a much more complex and demanding arrangement that the band is meeting with the 2018 intensity. Plainfield, however, lost some of the visual prowess they had last year. They don't quite span the field as much as they did last year, instead opting for a tiny bit of side 2 and mostly side 1. I think the show concept is a little weaker overall compared to 2018, but the music growth by far overpowers that minor regression. Plainfield absolutely is deserving of Indy Super finals consideration. I don't think they're quite a lock, per se, but they have a much stronger case than many other bands do.
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Oct 21, 2019 13:19:53 GMT -6
Pretty fun listening to an announcer read Marian Catholic's show title.
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Post by paddy on Oct 21, 2019 13:42:12 GMT -6
All the hype around Plainfield is amazing, but is their show going to score well on BOA sheets? Also, I am not super well informed on the differences between ISSMA and BOA judging, so just put this aside if they are virtually equivalent. I obviously have not seen their show yet. 😅 ISSMA Scoring 20 points to MPI divided by 2 for 10 points out of 100 or 10% 20 points to MPE multiplies by 1.25 for 25 points out of 100 or 25% 20 points to VPI and VPE that are then averaged 20 points out of 100 or 20% 20 points to MGE multiplies by 1.25 for 25 points out of 100 or 25% 20 points to VGE for 20 points out of 100 or 20% So by %... Music Performance is 35% Visual Performance is 20% General Effect is 45% or another way Music Performance and GE is 60% Visual Performance and GE is 40% BOA Scoring 20 points to Music (MPI and MPE averaged) or 20% 20 points to Visual (VPI and VPE averaged) or 20% 40 points to Music GE (2 judges score out of 20 and then are added together) or 40% 20 points to Visual GE or 20% So by %... Music Performance is 20% Visual Performance is 20% General Effect is 60% or another way Music Performance and GE is 60% Visual Performance and GE is 40%
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Oct 21, 2019 13:51:10 GMT -6
ISSMA Scoring [...] Music Performance is 35% Visual Performance is 20% General Effect is 45% [...] BOA Scoring [...] Music Performance is 20% Visual Performance is 20% General Effect is 60% Thanks! So pretty much, they are the same, except ISSMA is much more complex? Well it appears based on paddy's explanation that music execution counts for more, and G.E. counts for less, in ISSMA than in BOA.
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Post by twhsalumniparent on Oct 21, 2019 14:09:40 GMT -6
Thanks! So pretty much, they are the same, except ISSMA is much more complex? Well it appears based on paddy's explanation that music execution counts for more, and G.E. counts for less, in ISSMA than in BOA. Specifically MGE, as VGE is 20% in both.
With that in mind, is there just 1 MGE judge vs 2 for BOA?
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Oct 21, 2019 14:12:14 GMT -6
All the hype around Plainfield is amazing, but is their show going to score well on BOA sheets? [...] I obviously have not seen their show yet. 😅 Plainfield absolutely has the show to get them to finals. Compared to last year, Plainfield took a pretty sizable step forward musically. 2018 was just awesome all around, but repeating reprisals of a Sam Smith song (again, killer arrangements) isn't quite the way into the music GE judges' hearts. This time around, they've gotten arrangements and music that really show off how talented the band is. We've seen some flashes in 2018, but there's a much more complex and demanding arrangement that the band is meeting with the 2018 intensity. Plainfield, however, lost some of the visual prowess they had last year. They don't quite span the field as much as they did last year, instead opting for a tiny bit of side 2 and mostly side 1. I think the show concept is a little weaker overall compared to 2018, but the music growth by far overpowers that minor regression. Plainfield absolutely is deserving of Indy Super finals consideration. I don't think they're quite a lock, per se, but they have a much stronger case than many other bands do. If Celine Dion was good enough to win Hebron best music in Finals (in both performance and g.e.) and first place overall in Semis in the 2016 Grand Nationals, then why not Sam Smith?
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Post by thewho on Oct 21, 2019 14:30:28 GMT -6
Plainfield absolutely has the show to get them to finals. Compared to last year, Plainfield took a pretty sizable step forward musically. 2018 was just awesome all around, but repeating reprisals of a Sam Smith song (again, killer arrangements) isn't quite the way into the music GE judges' hearts. This time around, they've gotten arrangements and music that really show off how talented the band is. We've seen some flashes in 2018, but there's a much more complex and demanding arrangement that the band is meeting with the 2018 intensity. Plainfield, however, lost some of the visual prowess they had last year. They don't quite span the field as much as they did last year, instead opting for a tiny bit of side 2 and mostly side 1. I think the show concept is a little weaker overall compared to 2018, but the music growth by far overpowers that minor regression. Plainfield absolutely is deserving of Indy Super finals consideration. I don't think they're quite a lock, per se, but they have a much stronger case than many other bands do. If Celine Dion was good enough to win Hebron best music in Finals (in both performance and g.e.) and first place overall in Semis in the 2016 Grand Nationals, then why not Sam Smith? It definitely can be (and now you got me wishing for it), but when the entire show consists of Sam Smith's song, variations, and reprisals, I'd imagine there'd be a few Music GE points lost. This isn't a knock on Plainfield at all, by the way, they arranged it ridiculously well. Just the variety of music this year is more pleasing for the judges.
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Post by paddy on Oct 21, 2019 14:34:39 GMT -6
Thanks! So pretty much, they are the same, except ISSMA is much more complex? Well it appears based on paddy's explanation that music execution counts for more, and G.E. counts for less, in ISSMA than in BOA. Yes, music execution (particularly ensemble) counts for more and GE counts for less. With that said, I have converted a number of contests (Last year ISSMA state A and B class) and the placings rarely change, but ISSMA scores tend be lower.
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Post by paddy on Oct 21, 2019 14:37:15 GMT -6
Well it appears based on paddy's explanation that music execution counts for more, and G.E. counts for less, in ISSMA than in BOA. Specifically MGE, as VGE is 20% in both.
With that in mind, is there just 1 MGE judge vs 2 for BOA?
Yes. ISSMA Judges: Music Ind Music Ens Music Effect Vis Effect Vis Ind Vis Ens BOA Judges Music Ind Music Ens Music Effect 1 Music Effect 2 Vis Effect Vis Ind Vis Ens
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