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Post by bigtrombone on Aug 4, 2020 13:53:38 GMT -6
Minnesota will be moving football to the Spring. Not sure what happens with marching band events, but this might be the nail in the coffin for Youth In Music.
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Post by paddy on Aug 4, 2020 15:15:37 GMT -6
Minnesota will be moving football to the Spring. Not sure what happens with marching band events, but this might be the nail in the coffin for Youth In Music. Which 4 weeks of the year are spring in Minnesota?
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Post by hewhowaits on Aug 4, 2020 15:42:06 GMT -6
Minnesota will be moving football to the Spring. Not sure what happens with marching band events, but this might be the nail in the coffin for Youth In Music. Which 4 weeks of the year are spring in Minnesota? Mother's Day through early June.
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Post by marimba11 on Aug 5, 2020 7:16:32 GMT -6
I honestly do not see marching band commencing (at least formally with competitions) in the spring. I think bands will probably just skip right to concert band in full swing as well as maybe pep bands in the stands for games. I could see bands getting out on the field doing short programs that don't require a lot of rehearsal time in big football states like Texas but they don't look like they're budging from the fall yet.
I hate to be doom and gloom but I really think it will be difficult to get back into the swing of things if some programs truly take a year off. I think we could see declining numbers / quality ect.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Aug 5, 2020 13:00:30 GMT -6
I honestly do not see marching band commencing (at least formally with competitions) in the spring. I think bands will probably just skip right to concert band in full swing as well as maybe pep bands in the stands for games. I could see bands getting out on the field doing short programs that don't require a lot of rehearsal time in big football states like Texas but they don't look like they're budging from the fall yet. I hate to be doom and gloom but I really think it will be difficult to get back into the swing of things if some programs truly take a year off. I think we could see declining numbers / quality ect. We might very well see a decline but it won’t be forever.
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Post by drumcorpsgeek on Aug 5, 2020 15:19:51 GMT -6
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Post by marimba11 on Aug 5, 2020 17:27:15 GMT -6
I honestly do not see marching band commencing (at least formally with competitions) in the spring. I think bands will probably just skip right to concert band in full swing as well as maybe pep bands in the stands for games. I could see bands getting out on the field doing short programs that don't require a lot of rehearsal time in big football states like Texas but they don't look like they're budging from the fall yet. I hate to be doom and gloom but I really think it will be difficult to get back into the swing of things if some programs truly take a year off. I think we could see declining numbers / quality ect. We might very well see a decline but it won’t be forever. Of course I agree. But a dip none the less and just a shame for so many students who have worked SO hard to build their programs.
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Post by Subito Fortissimo on Aug 5, 2020 20:10:38 GMT -6
The dip is going to happen. We'll see the affects of the canceled season for the next 3-ish years. But that should be the extent of it since feeder programs should continue to replenish numbers at usual levels going forward. This year's freshmen class will have the most trouble with missing out on a competitive season and losing students who may have done band normally. But once that class graduates it should be business as usual.
This is of course assuming the 2021 season can happen without any disruption, but lets just have one doom and gloom scenario at a time.
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Post by marimba11 on Aug 6, 2020 8:01:24 GMT -6
The dip is going to happen. We'll see the affects of the canceled season for the next 3-ish years. But that should be the extent of it since feeder programs should continue to replenish numbers at usual levels going forward. This year's freshmen class will have the most trouble with missing out on a competitive season and losing students who may have done band normally. But once that class graduates it should be business as usual. This is of course assuming the 2021 season can happen without any disruption, but lets just have one doom and gloom scenario at a time. Agreed. Hoping programs can make the most of it and persevere. We shall see.
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Post by paddy on Aug 6, 2020 9:12:39 GMT -6
Good programs with good cultures (and the culture thing is probably more important) will survive this situation with little impact to their program quality.
I'm hearing rumors that a perennial Indiana contender has kids dropping band by the dozens since the competitive season was canceled.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Aug 6, 2020 11:54:50 GMT -6
Good programs with good cultures (and the culture thing is probably more important) will survive this situation with little impact to their program quality. I'm hearing rumors that a perennial Indiana contender has kids dropping band by the dozens since the competitive season was canceled. I agree. Culture is everything and I believe bands with a great culture will continue bringing in the younger musicians, even if the Seniors all quit this year.
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Post by paddy on Aug 6, 2020 14:45:36 GMT -6
Not seniors quitting.
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Post by bandfan4 on Aug 6, 2020 18:13:00 GMT -6
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Post by marimba11 on Aug 6, 2020 19:14:19 GMT -6
Culture is extremely important but a strong culture won’t be enough for all. Mason 2017 is a great example of loss of culture and it hurt.
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Post by paddy on Aug 7, 2020 5:09:08 GMT -6
Culture is extremely important but a strong culture won’t be enough for all. Mason 2017 is a great example of loss of culture and it hurt. This makes no sense. You say culture isn’t enough to keep a program intact and use an example where a band lost their culture and things took a turn for the worse. That reinforces my point about the importance of culture.
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Post by paddy on Aug 7, 2020 5:28:03 GMT -6
Just so I am clear what I am talking about...
If kids buy in to what you do because you are successful that isn’t culture. If kids buy in to what you do and that produces success, that is culture.
We all know situations (sports, band, business) where people say, “I’m not sure I like some of things they do, but they are successful so they must be doing something right.” That is one of the big warning signs that you have a culture problem.
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Post by marimba11 on Aug 7, 2020 7:47:15 GMT -6
Just so I am clear what I am talking about... If kids buy in to what you do because you are successful that isn’t culture. If kids buy in to what you do and that produces success, that is culture. We all know situations (sports, band, business) where people say, “I’m not sure I like some of things they do, but they are successful so they must be doing something right.” That is one of the big warning signs that you have a culture problem. The legendary Bass family was ousted from Mason, and replaced with something different. That culture didn't work with Green as we all know. Then they went with Sleppy and things resumed almost as normal. The bass family "created the culture" and obviously a good one because they saw great success. The 2017 exodus at Mason was because the students guessed it wouldn't be the same culture. Those students made a choice and turned out they were right, it was worse. The culture set up by Green was obviously different and it didn't work as evidenced by their drop and the fact he was demoted the next year.
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Post by paddy on Aug 7, 2020 8:29:03 GMT -6
Just so I am clear what I am talking about... If kids buy in to what you do because you are successful that isn’t culture. If kids buy in to what you do and that produces success, that is culture. We all know situations (sports, band, business) where people say, “I’m not sure I like some of things they do, but they are successful so they must be doing something right.” That is one of the big warning signs that you have a culture problem. The legendary Bass family was ousted from Mason, and replaced with something different. That culture didn't work with Green as we all know. Then they went with Sleppy and things resumed almost as normal. The bass family "created the culture" and obviously a good one because they saw great success. The 2017 exodus at Mason was because the students guessed it wouldn't be the same culture. Those students made a choice and turned out they were right, it was worse. The culture set up by Green was obviously different and it didn't work as evidenced by their drop and the fact he was demoted the next year. I don't why you tried to argue that good culture isn't enough and then keep providing examples that affirm my point.
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Post by hewhowaits on Aug 7, 2020 8:29:46 GMT -6
The biggest problem for Mason in 2017 was that NONE of the previous MB staff was allowed by the new leadership to participate (other than the Basses, all the teachers remained in their teaching positions at the schools). THAT is what drove away many of the rising seniors (and a number of rising juniors as well).
In 2018, the old staff (familiar to the students) was back in place and we saw a rapid return to GN Finalist caliber.
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Post by paddy on Aug 7, 2020 8:36:18 GMT -6
The biggest problem for Mason in 2017 was that NONE of the previous MB staff was allowed by the new leadership to participate (other than the Basses, all the teachers remained in their teaching positions at the schools). THAT is what drove away many of the rising seniors (and a number of rising juniors as well). In 2018, the old staff (familiar to the students) was back in place and we saw a rapid return to GN Finalist caliber. A perfect example of someone outside the situation not understanding how things work and messing up the culture. Again, a good culture overcomes bumps in the road.
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Post by marimba11 on Aug 7, 2020 11:34:01 GMT -6
The legendary Bass family was ousted from Mason, and replaced with something different. That culture didn't work with Green as we all know. Then they went with Sleppy and things resumed almost as normal. The bass family "created the culture" and obviously a good one because they saw great success. The 2017 exodus at Mason was because the students guessed it wouldn't be the same culture. Those students made a choice and turned out they were right, it was worse. The culture set up by Green was obviously different and it didn't work as evidenced by their drop and the fact he was demoted the next year. I don't why you tried to argue that good culture isn't enough and then keep providing examples that affirm my point. You’re incorrectly quoting me. I said it’s enough for most students, but there will always be a few (or in SOME cases many) who will want to compete or (compete at a GN finalist level) or nothing at all.
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Post by paddy on Aug 7, 2020 12:57:14 GMT -6
I don't why you tried to argue that good culture isn't enough and then keep providing examples that affirm my point. You’re incorrectly quoting me. I said it’s enough for most students, but there will always be a few (or in SOME cases many) who will want to compete or (compete at a GN finalist level) or nothing at all. 1. I am not talking about kids I am talking about the continuation of good programs. 2. If they way you get people to buy in is to promise success you have a bad culture. 3. I am not misquoting you. You keep giving examples of bad culture.
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Post by marimba11 on Aug 7, 2020 18:04:48 GMT -6
You’re incorrectly quoting me. I said it’s enough for most students, but there will always be a few (or in SOME cases many) who will want to compete or (compete at a GN finalist level) or nothing at all. 1. I am not talking about kids I am talking about the continuation of good programs. 2. If they way you get people to buy in is to promise success you have a bad culture. 3. I am not misquoting you. You keep giving examples of bad culture. Yes... you are correct. Sorry it’s been a long week! LOL Yes mason lost their culture and seniors fled. True. And we’re talking about programs with good culture and the same staff ect loosing kids because of the lack of competition. Yes I agree. I will say however many programs have build their “culture” on competitions. Here is mason again, they built their program on going to GN every year and used that as a catalyst to improve their program. Much like Marian did too. Greg Bim I think even says BOA is a big part of the programs success/ culture. So yes a band culture is independent of the competitive segment and kids should want to join reguardless of who they compete against or where they compete against. Although as high school band has evolved the competitive segment has become more “fun”, and I think many programs rely on the pacing of the competitive season to structure their narrative. If you’re taking a test but it isn’t graded is it even worth doing? Some will say yes and it looks like some will say no.
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Post by dallasman on Aug 13, 2020 1:25:58 GMT -6
I will definitely take the credit. Thank you! It would have saved everyone time, which would have been the correct thing to do. I understand why they did not do it way back then, however, the end result was inevitable. Personally, I would hold the event now because the coronavirus is simply not as bad as they say. Now the question is whether or not BOA can survive a year without its big money making items. If I were them at this point, I would reinstate Grand Nationals only for this year & make every audience member, weird band parent, normal band parent, director, audience member, & student sign a waiver. But this isn't a Biff-run alternate 1985 reality, so they still wasted everyone's time by not acting sooner. Nothing. Four months ago it would absolutely not have been the correct thing to do, as he said it would.
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Post by Allohak on Aug 13, 2020 3:58:13 GMT -6
the coronavirus is simply not as bad as they say. ...try again, with more basis in reality.
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Post by Samuel Culper on Aug 13, 2020 12:24:14 GMT -6
I will definitely take the credit. Thank you! It would have saved everyone time, which would have been the correct thing to do. I understand why they did not do it way back then, however, the end result was inevitable. Personally, I would hold the event now because the coronavirus is simply not as bad as they say. Now the question is whether or not BOA can survive a year without its big money making items. If I were them at this point, I would reinstate Grand Nationals only for this year & make every audience member, weird band parent, normal band parent, director, audience member, & student sign a waiver. But this isn't a Biff-run alternate 1985 reality, so they still wasted everyone's time by not acting sooner. Nothing. Four months ago it would absolutely not have been the correct thing to do, as he said it would. Please explain EXACTLY what the benefit of cancelling months ago would have been.
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Post by dallasman on Aug 13, 2020 14:41:46 GMT -6
BOA doesn't immediately benefit by doing this, but they could have taken a bullet for the hundreds of bands who plan their fall seasons around their events. At the same time, now I think that they made the wrong call by canceling their biggest event. I don't think it's the right call -- I simply said that they were going to cave at some point. Nothing short of a vaccine in July could have saved the season. The event likely could have been held somewhere with a number of bands. Perhaps much like how the college football season will unfold. It would not be perfect, but it would happen. Bold decisions are not something BOA is very good at making IMO. Your 2020 BOA Grand National Champion? Western Brown. I will definitely take the credit. Thank you! It would have saved everyone time, which would have been the correct thing to do. I understand why they did not do it way back then, however, the end result was inevitable. Personally, I would hold the event now because the coronavirus is simply not as bad as they say. Now the question is whether or not BOA can survive a year without its big money making items. If I were them at this point, I would reinstate Grand Nationals only for this year & make every audience member, weird band parent, normal band parent, director, audience member, & student sign a waiver. But this isn't a Biff-run alternate 1985 reality, so they still wasted everyone's time by not acting sooner. Please explain EXACTLY what the benefit of cancelling months ago would have been.
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