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Post by N.E. Brigand on Nov 17, 2019 23:38:51 GMT -6
Holy moly. James Madison went from 41st in prelims to 29th in semis. They must've had a much better run. Also really impressive that they got to Semis on their 2nd trip to Grand Nats. That would make at least two bands this year who reached Semifinals in their second appearance at Grand Nationals. |
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Nov 18, 2019 0:31:15 GMT -6
Ok... and done. Expecting mixed feedback. Yet again: I have not seen all these bands... a lot are based off of what I’ve heard / seen score wise. I haven't seen them all either, but I think the order for the Ohio bands will be more like this:
Scoring 90 or better:
--William Mason [91.3]
Scoring 85 or better: --Centerville [87.95]
Scoring 80 or better:
--Lakota West [84.55]
Scoring 75 or better:
--Miamisburg [86.2]
--Milford [78.15]
Scoring 70 or better: --Forest Hills [84.5]
--Norton [76.95]
--Bellbrook [70.30]
Scoring 65 or better: --Archbishop Alter [73.95]
--Carroll [70.225] --Lebanon [69.6] --Walter E. Stebbins [70.35]
Scoring 60 or better: --Wilmington [62.65]
--Fairborn [63.45] --Indian Hill [69.725]
--La Salle [59.05]
--Butler [58.65]
--Hamilton [66.7]
--Milton Union [67.8]
--Tippecanoe [65.0]
Scoring 55 or better:
--Logan Elm [62.8]
--Piqua [58.45]
--East Clinton [58.75] --Loveland [66.975]
--Avon [66.1]
--Bishop Fenwick [52.8]
--Ada [61.9]
--Warren Local [61.975]
--Carlisle [61.225]
The one I'm really curious about is Forest Hills, the combined Turpin-Anderson band: they outscored Miamisburg and Milford at MSBA, so they might do so here also.
Just for fun, I went and plugged the actual Prelims scores into the list above. Of 29 Ohio bands, I successfully predicted the scoring floor for 26 of them; the three I got wrong are in bold. And the seven bands I listed as the best are the ones that made it to Semifinals. I don't claim that result to be the least bit impressive. What stands out to me is how many bands did notably better than I had predicted. Either the judges were soft or I'm getting tougher on bands as I age. |
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Post by srv1084 on Nov 18, 2019 1:02:33 GMT -6
Agreed. From the livestream, I am completely baffled as to how Madison was not in the top 25 and Bassett was not in semi-finals. I can name a few bands that got in that should not have. At what point will BOA stop rewarding bands simply for their size?1993? 🤔😉 Mmmhmm. 21 winds against what... 300 winds? |
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Post by oboe12 on Nov 18, 2019 7:39:02 GMT -6
Agreed. From the livestream, I am completely baffled as to how Madison was not in the top 25 and Bassett was not in semi-finals. I can name a few bands that got in that should not have. At what point will BOA stop rewarding bands simply for their size? Lol you're right but your conclusion is wrong. I was surprised on both bands. Bassett has a great run in prelims. It’s just the nature of the beast in the name of “effect.” Undeniable means undeniable in the eyes of the judges Ironically (or perhaps coincidentally--call me Alanis Morissette) Bassett's GE score is what totally killed them at GN, whereas the GE judges are pretty much the only reason they made finals at ETSU at all. Their individual scores were (perhaps rightly) beneath their usual standard in visual individual at both ETSU and Liberty, while at GN, visual individual was the sub caption they placed the highest in! I won't lie... I thought Madison had a pretty good chance at top 22. To see them 41st on the prelims sheets (and placing behind Bassett, who they had beaten all year???) was interesting to me. Bassett was very good in prelims, but I found it strange that they were good enough to beat Madison and not good enough to make it in on score. Very strange. I'm glad Madison ended up 29th in semi-finals, proving they were totally deserving of being in on score. Also - biggest ? of the weekend for me is Windermere. I saw them in the convention center on Thursday and... well, they were really, really good. |
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Post by dbalash on Nov 18, 2019 8:04:13 GMT -6
Imagine if Kevin broke... the chaos. I wonder what would happen if for say, Kevin fell off his shelf? Just imagining the panic that would endear LOL! It's been broken several times. |
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Post by secret on Nov 18, 2019 11:30:05 GMT -6
Agreed. From the livestream, I am completely baffled as to how Madison was not in the top 25 and Bassett was not in semi-finals. I can name a few bands that got in that should not have. At what point will BOA stop rewarding bands simply for their size? Lol you're right but your conclusion is wrong. I was surprised on both bands. Bassett has a great run in prelims. It’s just the nature of the beast in the name of “effect.” Undeniable means undeniable in the eyes of the judges How can you say that the size of a band has no impact on the scoring? Just look at Bourbon County--they were unbelievably good, undeniable if you will, yet to the judges they were not even a top 30 band at this show. Whether it is outwardly stated or not, it's not a secret that Bands of America rewards size. |
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Post by Allohak on Nov 18, 2019 11:53:27 GMT -6
Lol you're right but your conclusion is wrong. I was surprised on both bands. Bassett has a great run in prelims. It’s just the nature of the beast in the name of “effect.” Undeniable means undeniable in the eyes of the judges How can you say that the size of a band has no impact on the scoring? Just look at Bourbon County--they were unbelievably good, undeniable if you will, yet to the judges they were not even a top 30 band at this show. Whether it is outwardly stated or not, it's not a secret that Bands of America rewards size. Bourbon was 31st in prelims, well ahead of many groups of significantly larger size (including semifinals regulars like Center Grove). I thought they should have made it on score, but they got their second (and third) performance either way. |
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Post by secret on Nov 18, 2019 12:30:21 GMT -6
How can you say that the size of a band has no impact on the scoring? Just look at Bourbon County--they were unbelievably good, undeniable if you will, yet to the judges they were not even a top 30 band at this show. Whether it is outwardly stated or not, it's not a secret that Bands of America rewards size. Bourbon was 31st in prelims, well ahead of many groups of significantly larger size (including semifinals regulars like Center Grove). I thought they should have made it on score, but they got their second (and third) performance either way. Yes, but imo their performance level was equivalent to a top 22 band at this show. If they had 100 more members, I'm confident that's where they would have been. |
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Post by Allohak on Nov 18, 2019 13:04:30 GMT -6
Bourbon was 31st in prelims, well ahead of many groups of significantly larger size (including semifinals regulars like Center Grove). I thought they should have made it on score, but they got their second (and third) performance either way. Yes, but imo their performance level was equivalent to a top 22 band at this show. If they had 100 more members, I'm confident that's where they would have been. If they had 100 more members, their design style would likely be much different, too. Bigger bands are able to build shows with more going on and use the full field a lot easier than a smaller group (well, except Tarpon). A group like Bourbon is already more similar to AA and AAA groups than they are to their competition in A. If they were any bigger, they could be doing things like we see from Fishers (to pull a random AAAA name). |
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Nov 18, 2019 13:15:58 GMT -6
Lol you're right but your conclusion is wrong. I was surprised on both bands. Bassett has a great run in prelims. It’s just the nature of the beast in the name of “effect.” Undeniable means undeniable in the eyes of the judges How can you say that the size of a band has no impact on the scoring? Just look at Bourbon County--they were unbelievably good, undeniable if you will, yet to the judges they were not even a top 30 band at this show. Whether it is outwardly stated or not, it's not a secret that Bands of America rewards size. I think size absolutely impacts scoring, and I think it should. At least in terms of general effect, aren't bigger bands usually better than smaller bands?
For a band of 75 to generate as much effect as a band of 225, each member in the small band would have to be three times as good as each member in the large band, basically.
I once attended a competition where I thought that, pound for pound, a band with fewer than 30 members was the most musically talented bunch on the field -- though they couldn't march well to save their lives. And that was in a field of 30+ bands with several groups that had more than 200 members. But overall they finished closer to the bottom of the field than to the top, and even had their feet been much stronger, I don't see any way they would have even cracked the top ten. They were the best musicians. But it would be nearly impossible to be so much better as to generate enough effect.
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 18, 2019 18:15:36 GMT -6
How can you say that the size of a band has no impact on the scoring? Just look at Bourbon County--they were unbelievably good, undeniable if you will, yet to the judges they were not even a top 30 band at this show. Whether it is outwardly stated or not, it's not a secret that Bands of America rewards size. I think size absolutely impacts scoring, and I think it should. At least in terms of general effect, aren't bigger bands usually better than smaller bands?
For a band of 75 to generate as much effect as a band of 225, each member in the small band would have to be three times as good as each member in the large band, basically.
I once attended a competition where I thought that, pound for pound, a band with fewer than 30 members was the most musically talented bunch on the field -- though they couldn't march well to save their lives. And that was in a field of 30+ bands with several groups that had more than 200 members. But overall they finished closer to the bottom of the field than to the top, and even had their feet been much stronger, I don't see any way they would have even cracked the top ten. They were the best musicians. But it would be nearly impossible to be so much better as to generate enough effect.
Yes this is absolutely what I mean when I said “undeniable effect.” That the effect created by a larger band it’s usually better than a band half its size. There was some band from Utah I watched last week that also pound for pound they were just amazing marchers and musicians but wouldn’t hold up against say American fork. That is why there are individual judges to catch things like that but I’d say larger bands can do more with their sound and numbers. But small bands can too you just have to be tasteful about it |
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Post by srv1084 on Nov 18, 2019 19:56:11 GMT -6
Bourbon was 31st in prelims, well ahead of many groups of significantly larger size (including semifinals regulars like Center Grove). I thought they should have made it on score, but they got their second (and third) performance either way. Yes, but imo their performance level was equivalent to a top 22 band at this show. If they had 100 more members, I'm confident that's where they would have been. I don't know that I agree with this. They were terrific, yes, but even their performance numbers were each 31st place in semis (which I think feels about right). I'd imagine the best comparison you can make between bands in terms of talent level would be individual performance scores, and those were not top 30. And Bourbon is definitely not a small band anymore. I think a better example would be the Utah regional marimba11 mentioned. Farmington (the smallest band in finals competition with roughly 40 winds) finished prelims with the highest scores in MPI and VPI. Yes, even higher than American Fork. Ensemble scores were much lower, and GE was middle of the road. Having the strongest individuals doesn't always mean having the strongest band. |
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 19, 2019 9:16:25 GMT -6
Yes, but imo their performance level was equivalent to a top 22 band at this show. If they had 100 more members, I'm confident that's where they would have been. I don't know that I agree with this. They were terrific, yes, but even their performance numbers were each 31st place in semis (which I think feels about right). I'd imagine the best comparison you can make between bands in terms of talent level would be individual performance scores, and those were not top 30. And Bourbon is definitely not a small band anymore. I think a better example would be the Utah regional marimba11 mentioned. Farmington (the smallest band in finals competition with roughly 40 winds) finished prelims with the highest scores in MPI and VPI. Yes, even higher than American Fork. Ensemble scores were much lower, and GE was middle of the road. Having the strongest individuals doesn't always mean having the strongest band. Right! That’s just how the rules seem to work for how we judge the best bands. It is what it is |
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Nov 21, 2019 1:29:01 GMT -6
Lol you're right but your conclusion is wrong. I was surprised on both bands. Bassett has a great run in prelims. It’s just the nature of the beast in the name of “effect.” Undeniable means undeniable in the eyes of the judges Ironically (or perhaps coincidentally--call me Alanis Morissette) Bassett's GE score is what totally killed them at GN, whereas the GE judges are pretty much the only reason they made finals at ETSU at all. Their individual scores were (perhaps rightly) beneath their usual standard in visual individual at both ETSU and Liberty, while at GN, visual individual was the sub caption they placed the highest in! I have to be honest––I was not shocked to see Bassett miss semifinals. Their performance quality was wonderful and their training was evident, but the design felt SO dated. I almost enjoyed it for its nostalgia; it felt like a show from 2004. But it seemed totally on brand for them, at least compared to their last show that went to GN (was that 2017? the golf show?). I think they're close to figuring out their niche of show design... I just hope they're able to find a balance between competitive success and their design aesthetic. |
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Post by oboe12 on Nov 21, 2019 8:04:20 GMT -6
Ironically (or perhaps coincidentally--call me Alanis Morissette) Bassett's GE score is what totally killed them at GN, whereas the GE judges are pretty much the only reason they made finals at ETSU at all. Their individual scores were (perhaps rightly) beneath their usual standard in visual individual at both ETSU and Liberty, while at GN, visual individual was the sub caption they placed the highest in! I have to be honest––I was not shocked to see Bassett miss semifinals. Their performance quality was wonderful and their training was evident, but the design felt SO dated. I almost enjoyed it for its nostalgia; it felt like a show from 2004. But it seemed totally on brand for them, at least compared to their last show that went to GN (was that 2017? the golf show?). I think they're close to figuring out their niche of show design... I just hope they're able to find a balance between competitive success and their design aesthetic. IMO all of their shows since 2016 have been very "on brand." I have loved this era of Bassett's programs, though - I think it's because I love that era of BOA. The packages show was just so sweet and delicate, the golf show came together really nicely (I don't really think it's any better designed though), the numbers show was fun, and I really really loved this year's show. It might be my favorite in the history of the program. It's fun & probably the most well-performed of any that they've taken to Grand Nats. Part of me hopes that they will utilize a former member of their staff in the design process, especially now that he just co-designed a national championship show. |
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 21, 2019 14:05:08 GMT -6
I have to be honest––I was not shocked to see Bassett miss semifinals. Their performance quality was wonderful and their training was evident, but the design felt SO dated. I almost enjoyed it for its nostalgia; it felt like a show from 2004. But it seemed totally on brand for them, at least compared to their last show that went to GN (was that 2017? the golf show?). I think they're close to figuring out their niche of show design... I just hope they're able to find a balance between competitive success and their design aesthetic. IMO all of their shows since 2016 have been very "on brand." I have loved this era of Bassett's programs, though - I think it's because I love that era of BOA. The packages show was just so sweet and delicate, the golf show came together really nicely (I don't really think it's any better designed though), the numbers show was fun, and I really really loved this year's show. It might be my favorite in the history of the program. It's fun & probably the most well-performed of any that they've taken to Grand Nats. Part of me hopes that they will utilize a former member of their staff in the design process, especially now that he just co-designed a national championship show. Ironically I think the numbers show was my favorite of their last couple. It was so well performed and thematically on point. I saw it at Gaffney and honestly thought they could have broken into the top 5 that night. |
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Post by dhs on Nov 21, 2019 17:01:21 GMT -6
Absolute craziness on James Madison. I have no idea how they weren't in on score. Also, I believe Bassett set a record this year (albeit not a great one). As far as I know of, no other band has attended three BOA events and scored worse in each one (81.3 at ETSU, 80.05 at Lynchburg, and 78.35 at GN). Call me a homer, but I am of the very firm opinion that both of these bands should have been in. Maybe it's because Bassett performed after Carmel and Madison went on second in the morning, but I believe they definitely belonged in. Regardless, awesome job to the Virginia bands (including Rock Ridge!!) and hopefully we'll have a better showing next time. I have seen every Madison show this year, and three of Bassetts. I did not see Bassett’s at GN. I think Madison was a bit intimidated by the stadium and off from the performance time. I am not sure if the grading is lower early, but in the Prelims, Madison was 10 points behind their Lynchburg prelims. In the semis, in spite of a god aweful performance time, with the kids having about 8 hours of sleep total over 3 days, the band scored several points higher. The music was off; tired. Had they performed as they had been, they would have been 4-5 points higher. Of course I am biased... |
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Post by LeanderMomma on Nov 27, 2019 8:13:36 GMT -6
Here’s a fantastic video Music For All just put out of the finalists bands. Lots of great stuff here!
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Post by OldSchoolTrumpet on Nov 27, 2019 9:00:12 GMT -6
Here’s a fantastic video Music For All just put out of the finalists bands. Lots of great stuff here! Nice video. Maybe the best one they've done. I really liked seeing the Homestead and The Woodlands kids clowning around. |
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Post by TeamIndiana on Nov 27, 2019 13:53:45 GMT -6
Here’s a fantastic video Music For All just put out of the finalists bands. Lots of great stuff here! I love these videos that they release after finals. It is great hearing about the students experiences and their prospective of their shows. There is a lot that happens behind the scenes that we don't get to see & it is fun getting a glimpse of it! Thanks for sharing. |
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Post by verysaxy on Nov 28, 2019 6:53:36 GMT -6
Good luck to the Blue Springs Golden Regiment and Ronald Reagan in the Macy’s Parade today! Have fun!
(Sorry if I missed any other BOA bands but I don’t think I did)
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Post by oboe12 on Nov 28, 2019 8:28:16 GMT -6
Also good luck to Madison Central H.S., KY!
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Post by oboe12 on Nov 28, 2019 9:12:21 GMT -6
AMAZING job, Reagan! I played in Macy's when I was in college and that is NOT a good stage to sound good on. Major congrats for doing something great with the spotlight - hopefully everyone at home will know, like us, that you're maybe the best band in the country this year.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 8:25:49 GMT -6
I have visited the future. Your 2019 GN Finalists are (not in order, I don't want to spoil it completely): Avon H.S., IN Carmel H.S., IN Claudia Taylor Johnson H.S., TX Hebron H.S., TX Leander H.S., TX The Woodlands H.S., TX Vandegrift H.S., TX William Mason H.S., OH Park Vista H.S., FL Round Rock H.S., TX Union H.S., OK Harrison H.S., GA not bad now that it’s almost a year later |
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Post by Allohak on Mar 1, 2020 5:41:11 GMT -6
Holy thread necro, Batman!
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