|
Post by 70sguardchick on Sept 28, 2020 14:10:28 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by paddy on Sept 28, 2020 14:53:42 GMT -6
This makes sense due to their competition model and ticket pricing.
I know there are some state organizations working on in-person competition models, but they are less dependent on inter-state, overnight travel and don't charge as much for tickets.
|
|
|
Post by Marimbology on Sept 28, 2020 15:55:14 GMT -6
The Question Now is with auditions, if life were normal, supposed to be starting in 2 ish months, will DCI once again meet the same fate.
|
|
|
Post by srv1084 on Sept 28, 2020 19:58:32 GMT -6
The Question Now is with auditions, if life were normal, supposed to be starting in 2 ish months, will DCI once again meet the same fate. Most independent auditions actually start right about now, at least in world class. At the very least they'll have intro camps around this time. I am making this prediction now: The Florida and Southern California circuits will perform in-person shows, but for the first time in the activity, they will explore outdoor shows.
|
|
|
Post by marimba11 on Sept 28, 2020 22:05:44 GMT -6
Absurd... everything objective about coronavirus is looking great.
|
|
|
Post by ohioguy2 on Sept 29, 2020 5:06:15 GMT -6
Absurd... everything objective about coronavirus is looking great. If you honestly think that within the next 6-7 months, colleges and universities (such as The University of Dayton) are going to let thousands of people from across the country congregate in one area, you have absolutely lost your mind. That is WGI is being forced to cancel, they cannot find any show sites willing to take on events.
|
|
|
Post by Allohak on Sept 29, 2020 5:46:51 GMT -6
Absurd... everything objective about coronavirus is looking great. ...no. Look outside your window, it is beyond clear you are wrong. Only 3 states have significantly slowed increases in the past week. As in cases are still on the rise EVERYWHERE. Let's not go here again, please.
|
|
|
Post by marimba11 on Sept 29, 2020 6:25:36 GMT -6
Absurd... everything objective about coronavirus is looking great. If you honestly think that within the next 6-7 months, colleges and universities (such as The University of Dayton) are going to let thousands of people from across the country congregate in one area, you have absolutely lost your mind. That is WGI is being forced to cancel, they cannot find any show sites willing to take on events. My university has gone back 100% capacity of 24,000 students and it isn’t Armageddon... not sure what you’re talking about 😂
|
|
|
Post by marimba11 on Sept 29, 2020 6:32:06 GMT -6
Absurd... everything objective about coronavirus is looking great. ...no. Look outside your window, it is beyond clear you are wrong. Only 3 states have significantly slowed increases in the past week. As in cases are still on the rise EVERYWHERE. Let's not go here again, please. Cases might be on the rise... but the only things that matter are deaths hospitalizations and ICU admissions. You hear of any overwhelmed hospitals in Texas anymore ...?🧐
|
|
|
Post by srv1084 on Sept 29, 2020 7:12:21 GMT -6
...no. Look outside your window, it is beyond clear you are wrong. Only 3 states have significantly slowed increases in the past week. As in cases are still on the rise EVERYWHERE. Let's not go here again, please. Cases might be on the rise... but the only things that matter are deaths hospitalizations and ICU admissions. You hear of any overwhelmed hospitals in Texas anymore ...?🧐 Desensitization is a real thing. Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it's not happening. 200,000 deaths mean nothing to some people, apparently. Also, math is cool. Cases on the rise will inevitably mean more deaths, even if a fraction of the total. So if the only things that matter to you are deaths, hospitalizations, and ICU admissions (frankly, I doubt any of these matter to you), wouldn't cases on the rise mean those are inevitably likely to go up? I swear, hearing some people try to rationalize is impressive. 2019 Flu: 26MM infected, 34k deaths - 0.1% rate Covid: 7MM infected, 200k deaths - 2.8% rate
|
|
|
Post by marimba11 on Sept 29, 2020 7:15:34 GMT -6
Cases might be on the rise... but the only things that matter are deaths hospitalizations and ICU admissions. You hear of any overwhelmed hospitals in Texas anymore ...?🧐 Desensitization is a real thing. Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it's not happening. 200,000 deaths mean nothing to some people, apparently. Also, math is cool. Cases on the rise will inevitably mean more deaths, even if a fraction of the total. So if the only things that matter to you are deaths, hospitalizations, and ICU admissions (frankly, I doubt any of these matter to you), wouldn't cases on the rise mean those are inevitably likely to go up? I swear, hearing some people try to rationalize is impressive. 2019 Flu: 26MM infected, 34k deaths - 0.1% rate Covid: 7MM infected, 200k deaths - 2.8% rate 200k death number is very suspect for many reasons. Come back to me at true end of the year and we’ll see the delta difference of how many people died in the USA compared to 2019 - I guarantee you the delta will Not be 200,000. It will be far less.
|
|
|
Post by jeremiah on Sept 29, 2020 7:53:50 GMT -6
Desensitization is a real thing. Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it's not happening. 200,000 deaths mean nothing to some people, apparently. Also, math is cool. Cases on the rise will inevitably mean more deaths, even if a fraction of the total. So if the only things that matter to you are deaths, hospitalizations, and ICU admissions (frankly, I doubt any of these matter to you), wouldn't cases on the rise mean those are inevitably likely to go up? I swear, hearing some people try to rationalize is impressive. 2019 Flu: 26MM infected, 34k deaths - 0.1% rate Covid: 7MM infected, 200k deaths - 2.8% rate 200k death number is very suspect for many reasons. Come back to me at true end of the year and we’ll see the delta difference of how many people died in the USA compared to 2019 - I guarantee you the delta will Not be 200,000. It will be far less. For someone who is clearly wrong, you are very confident. A quick Google search is all it takes. theconversation.com/up-to-204-691-extra-deaths-in-the-us-so-far-in-this-pandemic-year-143139
|
|
|
Post by marimba11 on Sept 29, 2020 11:53:27 GMT -6
And what about all the people who died from cancer, heart attacks, diabetes... and also had Covid 19. People don’t just die from flus. But anyway... who cares let’s say I’m wrong (even though I won’t be when we compares deltas at the end of the calendar year of ALL deaths). But it is really worth it when the real death rate is SO low 0-19: 99.997% 20-49: 99.98% 50-69: 99.5% 70+: 94.6% From the cdcs own webpage. t.co/9RRLgsBHta?amp=1
|
|
|
Post by 70sguardchick on Sept 29, 2020 13:40:35 GMT -6
I am beginning to regret starting this thread - can we take this elsewhere and get back to discussing marching arts of 2021?
|
|
|
Post by LeanderMomma on Sept 29, 2020 13:51:42 GMT -6
I am beginning to regret starting this thread - can we take this elsewhere and get back to discussing marching arts of 2021? Not your fault at all. Let’s hope this Covid takes a long walk off a short pier in the very near future so that we can get back to the business of LIVING our lives!
|
|
|
Post by Samuel Culper on Sept 29, 2020 13:57:53 GMT -6
And what about all the people who died from cancer, heart attacks, diabetes... and also had Covid 19. People don’t just die from flus. But anyway... who cares let’s say I’m wrong (even though I won’t be when we compares deltas at the end of the calendar year of ALL deaths). But it is really worth it when the real death rate is SO low 0-19: 99.997% 20-49: 99.98% 50-69: 99.5% 70+: 94.6% From the cdcs own webpage. t.co/9RRLgsBHta?amp=1Well, since you like the CDC website, take a look here: www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
|
|
|
Post by TeamIndiana on Sept 29, 2020 16:11:07 GMT -6
I am beginning to regret starting this thread - can we take this elsewhere and get back to discussing marching arts of 2021? Not your fault at all. Let’s hope this Covid takes a long walk off a short pier in the very near future so that we can get back to the business of LIVING our lives! I agree. If we are not back to "normal" next season, marching arts as we know it will not survive another season of nothings.
|
|
|
Post by boahistorybuff on Sept 29, 2020 17:58:36 GMT -6
I have followed BOA and MCBA every fall since I was in 8th grade, which was 1987. So this fall has certainly not felt like the fall I am accustomed to. Disappointing would be an understatement.
I have read several articles from notable scientists who follow infectious disease. This is my take.
While positive Covid Tests are up significantly in relation to deaths, that is because we are testing more. In the spring this country was flying blind because there was not enough tests. The key things to look at is the rate of new infections (usually on a 5 to 7 day running average) and the percentage of positive test results per number of those tested. When we have these two factors increasing significantly, there is a big problem. As of Sep 29th, much of the northeast and portions of the south are in better shape then they were in the spring or summer. Portions of the midwest, northern plains and northern Rockies however have trends that are very concerning; exponential growth in rate of new infections in a few states. I have also read that researchers are still looking into how long people remain immune once they get the virus with concern that reinfection may be possible with this virus. That would not make herd immunity very effective if indeed that is the case. Consensus seems to be that until there is a proven effective vaccine, aggressive testing and contact tracing on a national scale needs to be implemented. This includes having reliable tests where the results can be obtained in minutes rather than days. If either of these two things can not be achieved by mid/late 2021, I don't see a competitive season in 2021. The financial ramifications of this could very well mean the end of competitive circuits like US Bands and BOA/Music For All or even in an optimistic view a much scaled back competitive circuit by 2022.
|
|
|
Post by marimba11 on Sept 29, 2020 18:31:52 GMT -6
I am beginning to regret starting this thread - can we take this elsewhere and get back to discussing marching arts of 2021? I am not trying to derail your thread. But I don’t see how you can expect to have much a season in 2021 with the current restrictions/ cancelation policies. I said wgi canceling is absurd (which it is). And then everyone started saying how “I’ve lost my mind”, because I expressed the opposite opinion. So either Covid is really bad and we can’t have much of a season or Covid is dying down and we can go on with normal. Let me know if this analysis is off base.
|
|
|
Post by boahistorybuff on Sept 29, 2020 18:38:29 GMT -6
Again,
From notable epidemiologists;
Consensus seems to be that until there is a proven effective vaccine, aggressive testing and contact tracing on a national scale needs to be implemented. This includes having reliable tests where the results can be obtained in minutes rather than days. If either of these two things can not be achieved by mid/late 2021, I don't see a competitive season in 2021.
You want to isolate and contain the virus. Once the virus is contained, life can begin to start feeling more normal and not as much stuff will need to be canceled. Letting the virus run its course through a world where there is extensive global travel may take a few years, cost millions of lives and over extend health care systems to their breaking point.
|
|
|
Post by ohioguy2 on Sept 30, 2020 4:54:32 GMT -6
I am beginning to regret starting this thread - can we take this elsewhere and get back to discussing marching arts of 2021? I am not trying to derail your thread. But I don’t see how you can expect to have much a season in 2021 with the current restrictions/ cancelation policies. I said wgi canceling is absurd (which it is). And then everyone started saying how “I’ve lost my mind”, because I expressed the opposite opinion. So either Covid is really bad and we can’t have much of a season or Covid is dying down and we can go on with normal. Let me know if this analysis is off base. I didn't say you were out of your mind for thinking WGI canceling is the wrong move, I said you were out of your mind if you think a school like The University of Dayton (and the city of Dayton, state of Ohio, etc.) is going to allow 10,000 people from all over the country pack themselves shoulder to shoulder in an arena. You're also out of your mind if you think that most of the individual ensembles are also going to take on that liability. WGI sent out a survey to member groups a month ago, and at least half said they wouldn't travel even if it were held. It simply wouldn't be cost efficient. I know people who are decision makers in WGI and I know the steps that went into this decision, and yes, you're out of your mind if you really thought that all of this was going to happen in 6-7 months.
|
|
|
Post by Allohak on Sept 30, 2020 7:00:49 GMT -6
All, we've had debates about whether cancellations are warranted or not, and that's fine.
But let's please keep discussions civil. Don't want to have to shut threads down due to things getting heated and personal.
Thanks in advance
|
|
|
Post by marimba11 on Sept 30, 2020 7:55:27 GMT -6
I am not trying to derail your thread. But I don’t see how you can expect to have much a season in 2021 with the current restrictions/ cancelation policies. I said wgi canceling is absurd (which it is). And then everyone started saying how “I’ve lost my mind”, because I expressed the opposite opinion. So either Covid is really bad and we can’t have much of a season or Covid is dying down and we can go on with normal. Let me know if this analysis is off base. I didn't say you were out of your mind for thinking WGI canceling is the wrong move, I said you were out of your mind if you think a school like The University of Dayton (and the city of Dayton, state of Ohio, etc.) is going to allow 10,000 people from all over the country pack themselves shoulder to shoulder in an arena. You're also out of your mind if you think that most of the individual ensembles are also going to take on that liability. WGI sent out a survey to member groups a month ago, and at least half said they wouldn't travel even if it were held. It simply wouldn't be cost efficient. I know people who are decision makers in WGI and I know the steps that went into this decision, and yes, you're out of your mind if you really thought that all of this was going to happen in 6-7 months. I just want to point out that you do think i'm "out of my mind,' for wgi to proceed as normal which is my argument. Anyway I don't care. 6 - 7 months is a long way away. Well I think the ensembles should take on that liability because children are are such low risk as we have said over and over and over again on here. I am disappointed in the ensembles saying no, willing to give up everything they've built for years to support this circuit. Since we don't know the future we should at least test the waters IMO and let things go on. If it fails and people start dying like files then we can curtail, But I see no reason to do so with the info we have about covid 19. Are you claiming wgi has a liability if someone gets covid 19? Why on earth would a business be liable for that? I don't see how anyone could sue for that even if they died as a result (it is almost impossible to prove). Theyre obviously consulting idiot lawyers.
|
|
|
Post by ohioguy2 on Sept 30, 2020 9:22:01 GMT -6
I didn't say you were out of your mind for thinking WGI canceling is the wrong move, I said you were out of your mind if you think a school like The University of Dayton (and the city of Dayton, state of Ohio, etc.) is going to allow 10,000 people from all over the country pack themselves shoulder to shoulder in an arena. You're also out of your mind if you think that most of the individual ensembles are also going to take on that liability. WGI sent out a survey to member groups a month ago, and at least half said they wouldn't travel even if it were held. It simply wouldn't be cost efficient. I know people who are decision makers in WGI and I know the steps that went into this decision, and yes, you're out of your mind if you really thought that all of this was going to happen in 6-7 months. I just want to point out that you do think i'm "out of my mind,' for wgi to proceed as normal which is my argument. Anyway I don't care. 6 - 7 months is a long way away. Well I think the ensembles should take on that liability because children are are such low risk as we have said over and over and over again on here. I am disappointed in the ensembles saying no, willing to give up everything they've built for years to support this circuit. Since we don't know the future we should at least test the waters IMO and let things go on. If it fails and people start dying like files then we can curtail, But I see no reason to do so with the info we have about covid 19. Are you claiming wgi has a liability if someone gets covid 19? Why on earth would a business be liable for that? I don't see how anyone could sue for that even if they died as a result (it is almost impossible to prove). Theyre obviously consulting idiot lawyers. You're missing the point, WGI CANNOT continue this season, even if they want to. They literally cannot find venues to host ANY of their shows. Beyond that, their member groups have made it clear that they're not planning on attending. And right now, none of the venues, especially the ones for championships, would even be allowed to host events with spectators. Any type of sporting event in Ohio is currently limited to 15% capacity for spectators. That is simply not cost effective, and it's not going to change anytime soon.
|
|
|
Post by paddy on Sept 30, 2020 9:44:39 GMT -6
You're missing the point, WGI CANNOT continue this season, even if they want to. They literally cannot find venues to host ANY of their shows. Beyond that, their member groups have made it clear that they're not planning on attending. And right now, none of the venues, especially the ones for championships, would even be allowed to host events with spectators. Any type of sporting event in Ohio is currently limited to 15% capacity for spectators. That is simply not cost effective, and it's not going to change anytime soon. He has proven himself to incapable of having a discussion about this topic. It seems the moderators should either nuke every discussion that involves coronavirus or ban him from posting until he can have a rational discussion.
|
|
|
Post by QuadSquad03 on Sept 30, 2020 9:49:45 GMT -6
You're missing the point, WGI CANNOT continue this season, even if they want to. They literally cannot find venues to host ANY of their shows. Beyond that, their member groups have made it clear that they're not planning on attending. And right now, none of the venues, especially the ones for championships, would even be allowed to host events with spectators. Any type of sporting event in Ohio is currently limited to 15% capacity for spectators. That is simply not cost effective, and it's not going to change anytime soon. He has proven himself to incapable of having a discussion about this topic. It seems the moderators should either nuke every discussion that involves coronavirus or ban him from posting until he can have a rational discussion. To be fair, it's just his opinion...
|
|
|
Post by paddy on Sept 30, 2020 10:29:32 GMT -6
He has proven himself to incapable of having a discussion about this topic. It seems the moderators should either nuke every discussion that involves coronavirus or ban him from posting until he can have a rational discussion. To be fair, it's just his opinion... I'm sorry, but where I did say he can't have an opinion? Have all the opinions you want, just be prepared to discuss them rationally and calmly. He can't do that, and hasn't been able to do that since the spring.
|
|
|
Post by marimba11 on Sept 30, 2020 10:39:40 GMT -6
I just want to point out that you do think i'm "out of my mind,' for wgi to proceed as normal which is my argument. Anyway I don't care. 6 - 7 months is a long way away. Well I think the ensembles should take on that liability because children are are such low risk as we have said over and over and over again on here. I am disappointed in the ensembles saying no, willing to give up everything they've built for years to support this circuit. Since we don't know the future we should at least test the waters IMO and let things go on. If it fails and people start dying like files then we can curtail, But I see no reason to do so with the info we have about covid 19. Are you claiming wgi has a liability if someone gets covid 19? Why on earth would a business be liable for that? I don't see how anyone could sue for that even if they died as a result (it is almost impossible to prove). Theyre obviously consulting idiot lawyers. You're missing the point, WGI CANNOT continue this season, even if they want to. They literally cannot find venues to host ANY of their shows. Beyond that, their member groups have made it clear that they're not planning on attending. And right now, none of the venues, especially the ones for championships, would even be allowed to host events with spectators. Any type of sporting event in Ohio is currently limited to 15% capacity for spectators. That is simply not cost effective, and it's not going to change anytime soon. I think it is sad that schools will not budge. I'd settle for 50% capacity.
|
|
|
Post by dallasman on Sept 30, 2020 10:40:36 GMT -6
Arenas are meant to be filled. No one is out of their mind for thinking that the world will return back to normal. No one is out of their mind to have a different philosophy. The people on here threatening to ban others or wanting speech that do not agree with to be censored are not doing anyone a service. I have been warned probably more than anyone on here, mainly because people think they understand a TONE or I ripped the Governor of Illinois with accurate, descriptive language. This is different. There is really no reason why in the spring you won't see arenas filled again. It's all about public confidence. The virus is not gone, but it will be far more manageable. Last I checked, it's a personal choice to attend these events. YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO! I am not trying to derail your thread. But I don’t see how you can expect to have much a season in 2021 with the current restrictions/ cancelation policies. I said wgi canceling is absurd (which it is). And then everyone started saying how “I’ve lost my mind”, because I expressed the opposite opinion. So either Covid is really bad and we can’t have much of a season or Covid is dying down and we can go on with normal. Let me know if this analysis is off base. I didn't say you were out of your mind for thinking WGI canceling is the wrong move, I said you were out of your mind if you think a school like The University of Dayton (and the city of Dayton, state of Ohio, etc.) is going to allow 10,000 people from all over the country pack themselves shoulder to shoulder in an arena. You're also out of your mind if you think that most of the individual ensembles are also going to take on that liability. WGI sent out a survey to member groups a month ago, and at least half said they wouldn't travel even if it were held. It simply wouldn't be cost efficient. I know people who are decision makers in WGI and I know the steps that went into this decision, and yes, you're out of your mind if you really thought that all of this was going to happen in 6-7 months.
|
|
|
Post by marimba11 on Sept 30, 2020 10:44:29 GMT -6
To be fair, it's just his opinion... I'm sorry, but where I did say he can't have an opinion? Have all the opinions you want, just be prepared to discuss them rationally and calmly. He can't do that, and hasn't been able to do that since the spring. QuadSquad03 is right. Apparently I cannot have an opinion because it is "irrational." Your opinion of my views as "irrational" does not mean wrong. My opinion just doesn't match yours so lets just silence him is your answer. I'm talking about the real issues just like you - we happen to disagree. oh well such is many things. What would you propose the marching activity do right now? How do they survive without revenue?
|
|