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Band size
Nov 18, 2021 18:48:36 GMT -6
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Post by ksbanddad on Nov 18, 2021 18:48:36 GMT -6
In your opinion, what is the minimum number of kids you need in your band and color guard to compete for a title? No less than ______.
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Post by Allohak on Nov 18, 2021 19:06:22 GMT -6
1
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Post by es203 on Nov 18, 2021 22:09:33 GMT -6
And it's just a color guard member. Spinning and singing |
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 18, 2021 22:34:13 GMT -6
In your opinion, what is the minimum number of kids you need in your band and color guard to compete for a title? No less than ______. This is a great question, and definitely one worth discussing. I would say to make grand national finals you need: 100-110 winds as an absolute minimum on the field. Some that we're very successful with those numbers include, Harrison 2015, Jenks 2018, and Marcus Recently. The only other exception would be Tarpon who fielded less up until 2014. For Guard the more the better always seems to be the case, but for finals you probably wouldn't want less the 25-30. Percussion is kind of a mixed bag. I'd say 10 for battery and 20 for front ensemble as a minimum. |
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Post by OldSchoolTrumpet on Nov 19, 2021 5:41:07 GMT -6
Since you used the phrase, "compete for a title," I'm going to assume you really mean that, as opposed to say, simply making GN Finals. For the latter I'd say 160 is a decent modern number, though Center Grove came close a couple of years ago with fewer. But actually winning? It would be instructive to look at the size of the medalist bands over the last 10 years and see how large they tended to be. Have there been many (any?) under 200? Theoretically a 100 person band could compete for the title. In reality, it's not going to happen.
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Band size
Nov 19, 2021 7:12:36 GMT -6
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Post by supersound on Nov 19, 2021 7:12:36 GMT -6
Good question and someone should compile the numbers of winning GN bands in past years. It’s rough data to gather though, not really a place to start looking.
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Post by hostrauser on Nov 19, 2021 11:29:53 GMT -6
Winds: minimum of 100
Percussion: minimum of 25
Guard: minimum of 40
Both Broken Arrow and Blue Springs have been noticeably smaller in both 2019 and 2021, and I believe it's by choice. Broken Arrow used to march about 300 every year (230 musicians and 70 guard, roughly) (not counting alternates, that's what was on the field), but they won the title two weeks ago with only about 210 total on the field (my rough estimate was about 125 winds, 35 percussion, and 50 guard). I think bands are starting to figure out that 120 winds can put out plenty of power and are a lot easier to clean than 200 winds.
200 to 250 total marching members seems to be the "sweet spot" for power, field coverage, and cleanliness of performance both musically and visually.
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Band size
Nov 19, 2021 12:06:40 GMT -6
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Post by marchingmahem on Nov 19, 2021 12:06:40 GMT -6
I guess this goes into a new topic. Do y’all think there should be a band size limit? I know DCI has one but how do you think BOA would be if they only allowed around 250 kids in each band?👀
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 19, 2021 12:18:28 GMT -6
I guess this goes into a new topic. Do y’all think there should be a band size limit? I know DCI has one but how do you think BOA would be if they only allowed around 250 kids in each band?👀 no, keeps things interesting |
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 19, 2021 12:20:01 GMT -6
Winds: minimum of 100 Percussion: minimum of 25 Guard: minimum of 40 Both Broken Arrow and Blue Springs have been noticeably smaller in both 2019 and 2021, and I believe it's by choice. Broken Arrow used to march about 300 every year (230 musicians and 70 guard, roughly) (not counting alternates, that's what was on the field), but they won the title two weeks ago with only about 210 total on the field (my rough estimate was about 125 winds, 35 percussion, and 50 guard). I think bands are starting to figure out that 120 winds can put out plenty of power and are a lot easier to clean than 200 winds. 200 to 250 total marching members seems to be the "sweet spot" for power, field coverage, and cleanliness of performance both musically and visually. This does seem to be the case and 120-130 winds can do that yes. Hebron had a lot in 2019, I think bigger than vandy. It did take the whole season to clean them but that kind of is the case for them these days |
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rickofavon
Senior Member
Never let the drumming die.
Posts: 75
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Post by rickofavon on Nov 19, 2021 13:32:16 GMT -6
In your opinion, what is the minimum number of kids you need in your band and color guard to compete for a title? No less than ______. I'm gonna say 25 if there's no drumline and only a front ensemble. At least 50 if you've got a drumline on the field. If I remember right in 03 the class A champion was very small. Band size limit? Not a fan in the scholastic activity since its school-based give any many kids that want an opportunity to march. DCI is pay to play so I don't find that as big of an issue. |
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Post by hostrauser on Nov 19, 2021 13:58:01 GMT -6
I guess this goes into a new topic. Do y’all think there should be a band size limit? I know DCI has one but how do you think BOA would be if they only allowed around 250 kids in each band?👀 No. And the Allen H.S. (TX) Eagle Escadrille will be waiting outside to have some words with you after that suggestion. |
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Post by LeanderMomma on Nov 19, 2021 15:08:15 GMT -6
I guess this goes into a new topic. Do y’all think there should be a band size limit? I know DCI has one but how do you think BOA would be if they only allowed around 250 kids in each band?👀 No. And the Allen H.S. (TX) Eagle Escadrille will be waiting outside to have some words with you after that suggestion.  |
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Post by marchingmahem on Nov 19, 2021 17:05:50 GMT -6
I guess this goes into a new topic. Do y’all think there should be a band size limit? I know DCI has one but how do you think BOA would be if they only allowed around 250 kids in each band?👀 No. And the Allen H.S. (TX) Eagle Escadrille will be waiting outside to have some words with you after that suggestion. I was NOT suggesting 😂😂. I just wanted to stir the pot lol |
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Post by paddy on Dec 2, 2021 10:25:12 GMT -6
In your opinion, what is the minimum number of kids you need in your band and color guard to compete for a title? No less than ______. I'm gonna say 25 if there's no drumline and only a front ensemble. At least 50 if you've got a drumline on the field. If I remember right in 03 the class A champion was very small. Band size limit? Not a fan in the scholastic activity since its school-based give any many kids that want an opportunity to march. DCI is pay to play so I don't find that as big of an issue. 50 percussionists? 6 basses, 6 snares, 6 tenors is 18. Are you suggesting 32 front ensemble members? |
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Post by hewhowaits on Dec 2, 2021 10:45:10 GMT -6
I'm gonna say 25 if there's no drumline and only a front ensemble. At least 50 if you've got a drumline on the field. If I remember right in 03 the class A champion was very small. Band size limit? Not a fan in the scholastic activity since its school-based give any many kids that want an opportunity to march. DCI is pay to play so I don't find that as big of an issue. 50 percussionists? 6 basses, 6 snares, 6 tenors is 18. Are you suggesting 32 front ensemble members? I think he's saying 50 total band members minimum if using a battery, 25 total minimum if just a front ensemble. |
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Post by srv1084 on Dec 2, 2021 12:02:19 GMT -6
It has evolved quite a bit over the years, but agree with others here in saying 200-250 is the sweet spot at the moment, though we have certainly seen much larger in Carmel, Vandy, and BA. 120-130 winds and 40 guard I think is a good starting point to fill the space in terms of both volume/blend and field coverage. High school bands with lots of percussionists tend to go heavy on front ensemble rather than drumline (very hard to get 15+ battery clean at the high school level), so a rough 3-2 ratio usually works well if you have the numbers (12-14 battery, 16-18 front ensemble). Any smaller, let's say in the 20 total percussionists range, and we're typically running into an even battery/front ensemble split with more balance and layering missing from the overall production. Take a listen to a front ensemble of 16 versus a front ensemble of 8-10 and you'll notice a comparative lack of depth, both in mallet writing and auxiliary. Auxiliary percussion is one of the most overlooked elements of the ensemble, but good aux writing will add a tremendous amount to a production.
Back in the 90s/early 2000s I'd say a minimum of 80-100 winds, 30 guard, and 30 percussion would be sufficient (140-160 members), but times have changed. Visual designs have evolved and are much more intricate and require a lot more field coverage. Also, it's musically very challenging to match up to larger bands when you have a smaller number of winds. It's much easier to hear members poking out of the ensemble and it also makes staggered breathing so much harder.
Lawrence Central was frequently challenging for GN championships, sometimes with ~70-80 winds. I believe that was the case with Echosphere, when they finished 2nd. They overcame their relatively small size with some brilliant visual design (spacing and field coverage made them look much larger) and heavier dependence on their woodwinds geared towards a more symphonic sound. West Genessee, Kiski Area, and others also used to field somewhere in the 120-140 range for many years in those decades and often did well. I also don't remember Lake Park being especially large when they won in 1996. Tarpon was obviously the exception to all of these discussions. Back in the 90s and early 2000s, before they had their sudden membership boost, they were often fielding 50-70 total winds and a band of 100 members maximum. They placed in the top 3-5 a few times with less than 100 members total.
Of course, this discussion also carries a number of other unmentioned factors, most notably whether bands have an audition process or alternates. A band of 220 with 40 alternates has an inherent advantage over a band of 220 with no alternates (other factors ignored for simplicity), simply because Band A has the ability to select their top members through audition.
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Post by marimba11 on Dec 2, 2021 13:29:46 GMT -6
Front Ensembles have gotten huge
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Band size
Dec 2, 2021 20:03:26 GMT -6
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Post by paddy on Dec 2, 2021 20:03:26 GMT -6
50 percussionists? 6 basses, 6 snares, 6 tenors is 18. Are you suggesting 32 front ensemble members? I think he's saying 50 total band members minimum if using a battery, 25 total minimum if just a front ensemble. Ah, okay. I lost track of the conversation through the multiple quotes. |
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Post by boahistorybuff on Dec 3, 2021 5:49:16 GMT -6
Good question and someone should compile the numbers of winning GN bands in past years. It’s rough data to gather though, not really a place to start looking. I have never tried to actually count. This is a very rough estimate, mainly done in a range. Yes it is possible I am a bit off on a few of these. Live Oak (1976 and 1978): 130 to 150 Murray (1977): around 200 Sylva-Webster (1979): around 135 Tate (1980): around 200 Chesterton (1981): 160 to 180 Norwin (1982): 160 to 180 Rocky Mount (1983, 1984 and 1986): 140 to 160 Marian Catholic (1985, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1994, 1997, 2000): 180 to 210 Plymouth-Canton (1990, 1991, 1999): 180 to 190 Centerville (1992): 140 to 160 Spring (1993): 160 to 180 Center Grove (1995): 140 to 160 Lake Park (1996): 130 to 150 Lassiter (1998 and 2002): well over 200 Lawrence Central (2001 and 2004): 150 to 170 Westfield (2003): 180 to 200 Carmel (2005): 180 to 200 Since 2006, I think all GN champions have had over 200, likely well over 200. In 2014, Tarpon may have had just under 200. They had a very big guard. Their winds were the smallest of all GN champions since at least since the mid 1990s. Smallest band in Grand National Finals - Jackson Academy MS (1993) just under 40 members. Smallest non class A band in GN Finals - Tarpon Springs FL (1997 and 1998) around 85 members. Largest band in GN Finals - Duncanville TX (1991 and 1993) likely over 300. |
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Post by statechamp1239 on Dec 3, 2021 14:27:41 GMT -6
Since 2006, I think all GN champions have had over 200, likely well over 200. In 2014, Tarpon may have had just under 200. They had a very big guard. Their winds were the smallest of all GN champions since at least since the mid 1990s. On the Florida School Music Association MPA (Music Performance Assessment) report has Tarpon Springs HS with 208 members in 2014. flmusiced.org/mpaonline/publicreports/MPAReport.aspx?EventID=1658 |
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Band size
Dec 4, 2021 6:35:59 GMT -6
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Post by supersound on Dec 4, 2021 6:35:59 GMT -6
Thanks for the data boahistorybuff
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