|
|
Post by hewhowaits on Jun 16, 2022 8:49:28 GMT -6
At the Morgantown, WV Regional held on October 27, 2001 Lassiter H.S., GA had TWO entries.
Lassiter H.S. I placed first in Class AAA, first overall in prelims, and first in finals (sweeping captions).
Lassiter H.S. II placed third in Class AAA and 19th overall in prelims.
There were also two Trinity H.S., PA participants without the recap indicating which was which. Base on their class assignments, it can be determined which is which because at the 2002 Youngstown Regional their towns were listed in the recap.
|
|
|
|
Post by marimba11 on Jun 16, 2022 18:02:34 GMT -6
I am not sure what we are considering an oddity per se, but something this season did sort of bother me as a scoring "mistake." Dobyns Bennett visual scores in prelims at Jacksonville.
Ind. (5) Behind Wando, Harrison, Hernando, and DeSoto
Ens. (7) Behind Nation Ford, Desoto, Byrnes, Hernando, Mill Creek, and Wando
6th prelims over in visual.
2nd in finals with 2 (2)s
I don't know, I wasn't there but DB had perfectly "normal" visual scores the rest of the season. So this anomaly just really seemed off base to me. I think the only thing you could argue with DB is the beef of the content seemed to be concentrated in the opener vs. closer with a lot of park n bark.
Just weird that this never seemed to come up again for them last season. They are usually the best visual band in the southeast imo, (besides Tarpon). Sorry Wando
|
|
|
|
Post by hewhowaits on Jun 16, 2022 18:51:24 GMT -6
At the Morgantown, WV Regional held on October 27, 2001 Lassiter H.S., GA had TWO entries. Lassiter H.S. I placed first in Class AAA, first overall in prelims, and first in finals (sweeping captions). Lassiter H.S. II placed third in Class AAA and 19th overall in prelims. Found another example of Lassiter sending two bands to the same BOA event - Atlanta, October 21, 2000 - 1st and 29th. |
|
|
|
Post by Subito Fortissimo on Jun 16, 2022 19:22:46 GMT -6
2016 Grand Nationals certainly was an oddity for how close the scoring was. In semi-finals we had a three way tie for 2nd overall and a tie for 12th giving us 13 bands in finals. And then in finals we had our first ever tie for first place and the first and last time that the Grand National Champion was decided by a tiebreaker. Also 7th to 11th place was only separated by 0.85 points.
|
|
|
|
Post by boahistorybuff on Jun 17, 2022 13:03:50 GMT -6
I have probably stated these in several other posts over the years. But here are some of the ones that still kind of puzzle me or I felt were odd at the time, most are from the early days of BOA/MBA when I am sure they were still figuring things out (like what worked well and what did not) and back when the judging was often a bit questionable.
- The scores at the 1980 Grand Nationals. Granted this was not as competitive as a Grand Nationals as in subsequent years, but still, the scores were very low. I heard a lot of bands complained because they had received higher scores at other competitions earlier in the season.
- Also in 1980, BOA (or MBA as it was known then) held 8 regional championships. They had only held 4 the year before and the year after (81) they went back to 4. In fact, they would not hold this many regionals again until 1995 when they held 9.
- At the 1985 Moscow, ID regional, a band from Canada competed and made finals; Magrath HS from Alberta. To my knowledge this is the only time a Canadian band has competed in a Bands of America event.
- Despite being the host of the Grand Nationals in the 1970s and host of the summer nationals of the 1980s, the only BOA Regional held in Whitewater, WI was in 1985. Another odd thing about that regional was that Marian Catholic (who won their first BOA regional at that event) competed in Class A (at least per the recap sheets). To my knowledge this is the only competition they competed in Class A (they were always Class AA in the 1980s). In fact, later in the 85 season they competed in Class AA at both the BOA Indy regional and Grand Nationals.
- I am still perplexed about the outcome of the 1986 BOA Conroe TX regional where Pearl MS was in 4th after Prelims and 11 points behind first place Westfield TX only to improve their score by over 13 points in finals to end up winning the regional title.
- In 1986, no BOA Midwest Regional was held (meaning no regional in either Indiana or Illinois). I don't know if one was scheduled and cancelled due to weather or what.
- The Hoosier Dome (renamed the RCA Dome in 1994) was brand new in 1984. That is when BOA held the first Grand National Championships in Indy. Grand Nationals has been held in Indy every year since, except 1987 and 1988 when it was held at the old Pontiac Silverdome in Pontiac, MI. Now us Michigan bands loved having Grand Nationals in our back yard (cheap trip). To this day, however, I wonder why they did that. Yes the Pontiac Silverdome was a larger arena, but there was not much for students/spectators to do outside of competition. The city of Pontiac had relatively high crime and not much in the downtown and locations to the east were mostly corporate offices and suburban retail and restaurants which were too far of a walk. Indy had the convention center and so many restaurants that were within walking distance. On a side note, the Pontiac Silverdome was demolished a few years back. The location is now the site of an Amazon distribution facility.
- In 1989, BOA made the regional class champions based on Prelims instead of finals. They went to this format at Grand Nationals in 1991 (with the class champions then being named based on semi finals when that format was added in 1996). So this effectively meant that a band could be named Regional or Grand National Champion without having won their class. I know this has become the norm today, but I still find it odd.
- I found it odd in 1995 when BOA stopped using the phrase "Drum Majors .... is Your Band Ready?" Yes I know, no longer odd.
- In 2003, BOA decided during the finals award ceremony that they would not announce scores or placements other than the band who had won. Noone liked that. Looking back on that now, I think we can all agree "that was odd".
- In 2008, with the opening of Lucas Oil Stadium, many of us found it odd that they draped a black tarp in the background so you could not see the stands in the back. I know it was to allow for better focus on the bands (or corps at the DCI World Championships), but it kind of takes away the 'stadium feel', so I still find it a bit odd.
- I suspect several years down the road, many may find it odd that due to the Covid pandemic, there was no retreat for any of the 2021 BOA competitions, including Grand Nationals.
OK I am going to stop here as I could probably ramble on for hours.
|
|
|
|
Post by statechamp1239 on Jun 17, 2022 14:15:12 GMT -6
I got one the top 4 bands from 2011 GN National finals are same top 4 GN Final in 2021. With both times Broken Arrow won and The Woodlands in fourth. 10 years difference.
- Broken Arrow
- Avon
- Carmel
- The Woodlands
|
|
|
|
Post by josephbandfan on Jun 17, 2022 14:18:35 GMT -6
I absolutely love the draped black tarp at GN. Really adds to the grand feel and helps to frame the field better.
|
|
|
|
Post by statechamp1239 on Jun 17, 2022 15:50:01 GMT -6
Another weird anomaly is Westfield HS 1994 and The Woodlands HS 2016 both with the same show "On the Waterfront" with an 22 year span between the two and from the Houston Area. On their San Antonio Regional they placed 2nd in Prelims and Finals (2 times), and both had around 2 point spread between the 1st place band and 2nd place in Finals. Westfield/Spring: 2.95 and The Woodlands/Flower Mound: 2.05. It's a lot of 2. Something going on with that cursed shows. 🤐
|
|
|
|
Post by Subito Fortissimo on Jun 17, 2022 19:15:15 GMT -6
I believe the giant curtain and seat coverings at LOS are not just for looks but also it helps with dampening some of the echo. As bad as the echoes are it would be even worse without those.
|
|
|
|
Post by hewhowaits on Jun 18, 2022 4:52:42 GMT -6
I absolutely love the draped black tarp at GN. Really adds to the grand feel and helps to frame the field better. It also helps with the acoustics. Edit: Subito Fortissimo beat me to it. |
|
|
|
Post by boahistorybuff on Jun 18, 2022 5:52:43 GMT -6
To clarify, I do agree the black tarp is need at LOS. It also helps focus the attention on the band which I think helps with these modern show designs. I guess it the correct phrase should probably be 'unique' as other circuits; ISSMA and DCI also use LOS. When LOS opened and I first saw that, my thought was 'that is odd'.
|
|
|
|
Post by 70sguardchick on Jun 18, 2022 11:46:36 GMT -6
- I found it odd in 1995 when BOA stopped using the phrase "Drum Majors .... is Your Band Ready?" Yes I know, no longer odd.
Because, as we have all been told, they are always ready.
|
|
|
|
Post by hewhowaits on Jun 18, 2022 12:50:53 GMT -6
- I found it odd in 1995 when BOA stopped using the phrase "Drum Majors .... is Your Band Ready?" I've always wondered what would have happened if the question was asked and the drum major turned around and shouted "Nope! We need two more minutes." |
|
|
|
Post by boahistorybuff on Jun 18, 2022 13:24:13 GMT -6
- I found it odd in 1995 when BOA stopped using the phrase "Drum Majors .... is Your Band Ready?" I've always wondered what would have happened if the question was asked and the drum major turned around and shouted "Nope! We need two more minutes." Back in the old days that would mean a big penalty. I can attest to the fact that back in those days in BOA at least, the staff was very good about keeping the bands on time, just as they are today. From my perspective on the field, it was a bit hard to hear Chuck ask if the drum majors were ready. Dr Tim made it known to us to keep our attention on him and he would give us the cue as when to salute or acknowledge we and our band were ready. |
|
|
|
Post by marimba11 on Jun 18, 2022 19:29:44 GMT -6
I got one the top 4 bands from 2011 GN National finals are same top 4 GN Final in 2021. With both times Broken Arrow won and The Woodlands in fourth. 10 years difference. - Broken Arrow - Avon - Carmel - The Woodlands Okay wow that is really freaky |
|
|
|
Post by statechamp1239 on Jun 18, 2022 20:32:01 GMT -6
I got one the top 4 bands from 2011 GN National finals are same top 4 GN Final in 2021. With both times Broken Arrow won and The Woodlands in fourth. 10 years difference. - Broken Arrow - Avon - Carmel - The Woodlands Okay wow that is really freaky Just remind me. That The Woodlands had chairs for both years and Broken Arrow theme was kinda the same too and 2006 Broken Arrow -1st place and The Woodlands - 4th place again. |
|
|
|
Post by dbalash on Jun 20, 2022 15:15:18 GMT -6
I have probably stated these in several other posts over the years. But here are some of the ones that still kind of puzzle me or I felt were odd at the time, most are from the early days of BOA/MBA when I am sure they were still figuring things out (like what worked well and what did not) and back when the judging was often a bit questionable. - The Hoosier Dome (renamed the RCA Dome in 1994) was brand new in 1984. That is when BOA held the first Grand National Championships in Indy. Grand Nationals has been held in Indy every year since, except 1987 and 1988 when it was held at the old Pontiac Silverdome in Pontiac, MI. Now us Michigan bands loved having Grand Nationals in our back yard (cheap trip). To this day, however, I wonder why they did that. Yes the Pontiac Silverdome was a larger arena, but there was not much for students/spectators to do outside of competition. The city of Pontiac had relatively high crime and not much in the downtown and locations to the east were mostly corporate offices and suburban retail and restaurants which were too far of a walk. Indy had the convention center and so many restaurants that were within walking distance. On a side note, the Pontiac Silverdome was demolished a few years back. The location is now the site of an Amazon distribution facility. There was scuttlebutt around ~2010 that the new owners of the Silverdome were trying to woo BOA to move Nationals back to the Silverdome for a year or two to prove the continued viability of the Dome. |
|
|
|
Post by boahistorybuff on Jun 20, 2022 19:07:19 GMT -6
I have probably stated these in several other posts over the years. But here are some of the ones that still kind of puzzle me or I felt were odd at the time, most are from the early days of BOA/MBA when I am sure they were still figuring things out (like what worked well and what did not) and back when the judging was often a bit questionable. - The Hoosier Dome (renamed the RCA Dome in 1994) was brand new in 1984. That is when BOA held the first Grand National Championships in Indy. Grand Nationals has been held in Indy every year since, except 1987 and 1988 when it was held at the old Pontiac Silverdome in Pontiac, MI. Now us Michigan bands loved having Grand Nationals in our back yard (cheap trip). To this day, however, I wonder why they did that. Yes the Pontiac Silverdome was a larger arena, but there was not much for students/spectators to do outside of competition. The city of Pontiac had relatively high crime and not much in the downtown and locations to the east were mostly corporate offices and suburban retail and restaurants which were too far of a walk. Indy had the convention center and so many restaurants that were within walking distance. On a side note, the Pontiac Silverdome was demolished a few years back. The location is now the site of an Amazon distribution facility. There was scuttlebutt around ~2010 that the new owners of the Silverdome were trying to woo BOA to move Nationals back to the Silverdome for a year or two to prove the continued viability of the Dome. That would have been a disaster. By 2010, the dome was already showing signs of neglect. The owners abandoned the dome after that and it fell to disrepair. It was sad to see it like that prior to the demolition. |
|
|
|
Post by srv1084 on Jun 20, 2022 20:12:27 GMT -6
Some of my the biggest head-scratchers for me: 2004 - Norwell was the final performing band in Friday's prelims and performed well enough to secure the 15th overall score across both prelims days (9th on their day), finishing with the highest overall class AA score. Their score placed them ahead of Ayala and within striking distance of PCEP, both finalists that year. It was very clear based on their score that they should have been performing in the "middle 22" block of semi-finals, which would have allowed them to be compared back-to-back with others who were also in contention for finals. Oddly enough, they were scheduled to perform second to last as part of the "next 8 highest scores" block of semi-finals. They eventually finished 20th overall and their semis score dropped them to 3rd in class AA. They were very, very good, but I don't know if they had what it took to make finals that year. Either way, the fact that they didn't perform in the correct semis block is quite the odd situation that was never discussed by the powers that be. 2001 - The division of bands across prelims that year was not well balanced, and scoring in general was just a huge cluster----. This was also the case in a few other years, but as far as I can remember none were quite as lopsided as 2001. Let's just say the current prelims "block" formatting is a change for the better. In 2001, all "next 8" semifinalists came from Friday's prelims. In fact, you'd have to go all the way down to 29th place on Friday to find a band that the "first out" Thursday band would beat based on score. That means that there were 17 bands outside Friday's top 11 that could have made the "next 8" based on score before a single Thursday band outside the top 11 could have made it in (ignoring the tie for 11th on Thursday which advanced automatically). I remember a lot of discussion surrounding these results on the old BOA forums at the time. Some folks argued that Friday's bands were just that much better with Saturday's semis results being too harsh, while others argued that Friday was massively over-scored in comparison to Thursday's prelims and the correction came in Semis. While I do think the strongest lineup of bands was on Friday, I'd agree with the latter saying the semis panel got it correct. Nevertheless, it still makes me wonder how on earth Friday ever happened. Some highlights from 2001 results: - All but one of the 20 advancing bands from Friday saw their score decrease from prelims to Semis. Irmo is the only band whose score increased a whopping 0.45 (enough to get them into finals based on everyone else dropping).
- Comparatively, four out of 14 advancing bands from Thursday saw their score increase in Semis.
- The average score movement for Thursday's preliminary advancers was -1.15.
- The average score movement for Friday's preliminary advancers was -3.72 - not a crazy amount, UNTIL you start digging into some of them.
- Six Friday bands saw their scores drop more than five points: Collinsville -10.90, FJ Reitz -7.95, Ooltewah -7.65, North Hardin -5.65, King Philip -5.20, Centerville -5.20. A few others also dropped in excess of four points.
- Only one Thursday band dropped over five points: Marietta Sr. -5.75. All others dropped less than 3.5 or gained.
- Based on prelims results, 10 of the top 12 bands were from Friday. After semis, four from Thursday advanced with the other eight coming from Friday.
- The third highest band from Thursday was 16th overall after prelims and 4th highest was 18th overall after prelims. Both saw their scores increase about two points to land them in finals. Only three other semifinalists saw their scores increase, with 29 semifinalists decreasing.
- Based on the eventual finalists, there were six Friday bands that didn't make finals whose prelims scores were higher than the lowest prelims score achieved by an eventual finalist. Ooltewah dropped from 8th to 19th (yikes), and Centerville from 9th to 16th. Alan C. Pope, Owasso, Etiwanda, and King Philip also achieved scores that were higher than the lowest finalist's prelims score.
- Based on non-finalists, Thursday's scores dropped an average of 2.24 points, while Friday's scores dropped an average of 5.15 points.
|
|
|
|
Post by dbbandalum on Sept 11, 2023 0:54:48 GMT -6
Just remembered a large oddity that I don`t see many people talk about: Centerville beating Castle in the Indy super just a week before GN, but then failing to reach semis when Castle placed 10th in Finals. I still to this day wonder what happened that caused Centerville to drop that many points.
|
|
|
|
Post by marimba11 on Sept 11, 2023 7:47:47 GMT -6
Just remembered a large oddity that I don`t see many people talk about: Centerville beating Castle in the Indy super just a week before GN, but then failing to reach semis when Castle placed 10th in Finals. I still to this day wonder what happened that caused Centerville to drop that many points. That blue panel at GN got really screwed IMO. This is also the panel that had Ayala AND James Bowie in 23rd/ 24th (out of the top 22) but had Green Hope and Columbus North in semis. This was a very competitive GN however. It also had Jenks 40th!! |
|
|
|
Post by ohioguy2 on Sept 11, 2023 9:42:42 GMT -6
Just remembered a large oddity that I don`t see many people talk about: Centerville beating Castle in the Indy super just a week before GN, but then failing to reach semis when Castle placed 10th in Finals. I still to this day wonder what happened that caused Centerville to drop that many points. That blue panel at GN got really screwed IMO. This is also the panel that had Ayala AND James Bowie in 23rd/ 24th (out of the top 22) but had Green Hope and Columbus North in semis. This was a very competitive GN however. It also had Jenks 40th!! That was probably the most competitive Grand Nationals prelims in history. You could make one heck of a show out of the bands that finished 31st through 60th that year. Rockford Centerville Nation Ford Walled Lake Central Lafayette Adair Co. Bentonville Reeths-Puffer North Hardin Jenks Bassett Panther Creek Lake Central Morton Carroll Ben Davis Mustang Lincoln-Way Central Hardin Campbell Co. Lake Hamilton Miamisburg Jenison Westlake Paragould Bellbrook Father Ryan Huron Valley Academy Lake Orion Southmoore Almost every single band on that list has been a semifinalist, and some pretty consistently so. |
|
|
|
Post by dbbandalum on Sept 11, 2023 17:11:05 GMT -6
That blue panel at GN got really screwed IMO. This is also the panel that had Ayala AND James Bowie in 23rd/ 24th (out of the top 22) but had Green Hope and Columbus North in semis. This was a very competitive GN however. It also had Jenks 40th!! That was probably the most competitive Grand Nationals prelims in history. You could make one heck of a show out of the bands that finished 31st through 60th that year. Rockford Centerville Nation Ford Walled Lake Central Lafayette Adair Co. Bentonville Reeths-Puffer North Hardin Jenks Bassett Panther Creek Lake Central Morton Carroll Ben Davis Mustang Lincoln-Way Central Hardin Campbell Co. Lake Hamilton Miamisburg Jenison Westlake Paragould Bellbrook Father Ryan Huron Valley Academy Lake Orion Southmoore Almost every single band on that list has been a semifinalist, and some pretty consistently so. ya looking back on it now, 48 out of the top 50 scoring over an 80 in prelims is pretty wild. |
|
|
|
Post by crowncrawler on Sept 11, 2023 20:33:47 GMT -6
At prelims in Johnson City in 2019, Ardrey Kell took 1st in visual GE (18.20) over the likes of Lafayette and Dobyns-Bennett. By finals, they had dropped to 10th (14.60).
A reliable source claims that the prelims score was probably a mistake, but it still makes me scratch my head.
|
|
|
|
Post by boahistorybuff on Sept 12, 2023 13:49:30 GMT -6
How about 2013, in GN Semi Finals, the visual individual just had The Woodlands ranked 18th. The visual individual judge in GN Finals had them 3rd. Yes judges can make mistakes.
|
|
|
|
Post by Allohak on Sept 12, 2023 15:16:23 GMT -6
How about 2013, in GN Semi Finals, the visual individual just had The Woodlands ranked 18th. The visual individual judge in GN Finals had them 3rd. Yes judges can make mistakes. It's also very possible that this particular judge just happened to be in the right places at the right times to notice every bit of phasing or spacing imperfection that existed in the semifinals run. Would have to hear the tape to know |
|
|
|
Post by hewhowaits on Sept 12, 2023 15:20:46 GMT -6
How about 2013, in GN Semi Finals, the visual individual just had The Woodlands ranked 18th. The visual individual judge in GN Finals had them 3rd. Yes judges can make mistakes. So are you saying that the finals VPI judge messed up? |
|
|
|
Post by boahistorybuff on Sept 12, 2023 17:28:48 GMT -6
How about 2013, in GN Semi Finals, the visual individual just had The Woodlands ranked 18th. The visual individual judge in GN Finals had them 3rd. Yes judges can make mistakes. So are you saying that the finals VPI judge messed up? Nope, the VPI judge in semi finals did. Look at the scores from the prelims judge and the finals judge. Perhaps they were not as clean in Semi Finals (I do not know per say), but I can not imagine it being to that degree. The Woodlands 2013 visuals were very clean, especially at nationals. |
|
|
|
Post by indianabandkid12 on Sept 21, 2023 6:24:02 GMT -6
In grand nationals in 2022, Southlake Carroll got and 86.6 in prelims, placing 22. In semis, they got a 90.2, jumping to 11th and making finals. In finals, they got a 91 and placed 7th. This is maybe the fastest growth in competition I’ve ever heard of.
|
|
|
|
Post by boahistorybuff on Sept 21, 2023 6:57:03 GMT -6
In grand nationals in 2022, Southlake Carroll got and 86.6 in prelims, placing 22. In semis, they got a 90.2, jumping to 11th and making finals. In finals, they got a 91 and placed 7th. This is maybe the fastest growth in competition I’ve ever heard of. For Grand Nationals, I believe you are right. |
|
