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Post by thewho on Sept 11, 2022 19:54:39 GMT -6
In the interest of avoiding cluttering the results amongst discussion, we'll have the results discussion happening here. Feel free to post results here also when discussion merits it, but please keep it to a minimal and necessary amount as needed.
Any posts with just pure results (i.e. block of long text) will be moved to the results thread, granted there are no repeats.
As always, please keep the conversation civil and any user that instigates a hostile argument will not result in this thread being locked, but being banned from the forums for a week. Repeat offenders will be banned from the forums for good on their third week-long ban. Allowing this thread to be a continuous conversation is of huge interest to the HR team, and locking the thread for a few days will prevent exactly that.
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Post by marimba11 on Sept 11, 2022 20:54:49 GMT -6
I have never seen Lenape Valley but just looking at their enrollment numbers they only have 640 students… vs JP Stevens over 2500
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Sept 12, 2022 0:14:45 GMT -6
I have never seen Lenape Valley but just looking at their enrollment numbers they only have 640 students… vs JP Stevens over 2500 In USBands, A Class is for bands that are less competitive. Open Class is for more established groups. Just like how scores between WGI's A/Open/World Classes aren't comparable, the same is true for USBands. Since Lenape Valley competes in USBands' A Class and JP Stevens competes in Open, Lenape Valley didn't really "beat" JP Stevens.
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Post by bigtrombone on Sept 12, 2022 8:51:27 GMT -6
My Thoughts on the Eastview Marching Festival Scores:
- Rosemount scoring an 82.5, I think, matches what they scored here last year. I'm pretty confident in saying that they likely don't have the full show on the field yet so I'm excited how this show develops between now and Grand Nationals. I will say, until I see otherwise, they have the best uniforms of the season. FJM went all out with the uniforms.
- Brandon Valley scoring a 79 is the best they've come out of the gates in recent year. It'll be interesting to see how they'll do against Lincoln this next weekend at Marshall. Depending on who goes, a top half of finals finish at Youth in Music, heck maybe even a medal, is not out of the question for them.
- Eden Prairie, I've heard, is about the same size as last year. After last year, I expected Brandon may beat them again this year but I wasn't expecting a 4.5 point gap.
- Marshall still seems to be finding their footing after Wayne Ivers' retirement.
- Grand Rapids' showing here was really solid (Dominated Class AA, Came within a point of Eden Prairie). I would say a top half of finals finish at BOA Iowa is not out of the question for them.
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Post by doublegeez on Sept 12, 2022 11:24:24 GMT -6
My Thoughts on the Eastview Marching Festival Scores: - Rosemount scoring an 82.5, I think, matches what they scored here last year. I'm pretty confident in saying that they likely don't have the full show on the field yet so I'm excited how this show develops between now and Grand Nationals. I will say, until I see otherwise, they have the best uniforms of the season. FJM went all out with the uniforms. I’ve heard they only have about 5:30 worth of show for showcasing out atm but yes those uniforms are so stylish this year!! I’ve also heard from some members that there was plenty of tearing in the show at eastview which is impressive given the score they got
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Post by statechamp1239 on Sept 12, 2022 13:22:02 GMT -6
I have never seen Lenape Valley but just looking at their enrollment numbers they only have 640 students… vs JP Stevens over 2500 In USBands, A Class is for bands that are less competitive. Open Class is for more established groups. Just like how scores between WGI's A/Open/World Classes aren't comparable, the same is true for USBands. Since Lenape Valley competes in USBands' A Class and JP Stevens competes in Open, Lenape Valley didn't really "beat" JP Stevens. Really? Someone told me that A class and Open class had the same scoring. Guess they were wrong.
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Post by dbalash on Sept 12, 2022 13:52:17 GMT -6
In USBands, A Class is for bands that are less competitive. Open Class is for more established groups. Just like how scores between WGI's A/Open/World Classes aren't comparable, the same is true for USBands. Since Lenape Valley competes in USBands' A Class and JP Stevens competes in Open, Lenape Valley didn't really "beat" JP Stevens. Really? Someone told me that A class and Open class had the same scoring. Guess they were wrong. There's more "boxes" that need to be checked on Open Class sheets compared to A class. Effect sheets for Open Class add a "creativity" subcaption as well as a clarity of musical/visual style and identity. Music captions add a "depth," "space", "creativity", as well as dynamic control (music ensemble) aspect to the Open Class sheets Visual sheets add a creativity dynamic as well, as well as the beloved depth aspect. Style and expressiveness is also included in the achievement category. usbands.org/sheets/
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Post by statechamp1239 on Sept 12, 2022 14:01:11 GMT -6
Really? Someone told me that A class and Open class had the same scoring. Guess they were wrong. There's more "boxes" that need to be checked on Open Class sheets compared to A class. Effect sheets for Open Class add a "creativity" subcaption as well as a clarity of musical/visual style and identity. Music captions add a "depth," "space", "creativity", as well as dynamic control (music ensemble) aspect to the Open Class sheets Visual sheets add a creativity dynamic as well, as well as the beloved depth aspect. Style and expressiveness is also included in the achievement category. usbands.org/sheets/Thank you. I see.
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Post by Marching Observer on Sept 14, 2022 16:48:36 GMT -6
Quick question for the OMEA familiar people here. Could you do a breakdown of what all the classes are and how they are determined ala band/school size please?
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Post by hewhowaits on Sept 14, 2022 16:52:02 GMT -6
Quick question for the OMEA familiar people here. Could you do a breakdown of what all the classes are and how they are determined ala band/school size please? Not sure about the marching classifications, but for concert band OMEA classifications are based on the difficulty level of the music played by the individuals or groups for evaluation. Size of the school or performing group is not part of the consideration.
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Post by Marching Observer on Sept 14, 2022 17:16:33 GMT -6
Quick question for the OMEA familiar people here. Could you do a breakdown of what all the classes are and how they are determined ala band/school size please? Not sure about the marching classifications, but for concert band OMEA classifications are based on the difficulty level of the music played by the individuals or groups for evaluation. Size of the school or performing group is not part of the consideration. I think for the concert season, that seems pretty standard across most states. But yes I was specifically inquiring about marching band.
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Post by hewhowaits on Sept 14, 2022 18:12:54 GMT -6
Not sure about the marching classifications, but for concert band OMEA classifications are based on the difficulty level of the music played by the individuals or groups for evaluation. Size of the school or performing group is not part of the consideration. I think for the concert season, that seems pretty standard across most states. But yes I was specifically inquiring about marching band. Found it: By school enrollment - Class determined by number of students in grades 10-12: • AA: 901+ • A: 501-900 • B: 301-500 • C: 300 and fewer
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Post by neop on Sept 14, 2022 20:37:58 GMT -6
I think for the concert season, that seems pretty standard across most states. But yes I was specifically inquiring about marching band. Found it: By school enrollment - Class determined by number of students in grades 10-12: • AA: 901+ • A: 501-900 • B: 301-500 • C: 300 and fewer This is correct, and I want to add one additional point: Bands may compete in any class above their predetermined enrollment-based class, but, naturally, they may NOT move down in the class structure while competing. This has its drawbacks, as some large schools do not have comparatively well-endowed band programs. There are some bands who might benefit from competing in class A or B, but are stuck in class AA. In contrast, an extreme example of a band moving up the class structure is Berne Union H.S., which regularly competes (and often wins!) with a relatively large group in class A or AA, despite having the enrollment of a class C school. Like any other circuit, OMEA's class system fits the general trend of wealthier school = more successful band program, but it also has its outliers. If I was to redesign this system, I'd base it off of the ratio of membership count to school enrollment, but I'm sure that has its drawbacks and outliers as well.
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Post by ilikeguard on Sept 14, 2022 21:11:46 GMT -6
No schedule yet for the Millard West Wildcat Classic on Sept. 17, but WOW is it stacked in terms of our upper Midwest groups. The attendance lineup:
Ankeny Centennial High School — Ankeny, IA
Bellevue East High School — Bellevue, NE
Bellevue West High School — Bellevue, NE
Burke High School — Omaha, NE
Elkhorn High School — Elkhorn, NE
Elkhorn North High School — Elkhorn, NE
Elkhorn South High School — Elkhorn, NE
Lewis Central High School — Council Bluffs, IA
Lincoln Southeast High School — Lincoln, NE
Millard North High School — Omaha, NE
Millard South High School — Omaha, NE
MOC-Floyd Valley High School — Orange City, IA
Northwest High School — Waukee, IA
Omaha North High School — Omaha, NE
Papillion-La Vista High School — Papillion, NE
Papillion-La Vista South High School — Papillion, NE
Sioux City East High School — Sioux City, IA
Sioux City West High School — Sioux City, IA
Skutt Catholic High School — Omaha, NE
Waukee High School — Waukee, IA
Winterset High School — Winterset, IA
Several of these groups will be at BOA Iowa as well as St. Louis. Being a week before Iowa, it will certainly be interesting to see how the scores here line up for those bands attending both.
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Post by bigtrombone on Sept 15, 2022 9:24:08 GMT -6
No schedule yet for the Millard West Wildcat Classic on Sept. 17, but WOW is it stacked in terms of our upper Midwest groups. The attendance lineup: Ankeny Centennial High School — Ankeny, IA Bellevue East High School — Bellevue, NE Bellevue West High School — Bellevue, NE Burke High School — Omaha, NE Elkhorn High School — Elkhorn, NE Elkhorn North High School — Elkhorn, NE Elkhorn South High School — Elkhorn, NE Lewis Central High School — Council Bluffs, IA Lincoln Southeast High School — Lincoln, NE Millard North High School — Omaha, NE Millard South High School — Omaha, NE MOC-Floyd Valley High School — Orange City, IA Northwest High School — Waukee, IA Omaha North High School — Omaha, NE Papillion-La Vista High School — Papillion, NE Papillion-La Vista South High School — Papillion, NE Sioux City East High School — Sioux City, IA Sioux City West High School — Sioux City, IA Skutt Catholic High School — Omaha, NE Waukee High School — Waukee, IA Winterset High School — Winterset, IA Several of these groups will be at BOA Iowa as well as St. Louis. Being a week before Iowa, it will certainly be interesting to see how the scores here line up for those bands attending both. Also curious to see Millard West's show. Yes they're hosting and will perform in exhibition, but they're on the rise. They scored pretty close to Rosemount and SF Lincoln last year at Youth in Music.
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Post by statechamp1239 on Sept 18, 2022 11:28:20 GMT -6
Fossil Ridge (CO) won the Monarch competition with a gap of 3.75 from first to second place. - Centaurus HS on the up and up achieving a 2nd place placement beat Loveland HS by 1.05 points. Can't wait for the Flagstaff Regional.
Trumbull (CT) losing to Norwalk (CT) in USBands of a margin of 0.2 points. - Blackstone Millville Regional (MA) getting the highest score beating Arlington (NY) last week and now Cheshire (CT) and Southington (CT)
Cicero North Syracuse (NY) beat Liverpool, West Genesee, Baldwinsville, Victor yesterday in order.
In the Taylor County Competition:
Central Hardin won the whole thing while Russell County was in 2nd, Barren County in 3rd, and lastly and sadly Adair County in 4th. In the Lafayette Competition: Bourbon County HS were the grand Champion It was tough competition in class 5A Prelims as Henry Clay beat North Hardin by 1.05 points however, in a battle for finals, North Hardin ended up beating Henry Clay for the 2nd place position. South Laurel and Christian County getting the highest score in their own competition with big margins. SLHS (6.55 points) and CCHS (12.80 points) Sauk Prairie (WI) beat Oak Creek (WI).
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Post by philodemus on Sept 18, 2022 11:51:52 GMT -6
In the Taylor County Competition: Central Hardin won the whole thing while Russell County was in 2nd, Barren County in 3rd, and lastly and sadly Adair County in 4th. I mean, those are some good bands. Historically, Central Hardin's excellence is newish and might not be well known outside our region, and Barren has been a really solid contender for years. I haven't seen Adair yet, but this result doesn't necessarily mean the wheels have fallen off.
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Post by northbanddad on Sept 18, 2022 21:20:34 GMT -6
My Thoughts on the Eastview Marching Festival Scores: - Rosemount scoring an 82.5, I think, matches what they scored here last year. I'm pretty confident in saying that they likely don't have the full show on the field yet so I'm excited how this show develops between now and Grand Nationals. I will say, until I see otherwise, they have the best uniforms of the season. FJM went all out with the uniforms. - Brandon Valley scoring a 79 is the best they've come out of the gates in recent year. It'll be interesting to see how they'll do against Lincoln this next weekend at Marshall. Depending on who goes, a top half of finals finish at Youth in Music, heck maybe even a medal, is not out of the question for them. - Eden Prairie, I've heard, is about the same size as last year. After last year, I expected Brandon may beat them again this year but I wasn't expecting a 4.5 point gap. - Marshall still seems to be finding their footing after Wayne Ivers' retirement. - Grand Rapids' showing here was really solid (Dominated Class AA, Came within a point of Eden Prairie). I would say a top half of finals finish at BOA Iowa is not out of the question for them. Brandon Valley is a bigger band this year and definitely sounds like one without losing quality. I had the pleasure of being in Marshall and definitely came out impress. It wasn't an easy delineation anymore between BV and Lincoln. It seems BV is getting closer to Lincoln and Rosemount every year. I'm very happy about those future upper midwest competitions. I'm a bit depress with the state of Marshall, and for that matter EP. These bands used to be big dominant bands of the upper midwest but for different reasons have definitely seen challenges in their programs. I really hope that they could find a way to get back to how they use to be and compete again with Rosemount, Lincoln, and now Brandon Valley.
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Post by redteam1114 on Sept 19, 2022 14:34:45 GMT -6
My Thoughts on the Eastview Marching Festival Scores: - Rosemount scoring an 82.5, I think, matches what they scored here last year. I'm pretty confident in saying that they likely don't have the full show on the field yet so I'm excited how this show develops between now and Grand Nationals. I will say, until I see otherwise, they have the best uniforms of the season. FJM went all out with the uniforms. - Brandon Valley scoring a 79 is the best they've come out of the gates in recent year. It'll be interesting to see how they'll do against Lincoln this next weekend at Marshall. Depending on who goes, a top half of finals finish at Youth in Music, heck maybe even a medal, is not out of the question for them. - Eden Prairie, I've heard, is about the same size as last year. After last year, I expected Brandon may beat them again this year but I wasn't expecting a 4.5 point gap. - Marshall still seems to be finding their footing after Wayne Ivers' retirement. - Grand Rapids' showing here was really solid (Dominated Class AA, Came within a point of Eden Prairie). I would say a top half of finals finish at BOA Iowa is not out of the question for them. Brandon Valley is a bigger band this year and definitely sounds like one without losing quality. I had the pleasure of being in Marshall and definitely came out impress. It wasn't an easy delineation anymore between BV and Lincoln. It seems BV is getting closer to Lincoln and Rosemount every year. I'm very happy about those future upper midwest competitions. I'm a bit depress with the state of Marshall, and for that matter EP. These bands used to be big dominant bands of the upper midwest but for different reasons have definitely seen challenges in their programs. I really hope that they could find a way to get back to how they use to be and compete again with Rosemount, Lincoln, and now Brandon Valley. As someone from the area, it is nice to see Brandon Valley emerging as a power in their own right! Ever since Shane Macklin left Roosevelt HS, it eventually took the form of Lincoln being in a league of their own in the Sioux Falls metro area. I'm really hoping Brandon goes to St. Louis or Iowa at some point! Given the circumstances around their first BOA appearance in 2018 (first year of a new director after an abrupt resignation), it's been wonderful to see the progression become more complete! They have their home show this weekend, but now they can be considered serious favorites for field sweepstakes at Festival of Bands on October 1, which would be a first for them, if memory serves me right.
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Post by scbandfan on Sept 20, 2022 6:02:24 GMT -6
Any know what competitions, local or otherwise, that Fort Mill is competing in this year? I dont see them on any published SC contests or BOA regionals
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rbrbds
Junior Member
Posts: 21
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Post by rbrbds on Sept 20, 2022 8:05:08 GMT -6
Any know what competitions, local or otherwise, that Fort Mill is competing in this year? I dont see them on any published SC contests or BOA regionals Wando on the 24th, BoA Delaware on the 8th, and 5A State on 11/5 is all that I know.
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Post by statechamp1239 on Sept 25, 2022 16:37:58 GMT -6
Fossil Ridge (CO) won the Legacy Festival beating Loveland, Centaurus and Air Academy. Centaurus seem to be getting better every year beating Air Academy and Loveland in Prelims.
With a surprise guest Rio Rancho (NM) placing 5th. Liberty (CO) place 13th outside of finals but since Centaurus (CO) opted out of finals keeping the, in 12th place for finals. D'Evelyn not making finals placing 17th place. ---- Park Vista (FL) still under 99 members placed second against Jupiter (FL) with a big gap of 3.2 points ---- Anderson County (KY) was only 0.95 points away from the great Lafayette (KY) and stole the General Effect caption. ---- Blue Valley (KS) a three-time KBA Championship Champion in 2017,2019,2021 beat Blue Valley West (KS) in prelims but BV lost to BVW in finals by 0.94 points. However BV lost to Olathe NW, Blue Valley West, and Olathe E. I honestly can't wait for KBA Championships. Kansas Bands: 2nd 69.72 Olathe NW 3rd 69.30 Blue Valley West 4th 69.25 Olathe East 5th 68.36 Blue Valley 7th 62.90 Olathe North ---- KC Championships won by Grain Valley (MO) with an 8.93-point lead
Ozarks Competition won by Kickapoo (MO) with 2nd place winner by Nixa (MO) just 0.2 points away. I'm surprise cuz I just saw Nixa they sound and look amazing. ---- West Orange (NJ) has another good year might become a big threat for 2021 NJMBDA Class AAA State Winner, Elizabeth HS ---- CNS (NY) wins another competition against WG and Liverpool they seem on a good track to win their 3rd State title ---- Clover (SC) beating Mauldin, Dorman, Boiling Springs. They are on fire with 1.6 points away from Mauldin (2nd place). ---- Lehi (UT) stealing two captions from Green Canyon (UT) and close to each other. ---- Dickinson (TX) winning USBands Baytown Showcase beating Cinco Ranch (TX) by 3.8 points and Jersey Village (TX), and with Foster (TX) getting the second highest score.
Aledo (TX) won the Mansfield PofC beating Colleyville Heritage (2nd place), Lake Ridge (3rd place), and Highland Park (4th place)
Little Elm Classic was won by Lone Star (TX), McKinney North (TX) in second and Independence (TX) in third
McCallum (TX) won the CapCity Marching Festival ---- Sauk Prairie (WI) grand champion again defeating the powerful Oak Creek (WI) last week and now Mukwonago (WI)
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Post by statechamp1239 on Sept 25, 2022 20:55:56 GMT -6
Kiski Area beat Norwin by 1.316 points btw.
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Post by trumpet300 on Sept 25, 2022 21:30:11 GMT -6
Kiski Area beat Norwin by 1.316 points btw. It was .658 technically. The way scores are tabulated, the "raw" scores don't really matter. It's a ratio basically.
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Post by iwasinbandbackthen on Sept 25, 2022 22:54:30 GMT -6
[/quote] As someone from the area, it is nice to see Brandon Valley emerging as a power in their own right! Ever since Shane Macklin left Roosevelt HS, it eventually took the form of Lincoln being in a league of their own in the Sioux Falls metro area. I'm really hoping Brandon goes to St. Louis or Iowa at some point! Given the circumstances around their first BOA appearance in 2018 (first year of a new director after an abrupt resignation), it's been wonderful to see the progression become more complete! They have their home show this weekend, but now they can be considered serious favorites for field sweepstakes at Festival of Bands on October 1, which would be a first for them, if memory serves me right.[/quote]
Brandon Valley came close to winning Sioux Falls last year. They had the highest score in prelims and captured the Class AAAA championship. Then they flipped with Eastview in finals, placing second.
Brandon Valley’s winter percussion program had a breakout season last year, getting promoted from A to Open at the first contest. Then they went on to make finals at WGI championships.
I was a marching tech at Brandon Valley in the early 2000s, so it’s been fun to see them come to greater prominence over the past couple seasons.
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Post by marimba11 on Sept 25, 2022 23:26:11 GMT -6
Fossil Ridge (CO) won the Legacy Festival beating Loveland, Centaurus and Air Academy. Centaurus seem to be getting better every year beating Air Academy and Loveland in Prelims. With a surprise guest Rio Rancho (NM) placing 5th. Liberty (CO) place 13th outside of finals but since Centaurus (CO) opted out of finals keeping the, in 12th place for finals. D'Evelyn not making finals placing 17th place. ---- Park Vista (FL) still under 99 members placed second against Jupiter (FL) with a big gap of 3.2 points ---- Anderson County (KY) was only 0.95 points away from the great Lafayette (KY) and stole the General Effect caption. ---- Blue Valley (KS) a three-time KBA Championship Champion in 2017,2019,2021 beat Blue Valley West (KS) in prelims but BV lost to BVW in finals by 0.94 points. However BV lost to Olathe NW, Blue Valley West, and Olathe E. I honestly can't wait for KBA Championships. Kansas Bands: 2nd 69.72 Olathe NW 3rd 69.30 Blue Valley West 4th 69.25 Olathe East 5th 68.36 Blue Valley 7th 62.90 Olathe North ---- KC Championships won by Grain Valley (MO) with an 8.93-point lead Ozarks Competition won by Kickapoo (MO) with 2nd place winner by Nixa (MO) just 0.2 points away. I'm surprise cuz I just saw Nixa they sound and look amazing. ---- West Orange (NJ) has another good year might become a big threat for 2021 NJMBDA Class AAA State Winner, Elizabeth HS ---- CNS (NY) wins another competition against WG and Liverpool they seem on a good track to win their 3rd State title ---- Clover (SC) beating Mauldin, Dorman, Boiling Springs. They are on fire with 1.6 points away from Mauldin (2nd place). ---- Lehi (UT) stealing two captions from Green Canyon (UT) and close to each other. ---- Dickinson (TX) winning USBands Baytown Showcase beating Cinco Ranch (TX) by 3.8 points and Jersey Village (TX), and with Foster (TX) getting the second highest score. Aledo (TX) won the Mansfield PofC beating Colleyville Heritage (2nd place), Lake Ridge (3rd place), and Highland Park (4th place) Little Elm Classic was won by Lone Star (TX), McKinney North (TX) in second and Independence (TX) in third McCallum (TX) won the CapCity Marching Festival ---- Sauk Prairie (WI) grand champion again defeating the powerful Oak Creek (WI) last week and now Mukwonago (WI) Fossil Ridge definitely deserved it. Air academy I also thought was really good and had really good fundamentals. They had a big tear in their ballad though unfortunately. Definitely thought Rio Rancho was deserving of a top 5 finish. Only played though the ballad but they sounded really good. Visual was kinda basic. I think in the case of Clover their director change will actually have probably helped them. Joe Gulledge was doing pretty simple shows. We shall see!
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Post by marimba11 on Sept 25, 2022 23:31:18 GMT -6
Kiski Area beat Norwin by 1.316 points btw. It was .658 technically. The way scores are tabulated, the "raw" scores don't really matter. It's a ratio basically. If Kiski is already beating Norwin (even if by a little) that definitely bodes well for Delaware. I see James Madison also won a contest fairly handily.
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Post by trumpet300 on Sept 26, 2022 4:07:21 GMT -6
It was .658 technically. The way scores are tabulated, the "raw" scores don't really matter. It's a ratio basically. If Kiski is already beating Norwin (even if by a little) that definitely bodes well for Delaware. I see James Madison also won a contest fairly handily. Kiski will definitely be fine in Delaware. I'll also point out Kiski is basically finished and Norwin still has almost half (just estimating) of their final movement to put on the field and add basically all choreography to what looked to me like the entire 2nd half of the show. They were both good the other night though.
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Post by cornet on Sept 26, 2022 10:07:00 GMT -6
Interested in band sizes folks are seeing broadly. In NC a few I've seen from programs are roughly as follow:
Green Level 138 Cleveland 117 Panther Creek 110 Cary 105 Green Hope 90
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Post by srv1084 on Sept 26, 2022 12:05:49 GMT -6
Interested in band sizes folks are seeing broadly. In NC a few I've seen from programs are roughly as follow: Green Level 138 Cleveland 117 Panther Creek 110 Cary 105 Green Hope 90 I've been trying to keep up with the Northeast, specifically bands in Class IV-V US Bands and any attending the two regionals. Here's what I've found so far (all numbers approximate total membership based on videos/in-person): Group VJP Stevens - 180 Smithfield Selma - 125 South Brunswick - 120 North Penn - 98 Dartmouth - 90 Missing: Downingtown West, but looks like last year they were 150 Group IVPassaic - 95 Unionville - 91 Egg Harbor Township - 88 Edison - 80 Elizabeth - 79 Southington - 77 Others (Northeast Bands who currently compete/have previously competed in BOA)West Orange - 80 Bridgewater-Raritan - 71 Roxbury - 61 Worth noting that Cicero-North Syracuse, Liverpool, Trumbull, and Norwalk are now in Group IV. All four groups would previously compete in Group V which is >100 members.
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