stix
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Posts: 29
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Post by stix on Oct 9, 2022 8:00:57 GMT -6
Why do some band slow roll their show? I have noticed some bands have all their show on the field and other only part. Do some bands buy all the show up front and other buy it in pieces? Do they all get the show up front and it just takes some longer to learn it? Is the show not finished by the writers in some cases? Is it a cost or pricing constraints? Any thought are appreciated, this has puzzled me over the years.
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Post by paddy on Oct 9, 2022 8:42:58 GMT -6
I think very little of it is cost concerns.
I think there are a few driving factors.
1. Drill writer/designer delays 2. Teaching methodology 3. Competition schedule/practice schedule
The first is pretty obvious. There are some schools that get their shows in chunks from their designer. Some of that is due to the portfolio of the designer, but some of that is related to number 2.
I have seen 2 schools of thought on number 2. Some directors like to get the entire show learned and then clean/refine the show for the rest of the season. Some directors would rather learn a movement, clean that movement, then move on to the next chunk of show. Some of that is driven by method and some of that is driven by number 3.
Depending on where you are located (Texas for example) there can be restrictions on practice time. Some groups would rather not spend precious practice time later teaching dots when that time is better used on cleaning/refining a show. Also, when you look at a competitive arc, if you are going to an early “big show” you may want to have more movements ready. Other groups build their seasons (Indiana open class groups) to big shows so they are less concerned about having lots of show early and would rather build to ISSMA competitions in October.
Finally I guess I have a 4th reason…superstition/tradition. You see some groups who just don’t want to put their show out there until the very last moment they have to because they don’t want the competition to see it. I think this is becoming less common, but it still manifests itself in the lack of video available from some groups under the guise of “copyright issues”.
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Post by boahistorybuff on Oct 9, 2022 13:40:26 GMT -6
I think all the above points are accurate.
My experience back in the day is still reflective of how a lot of bands progress today. A lot of time spent in the pre season learning basics. For new members this is of course learning how to march with proper technique and play at the same time. Much of August and early September is then spent learning and cleaning the first half or three quarters of the show. For new members this is also a bit of a learning curve. The September competitions were then an opportunity to get everyone accustomed to performing the show in a competitive setting, which is often easier with a shorter show. Then late September into early October is spent learning the ending. This usually does not take as long as learning the beginning because by this time, all new members are experienced in putting new moves together on the field, so it tends to move along more smoothly. Mid October into early November is then spent cleaning and learning how improve the overall general effect.
Also, a lot of bands want to offer a little new surprises as the season goes on.
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Post by philodemus on Oct 9, 2022 13:47:33 GMT -6
I think that the fear of 'peaking early' is a real concern. I have definitely seen it happen! By spreading out the learning, the kids brains stay engaged and you never have the 'September Juggernaut, Kinda Done in October' phenomenon.
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stix
Full Member
Posts: 29
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Post by stix on Oct 9, 2022 14:14:39 GMT -6
Thanks everyone for your responses! I appreciate you taking the time to provide your insights. I watched TMC yesterday and quite a number of bands had it all on the field but there were some that did not and I thought I would pose the question here to try and gain an understanding of why.
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Post by Jake W. on Oct 9, 2022 14:22:15 GMT -6
All great points. The only thing I'll add is that I've worked with a number of programs who subscribe to each style (get the full show on the field and then clean it vs. adding to a cleaner product as you go), and neither style seems to preclude nor guarantee success. I've learned that my personal teaching style tends to line up with "low & slow", and I really believe that not moving on until something is correct is the better approach; I've worked with too many programs where the full show is learned but then directors have to spend a good chunk of the later season reteaching moves that have been rehearsed incorrectly for a month. Rehearsing even somewhat minor variations wrong still has a major impact on muscle memory, especially with younger students. I say get the opener on the field and make sure it's in the students' collective kinesthetic memories before adding more, then you can refine starting from a much higher unison skill set. But, I've certainly worked with programs where this approach has hindered their season's progress - learning the show is just one component to the season. I'm all for the 'don't move on until everyone's on the same page' approach, but I've worked with many directors who prefer the opposite and have found a lot of success matching that to their cleaning styles.
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Post by MarchingBand4Life on Oct 9, 2022 15:03:24 GMT -6
My kiddo's band started performing the entire show last weekend. Last year, we were in a similar timeline. The music was complete in summer. The drill was written, but not learned. The choreo, however, had not yet been taught. The choreo designer came in town 3x to teach different segments and refine others. Same with the electronics designer.Drillndeagner and music writer have come.in town to review and refine twice. Elements of the show have been basically done, but not competition ready.
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Post by BandHomer on Oct 9, 2022 15:43:17 GMT -6
This is a fascinating topic. Many (most?) of us on HR don’t have the years and breadth of experience in marching arts to know much more than our given bubble as performers or parents or fans.
I’ve only known building a show from summer through fall and only seeing the finished product in the last few weeks of the season. And for sure I’ve never considered the pluses and minuses of the different approaches. I’m feeling all ‘Magic School Bus’ right now. Thank you!
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Post by MarchingBand4Life on Oct 9, 2022 15:57:39 GMT -6
Another component that may be a factor is local requirements. TX, for instance, doesn't allow drill to be started until Aug 1 or later.
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Post by srv1084 on Oct 9, 2022 17:30:26 GMT -6
With shows becoming more and more difficult, it makes sense that so many bands are choosing the slower method of learning their shows. Though I think it goes without saying that experience and commitment to staying with a timeline is incredibly important while taking this approach. It's easy to get hung up on earlier parts of the show if things aren't gelling, putting you in a pinch as you get later in the season.
I was involved with an indoor group that got so hung up on one part of the show that we never managed to get the real ending on the floor. We got to March and so much of every weekend was devoted to shows and travel that there was simply no time to add it. While bands have the benefit of their weekday rehearsals to add to their shows, getting into late October without a finished product makes it difficult to get the product you desire (in most cases).
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Post by ilikeguard on Oct 9, 2022 19:25:36 GMT -6
I was in a band (and know of several highly-competitive, well known bands that also do this due to having the same design team) where the model was "learn everything that we're given as fast as possible and then clean it while waiting for the rest of the show, which sometimes won't be given to us until the week of a contest halfway through the season".
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Post by marimba11 on Oct 10, 2022 11:58:27 GMT -6
It really depends. It varies on regions and even specific bands. California is probably 3 or weeks behind say Indiana /Minnesota bands. In SC there is never a competition until the last week or so of September. Indiana seems to have one right after Labor Day.
DB doesn’t go to early shows anymore because they weren’t useful to them. Makes sense with the level theyre at now. So they just do the competition show slowly and wait until mid Oct. for their first regional. Quite a change from the past. Texas seems to have their routine locked in.
Just kind of depends on many factors it seems.
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Post by dbalash on Oct 10, 2022 12:43:48 GMT -6
Back in my day, the closer would be put on the field around Indy regional weekend (with possibly a fake ending), clean for Nationals. First competition would be the first part of the show, and more would gradually be put on as the season progressed. I honestly can't remember if we even had the coffee cans for "1 2 3 4 5+" on the field for the Indy regional in 2003, or if that was a Nationals addition.
Music and drill was all handwritten (music until my senior year), and we'd usually get new drill on Wednesdays and Saturdays, with rewrites here and there for both music and visual.
See below for 2002 comparison videos. ISU was 10/26, learned the final 2:30 11/2, performed it in Indy, cleanr
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Post by LeanderMomma on Oct 10, 2022 14:25:40 GMT -6
Back in my day, the closer would be put on the field around Indy regional weekend (with possibly a fake ending), clean for Nationals. First competition would be the first part of the show, and more would gradually be put on as the season progressed. I honestly can't remember if we even had the coffee cans for "1 2 3 4 5+" on the field for the Indy regional in 2003, or if that was a Nationals addition. Music and drill was all handwritten (music until my senior year), and we'd usually get new drill on Wednesdays and Saturdays, with rewrites here and there for both music and visual. See below for 2002 comparison videos. ISU was 10/26, learned the final 2:30 11/2, performed it in Indy, cleanr the videos are marked private. :/
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Post by dbalash on Oct 10, 2022 14:39:06 GMT -6
the videos are marked private. :/ I'm not bright. Fixed.
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Post by boahistorybuff on Oct 10, 2022 16:11:26 GMT -6
It was said back in the day that Marian had it down to a science as to how to pace the development and growth of their shows during the course of the season. An early season Marian show was often quite rough but by the time Grand Nationals arrived they would be just be plain awesome. That 2002 finals performance was a perfect example. Such a great performance. It should have been 2nd right behind Lassiter.
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Post by dww256 on Nov 8, 2022 20:58:47 GMT -6
This makes me laugh, because out here in Utah I think I've seen a band show up at the start of the season with unfinished drill a few times, and only rarely one of the higher-tier bands—and we usually begin the season in mid-September! I wonder what bands out here could do if they took it slower.
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