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Post by paddy on Nov 17, 2022 8:30:57 GMT -6
Cleveland would have been 31st if not for a 0.3 penalty, the only penalty issued in this year's Prelims. Does anyone know what it was for? Cleveland's penalty was due to a parent on field not properly displaying their field pass. From what I was told, (the person who told me was told directly by Cleveland's director), was that the parent had it tucked into their shirt pocket before entering the stadium and forgot to take it out. Yes, BOA takes that seriously. As someone who has led bands through the competition flow, I always checked every person with a pass as we entered the tunnel to make sure it was displayed. I also reminded everyone about the sideline picture/video rules. I have found BOA can be serious about this, but most officials have a bit of grace. Must've caught the wrong person in the wrong mood
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Post by hewhowaits on Nov 17, 2022 9:04:15 GMT -6
Cleveland's penalty was due to a parent on field not properly displaying their field pass. From what I was told, (the person who told me was told directly by Cleveland's director), was that the parent had it tucked into their shirt pocket before entering the stadium and forgot to take it out. Yes, BOA takes that seriously. As someone who has led bands through the competition flow, I always checked every person with a pass as we entered the tunnel to make sure it was displayed. I also reminded everyone about the sideline picture/video rules. I have found BOA can be serious about this, but most officials have a bit of grace. Must've caught the wrong person in the wrong mood The credentials are checked repeatedly throughout the flow (entering the building and at each checkpoint during the flow) with reminders that the credentials must be visible when on the field (without needing to be asked). More often than not, if there is a penalty for this it's not a parent but a non-director staff member that fails to display a credential.
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Post by paddy on Nov 17, 2022 9:34:35 GMT -6
As someone who has led bands through the competition flow, I always checked every person with a pass as we entered the tunnel to make sure it was displayed. I also reminded everyone about the sideline picture/video rules. I have found BOA can be serious about this, but most officials have a bit of grace. Must've caught the wrong person in the wrong mood The credentials are checked repeatedly throughout the flow (entering the building and at each checkpoint during the flow) with reminders that the credentials must be visible when on the field (without needing to be asked). More often than not, if there is a penalty for this it's not a parent but a non-director staff member that fails to display a credential. I checked everyone regardless of role. I have suggested stickers be used for field personnel. Having the paper pass hanging around your neck when maneuvering props and equipment is a real pain.
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Post by Subito Fortissimo on Nov 17, 2022 12:40:13 GMT -6
The credentials are checked repeatedly throughout the flow (entering the building and at each checkpoint during the flow) with reminders that the credentials must be visible when on the field (without needing to be asked). More often than not, if there is a penalty for this it's not a parent but a non-director staff member that fails to display a credential. I checked everyone regardless of role. I have suggested stickers be used for field personnel. Having the paper pass hanging around your neck when maneuvering props and equipment is a real pain. The necklace passes are a pain to deal with anytime there is wind too and once you've gotten poked in the face a few times by the sharp corners you get fed up and tuck it into your shirt or a pocket. OTOH stickers always have a tendency to fall off. Would really stink to have to buy a ticket to re-enter the stadium because your sticker fell off and you didn't notice. My suggestion would be pin-on badges.
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Post by paddy on Nov 17, 2022 13:09:10 GMT -6
I checked everyone regardless of role. I have suggested stickers be used for field personnel. Having the paper pass hanging around your neck when maneuvering props and equipment is a real pain. The necklace passes are a pain to deal with anytime there is wind too and once you've gotten poked in the face a few times by the sharp corners you get fed up and tuck it into your shirt or a pocket. OTOH stickers always have a tendency to fall off. Would really stink to have to buy a ticket to re-enter the stadium because your sticker fell off and you didn't notice. My suggestion would be pin-on badges. Buy the right stickers and they aren't going anywhere.
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Post by Allohak on Nov 17, 2022 13:35:53 GMT -6
I checked everyone regardless of role. I have suggested stickers be used for field personnel. Having the paper pass hanging around your neck when maneuvering props and equipment is a real pain. The necklace passes are a pain to deal with anytime there is wind too and once you've gotten poked in the face a few times by the sharp corners you get fed up and tuck it into your shirt or a pocket. OTOH stickers always have a tendency to fall off. Would really stink to have to buy a ticket to re-enter the stadium because your sticker fell off and you didn't notice. My suggestion would be pin-on badges. Use the elastic string to tie the pass onto a beltloop
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Post by Subito Fortissimo on Nov 17, 2022 14:18:05 GMT -6
The necklace passes are a pain to deal with anytime there is wind too and once you've gotten poked in the face a few times by the sharp corners you get fed up and tuck it into your shirt or a pocket. OTOH stickers always have a tendency to fall off. Would really stink to have to buy a ticket to re-enter the stadium because your sticker fell off and you didn't notice. My suggestion would be pin-on badges. Use the elastic string to tie the pass onto a beltloop Nah we can't be logical here.
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Post by paddy on Nov 17, 2022 15:14:17 GMT -6
The necklace passes are a pain to deal with anytime there is wind too and once you've gotten poked in the face a few times by the sharp corners you get fed up and tuck it into your shirt or a pocket. OTOH stickers always have a tendency to fall off. Would really stink to have to buy a ticket to re-enter the stadium because your sticker fell off and you didn't notice. My suggestion would be pin-on badges. Use the elastic string to tie the pass onto a beltloop I've done both. I am so fat you can't see it and I don't want to take a penalty...
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Post by LeanderMomma on Nov 18, 2022 7:36:05 GMT -6
Use the elastic string to tie the pass onto a beltloop I've done both. I am so fat you can't see it and I don't want to take a penalty... I guess we could tattoo it on their foreheads?
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Post by paddy on Nov 18, 2022 8:30:45 GMT -6
I've done both. I am so fat you can't see it and I don't want to take a penalty... I guess we could tattoo it on their foreheads? Seems reasonable.
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Post by philodemus on Nov 18, 2022 8:36:43 GMT -6
All this talk about name tags/field passes reminds me of just how hard it was to adjust to BOA's approach to running a contest when I first started attending their events. I guess the charitable way to say it would be, "They are very organized and expect that of others," and the uncharitable way would be "They are absolutely draconian rule enforcers who adhere to the letter of the law and ignore the spirit."
Like, I come from an old school, Midwest drum corps school of thought where the corps just pulled up to the show and found their own warm up sites--I recall several times knocking on someone's door and asking if we could put a horn arc in their yard for half an hour or so. There was no schedule, no 'your pit goes here for this long, your visual warm up is here for this long...' there was just the one rule that if we heard you in the performance area, it was a penalty, and if you were late for the gate, it was a penalty. And, truth be told, those rules weren't enforced all that precisely, the contest director would just give you a stern look and tell you not to do it again. The general vibe was camaraderie: "We're all on the same team here, so nobody be an a-hole." And generally speaking it worked! No one was an a-hole.
In the local band world, there was a bit more structure [can't play outside the warm up area or outside your designated half hour] but not much... everyone knew that no penalty would be assessed for at least the first two weekends while folks were still figuring out how to set up the pit on time and stuff. Contest hosts would just come over and say, "Hey, I was supposed to assess this penalty here, but I didn't... just look out for that at State." You could call it a Good Ol' Boys Network, but to me it was just keeping the main thing the main thing and not getting hung up on the minutia of the rule book.
Compare that to BOA! You must be exactly here at exactly this time, your truck will drop off in this 15 minute window, your visual arm up will be in this place for this many minutes... and we will start judging you at exactly this second even if you're still running onto the field or you're having a massive electronics break down... even if you starting 30 seconds late doesn't slow down the next band coming on.
I mean, on one level I get it: these are huge events that are hard to organize and we need to keep the timetable going. But, like, penalizing a band because one of the adults didn't have a tag on in the right way? Come on, that's putting the cart before the horse.
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Post by hewhowaits on Nov 18, 2022 8:46:45 GMT -6
I've done both. I am so fat you can't see it and I don't want to take a penalty... I guess we could tattoo it on their foreheads? Problem is, they're different for each day of prelims, for semifinals, and for finals.
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Post by thewho on Nov 18, 2022 8:50:30 GMT -6
All this talk about name tags/field passes reminds me of just how hard it was to adjust to BOA's approach to running a contest when I first started attending their events. I guess the charitable way to say it would be, "They are very organized and expect that of others," and the uncharitable way would be "They are absolutely draconian rule enforcers who adhere to the letter of the law and ignore the spirit." Like, I come from an old school, Midwest drum corps school of thought where the corps just pulled up to the show and found their own warm up sites--I recall several times knocking on someone's door and asking if we could put a horn arc in their yard for half an hour or so. There was no schedule, no 'your pit goes here for this long, your visual warm up is here for this long...' there was just the one rule that if we heard you in the performance area, it was a penalty, and if you were late for the gate, it was a penalty. And, truth be told, those rules weren't enforced all that precisely, the contest director would just give you a stern look and tell you not to do it again. The general vibe was camaraderie: "We're all on the same team here, so nobody be an a-hole." And generally speaking it worked! No one was an a-hole. In the local band world, there was a bit more structure [can't play outside the warm up area or outside your designated half hour] but not much... everyone knew that no penalty would be assessed for at least the first two weekends while folks were still figuring out how to set up the pit on time and stuff. Contest hosts would just come over and say, "Hey, I was supposed to assess this penalty here, but I didn't... just look out for that at State." You could call it a Good Ol' Boys Network, but to me it was just keeping the main thing the main thing and not getting hung up on the minutia of the rule book. Compare that to BOA! You must be exactly here at exactly this time, your truck will drop off in this 15 minute window, your visual arm up will be in this place for this many minutes... and we will start judging you at exactly this second even if you're still running onto the field or you're having a massive electronics break down... even if you starting 30 seconds late doesn't slow down the next band coming on. I mean, on one level I get it: these are huge events that are hard to organize and we need to keep the timetable going. But, like, penalizing a band because one of the adults didn't have a tag on in the right way? Come on, that's putting the cart before the horse. I understand the difference. However, BOA has tend be pretty lenient in terms of enforcing rules as long as the bands move in good faith (e.g. still in warm-up past end time, but the kids are moving to pick up their bottles and move to form formation otherwise). The tag issue is one thing BOA has refused to bend on all season, though. It was made clear to all volunteers and staff that the tags would be enforced very strictly from the first regional all the way through to GN. This communication of enforcement has been made clear to directors through all documents, reminders, email blasts, etc. Volunteers asked parents to display field passes before entering. I'm sorry to say, but if the band was assessed penalties for not displaying their passes immediately, it was deserved this year.
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Post by Allohak on Nov 18, 2022 8:53:01 GMT -6
When it comes to field passes, they are needed because there are still groups who try to have more adults moving equipment on/off the field than the same-for-everyone number even with allowances for additional passes being purchased if a group so chooses
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Post by philodemus on Nov 18, 2022 8:55:47 GMT -6
The tag issue is one thing BOA has refused to bend on all season, though. It was made clear to all volunteers and staff that the tags would be enforced very strictly from the first regional all the way through to GN. This communication of enforcement has been made clear to directors through all documents, reminders, email blasts, etc. Volunteers asked parents to display field passes before entering. I'm sorry to say, but if the band was assessed penalties for not displaying their passes immediately, it was deserved this year. That's fair, I suppose... but any idea why this would be such a priority this season? I mean... have there been tons of folks trying to bluff their way onto the field? EDIT: Never mind, Allohak just answered the question.
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Post by thewho on Nov 18, 2022 8:58:37 GMT -6
The tag issue is one thing BOA has refused to bend on all season, though. It was made clear to all volunteers and staff that the tags would be enforced very strictly from the first regional all the way through to GN. This communication of enforcement has been made clear to directors through all documents, reminders, email blasts, etc. Volunteers asked parents to display field passes before entering. I'm sorry to say, but if the band was assessed penalties for not displaying their passes immediately, it was deserved this year. That's fair, I suppose... but any idea why this would be such a priority this season? I mean... have there been tons of folks trying to bluff their way onto the field? EDIT: Never mind, Allohak just answered the question. Trust me, you'd be surprised at the amount.
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Post by 70sguardchick on Nov 18, 2022 9:14:22 GMT -6
That's fair, I suppose... but any idea why this would be such a priority this season? I mean... have there been tons of folks trying to bluff their way onto the field? EDIT: Never mind, Allohak just answered the question. Trust me, you'd be surprised at the amount. Yup. Also, Hi! it was nice to meet everyone last weekend.
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Post by thewho on Nov 18, 2022 9:15:40 GMT -6
Trust me, you'd be surprised at the amount. Yup. Also, Hi! it was nice to meet everyone last weekend. It was lovely seeing you too!!! So glad we managed to meet!
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Post by 70sguardchick on Nov 18, 2022 9:17:17 GMT -6
If you have ever been in the warmup area or the tunnels during the heat of the competition, you'd know why there is a strict schedule. It's Grand Central Station down there, with one pit headed this way to warm up and another headed that way to the performance field. Props the size of storage containers are wending their way around hallways, sharing space with guard girls carrying multiple flags and rifles. most bands have at least one semi and three or four box trucks, and the lot space isn't infinite. Everyone knows the rules going in, and enforcing them consistently is the goal. It also helps the many volunteers running the warmup timing, lot flow, etc. They don't have to make judgement calls or listen to directors try to get 5 more minutes - the schedule is set.
Yeah, the lanyard thing is a pain in the rear, and my prop crew husband hates them. Keeping access control across multiple days of competition kind of requires them, though - There are so many levels of passes, wristbands and credentials each day, and each day can have different colors and different access levels. Keeping all that strict and consistent allows BOA to deal with the bigger issues that come up - injuries, illnesses, transportation breakdowns, broken instruments - and ensure the playing field is equal for everyone. You don't see the behind the scenes scramble, but know that staff and volunteers are almost always looking to help bands deal with challenges and do their best within the rules. (fyi - I'm not staff, just someone who spent all weekend backstage volunteering and going from basement tunnels to suite levels.)
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Post by LeanderMomma on Nov 18, 2022 12:22:28 GMT -6
I guess we could tattoo it on their foreheads? Problem is, they're different for each day of prelims, for semifinals, and for finals. they can wash off with a special towelette provided by BOA? 🤭
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Post by paddy on Nov 18, 2022 13:15:10 GMT -6
Problem is, they're different for each day of prelims, for semifinals, and for finals. they can wash off with a special towelette provided by BOA? 🤭 And sponsored by Yamaha/FJM/Music Travel
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