glmain
Junior Member
Posts: 16
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Post by glmain on Nov 14, 2022 18:07:00 GMT -6
This is in no way meant to devalue the hard work and talent of anyone, merely to point out the obvious; it's very difficult for a HS marching band to reach the highest levels of BOA without substantial monetary resources. The couple of notable exceptions on this list either have exceptional community support, or are a performing arts magnet school. Everyone worked hard and performed fantastically, but I would like to take a moment and consider the thousands of band students who were inherently limited by socio-economic circumstance. Do what you can to help those students that need it the most, vote for spreading funding around to school districts that sorely need it (I'll note that every school is a public school, no charters here...).
Source is US Census Bureau for everyone but Castle, which required some extra digging, I'm very open to corrections if anyone finds something. First number is Median household income, second is poverty rate. Yes, I am very aware these numbers aren't perfectly representing the situation, but I could pick any metric and I'm sure the results would be similar. Order is sort of ascending finals, but I know I got some wrong, don't worry about it.
National average: $70784, 11.6%
Castle - Newburgh, Indiana: $68750, 6.41%.
Prosper - Prosper, Texas: $153777, 2.5%
Hendrickson - Pflugerville, Texas: $95471, 4.8%
Fishers - Fishers, Indiana: $108361, 2.9%
Brownsburg - Brownsburg, Indiana: $89089, 5.4%
Southlake Carrol - Southlake, Texas: $223621, 1.9%
Dobyns-Bennett - Kingsport, Tennessee: $42066, 19.7%
Tarpon Springs - Tarpon Springs, Florida: $53713, 11.5%
Mason - Mason, Ohio: $104462, 2.9%
Broken Arrow - Broken Arrow, Oklahoma: $74070, 8.4%
Avon - Avon, Indiana: $93352, 3.6%
Carmel - Carmel, Indiana: $115109, 3.1%
I want to reiterate, that the only purpose of my post is to bring to light something we all know to be true, but sometimes don't want to acknowledge; economic inequality affects everything from health outcomes to music education. If you want to help give more students opportunities like perform in LOS to a packed crowd, support politicians that are putting more money in public schools that need it. Go band, and here's to another great marching season!
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Post by boahistorybuff on Nov 14, 2022 19:54:34 GMT -6
Can you look at these metrics for communities that once had national powerhouse programs? These are the ones I am curious about.
Morgan Hill, CA
Gonzalez, FL
Flushing, MI
Chesterton, IN
Irwin and North Huntingdon, PA
Rocky Mount, NC
Camillus, NY
Cicero and North Syracuse, NY
Liverpool, NY
Radcliff, KY
Westerville, OH
Pearl, MS
Canton Townshp and Plymouth, MI
Centerville, OH
Spring, TX
Duncanville, TX
Roselle, IL
Marietta, GA
Westmoreland County, PA
Greenwood, IN
I know it's a lot.
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glmain
Junior Member
Posts: 16
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Post by glmain on Nov 14, 2022 20:29:11 GMT -6
Can you look at these metrics for communities that once had national powerhouse programs? These are the ones I am curious about. Morgan Hill, CA Gonzalez, FL Flushing, MI Chesterton, IN Irwin and North Huntingdon, PA Rocky Mount, NC Camillus, NY Cicero and North Syracuse, NY Liverpool, NY Radcliff, KY Westerville, OH Pearl, MS Canton Townshp and Plymouth, MI Centerville, OH Spring, TX Duncanville, TX Roselle, IL Marietta, GA Westmoreland County, PA Greenwood, IN I know it's a lot. Haha I can take a look tomorrow for sure. Now you've got me curious! |
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Post by srv1084 on Nov 14, 2022 20:36:49 GMT -6
Interesting stuff. It's kind of amazing to see what a school like Dobyns-Bennett is able to produce year after year. I'm particularly curious what their fundraising efforts and outreach looks like, as I have to imagine they're not getting a ton of direct funding.
On a slightly different note, I had at one point this season started a list of schools that had been in the weekly rankings (along with regular BOA participants) and their respective national high school rankings according to the US News & World Report lists. I made a comment at one point about those school rankings and my curiosity got the better of me, wondering if there was any correlation with top schools and the arts. I may try to wrap that up and post it here as well if there's any interest.
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Post by das88 on Nov 14, 2022 20:58:51 GMT -6
This is in no way meant to devalue the hard work and talent of anyone, merely to point out the obvious; it's very difficult for a HS marching band to reach the highest levels of BOA without substantial monetary resources. The couple of notable exceptions on this list either have exceptional community support, or are a performing arts magnet school. Everyone worked hard and performed fantastically, but I would like to take a moment and consider the thousands of band students who were inherently limited by socio-economic circumstance. Do what you can to help those students that need it the most, vote for spreading funding around to school districts that sorely need it (I'll note that every school is a public school, no charters here...). Source is US Census Bureau for everyone but Castle, which required some extra digging, I'm very open to corrections if anyone finds something. First number is Median household income, second is poverty rate. Yes, I am very aware these numbers aren't perfectly representing the situation, but I could pick any metric and I'm sure the results would be similar. Order is sort of ascending finals, but I know I got some wrong, don't worry about it. National average: $70784, 11.6% Castle - Newburgh, Indiana: $68750, 6.41%. Prosper - Prosper, Texas: $153777, 2.5% Hendrickson - Pflugerville, Texas: $95471, 4.8% Fishers - Fishers, Indiana: $108361, 2.9% Brownsburg - Brownsburg, Indiana: $89089, 5.4% Southlake Carrol - Southlake, Texas: $223621, 1.9% Dobyns-Bennett - Kingsport, Tennessee: $42066, 19.7% Tarpon Springs - Tarpon Springs, Florida: $53713, 11.5% Mason - Mason, Ohio: $104462, 2.9% Broken Arrow - Broken Arrow, Oklahoma: $74070, 8.4% Avon - Avon, Indiana: $93352, 3.6% Carmel - Carmel, Indiana: $115109, 3.1% I want to reiterate, that the only purpose of my post is to bring to light something we all know to be true, but sometimes don't want to acknowledge; economic inequality affects everything from health outcomes to music education. If you want to help give more students opportunities like perform in LOS to a packed crowd, support politicians that are putting more money in public schools that need it. Go band, and here's to another great marching season! How about Lake Travis, Westlake, Highland Park HS in TX. |
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Post by Jake W. on Nov 14, 2022 21:10:29 GMT -6
glmain, fascinating statistics!! Marching band at the top levels is flat out a wealthy community's activity and there is really no other way to slice it. There are a number of examples for sure of underprivileged programs succeeding, and I love that, but the large swath of top marching bands in the country are each from the wealthiest suburbs of their respective states. No one has brought it up yet, but I get into this discussion frequently, which is why money allows bands to be competitive. Everyone always says it's because the rich schools can afford tons of props and the best designers, and that is slightly true, but I think most people get it wrong in assuming that's the important causal relationship. Wealthy schools are the ones that are successful because of two major factors: ****private lessons**** (I cannot stress this enough), and parental support. The percentage of students in private lessons, and the root of it being the percentage of families who can afford that extra $100/month, is truly, truly the dividing line in terms of success on the field (and off). And this isn't just urban vs. suburban: poor rural areas, which is where I have primarily taught, factor just as heavily into this. You also have places like Texas and Indiana, where cost of living is still relatively cheap, where your middle class families aren't stretched to the max with day to day living costs, and can still pop out money for private lessons without much thought. It's not props, or staff, or designers - it all comes down to the percentage of families in the district that are able to provide private lessons. To a lesser extent, the other hidden factor is parental support. Bands simply do not survive without parents to sew flags, feed kids, volunteer as medical staff for rehearsals, organize fundraisers, volunteer at concession stands, run the invitational, etc. I don't believe any marching band in this country could survive without massive parental support groups in the form of booster organizations. Districts with lower-SES families often have one or both parents working multiple jobs, a wayyyy lower percentage of stay at home/work from home/part-time-work parents who can volunteer their time, and many more parents who work in sectors that require more evening or weekend hours vs. 9:00-5:00 office jobs of the upper middle class. That's less parents cheering at the competition, less volunteers, and less parental recourses (both mental & physical) that are stretched thinner across the board. Despite exceptions, marching band at the highest levels (and medium-high levels!) is a wealthy suburban activity, but it's not for the reasons most assume (props & designers). And I do think it's important to note that the disadvantages that are dealt to districts of low-SES families affect both urban & rural districts in the same way.
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Post by Jake W. on Nov 14, 2022 21:55:30 GMT -6
Can you look at these metrics for communities that once had national powerhouse programs? These are the ones I am curious about. Morgan Hill, CA Gonzalez, FL Flushing, MI Chesterton, IN Irwin and North Huntingdon, PA Rocky Mount, NC Camillus, NY Cicero and North Syracuse, NY Liverpool, NY Radcliff, KY Westerville, OH Pearl, MS Canton Townshp and Plymouth, MI Centerville, OH Spring, TX Duncanville, TX Roselle, IL Marietta, GA Westmoreland County, PA Greenwood, IN I know it's a lot. I'm going to contradict my prior post a bit, but I know for sure some of these areas remain wealthy and their schools well-funded. Money is an incredible bastion that does tend to separate the wheat from the chaff, but similar to how there are great examples of underprivileged programs making it, so too are there examples of well-buttressed programs flailing, proving that it isn't just the resources you have, but putting it all together, too. On the converse of that, though, the deck is really stacked against a competent director without a bevy of resources at hand. Not that they can't overcome. Center Grove (unincorporated Greenwood, or White River Township of Johnson County), is still quite a wealthy area. Home values are higher than ever, and regularly sell for similar prices as comparable homes on the wealthy north side (Fishers, Carmel, Westfield, Noblesville, Zionsville). I've read a few times on these forums that admin at CG doesn't support the arts like it once did, but I find that hard to believe; it has always been an incredibly arts-focused school district with still-thriving competitive show choirs, massive theater programs, and great middle school music (and, hell, among the best winter drumlines & winter guards in the country!). I haven't lived in Indiana for a good decade, so take my skepticism on the claims regarding admin priority shifts with a grain of salt, but to me, this seems like a classic case of terrific funding, great support, and somehow a director(s) or staff that just can't pull it together on the field. Chesterton is slightly more middle class, but still very much one of the wealthier suburban community in "Da Region". They have had the same directors since the early 00s who just don't seem too interested in fielding large or competitive bands, for whatever reason. There are other schools like this - great funding coupled with leadership who don't know how to implement those resources. Zionsville (IN) is a terrific example. Westfield, Brownsburg, & Noblesville were all great examples at one time - the resources were there, each program just needed a competent director to come in and implement them all correctly, and then each skyrocketed up in progress when they got said person(s) in. I don't know TX economic geography as well as others, but it seems like Stony Point may be in a similar position? Same with some of the North Side ISD schools that are further out in suburban San Antonio? Maybe Lewisville, The Colony, Little Elm, Lake Dallas, and the other wealthier north side DFW suburbs? Maybe too some of the Clears, Cypresses, or Katy schools that don't match 7 Lakes or JET/Clear Brook/Cypress Woods or Fair levels either despite being in the same well-funded suburban districts. Don't get me wrong, some directors (TWCollege Park comes to mind) just flat out aren't interested in shifting the focus from concert band, and I totally respect that, but with others, I think...wow, you get the same resources as your sister schools, and they do 10x more with them. So, again, not just about what you have, which is exceptionally important, but what you do with it. |
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glmain
Junior Member
Posts: 16
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Post by glmain on Nov 14, 2022 22:18:54 GMT -6
Can you look at these metrics for communities that once had national powerhouse programs? These are the ones I am curious about. Morgan Hill, CA Gonzalez, FL Flushing, MI Chesterton, IN Irwin and North Huntingdon, PA Rocky Mount, NC Camillus, NY Cicero and North Syracuse, NY Liverpool, NY Radcliff, KY Westerville, OH Pearl, MS Canton Townshp and Plymouth, MI Centerville, OH Spring, TX Duncanville, TX Roselle, IL Marietta, GA Westmoreland County, PA Greenwood, IN I know it's a lot. I'm going to contradict my prior post a bit, but I know for sure some of these areas remain wealthy and their schools well-funded. Money is an incredible bastion that does tend to separate the wheat from the chaff, but similar to how there are great examples of underprivileged programs making it, so too are there examples of well-buttressed programs flailing, proving that it isn't just the resources you have, but putting it all together, too. On the converse of that, though, the deck is really stacked against a competent director without a bevy of resources at hand. Not that they can't overcome. Center Grove (unincorporated Greenwood, or White River Township of Johnson County), is still quite a wealthy area. Home values are higher than ever, and regularly sell for similar prices as comparable homes on the wealthy north side (Fishers, Carmel, Westfield, Noblesville, Zionsville). I've read a few times on these forums that admin at CG doesn't support the arts like it once did, but I find that hard to believe; it has always been an incredibly arts-focused school district with still-thriving competitive show choirs, massive theater programs, and great middle school music (and, hell, among the best winter drumlines & winter guards in the country!). I haven't lived in Indiana for a good decade, so take my skepticism on the claims regarding admin priority shifts with a grain of salt, but to me, this seems like a classic case of terrific funding, great support, and somehow a director(s) or staff that just can't pull it together on the field. Chesterton is slightly more middle class, but still very much one of the wealthier suburban community in "Da Region". They have had the same directors since the early 00s who just don't seem too interested in fielding large or competitive bands, for whatever reason. There are other schools like this - great funding coupled with leadership who don't know how to implement those resources. Zionsville (IN) is a terrific example. Westfield, Brownsburg, & Noblesville were all great examples at one time - the resources were there, each program just needed a competent director to come in and implement them all correctly, and then each skyrocketed up in progress when they got said person(s) in. I don't know TX economic geography as well as others, but it seems like Stony Point may be in a similar position? Same with some of the North Side ISD schools that are further out in suburban San Antonio? Maybe Lewisville, The Colony, Little Elm, Lake Dallas, and the other wealthier north side DFW suburbs? Maybe too some of the Clears, Cypresses, or Katy schools that don't match 7 Lakes or JET/Clear Brook/Cypress Woods or Fair levels either despite being in the same well-funded suburban districts. Don't get me wrong, some directors (TWCollege Park comes to mind) just flat out aren't interested in shifting the focus from concert band, and I totally respect that, but with others, I think...wow, you get the same resources as your sister schools, and they do 10x more with them. So, again, not just about what you have, which is exceptionally important, but what you do with it. Absolutely! Seconded basically everything you said. But it is essentially a prerequisite that you have some way to put together a substantial amount of resources, whether that's through mass community engagement (likely Dobyns-Bennett) or just make every kid pay over a grand in band fees. Also the point about private lessons is so true, believe me, as a private lessons teacher I'm only too aware 😅 |
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Post by 4score on Nov 14, 2022 23:24:46 GMT -6
This is in no way meant to devalue the hard work and talent of anyone, merely to point out the obvious; it's very difficult for a HS marching band to reach the highest levels of BOA without substantial monetary resources. The couple of notable exceptions on this list either have exceptional community support, or are a performing arts magnet school. Everyone worked hard and performed fantastically, but I would like to take a moment and consider the thousands of band students who were inherently limited by socio-economic circumstance. Do what you can to help those students that need it the most, vote for spreading funding around to school districts that sorely need it (I'll note that every school is a public school, no charters here...). Source is US Census Bureau for everyone but Castle, which required some extra digging, I'm very open to corrections if anyone finds something. First number is Median household income, second is poverty rate. Yes, I am very aware these numbers aren't perfectly representing the situation, but I could pick any metric and I'm sure the results would be similar. Order is sort of ascending finals, but I know I got some wrong, don't worry about it. National average: $70784, 11.6% Castle - Newburgh, Indiana: $68750, 6.41%. Prosper - Prosper, Texas: $153777, 2.5% Hendrickson - Pflugerville, Texas: $95471, 4.8% Fishers - Fishers, Indiana: $108361, 2.9% Brownsburg - Brownsburg, Indiana: $89089, 5.4% Southlake Carrol - Southlake, Texas: $223621, 1.9% Dobyns-Bennett - Kingsport, Tennessee: $42066, 19.7% Tarpon Springs - Tarpon Springs, Florida: $53713, 11.5% Mason - Mason, Ohio: $104462, 2.9% Broken Arrow - Broken Arrow, Oklahoma: $74070, 8.4% Avon - Avon, Indiana: $93352, 3.6% Carmel - Carmel, Indiana: $115109, 3.1% I want to reiterate, that the only purpose of my post is to bring to light something we all know to be true, but sometimes don't want to acknowledge; economic inequality affects everything from health outcomes to music education. If you want to help give more students opportunities like perform in LOS to a packed crowd, support politicians that are putting more money in public schools that need it. Go band, and here's to another great marching season! So cool to look at this! I am shocked about DB. |
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Post by philodemus on Nov 15, 2022 9:00:56 GMT -6
Just to brag a bit on our Kentucky groups I wanted to point out that a number of our BOA participants are doing a lot considering the resources available. Just a note: I used the county numbers for school districts that serve the entire county [BoCo, Adair], the city for the small independents [Murray, Beech]. North Hardin is odd because it serves part of a county, which includes parts of a city [Elizabethtown] so that might be throwing off the numbers.
Adair - Adair County, KY - $43, 026 - 22.1%
Campbell County - Campbell County, KY - $63, 152 - 10.6%
Beechwood - Ft. Mitchell, KY - $72, 376 - 4.2%
Bourbon County - Bourbon County, KY - $47, 024 - 14.1%
Murray - Murray, KY - $31, 827 - 26.6%
North Hardin - Hardin County, KY - $57, 101 - 11.2%
As you can see, only Beech is above the national average for household income, essentially being an affluent suburb of Cincinnati but even they aren't 'rich' next to the Finalists. I was surprised to see Murray was the lowest household income and highest poverty rate since they have the rep of being the 'rich' town in their region, but it could be the college kids are pulling those numbers down being 'temporary poor' while in school... not sure about that. I know Adair didn't attend Nationals this year, but if you know their history, I really want you to look at those numbers and think about what they've been able to do, historically, while 1 in 5 of their students was living below the poverty line. I've sat in the stands with enough Adair fans to know those are blue collar folks who are busting their tails to produce a great band program for their kids.
I know talking about this stuff isn't as fun as discussing brass sonority or visual design, but I do think we should keep it in mind.
Now, if we really want to stir up some hard conversation, we should touch the other third rail of marching arts discussion... how are we doing on the racial diversity side of things?
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Post by alywa on Nov 15, 2022 9:10:30 GMT -6
National average: $70784, 11.6% Castle - Newburgh, Indiana: $68750, 6.41%. Prosper - Prosper, Texas: $153777, 2.5% Hendrickson - Pflugerville, Texas: $95471, 4.8% Fishers - Fishers, Indiana: $108361, 2.9% Brownsburg - Brownsburg, Indiana: $89089, 5.4% Southlake Carrol - Southlake, Texas: $223621, 1.9% Dobyns-Bennett - Kingsport, Tennessee: $42066, 19.7% Tarpon Springs - Tarpon Springs, Florida: $53713, 11.5% Mason - Mason, Ohio: $104462, 2.9% Broken Arrow - Broken Arrow, Oklahoma: $74070, 8.4% Avon - Avon, Indiana: $93352, 3.6% Carmel - Carmel, Indiana: $115109, 3.1% This is outstanding information, I appreciate your collation of it. I'm a first year band parent from Kingsport, TN and attended the GN for the first time this past weekend. I heard this topic discussed among many of the parents... I'm honestly surprised at the disparity here. What I can tell you is that Kingsport loves its band. Yes, I know everyone does, but its intense here. Many alumni and alumni parents remain involved long after their kids have graduated. We fill the stadium stands for preview and sendoff shows. A good portion of the fans leave the football games after halftime, primarily coming to see the band. I explain it to friends that live elsewhere that as Karate is to "The Valley" (Cobra Kai reference), band is to Kingsport. We really don't have much competition in the region (or state), so the regional and SR contests are our only chance to strut our stuff. Like any community, there are large divisions in SES... we have many engineers (Eastman Chemical is located here), and of course the supporting physicians, attorneys, educators, etc. Many of us can afford private lessons and good instruments... some can't. Thankfully the school district supports the band very well through excellent loaner instruments and outstanding music educators in both the middle and high schools. The band is always fundraising... thankfully local businesses and the community are receptive. Like every parent, student and person in this community I'm incredibly proud of our band and their performance. AAA National Champs isn't anything to sneeze at, and we all look forward to someday cracking into that final upper tier. |
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Post by boahistorybuff on Nov 15, 2022 9:20:43 GMT -6
What I expect will be shown by looking at the community demographics of past powerhouse marching band programs is that their socio economic indicators are much lower than most of the top level bands of today (certainly not all of course). Many of these communities are full of older suburban homes where housing and property values are lower than newer high end suburban communities. Most of these communities of past powerhouse programs were however higher on the socioeconomic ladder during the time period in which their band programs were top in the nation.
Looking at the stats for 2022, Kingsport TN is quite unique as to how it supports a national power like Dobyns-Bennett.
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Post by dbbandalum on Nov 15, 2022 13:12:17 GMT -6
I feel like I am somewhat qualified to explain Dobyns-Bennett's situation lol. A big reason for the band's size and funding that I don't really see anyone point out is that DB is the only high school in Kingsport. Now it's not uncommon for there to be one-high-school towns, especially in the Appalachias, but usually these towns are pretty small. Kingsport has a population of around 55 thousand, which isn't large by any means, but it's large for a one-high-school town. This means that DB gets a large amount of funding despite being in a less affluent area compared to the rest of the finalist bands. This becomes clear when you look at DB on Google Earth and see the brand-new science building, college level football and basketball stadiums, tennis courts, a paved practice field, and then see multiple low-income neighborhoods right across the street from the campus.
Another reason is Kingsport itself. Kingsport is a city that has a strong community that is built on tradition. It holds multiple community festivals, parades, and has a bustling downtown area where concerts are regularly played. There are multiple long-standing traditions like the Santa train, Fun Fest, taste of tri-cities, etc. The city places so much importance on tradition that simply changing the time of the Christmas parade was controversial. This love for tradition and community involvement played a part in the band's success almost immediately. The DB band was formed in 1926 with 45 students and started out as just a marching band. For many years the band had a tradition of parading through the streets of downtown Kingsport before football games to excite residents for the “big game.” This is largely what created the tradition of large community support for the band. During World War II, the band would gather to send off Kingsport Servicemen as they left for service. The band would also participate in a parade to honor the school’s graduates every spring.
Lastly, there are a lot of people who have lived in Kingsport their whole lives. Lots of kids in the band today have parents and grandparents who graduated from DB who still show up and support the band. For this reason, if you ever visit Kingsport, you'll see that the community doesn't only support the band, but the entire school. Some of you would probably think you're in an SEC college town by how much DB paraphernalia you'd see as you drove through the city. There is even a club of old people that meet every week just to discuss DB football.
I may not have explained it as well as others can, but this whole post can basically be boiled down to "DB is successful because it is in Kingsport." I think the best example of the strength of the community support is DB seemingly improving after the pandemic when we saw a lot of other top programs take massive hits. Besides graduation, the band didn't lose a single student during the pandemic and the community participated in massive fundraising efforts to keep the program afloat. This is why I believe that DB is in a unique position where their program won't be affected too much by director changes or budget cuts. The DB band will be great so long as the Kingsport community wills it so.
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Post by dbbandalum on Nov 15, 2022 13:17:21 GMT -6
Also I forgot to mention, a lot of the reasons for DB's success can be applied to all of the class A schools from Kentucky. There's nothing better than a community who loves its band!
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Post by philodemus on Nov 15, 2022 14:03:54 GMT -6
Also I forgot to mention, a lot of the reasons for DB's success can be applied to all of the class A schools from Kentucky. There's nothing better than a community who loves its band! It sounds to me like Kingsport is an example of what I call a Band Town: i.e., a place where the marching band has been A Thing for multiple generations and has become a part of the community's sense of self. A place where it tends to run in families, where little kids are asked what instrument they want to play when they're old enough... and their aunts and uncles start trying to convince them to play what they did. The kind of town where multiple members of the color guard are on the Prom Court and where the newspaper covers band competitions on the Sports page. You can have a great band without being a band town, and Band Towns don't always win, but what makes a Band Town is the connection it has with its community. Kentucky is blessed to have several--Murray is the Platonic ideal of one--and there are a few others around the BOA circuit that I suspect must be but my knowledge is incomplete. For instance, I have never been to Centerville, OH, but it's connection to the Jazz seems to run very, very deep. I would imagine boahistorybuff would be able to name a few more 'Band Towns' around the country? |
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Post by boahistorybuff on Nov 15, 2022 14:05:51 GMT -6
I feel like I am somewhat qualified to explain Dobyns-Bennett's situation lol. A big reason for the band's size and funding that I don't really see anyone point out is that DB is the only high school in Kingsport. Now it's not uncommon for there to be one-high-school towns, especially in the Appalachias, but usually these towns are pretty small. Kingsport has a population of around 55 thousand, which isn't large by any means, but it's large for a one-high-school town. This means that DB gets a large amount of funding despite being in a less affluent area compared to the rest of the finalist bands. This becomes clear when you look at DB on Google Earth and see the brand-new science building, college level football and basketball stadiums, tennis courts, a paved practice field, and then see multiple low-income neighborhoods right across the street from the campus. Another reason is Kingsport itself. Kingsport is a city that has a strong community that is built on tradition. It holds multiple community festivals, parades, and has a bustling downtown area where concerts are regularly played. There are multiple long-standing traditions like the Santa train, Fun Fest, taste of tri-cities, etc. The city places so much importance on tradition that simply changing the time of the Christmas parade was controversial. This love for tradition and community involvement played a part in the band's success almost immediately. The DB band was formed in 1926 with 45 students and started out as just a marching band. For many years the band had a tradition of parading through the streets of downtown Kingsport before football games to excite residents for the “big game.” This is largely what created the tradition of large community support for the band. During World War II, the band would gather to send off Kingsport Servicemen as they left for service. The band would also participate in a parade to honor the school’s graduates every spring. Lastly, there are a lot of people who have lived in Kingsport their whole lives. Lots of kids in the band today have parents and grandparents who graduated from DB who still show up and support the band. For this reason, if you ever visit Kingsport, you'll see that the community doesn't only support the band, but the entire school. Some of you would probably think you're in an SEC college town by how much DB paraphernalia you'd see as you drove through the city. There is even a club of old people that meet every week just to discuss DB football. I may not have explained it as well as others can, but this whole post can basically be boiled down to "DB is successful because it is in Kingsport." I think the best example of the strength of the community support is DB seemingly improving after the pandemic when we saw a lot of other top programs take massive hits. Besides graduation, the band didn't lose a single student during the pandemic and the community participated in massive fundraising efforts to keep the program afloat. This is why I believe that DB is in a unique position where their program won't be affected too much by director changes or budget cuts. The DB band will be great so long as the Kingsport community wills it so. I love the information here. It also explains why I have found DB in competition records way back in the early 1970s. I should also note that the eastern Tennesee, western Virginia and western North Carolina region has long been a haven for competitive marching bands, many of them developed competitive corp style programs in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Many of these bands found success in the early MBA years. This includes the 1979 Grand National Champion Sylva-Webster HS, North Carolina; John S Battle HS from Bristol, Virginia a Grand National finalist in 1981; and Tuscola HS from Waynesville, North Carolina a Grand National finalist in 1982 and 1983. Also keep in mind that the 1981, 1982 and 1983 Grand National Championships were held in Johnson City TN. |
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Post by dbbandalum on Nov 15, 2022 14:07:14 GMT -6
Also I forgot to mention, a lot of the reasons for DB's success can be applied to all of the class A schools from Kentucky. There's nothing better than a community who loves its band! It sounds to me like Kingsport is an example of what I call a Band Town: i.e., a place where the marching band has been A Thing for multiple generations and has become a part of the community's sense of self. A place where it tends to run in families, where little kids are asked what instrument they want to play when they're old enough... and their aunts and uncles start trying to convince them to play what they did. The kind of town where multiple members of the color guard are on the Prom Court and where the newspaper covers band competitions on the Sports page. You can have a great band without being a band town, and Band Towns don't always win, but what makes a Band Town is the connection it has with its community. Kentucky is blessed to have several--Murray is the Platonic ideal of one--and there are a few others around the BOA circuit that I suspect must be but my knowledge is incomplete. For instance, I have never been to Centerville, OH, but it's connection to the Jazz seems to run very, very deep. I would imagine boahistorybuff would be able to name a few more 'Band Towns' around the country? You hit the nail on the head with your description! |
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Post by dbbandalum on Nov 15, 2022 14:11:56 GMT -6
I feel like I am somewhat qualified to explain Dobyns-Bennett's situation lol. A big reason for the band's size and funding that I don't really see anyone point out is that DB is the only high school in Kingsport. Now it's not uncommon for there to be one-high-school towns, especially in the Appalachias, but usually these towns are pretty small. Kingsport has a population of around 55 thousand, which isn't large by any means, but it's large for a one-high-school town. This means that DB gets a large amount of funding despite being in a less affluent area compared to the rest of the finalist bands. This becomes clear when you look at DB on Google Earth and see the brand-new science building, college level football and basketball stadiums, tennis courts, a paved practice field, and then see multiple low-income neighborhoods right across the street from the campus. Another reason is Kingsport itself. Kingsport is a city that has a strong community that is built on tradition. It holds multiple community festivals, parades, and has a bustling downtown area where concerts are regularly played. There are multiple long-standing traditions like the Santa train, Fun Fest, taste of tri-cities, etc. The city places so much importance on tradition that simply changing the time of the Christmas parade was controversial. This love for tradition and community involvement played a part in the band's success almost immediately. The DB band was formed in 1926 with 45 students and started out as just a marching band. For many years the band had a tradition of parading through the streets of downtown Kingsport before football games to excite residents for the “big game.” This is largely what created the tradition of large community support for the band. During World War II, the band would gather to send off Kingsport Servicemen as they left for service. The band would also participate in a parade to honor the school’s graduates every spring. Lastly, there are a lot of people who have lived in Kingsport their whole lives. Lots of kids in the band today have parents and grandparents who graduated from DB who still show up and support the band. For this reason, if you ever visit Kingsport, you'll see that the community doesn't only support the band, but the entire school. Some of you would probably think you're in an SEC college town by how much DB paraphernalia you'd see as you drove through the city. There is even a club of old people that meet every week just to discuss DB football. I may not have explained it as well as others can, but this whole post can basically be boiled down to "DB is successful because it is in Kingsport." I think the best example of the strength of the community support is DB seemingly improving after the pandemic when we saw a lot of other top programs take massive hits. Besides graduation, the band didn't lose a single student during the pandemic and the community participated in massive fundraising efforts to keep the program afloat. This is why I believe that DB is in a unique position where their program won't be affected too much by director changes or budget cuts. The DB band will be great so long as the Kingsport community wills it so. I love the information here. It also explains why I have found DB in competition records way back in the early 1970s. I should also note that the eastern Tennesee, western Virginia and western North Carolina region has long been a haven for competitive marching bands, many of them developed competitive corp style programs in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Many of these bands found success in the early MBA years. This includes the 1979 Grand National Champion Sylva-Webster HS, North Carolina; John S Battle HS from Bristol, Virginia a Grand National finalist in 1981; and Tuscola HS from Waynesville, North Carolina a Grand National finalist in 1982 and 1983. Also keep in mind that the 1981, 1982 and 1983 Grand National Championships were held in Johnson City TN. I would love to see the records of DB competing in the early 70s! That surprises me because that's around the time DB was more known for its concert band than its marching band. |
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Post by boahistorybuff on Nov 15, 2022 14:44:10 GMT -6
DB was a frequent finalist during the early years of the MTSU Contest of Champions and were even runner up in 1968. In my search of records for Sylva-Webster, I also stumbled across DB in other local contests in the 1970s. I started my research online a good 20 years ago, so there are a lot of web pages that just dont exist anymore.
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Post by dbbandalum on Nov 17, 2022 14:34:25 GMT -6
Here's a video I found of DB's director talking about the community support and navigating the pandemic. Lots of good insights! He starts talking at around 3 minutes.
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Post by hostrauser on Nov 24, 2022 11:52:26 GMT -6
Can you look at these metrics for communities that once had national powerhouse programs? These are the ones I am curious about. Morgan Hill, CA Gonzalez, FL Flushing, MI Chesterton, IN Irwin and North Huntingdon, PA Rocky Mount, NC Camillus, NY Cicero and North Syracuse, NY Liverpool, NY Radcliff, KY Westerville, OH Pearl, MS Canton Townshp and Plymouth, MI Centerville, OH Spring, TX Duncanville, TX Roselle, IL Marietta, GA Westmoreland County, PA Greenwood, IN I know it's a lot. I can do the poverty rate part by school, based on the numbers submitted to the DOE. Morgan Hill, CA * Ann Sobrato H.S. - 28.46% * Live Oak H.S. - 41.33% Gonzalez, FL * J.M. Tate H.S. - 47.86% Flushing, MI * Flushing H.S. - 42.01% Chesterton, IN * Chesterton H.S. - 23.13% Irwin and North Huntingdon, PA * Norwin H.S. - 14.82% Rocky Mount, NC * Nash Central H.S. - 39.72% * Northern Nash H.S. - 32.33% * Rocky Mount H.S. - 99.72% (not a typo) Camillus, NY * West Genessee H.S. - N/A Cicero and North Syracuse, NY * Cicero-North Syracuse H.S. - 32.41% Liverpool, NY * Liverpool H.S. - 33.88% Radcliff, KY * North Hardin H.S. - 43.86% Westerville, OH * Westerville Central H.S. - N/A * Westerville North H.S. - N/A * Westerville South H.S. - N/A Pearl, MS * Pearl H.S. - 99.73% (again, not a typo) Canton Townshp and Plymouth, MI * Canton H.S. - 15.36% * Plymouth H.S. - 15.23% * Salem H.S. - 16.65% Centerville, OH * Centerville H.S. - N/A Spring, TX * Klein Collins H.S. - 39.69% * Klein Oak H.S. - 34.46% * Spring H.S. - 76.57% Duncanville, TX * Duncanville H.S. - 79.23% Roselle, IL * Lake Park H.S. - N/A Marietta, GA * Kell H.S. - 28.27% * Lassiter H.S. - 8.17% * Marietta H.S. - 51.77% * Osborne H.S. - 75.93% * Pope H.S. - 5.34% * Sprayberry H.S. - 30.73% * Walton H.S. - 3.36% * Wheeler H.S. - 34.27% Westmoreland County, PA (dozens of schools, but I'm assuming you want...) * Kiski Area H.S. - 28.31% Greenwood, IN * Center Grove H.S. - 16.27% * Greenwood Community H.S. - 39.05% |
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Post by saxeshead on Nov 25, 2022 0:28:56 GMT -6
Also I forgot to mention, a lot of the reasons for DB's success can be applied to all of the class A schools from Kentucky. There's nothing better than a community who loves its band! It sounds to me like Kingsport is an example of what I call a Band Town: i.e., a place where the marching band has been A Thing for multiple generations and has become a part of the community's sense of self. A place where it tends to run in families, where little kids are asked what instrument they want to play when they're old enough... and their aunts and uncles start trying to convince them to play what they did. The kind of town where multiple members of the color guard are on the Prom Court and where the newspaper covers band competitions on the Sports page. You can have a great band without being a band town, and Band Towns don't always win, but what makes a Band Town is the connection it has with its community. Kentucky is blessed to have several--Murray is the Platonic ideal of one--and there are a few others around the BOA circuit that I suspect must be but my knowledge is incomplete. For instance, I have never been to Centerville, OH, but it's connection to the Jazz seems to run very, very deep. I would imagine boahistorybuff would be able to name a few more 'Band Towns' around the country? the Centerville community’s relationship with The Centerville Jazz Band is a bit hazy at times, as far as i can tell. But the Band’s connection to Jazz is very solid, as is the community’s enjoyment of it. When you hear about the history of the CJB as a member, you rarely hear much about anything before 1984, since that’s the year the band program’s previous director came and changed up the band entirely. From what I know, he changed the style and theme of the marching band, put the band in BOA, and renamed us from The Centerville High School Marching band to the ever-butchered name, The Centerville Jazz Band. We then changed our game and a portion of the marching arts world by playing exclusively Big Band music for all our shows after that throughout the 80s-early2000s. We love our Jazz, and we welcome the challenges and obstacle and setbacks we face playing music that often goes unplayed in the greater world of the marching arts (we’ve had a judge outright tell us “Jazz doesn’t belong on the field.” From what I know, he was fired. Although apparently we got another judge this year who dislikes Jazz on the field. But we get back up again! We won the whole thing in ‘92 by changing things up and doing a show based around a funk band, and we’ve loved keeping up that that type of variety and creativity ever since! I love Centerville and I love talking about it, if that wasn’t evident by the mini-paragraph. Overall I’d say Centerville has a large underground band town living in it. |
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Post by boahistorybuff on Nov 25, 2022 4:33:36 GMT -6
Can you look at these metrics for communities that once had national powerhouse programs? These are the ones I am curious about. Morgan Hill, CA Gonzalez, FL Flushing, MI Chesterton, IN Irwin and North Huntingdon, PA Rocky Mount, NC Camillus, NY Cicero and North Syracuse, NY Liverpool, NY Radcliff, KY Westerville, OH Pearl, MS Canton Townshp and Plymouth, MI Centerville, OH Spring, TX Duncanville, TX Roselle, IL Marietta, GA Westmoreland County, PA Greenwood, IN I know it's a lot. I can do the poverty rate part by school, based on the numbers submitted to the DOE. Morgan Hill, CA * Ann Sobrato H.S. - 28.46% * Live Oak H.S. - 41.33% Gonzalez, FL * J.M. Tate H.S. - 47.86% Flushing, MI * Flushing H.S. - 42.01% Chesterton, IN * Chesterton H.S. - 23.13% Irwin and North Huntingdon, PA * Norwin H.S. - 14.82% Rocky Mount, NC * Nash Central H.S. - 39.72% * Northern Nash H.S. - 32.33% * Rocky Mount H.S. - 99.72% (not a typo) Camillus, NY * West Genessee H.S. - N/A Cicero and North Syracuse, NY * Cicero-North Syracuse H.S. - 32.41% Liverpool, NY * Liverpool H.S. - 33.88% Radcliff, KY * North Hardin H.S. - 43.86% Westerville, OH * Westerville Central H.S. - N/A * Westerville North H.S. - N/A * Westerville South H.S. - N/A Pearl, MS * Pearl H.S. - 99.73% (again, not a typo) Canton Townshp and Plymouth, MI * Canton H.S. - 15.36% * Plymouth H.S. - 15.23% * Salem H.S. - 16.65% Centerville, OH * Centerville H.S. - N/A Spring, TX * Klein Collins H.S. - 39.69% * Klein Oak H.S. - 34.46% * Spring H.S. - 76.57% Duncanville, TX * Duncanville H.S. - 79.23% Roselle, IL * Lake Park H.S. - N/A Marietta, GA * Kell H.S. - 28.27% * Lassiter H.S. - 8.17% * Marietta H.S. - 51.77% * Osborne H.S. - 75.93% * Pope H.S. - 5.34% * Sprayberry H.S. - 30.73% * Walton H.S. - 3.36% * Wheeler H.S. - 34.27% Westmoreland County, PA (dozens of schools, but I'm assuming you want...) * Kiski Area H.S. - 28.31% Greenwood, IN * Center Grove H.S. - 16.27% * Greenwood Community H.S. - 39.05% This must be a different metric used in determining poverty rate as these are way too high based on the standard Census Bureau definition with the average US Poverty rate around 11.6% |
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Post by boahistorybuff on Nov 25, 2022 5:38:03 GMT -6
So first off, let me reiterate that those communities that had powerhouse marching band programs in the past are not impoverished communities today. In fact most are far from it. I simply believe that many of them (not all) do not rank as high on the economic indicators as they did during the era in which they had programs that were among the top in the country.
I could not find what the communities ranking were 30 or 40 years ago. I also cannot find the stats for individual school districts, which is of course going to be a little different from the city in which the high school is located, usually higher as the higher end neighborhoods tend to be outside city limits.
Per US Census Bureau - for the entire US Poverty rate - 11.6%; per capita income (I think it may be a little better metric than median which will be higher) $35,384
The indicators for communities that once had top level marching band programs (poverty rate; per capita income based on 2021 estimates which factors current inflation trends):
West Genesee HS
Camillus NY - 5.9%; $37,223
Cicero North Syracuse HS
Cicero NY - 5.9%; $38, 195
North Syracuse NY - 13.1%; $29,729
Norwin HS
North Huntingdon Township PA - 4.9%; $38,962
Rocky Mount HS
Rocky Mount NC - 19.7%; $24,544
JM Tate HS
Gonzalez FL - 2.4%; $32,909
Pearl HS
Pearl MS - 10.4%; $26,094
North Hardin HS
Radcliff KY - 18.8%; $24,014
George Rogers Clark HS
Winchester KY - 21.8%; $26,732
Centerville HS
Centerville OH - 5.8%; $43,228
Westerville South HS
Westerville OH - 5.3%; $41,397
Plymouth Canton EP
Plymouth City MI - 2.6%; $56,480
Plymouth Township MI - 4.9%; $50,995
Canton Township MI - 6.4%; $44,092
Flushing
Flushing City MI - 9.3%; $32,823
Flushing Township MI - 6.6%; $37,866
Chesterton
Chesterton IN - 10.3%; $42,773
Lake Park
Roselle IL - 4.4%; $40,589
Duncanville
Duncanville, TX - 12.7%; $25,873
Spring and Westfield
Spring Census Designated Place, TX - 10.7%; $28,855
Live Oak
Morgan Hill, CA - 4.2%; $52,038
Now for communities that have national powers today...
Wando
Mount Pleasant SC - 5.1%; $58,409
Tarpon Springs (much grain of salt here as this is a magnate school)
Tarpon Springs FL - 11.5%; $40,398
Dobyns-Bennett
Kingsport TN - 19.7%; $30,275
William Mason
Mason OH - 2,9%; $52,446
Carmel
Carmel IN - 3.1%; $60,329
Fishers
Fishers IN - 2.9%; $50,208
Brownsburg
Brownsburg IN - 5.4%; $37,078
Avon
Avon IN - 3.6%; $40,854
Blue Springs
Blue Springs MO - 4.9%; $33,345
Broken Arrow
Broken Arrow OK - 8.4%; $55,753
Hebron/Marcus/Flower Mound
Carrolton TX - 6.5%; $39,604
Flower Mound TX - 3.8%; $55,101
Lewisville TX - 10.0%; $32,266
Prosper
Prosper TX - 2.5%; $56,082
Southlake Carroll
Southlake TX - 1.9%; $87,415
The Woodlands
The Woodlands Census Designated Place TX - 3.5%; $65,017
Round Rock/Cedar Ridge
Round Rock TX - 6.2%; $37,131
Hendrickson/Pflugerville
Pflugerville TX - 4.8%; $38,448
Leander/Cedar Park/Vista Ridge/Rouse/Vandegrift (portion)
Leander TX - 4.3%; $40,373
Cedar Park TX - 5.2%; $43,743
The other thing to factor in is that the power house programs of today are typically from larger high schools/communities which means there is a larger number of students from families that fall into the higher income brackets.
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Post by boahistorybuff on Nov 25, 2022 6:32:28 GMT -6
Also I forgot to mention, a lot of the reasons for DB's success can be applied to all of the class A schools from Kentucky. There's nothing better than a community who loves its band! It sounds to me like Kingsport is an example of what I call a Band Town: i.e., a place where the marching band has been A Thing for multiple generations and has become a part of the community's sense of self. A place where it tends to run in families, where little kids are asked what instrument they want to play when they're old enough... and their aunts and uncles start trying to convince them to play what they did. The kind of town where multiple members of the color guard are on the Prom Court and where the newspaper covers band competitions on the Sports page. You can have a great band without being a band town, and Band Towns don't always win, but what makes a Band Town is the connection it has with its community. Kentucky is blessed to have several--Murray is the Platonic ideal of one--and there are a few others around the BOA circuit that I suspect must be but my knowledge is incomplete. For instance, I have never been to Centerville, OH, but it's connection to the Jazz seems to run very, very deep. I would imagine boahistorybuff would be able to name a few more 'Band Towns' around the country? There are so many examples of 'band towns' across the country. Many of the so called band towns that I think you are describing are smaller communities that have had a competitive marching band for many decades. This results in a lot of community involvement/support for the band program because a lot of members of the community have ties to the program. Of course, it does not always have to be a small community. From what I can tell, Broken Arrow OK is a pretty good example of a band town (or should I say band city). Yes, Kingsport TN is another great example (more of a band city) as is the small town of Murray, Kentucky. There are some examples that I can think of where a band that was at one time a really strong program has maintained strong community support which has allowed the school to continue to have a highly competitive marching band, even if the success of the band is nowhere near what it once was. These are communities that have not had to deal with things like the addition of new high schools or a huge influx of people that have no connection to the past history of the community or its high school marching band's legacy. Some of the examples I can think of include: Herscher IL, Columbia KY (Adair County), Winchester KY (George Rogers Clark), New Philadelphia OH, Camillus NY (West Genesee) and Pearl MS. I was in the Flushing marching band during my high school years. Flushing is a small suburban community outside of Flint, MI. The success of my band during the 1970s and early 1980s was a source of great pride within the community. During the school's economic hardships during the early/mid 1980s, community fundraising efforts conducted by the band boosters organization really kept the program afloat and prevented a complete collapse of the marching band. Even though the band is not a BOA level competitor these days (and has not been for many years), community support has certainly helped to maintain a competitive marching band that is still able to do well on the MCBA circuit. In fact, Flushing is one of if not the oldest actively competitive bands in the MCBA circuit. A lot of the longevity can be attributed to the community support as there are now multiple generations living in Flushing who were once members of the band. I actually think that had the band not entered the competitive scene until much later and had not had the level of success it had had in its early years, it is very possibly that the marching band would not be in the MCBA circuit today, which is the circuit for the top-level bands in the state. |
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Post by philodemus on Nov 25, 2022 9:17:02 GMT -6
I love the idea of an 'underground band town'! Like, a secret society of marching arts appreciators... I'd join! Edited to Add: Centerville, by the way, is always on my list of 'must see' groups at Grand Nats. Much love and respect for the Jazz from someone who has no connection at all... just a fan of the show style, and of 'band towns' in general. |
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Post by philodemus on Nov 25, 2022 9:41:07 GMT -6
It sounds to me like Kingsport is an example of what I call a Band Town: i.e., a place where the marching band has been A Thing for multiple generations and has become a part of the community's sense of self. A place where it tends to run in families, where little kids are asked what instrument they want to play when they're old enough... and their aunts and uncles start trying to convince them to play what they did. The kind of town where multiple members of the color guard are on the Prom Court and where the newspaper covers band competitions on the Sports page. You can have a great band without being a band town, and Band Towns don't always win, but what makes a Band Town is the connection it has with its community. Kentucky is blessed to have several--Murray is the Platonic ideal of one--and there are a few others around the BOA circuit that I suspect must be but my knowledge is incomplete. For instance, I have never been to Centerville, OH, but it's connection to the Jazz seems to run very, very deep. I would imagine boahistorybuff would be able to name a few more 'Band Towns' around the country? There are so many examples of 'band towns' across the country. Many of the so called band towns that I think you are describing are smaller communities that have had a competitive marching band for many decades. This results in a lot of community involvement/support for the band program because a lot of members of the community have ties to the program. Of course, it does not always have to be a small community. From what I can tell, Broken Arrow OK is a pretty good example of a band town (or should I say band city). Yes, Kingsport TN is another great example (more of a band city) as is the small town of Murray, Kentucky. There are some examples that I can think of where a band that was at one time a really strong program has maintained strong community support which has allowed the school to continue to have a highly competitive marching band, even if the success of the band is nowhere near what it once was. These are communities that have not had to deal with things like the addition of new high schools or a huge influx of people that have no connection to the past history of the community or its high school marching band's legacy. Some of the examples I can think of include: Herscher IL, Columbia KY (Adair County), Winchester KY (George Rogers Clark), New Philadelphia OH, Camillus NY (West Genesee) and Pearl MS. I was in the Flushing marching band during my high school years. Flushing is a small suburban community outside of Flint, MI. The success of my band during the 1970s and early 1980s was a source of great pride within the community. During the school's economic hardships during the early/mid 1980s, community fundraising efforts conducted by the band boosters organization really kept the program afloat and prevented a complete collapse of the marching band. Even though the band is not a BOA level competitor these days (and has not been for many years), community support has certainly helped to maintain a competitive marching band that is still able to do well on the MCBA circuit. In fact, Flushing is one of if not the oldest actively competitive bands in the MCBA circuit. A lot of the longevity can be attributed to the community support as there are now multiple generations living in Flushing who were once members of the band. I actually think that had the band not entered the competitive scene until much later and had not had the level of success it had had in its early years, it is very possibly that the marching band would not be in the MCBA circuit today, which is the circuit for the top-level bands in the state. Very interesting stuff! Flushing sounds like my kind of town, and actually reminds me of another 'band town' locally: Danville, KY, who also experienced a great deal of success on the BOA circuit in the late '70s, early '80s, then kind of withdrew from the national scene while remaining important in the state circuit. The weird thing there is that the passion for things sort of migrated to their crosstown rivals, Boyle County, though Danville itself had periodic revivals. And, come to think of it, that description would have worked pretty well for Murray until the 2021 return to Nationals: late 1970s national momentum that they rode for decades as a state circuit power. It's something I consider when I see all these undeniably awesome groups from Texas every year at Nationals... but sometimes the school is less than 5 years old. They're amazing and I love them... but my heart will always be with the programs whose students were raised in a tradition going back generations. When the kids have letter jackets that look just like their parents'... that's the program I will root for, every time. |
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 25, 2022 11:54:29 GMT -6
What is the major factor in Southlake Carrolls numbers?
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Post by boahistorybuff on Nov 25, 2022 13:17:38 GMT -6
What is the major factor in Southlake Carrolls numbers? I am sure one of our DFW area members can give more specifics. From what I read about Southlake, it has a booming economy and is close to both Dallas and Fort Worth. I also read it has the highest income levels in the entire Dallas Fort Worth metro region. |
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Post by LeanderMomma on Nov 25, 2022 17:24:24 GMT -6
What is the major factor in Southlake Carrolls numbers? From Veranda.com Southlake, Texas—known for its exemplary public schools (one of which has won eight football state championships)—is the richest city in the United States for 2022, according to 24/7 Wall St., which used five-year estimates of median household income from the U.S. Census Bureau’s 2019 American Community Survey (ACS). With a median household income of $240,248, Southlake’s population earns shockingly more than the average American household, which posted a median income of $69,560 in 2019 (a 15.3 percent increase from the 2017 median of $60,336, which we had previously reported on). (That said, the latest five-year ACS accounts for years 2014–2018. Since then, the 2020 median household income has been reported as $67,521, a 2.9 percent decrease since 2019, which is due largely in part to the COVID-19 pandemic.) One reason for Southlake's wealth? The city boasts a population in which 69.7 percent of adult residents have at least a bachelor’s degree. While that may seem quite high, it’s surprisingly ranked only 57th of the 1,775 cities evaluated. Additionally the city boasts the 11th lowest poverty rate, at just 2.5 percent. Together, these two factors—high college education and low poverty rates—are common among America’s richest cities |
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