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Post by banddadguy on Nov 13, 2022 16:48:50 GMT -6
Oh, because you said so..... Just because it has been somewhere, doesn't mean it can't grow with the art. If you don't like dissenting opinions, then you move on. But people don't have to drop it just because you want them to. Grand Nationals were held in the Hoosier Dome for many years before it got torn down and Lucas Oil Stadium built (again, taking significantly into account what BOA/MFA and DCI wanted out of the stadium whilst designing and constructing). Factually, Indy did grow with the activity. I don't mind you stating you want the GN's in a different place. Many people do. The matter of the fact is that many people (including those from Texas) that had been a part of the Indy Super/Grand Nationals experience fully agree that Indy offers and supports so many niche needs of the events. There is a reason why people believe it is very unlikely to move the event away from LOS and Indianapolis. Valid. Just looking for an economically more inclusive way more bands can make the trip. I think there are a lot of bands most people nationally have never seen that would be great to be introduced to everyone on a bigger scale. Appreciate the insight.
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Post by josephbandfan on Nov 13, 2022 16:54:14 GMT -6
^this. I agree it’s great where it is. San Antonio held 83 bands or whatever yes, but LOS is FAR superior in every way. San Antonio is a beautiful city, but the walk to the stadium is…not the safest. I’m very grateful that my boyfriend was with me because we were approached a few times just walking back and forth from our hotel. There are hotels much closer in St. Louis if you pay for them, but I have a very hard time seeing a future where the stadium is rescued from its rapidly approaching fate. I stayed at an airbnb a few minutes from the stadium and there was a drive by shooting down the street one night. The worst part is, we weren't even phased by it . Just stood on the balcony and watched the ambulance and police do their thing.
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Post by hewhowaits on Nov 13, 2022 17:12:54 GMT -6
The Indiana Convention Center is also within walking distance, which is where many bands rehearse. That place is huge and contains enough space to for at least two bands to rehearse at the same time Your point is valid, but you're thinking too small. There are spaces large enough for six bands using a full field each simultaneously as well as other spaces for music-only or guard-only rehearsals.
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Post by abtwitch on Nov 13, 2022 17:33:35 GMT -6
The location discussion has been had to death and beyond. Indianapolis is the only viable option and will remain so until another city near enough to the population center of the country builds a top-class indoor performance facility taking acoustics into account within its design, ample affordable hotel accommodations, ease of pedestrian traffic, nearby indoor rehearsal space, local direct support for the pageantry arts as a whole, etc etc etc etc etc There's good reason Indy is the annual home to so many large events, conventions, and the like. Everybody keeps repeating the talking point that they took "accoustics into account within its design", but nobody can actually articulate what is different about this stadium than others that makes it so. Let's just say I am very skeptical that a stadium, built for purposes of football, would sacrifice anything (even a small increase in cost) to cater to the marching arts. They most definitely designed the stadium so that the fan noise best reaches the field when the Indianapolis Colts are on defense. In my opinion, for band, any open air venue is going to be far superior to an indoor one. I agree that outdoor would be preferable, but why domes are always used for Grand Nationals and Super Regionals is because the cost of canceling/postponing those events for both MFA and the performers is massive. It needs to be inside out of necessity, not preference. It was literally snowing in Indianapolis this weekend and the contest went just as smoothly as it normally would, the same could not be said for an outdoor venue in the slightest. Also yes, DCI and MFA did consult with Indianapolis University and the city themselves during the construction of LOS and forgive me for not being a acoustic engineer, but I could not tell you what makes it better. Just know that people aren't talking out their butts when they say that, but also know that most of us aren't acoustic engineers either. DCI and MFA do bring a lot of business to both the dome and the city during their events when it would otherwise be being used for absolutely nothing, of course they'd listen.
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Post by ilikeguard on Nov 13, 2022 17:37:09 GMT -6
In my opinion, for band, any open air venue is going to be far superior to an indoor one. This guy has never tossed a flag before
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Post by hewhowaits on Nov 13, 2022 17:49:59 GMT -6
In my opinion, for band, any open air venue is going to be far superior to an indoor one. This guy has never tossed a flag before bandsquirrel32 said for band. That flag stuff is just "auxiliary." 😉
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Post by baricrazy on Nov 13, 2022 17:52:11 GMT -6
I'm not educated enough about venues to make any claim that it should be moved, but maybe it should taken into consideration that the population center of the U.S. probably doesn't equate to the population center of marching band? Considering how dominant Texas is overall, one that is geographically closer to Texas would be far more inclusive, even if that means that Texas seems overrepresented (IMO, at least).
Also, I'm a biased Oklahoman, so I feel the need to include that the band that got 12th at Oklahoma's state competition, Deer Creek, was only a few spots out from semifinals at Grand Nats. Plenty of semifinalist (+ a few finalist) level bands in Oklahoma, many of which are essentially unheard of from a national perspective. Not just Texas would benefit from more recognition. Obviously LOS is a very top-tier venue by comparison and I have absolutely no solution lol.
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Post by ilikeguard on Nov 13, 2022 17:55:21 GMT -6
This guy has never tossed a flag before bandsquirrel32 said for band. That flag stuff is just "auxiliary." 😉 Hahaha right. But for real, while I know that the ensemble is going to sound better in open air, it’s a nightmare logistically. Also…GN is on the cusp of winter. The band will sound just as bad if not worse when they’re freezing to death. We have weather up here! There could be wind, rain, snow, obnoxious muscle cars driving by on the highway…just way too many variables that make me willing to accept the dome echo.
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Post by ilikeguard on Nov 13, 2022 18:01:41 GMT -6
I'm not educated enough about venues to make any claim that it should be moved, but maybe it should taken into consideration that the population center of the U.S. probably doesn't equate to the population center of marching band? Considering how dominant Texas is overall, one that is geographically closer to Texas would be far more inclusive, even if that means that Texas seems overrepresented (IMO, at least). Also, I'm a biased Oklahoman, so I feel the need to include that the band that got 12th at Oklahoma's state competition, Deer Creek, was only a few spots out from semifinals at Grand Nats. Plenty of semifinalist (+ a few finalist) level bands in Oklahoma that many people aren't aware of. Not just Texas would benefit from more recognition. Obviously LOS is a very top-tier venue by comparison and I have absolutely no solution lol. I have a feeling MFA will pounce on the proposed Nashville dome. It’s within a reasonable distance of…practically every potential GN finalist, excluding the ones deeper in TX. Imagine getting DFW, OK, IN, IL, KY, OH, and TN bands, plus AR bands like Bentonville, bands out of the Carolinas, maybe even a couple of FL bands…it wouldn’t just replace St. Louis, it’d give GN a run for its money.
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Post by abtwitch on Nov 13, 2022 18:02:28 GMT -6
I'm not educated enough about venues to make any claim that it should be moved, but maybe it should taken into consideration that the population center of the U.S. probably doesn't equate to the population center of marching band? Considering how dominant Texas is overall, one that is geographically closer to Texas would be far more inclusive, even if that means that Texas seems overrepresented (IMO, at least). Also, I'm a biased Oklahoman, so I feel the need to include that the band that got 12th at Oklahoma's state competition, Deer Creek, was only a few spots out from semifinals at Grand Nats. Plenty of semifinalist (+ a few finalist) level bands in Oklahoma, many of which are essentially unheard of from a national perspective. Not just Texas would benefit from more recognition. Obviously LOS is a very top-tier venue by comparison and I have absolutely no solution lol. Oklahoma desperately needs its own regional and it has forever, I'm lost on why it hasn't happened yet!
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Post by vidal28rdg on Nov 13, 2022 18:03:55 GMT -6
I'm not educated enough about venues to make any claim that it should be moved, but maybe it should taken into consideration that the population center of the U.S. probably doesn't equate to the population center of marching band? Considering how dominant Texas is overall, one that is geographically closer to Texas would be far more inclusive, even if that means that Texas seems overrepresented (IMO, at least). Also, I'm a biased Oklahoman, so I feel the need to include that the band that got 12th at Oklahoma's state competition, Deer Creek, was only a few spots out from semifinals at Grand Nats. Plenty of semifinalist (+ a few finalist) level bands in Oklahoma, many of which are essentially unheard of from a national perspective. Not just Texas would benefit from more recognition. Obviously LOS is a very top-tier venue by comparison and I have absolutely no solution lol. Oklahoma desperately needs its own regional and it has forever, I'm lost on why it hasn't happened yet! just do it, Nike did
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Post by vidal28rdg on Nov 13, 2022 18:12:49 GMT -6
I'm not educated enough about venues to make any claim that it should be moved, but maybe it should taken into consideration that the population center of the U.S. probably doesn't equate to the population center of marching band? Considering how dominant Texas is overall, one that is geographically closer to Texas would be far more inclusive, even if that means that Texas seems overrepresented (IMO, at least). Also, I'm a biased Oklahoman, so I feel the need to include that the band that got 12th at Oklahoma's state competition, Deer Creek, was only a few spots out from semifinals at Grand Nats. Plenty of semifinalist (+ a few finalist) level bands in Oklahoma that many people aren't aware of. Not just Texas would benefit from more recognition. Obviously LOS is a very top-tier venue by comparison and I have absolutely no solution lol. I have a feeling MFA will pounce on the proposed Nashville dome. It’s within a reasonable distance of…practically every potential GN finalist, excluding the ones deeper in TX. Imagine getting DFW, OK, IN, IL, KY, OH, and TN bands, plus AR bands like Bentonville, bands out of the Carolinas, maybe even a couple of FL bands…it wouldn’t just replace St. Louis, it’d give GN a run for its money. funny enough, the distances starting in DFW and SA from both St.Louis and Nashville are practically identical distances from each other, for Texas bands the travel time from here to Nashville would be identical to a St. Louis trip so this is spot on haha. Basically just swapping trips for different locales
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Post by paddy on Nov 13, 2022 18:20:58 GMT -6
I'm not educated enough about venues to make any claim that it should be moved, but maybe it should taken into consideration that the population center of the U.S. probably doesn't equate to the population center of marching band? Considering how dominant Texas is overall, one that is geographically closer to Texas would be far more inclusive, even if that means that Texas seems overrepresented (IMO, at least). Also, I'm a biased Oklahoman, so I feel the need to include that the band that got 12th at Oklahoma's state competition, Deer Creek, was only a few spots out from semifinals at Grand Nats. Plenty of semifinalist (+ a few finalist) level bands in Oklahoma that many people aren't aware of. Not just Texas would benefit from more recognition. Obviously LOS is a very top-tier venue by comparison and I have absolutely no solution lol. I have a feeling MFA will pounce on the proposed Nashville dome. It’s within a reasonable distance of…practically every potential GN finalist, excluding the ones deeper in TX. Imagine getting DFW, OK, IN, IL, KY, OH, and TN bands, plus AR bands like Bentonville, bands out of the Carolinas, maybe even a couple of FL bands…it wouldn’t just replace St. Louis, it’d give GN a run for its money. Do we know anything about the support spaces? It would still be ideal for their to be indoor warmups for Nashville at GN time.
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Post by thewho on Nov 13, 2022 18:33:17 GMT -6
I have a feeling MFA will pounce on the proposed Nashville dome. It’s within a reasonable distance of…practically every potential GN finalist, excluding the ones deeper in TX. Imagine getting DFW, OK, IN, IL, KY, OH, and TN bands, plus AR bands like Bentonville, bands out of the Carolinas, maybe even a couple of FL bands…it wouldn’t just replace St. Louis, it’d give GN a run for its money. Do we know anything about the support spaces? It would still be ideal for their to be indoor warmups for Nashville at GN time. As far news go, there has been nothing announced whatsoever other than the intent to build a new stadium. Renderings were released with the caveat the architects haven't been hired yet. I think it's super exciting and I'm sure BOA/MFA is looking at the stadium as a possibility, but everyone, let's not jump the gun yet on this.
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Post by hewhowaits on Nov 13, 2022 18:38:46 GMT -6
I'm not educated enough about venues to make any claim that it should be moved, but maybe it should taken into consideration that the population center of the U.S. probably doesn't equate to the population center of marching band? Considering how dominant Texas is overall, one that is geographically closer to Texas would be far more inclusive, even if that means that Texas seems overrepresented (IMO, at least). Also, I'm a biased Oklahoman, so I feel the need to include that the band that got 12th at Oklahoma's state competition, Deer Creek, was only a few spots out from semifinals at Grand Nats. Plenty of semifinalist (+ a few finalist) level bands in Oklahoma, many of which are essentially unheard of from a national perspective. Not just Texas would benefit from more recognition. Obviously LOS is a very top-tier venue by comparison and I have absolutely no solution lol. Oklahoma desperately needs its own regional and it has forever, I'm lost on why it hasn't happened yet! Inertia is a real factor. There is a major local invitational just about every weekend during the bulk of BOA season. The Oklahoma bands support each other's events which are a real source of funding, so how do you decide which one to negatively impact by scheduling a BOA event on the same weekend?
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Post by baricrazy on Nov 13, 2022 18:43:38 GMT -6
I'm not educated enough about venues to make any claim that it should be moved, but maybe it should taken into consideration that the population center of the U.S. probably doesn't equate to the population center of marching band? Considering how dominant Texas is overall, one that is geographically closer to Texas would be far more inclusive, even if that means that Texas seems overrepresented (IMO, at least). Also, I'm a biased Oklahoman, so I feel the need to include that the band that got 12th at Oklahoma's state competition, Deer Creek, was only a few spots out from semifinals at Grand Nats. Plenty of semifinalist (+ a few finalist) level bands in Oklahoma, many of which are essentially unheard of from a national perspective. Not just Texas would benefit from more recognition. Obviously LOS is a very top-tier venue by comparison and I have absolutely no solution lol. Oklahoma desperately needs its own regional and it has forever, I'm lost on why it hasn't happened yet! Agreed! Jenks, Mustang, Bixby, Owasso, Bentonville, perhaps BA, and other OK, AR, north TX, and MO bands, pretty competitive group right in town! All of which would have been in grand nats semis this year, IMO.
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Post by baricrazy on Nov 13, 2022 18:45:49 GMT -6
Oklahoma desperately needs its own regional and it has forever, I'm lost on why it hasn't happened yet! Inertia is a real factor. There is a major local invitational just about every weekend during the bulk of BOA season. The Oklahoma bands support each other's events which are a real source of funding, so how do you decide which one to negatively impact by scheduling a BOA event on the same weekend? That is a really good point. BA, Owasso, Union, Mustang, and Bixby all host a competition, along with other events.
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Post by paddy on Nov 13, 2022 18:51:44 GMT -6
Do we know anything about the support spaces? It would still be ideal for their to be indoor warmups for Nashville at GN time. As far news go, there has been nothing announced whatsoever other than the intent to build a new stadium. Renderings were released with the caveat the architects haven't been hired yet. I think it's super exciting and I'm sure BOA/MFA is looking at the stadium as a possibility, but everyone, let's not jump the gun yet on this. Just asking a question. It is ok to have discussion without you telling us what to talk about.
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Post by thewho on Nov 13, 2022 18:55:09 GMT -6
As far news go, there has been nothing announced whatsoever other than the intent to build a new stadium. Renderings were released with the caveat the architects haven't been hired yet. I think it's super exciting and I'm sure BOA/MFA is looking at the stadium as a possibility, but everyone, let's not jump the gun yet on this. Just asking a question. It is ok to have discussion without you telling us what to talk about. Certainly. The latter half wasn't directed towards you, just the general public.
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Post by mhmm on Nov 13, 2022 20:00:44 GMT -6
Grand Nationals were held in the Hoosier Dome for many years before it got torn down and Lucas Oil Stadium built (again, taking significantly into account what BOA/MFA and DCI wanted out of the stadium whilst designing and constructing). Factually, Indy did grow with the activity. I don't mind you stating you want the GN's in a different place. Many people do. The matter of the fact is that many people (including those from Texas) that had been a part of the Indy Super/Grand Nationals experience fully agree that Indy offers and supports so many niche needs of the events. There is a reason why people believe it is very unlikely to move the event away from LOS and Indianapolis. Valid. Just looking for an economically more inclusive way more bands can make the trip. I think there are a lot of bands most people nationally have never seen that would be great to be introduced to everyone on a bigger scale. Appreciate the insight. I agree that it’s not necessarily fair to all the incredible bands out there that aren’t able to make the trip to indy however, I think people are also forgetting that Music for All headquarters are located downtown indianapolis. They relocated from Chicago to Indy a while back so they would be right by LOS. Logically it wouldn’t make much sense for MFA to change the location of grand nats when you look at it from this perspective
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Post by philodemus on Nov 13, 2022 20:48:00 GMT -6
A Nashville Super Regional would be incredible… there are a like 4 ‘major’ (in their own minds) band competitions in the Nashville area… and they all kind of suck in their own way. But there are so many great bands in Middle Tennessee, and Kentucky is a short bounce down I-65. Plus, it isn’t that much further to northern Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. It’s actually not as bad a drive as you might imagine from Atlanta. So, yeah, throw in a few Midwest homies and maybe some new friends from Florida… this is starting to look like a party.
Go Titans!
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Post by LeanderMomma on Nov 13, 2022 21:14:20 GMT -6
A Nashville Super Regional would be incredible… there are a like 4 ‘major’ (in their own minds) band competitions in the Nashville area… and they all kind of suck in their own way. But there are so many great bands in Middle Tennessee, and Kentucky is a short bounce down I-65. Plus, it isn’t that much further to northern Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. It’s actually not as bad a drive as you might imagine from Atlanta. So, yeah, throw in a few Midwest homies and maybe some new friends from Florida… this is starting to look like a party. Go Titans! I would love a Nashville SR as well. It would only be about a 7 hour drive, plus my parents live just outside of Memphis on the way to Nashville. Maybe we could get some OK, AR and TX bands to go!
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Post by weller22 on Nov 13, 2022 22:03:58 GMT -6
I have a feeling MFA will pounce on the proposed Nashville dome. It’s within a reasonable distance of…practically every potential GN finalist, excluding the ones deeper in TX. Imagine getting DFW, OK, IN, IL, KY, OH, and TN bands, plus AR bands like Bentonville, bands out of the Carolinas, maybe even a couple of FL bands…it wouldn’t just replace St. Louis, it’d give GN a run for its money. Do we know anything about the support spaces? It would still be ideal for their to be indoor warmups for Nashville at GN time. I almost posted about the new Nashville stadium last night. The area around it just seems like a potential mess for a major BOA competition. "Mess" is my way of describing it while not using a bunch of expletives.
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Post by bigblue2019 on Nov 13, 2022 22:30:03 GMT -6
Grand Nationals can not be moved from year to year. It would be a logistical nightmare. BOA realized this in the 1980s as the size of Grand Nationals doubled over the course of the decade. The Pontiac Silverdome was a nice stadium but that was about it. It was determined in 1989 that Indy was the best choice. There was ample room for other activities and warm up in the convention center. Also lots of hotels and restaurants within walking distance. I know it gives Indiana bands an advantage, but I don't know of any other place that would work as well. Also Indy is a little more centrally located in terms of the population center of the US. As I mentioned to someone, Lucas Oil was built with DCI and BOA and acoustics in mind. I don't think any other stadium has done that. Also, Indy is home to two of the biggest conventions in the country in the FDIC and Gen Con. In order to keep those, Indy will build more hotels downtown, create a more accessible and larger convention center, etc. There is no other area in the country that will do what needs to be done to keep huge conventions. Plus Indy has the FFA as well. Gen Con has threatened to move if more space isn't made available, or created. The majority of the hotels in downtown are very walkable and or connected via a skywalk as well.
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Post by supersound on Nov 13, 2022 23:11:35 GMT -6
Unless a Texan city suddenly decides that a new stadium directly integrated into the city is with is a well-worth investment I think we’ll keep nationals in Indy.
Or we can just move it to Bakersfield and have a Chino Hills 2023 championship.
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Post by vidal28rdg on Nov 13, 2022 23:23:54 GMT -6
Unless a Texan city suddenly decides that a new stadium directly integrated into the city is with is a well-worth investment I think we’ll keep nationals in Indy. Or we can just move it to Bakersfield and have a Chino Hills 2023 championship. Texas is super famous for having compact and efficient city planning, most definitely, certainly, 100% not just total BS that I’m saying😂😂 I wish I could say this were true😢
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greedygreen
Newbie
4 days of grand nats = 11 hours of sleep
Posts: 1
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Post by greedygreen on Nov 14, 2022 10:52:00 GMT -6
Honestly I'd be down to move Nats to SA at this point if it brought greater consistency between prelims - semis - finals. The competitiveness this year was crazy, but 15 place difference between prelims to finals is just silly and it signals a lack of cohesion and certainty from judges I saw this earlier, but wanted to gather my thoughts before creating an account and posting a response. As an anonymous band tech at an unnamed school, I was present for rehearsals before prelims and semis(we didn't have time to rehearse before finals other than warmup). As an out-of-state school, we never get to march on an NFL stadium, so a significant portion of our first rehearsal was kind of whack. Slightly unfocused, it took the kids almost the entire rehearsal before they were able to successfully adjust their sets (specifically, how they reference them and what to look for). Each performance netted the kids a higher placement, and each rehearsal was not only easier, but MORE focused as the kids realized that they could knock it out of the park. This built up and allowed the kids to peak during their finals performance. As cool as that story is, and as real as it was for me, I'd expect the same from almost every top level group. As much as we'd like to think of the bands like DCI, the reality is that these are kids. Their performances often vary GREATLY from day-to-day, even at the highest level. I don't want to completely ignore the inconsistency with the judges, but my experience leads me to believe just about anything is possible with scores. If the judges put a number down, I truly believe that the kids deserved it. None of this is without fault, but even with my own band, I would have given vastly different scores with our 3 different performances. These large-scale competitions are monstrous to judge. With regional competitions, you typically have 2-6 "locks" with the rest of finals made of groups that worked really hard that year (or that week/month or whatever). But as soon as you start getting competitions where those "locks" start to exceed the number of finals places, it really comes down to how THAT band does on THAT day. It's awesome to watch these competitions, but its always hard for those that don't advance, because if the bands had a second shot, I'm 100% confident we'd see different bands in finals.
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Post by Momof20613 on Nov 14, 2022 13:11:25 GMT -6
Oklahoma desperately needs its own regional and it has forever, I'm lost on why it hasn't happened yet! Inertia is a real factor. There is a major local invitational just about every weekend during the bulk of BOA season. The Oklahoma bands support each other's events which are a real source of funding, so how do you decide which one to negatively impact by scheduling a BOA event on the same weekend? Renegade Review is one of the later contests that big schools attend. After that there isn’t that much competition left aside from OBA events. A regional on a weekend where 1a/2a/3A/4A OBA (ie: mid to late October) contest are wouldn’t be awful. There aren’t many of those schools that are looking to compete on a field like BOA.
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Post by Jake W. on Nov 14, 2022 13:49:09 GMT -6
Renegade Review is one of the later contests that big schools attend. After that there isn’t that much competition left aside from OBA events. A regional on a weekend where 1a/2a/3A/4A OBA (ie: mid to late October) contest are wouldn’t be awful. There aren’t many of those schools that are looking to compete on a field like BOA. That's a good point, and BOA already does a great job of working with state organizations to plan events around/work out a schedule with. It's a process the organization is quite familiar with. OK really does need something!! I'm glad STL & DFW contests are in their backyards, but it would be so great to see a contest in the state itself.
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Post by lostchoirguy on Nov 14, 2022 14:47:15 GMT -6
Renegade Review is one of the later contests that big schools attend. After that there isn’t that much competition left aside from OBA events. A regional on a weekend where 1a/2a/3A/4A OBA (ie: mid to late October) contest are wouldn’t be awful. There aren’t many of those schools that are looking to compete on a field like BOA. That's a good point, and BOA already does a great job of working with state organizations to plan events around/work out a schedule with. It's a process the organization is quite familiar with. OK really does need something!! I'm glad STL & DFW contests are in their backyards, but it would be so great to see a contest in the state itself. I also think a Kansas City event could attract more OK participation.
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