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Post by lealumni03 on Sept 20, 2023 14:10:09 GMT -6
Found a video of Lakota East online and the whole video is 6:11 from intro to clearing the field. It appears their whole show is done in under 6 minutes. I didn't see a penalty on the sheet - so curious to know if the Visual judge took it upon themselves or somehow the penalty was applied to that score.
In comparison Castle's video is has them playing from intro for over 8 mins. Wonder if East didn't put the whole show on the field? Seems odd to do for a regional event, but maybe saving something for St. Louis?
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Post by yayband914 on Sept 20, 2023 14:12:28 GMT -6
Found a video of Lakota East online and the whole video is 6:11 from intro to clearing the field. It appears their whole show is done in under 6 minutes. I didn't see a penalty on the sheet - so curious to know if the Visual judge took it upon themselves or somehow the penalty was applied to that score. In comparison Castle's video is has them playing from intro for over 8 mins. Wonder if East didn't put the whole show on the field? Seems odd to do for a regional event, but maybe saving something for St. Louis? BOA is not assessing timing penalties until October 7th. I would imagine Lakota East has more show to produce and perform.
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Sept 20, 2023 14:37:15 GMT -6
Found a video of Lakota East online and the whole video is 6:11 from intro to clearing the field. It appears their whole show is done in under 6 minutes. I didn't see a penalty on the sheet - so curious to know if the Visual judge took it upon themselves or somehow the penalty was applied to that score. In comparison Castle's video is has them playing from intro for over 8 mins. Wonder if East didn't put the whole show on the field? Seems odd to do for a regional event, but maybe saving something for St. Louis? I'm not a fan of bands presenting notably incomplete shows even at early competitions, but it's not that much of an oddity.
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Post by statechamp1239 on Sept 20, 2023 14:53:27 GMT -6
Found a video of Lakota East online and the whole video is 6:11 from intro to clearing the field. It appears their whole show is done in under 6 minutes. I didn't see a penalty on the sheet - so curious to know if the Visual judge took it upon themselves or somehow the penalty was applied to that score. In comparison Castle's video is has them playing from intro for over 8 mins. Wonder if East didn't put the whole show on the field? Seems odd to do for a regional event, but maybe saving something for St. Louis? I'm not a fan of bands presenting notably incomplete shows even at early competitions, but it's not that much of an oddity. One word: Texas
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Sept 20, 2023 15:09:43 GMT -6
Found a video of Lakota East online and the whole video is 6:11 from intro to clearing the field. It appears their whole show is done in under 6 minutes. I didn't see a penalty on the sheet - so curious to know if the Visual judge took it upon themselves or somehow the penalty was applied to that score. In comparison Castle's video is has them playing from intro for over 8 mins. Wonder if East didn't put the whole show on the field? Seems odd to do for a regional event, but maybe saving something for St. Louis? I believe Castle was the ONLY group at Louisville finals to present a full show. Everyone else was missing a closer. As for the Visual Ensemble subcaption, I’m also surprised at the results, particularly Lakota East being ranked so low and Decatur Central ranked so high. It’s like he was judging Visual Effect instead of Visual Ensemble… but even then I think those results are still way off. Early season shows are hard to read, though, so I would take all these scores with a grain of salt. Judges’ interpretations will be more accurate once they’re actually judging complete shows.
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Post by macwinlin on Sept 21, 2023 10:06:05 GMT -6
Found a video of Lakota East online and the whole video is 6:11 from intro to clearing the field. It appears their whole show is done in under 6 minutes. I didn't see a penalty on the sheet - so curious to know if the Visual judge took it upon themselves or somehow the penalty was applied to that score. In comparison Castle's video is has them playing from intro for over 8 mins. Wonder if East didn't put the whole show on the field? Seems odd to do for a regional event, but maybe saving something for St. Louis? I believe Castle was the ONLY group at Louisville finals to present a full show. Everyone else was missing a closer. As for the Visual Ensemble subcaption, I’m also surprised at the results, particularly Lakota East being ranked so low and Decatur Central ranked so high. It’s like he was judging Visual Effect instead of Visual Ensemble… but even then I think those results are still way off. Early season shows are hard to read, though, so I would take all these scores with a grain of salt. Judges’ interpretations will be more accurate once they’re actually judging complete shows. True, and I'm honestly surprised at the above comments. After reading them, you'd think it's the norm for *most* groups to field full shows during week 1 and 2, but that's simply not the case.
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Post by Allohak on Sept 21, 2023 10:59:30 GMT -6
Found a video of Lakota East online and the whole video is 6:11 from intro to clearing the field. It appears their whole show is done in under 6 minutes. I didn't see a penalty on the sheet - so curious to know if the Visual judge took it upon themselves or somehow the penalty was applied to that score. In comparison Castle's video is has them playing from intro for over 8 mins. Wonder if East didn't put the whole show on the field? Seems odd to do for a regional event, but maybe saving something for St. Louis? No penalties are assessed for shows under the minimum time length in early regionals. Any penalties assessed are heavily considered and discussed before being applied.
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Sept 21, 2023 12:05:05 GMT -6
I believe Castle was the ONLY group at Louisville finals to present a full show. Everyone else was missing a closer. As for the Visual Ensemble subcaption, I’m also surprised at the results, particularly Lakota East being ranked so low and Decatur Central ranked so high. It’s like he was judging Visual Effect instead of Visual Ensemble… but even then I think those results are still way off. Early season shows are hard to read, though, so I would take all these scores with a grain of salt. Judges’ interpretations will be more accurate once they’re actually judging complete shows. True, and I'm honestly surprised at the above comments. After reading them, you'd think it's the norm for *most* groups to field full shows during week 1 and 2, but that's simply not the case. There was once a time where fielding full shows early season was the norm. Now, with such an emphasis on program coordination, the learning process is more complex—and thereby slower to teach—than ever before. You can't simply write "drill" to music. And drill isn't just "taught"; "events" are "produced." There also needs to be dedicated time early season for teaching students a greater range of skillsets (i.e.: dance fundamentals). (To be clear, many top-tier groups like Carmel have been doing this for years. But this now seem to be the norm for the majority of groups.) Given how much time it now takes for shows to be put onto the field, I wish designers and directors would prioritize entertainment value. Many groups seem to be designing shows meant to "impress" judges and check off boxes... but what a dreary result this is for the audience, especially when shows are incomplete early season! If it can't be complete, can it at least entertain? I'll stop here before completely I derail the thread...
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Post by yayband914 on Sept 21, 2023 12:08:57 GMT -6
An incomplete show with complete thoughts will always score better in the early season than a complete show with incomplete thoughts.
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Sept 21, 2023 12:23:29 GMT -6
An incomplete show with complete thoughts will always score better in the early season than a complete show with incomplete thoughts. To the degree that this is correct, I think it's foolish. Shows should be rewarded for what they achieve not for what they promise. But I think in practice everything's a bit more gray than that.
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Post by yayband914 on Sept 21, 2023 12:32:47 GMT -6
An incomplete show with complete thoughts will always score better in the early season than a complete show with incomplete thoughts. To the degree that this is correct, I think it's foolish. Shows should be rewarded for what they achieve not for what they promise. But I think in practice everything's a bit more gray than that. You’re only further proving my point. Incomplete shows presented with complete thoughts achieve more (and promise less, as you can infer that a closer will be fully produced once fielded) than complete shows with incomplete and unproduced thoughts, and thusly are rewarded as such.
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Post by yayband914 on Sept 21, 2023 12:34:15 GMT -6
True, and I'm honestly surprised at the above comments. After reading them, you'd think it's the norm for *most* groups to field full shows during week 1 and 2, but that's simply not the case. I'll stop here before completely I derail the thread... Meh, derail it. The contest is over. 😂
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Sept 21, 2023 12:39:25 GMT -6
To the degree that this is correct, I think it's foolish. Shows should be rewarded for what they achieve not for what they promise. But I think in practice everything's a bit more gray than that. You’re only further proving my point. Incomplete shows presented with complete thoughts achieve more (and promise less, as you can infer that a closer will be fully produced once fielded) than complete shows with incomplete and unproduced thoughts, and thusly are rewarded as such. I'm not sure we're talking past each other because we haven't defined terms like "complete" or "thought."
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Post by hewhowaits on Sept 21, 2023 12:52:25 GMT -6
An incomplete show with complete thoughts will always score better in the early season than a complete show with incomplete thoughts. To the degree that this is correct, I think it's foolish. Shows should be rewarded for what they achieve not for what they promise. But I think in practice everything's a bit more gray than that. My take on yayband914 's position is "less show accomplished > more show not accomplished." I read your preference as "more show > less show, even if the more isn't accomplished as well as the less." Both approaches make sense in their own way.
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Post by indianabandkid12 on Sept 21, 2023 18:50:47 GMT -6
To the degree that this is correct, I think it's foolish. Shows should be rewarded for what they achieve not for what they promise. But I think in practice everything's a bit more gray than that. My take on yayband914 's position is "less show accomplished > more show not accomplished." I read your preference as "more show > less show, even if the more isn't accomplished as well as the less." Both approaches make sense in their own way. Both ways of thinking can make sense, becuase many other top level groups tend to go either way. For example, Castle and other texas bands tend to get a lot of their show on the field early on, and clean like crazy later, while others, like Carmel this year, put less out there and are really clean now as they put on drill. Both work becuase you end up in a similar place by the end of the season either way.
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