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Post by yayband914 on Apr 22, 2023 15:04:05 GMT -6
Wish there were more true World caliber shows to compete with that! They’d need to add at least 40 more members first.
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Post by cybrunette on Apr 22, 2023 15:31:27 GMT -6
Finals Schedule University of Dayton Arena Sunday April 23, 2023
Scholastic A
9:30 AM - Carlisle HS - Carlisle, OH 9:39 AM - Elk River Combined Schools - Elk River, MN 9:48 AM - Kent City HS - Kent City, MI 9:57 AM - Brandon HS - Brandon, MS 10:06 AM - Bob Jones HS - Madison, AL 10:15 AM - Papillion-La Vista South HS - Papillion, NE 10:24 AM - Father Ryan HS - Nashville, TN 10:33 AM - Valley Christian HS - San Jose, CA 10:42 AM - Bellevue West HS - Bellevue, NE
10:51 AM - Break
Independent A
11:14 AM - Empyrean Winds - Cumberland, VA 11:23 AM - Westerville Winds - Westerville, OH 11:32 AM - Ethereal Winds - El Paso, TX 11:41 AM - Eva Independent Winds - Raleigh, NC 11:50 AM - Vortex Indoor Winds - Syracuse, NY
11:59 AM - Break
Scholastic Open
12:10 PM - Mt. Juliet HS - Mt. Juliet, TN 12:20 PM - Robert Vela HS - Edinburg, TX 12:30 PM - Daviess County HS - Owensboro, KY 12:40 PM - Dartmouth HS - Dartmouth, MA 12:50 PM - Miamisburg HS - Miamisburg, OH 1:00 PM - Westfield HS - Westfield, IN
1:10 PM - Break
Independent Open
1:20 PM - Quixotic - Pomona, CA 1:30 PM - Evidence Winds from William Carey University - Hattiesburg, MS 1:40 PM - MBI Winds - St. Paul, MN 1:50 PM - Valhalla Winds - Miamisburg, OH 2:00 PM - Chromium Winds - Rosemont, IL 2:10 PM - LSM Winds - Downriver, MI
2:20 PM - Break
Scholastic World
2:30 PM - Lake Hamilton HS - Hot Springs, AR 2:41 PM - Greenfield Central HS - Greenfield, IN 2:52 PM - Cleveland HS - Clayton, NC 3:03 PM - Avon HS - Avon, IN
3:14 PM - Break
Independent World
3:20 PM - Legacy - Miami, FL 3:31 PM - Elevate Winds - Indianapolis, IN 3:42 PM - Horizon Winds - Sarasota, FL 3:53 PM - STRYKE Wynds - Palm Beach, FL 4:04 PM - UTRGV Winds - Edinburg, TX
4:30 PM - WINDS FINALE
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Post by crowncrawler on Apr 22, 2023 18:04:36 GMT -6
Not sure if anyone else saw, but event staff just gave Avon the championship trophy and told them they didn't need to show up tomorrow. Phenomenal show, loved the ballad in particular
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Post by paddy on Apr 23, 2023 5:46:43 GMT -6
Those last three groups in WSO definitely felt to me like they were on a different level from the rest of the class. I'm sure most of us know it. If the Winds division of WGI was as fleshed out & had the number of groups as Percussion / Guard does, some of these Open & World groups (even out of the ones that didn't make the trip to championships) would be dropped down a class I’m here on the floor. Is there any group (or groups) in particular that you want me to share your disdain with, or would just like me to pass along a blanket statement? Maybe an announcement during breaks?
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Post by LeanderMomma on Apr 23, 2023 5:56:44 GMT -6
I'm sure most of us know it. If the Winds division of WGI was as fleshed out & had the number of groups as Percussion / Guard does, some of these Open & World groups (even out of the ones that didn't make the trip to championships) would be dropped down a class I’m here on the floor. Is there any group (or groups) in particular that you want me to share your disdain with, or would just like me to pass along a blanket statement? Maybe an announcement during breaks? could you let them know how much I enjoyed my first ever WGI Worlds event last weekend and the city of Dayton itself? I had the best time!! 😉😁
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Post by philodemus on Apr 23, 2023 8:17:29 GMT -6
Bob Jones... good stuff!
If I had my druthers, that's the direction Winds would be heading in.
EDITED TO ADD: Yeah, having watched the rest of the class, I'm surprised they aren't up at the top with Bellevue West... maybe even ahead of them? Must have been a huge penalty yesterday, I guess?
Not that the groups above weren't good, but just all things considered... playing, design, performance qualities... I think they were the best group I saw in the class.
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Post by Subito Fortissimo on Apr 23, 2023 10:20:53 GMT -6
I'm not watching finals today but I hope everyone is managing to avoid tech issues and having their best performance of the year!
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Post by Subito Fortissimo on Apr 23, 2023 10:22:15 GMT -6
I'm sure most of us know it. If the Winds division of WGI was as fleshed out & had the number of groups as Percussion / Guard does, some of these Open & World groups (even out of the ones that didn't make the trip to championships) would be dropped down a class I’m here on the floor. Is there any group (or groups) in particular that you want me to share your disdain with, or would just like me to pass along a blanket statement? Maybe an announcement during breaks? No gripes from me but since you're there I would be very interested to know what the deal was with Pamlico Winds and whether or not the group even existed.
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Post by philodemus on Apr 23, 2023 10:30:19 GMT -6
Robert Vela! Excellent.
And the homies from Daviess County repping the Commonwealth strong.
Dartmouth, excellent... maybe some tuning things?
Miamisburg, cool concept that maybe didn't quite come together? It's hard to follow up the wheelies.
And Westfield... yep! That's what Winds can be. Great playing overall with some superstar soloists, moving really well, sharp design.
This Finals is starting to make me a believer.
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Post by cybrunette on Apr 23, 2023 11:39:24 GMT -6
I'm sure most of us know it. If the Winds division of WGI was as fleshed out & had the number of groups as Percussion / Guard does, some of these Open & World groups (even out of the ones that didn't make the trip to championships) would be dropped down a class I’m here on the floor. Is there any group (or groups) in particular that you want me to share your disdain with, or would just like me to pass along a blanket statement? Maybe an announcement during breaks? Well I'm not sure if even a blanket statement would be useful in the state that indoor winds is right now lol, you'd have to have the ideal attendance to really respond to anything like this. It's just clear that they're filling in space with the few groups they have competing in the circuit. A lot of the bottom halves of each class have standout leads or soloists that can absolutely perform at the level of the class they're in or even higher, but that overshadows the difficulty of their musical selections based on the capabilities of groups as a whole. Sure they have some very impactful moments and they definitely sound incredible when there are sustained notes, but the moment you throw open or world class technicality in both marching & playing into the mix those bottom half groups lose that. Obviously it makes sense why things are the way they are right now until this event eventually grows and I understand that a lot of these groups use this as marching experience, but most likely for the next few years you're going to have situations where you get an Avon is only competing against Avon.
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Post by paddy on Apr 23, 2023 11:57:39 GMT -6
I’m here on the floor. Is there any group (or groups) in particular that you want me to share your disdain with, or would just like me to pass along a blanket statement? Maybe an announcement during breaks? Well I'm not sure if even a blanket statement would be useful in the state that indoor winds is right now lol, you'd have to have the ideal attendance to really respond to anything like this. It's just clear that they're filling in space with the few groups they have competing in the circuit. A lot of the bottom halves of each class have standout leads or soloists that can absolutely perform at the level of the class they're in or even higher, but that overshadows the difficulty of their musical selections based on the capabilities of groups as a whole. Sure they have some very impactful moments and they definitely sound incredible when there are sustained notes, but the moment you throw open or world class technicality in both marching & playing into the mix those bottom half groups lose that. Obviously it makes sense why things are the way they are right now until this event eventually grows and I understand that a lot of these groups use this as marching experience, but most likely for the next few years you're going to have situations where you get an Avon is only competing against Avon. Gotta admire someone who is given a chance and then doubles down. I’ve never been shy about being realistic and critical, but I don’t criticize student performers. FYI - Avon was 4th in 2019.
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Post by philodemus on Apr 23, 2023 12:04:40 GMT -6
What's funny is, I've also been a doubter [publicly on this forum] but Finals today is really helping bring me around. I don't know, maybe some of the top few groups in A are really Open level, maybe the bottom of Open is really A... and it's really interesting how the Scholastic side seems ahead of Independent, overall... but the important thing is, there are multiple groups making great sounds and performing cool designs.
Side note: I wish Chromium Winds wouldn't march like that. I get why they do... but... come on, guys.
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Post by cybrunette on Apr 23, 2023 12:10:22 GMT -6
Well I'm not sure if even a blanket statement would be useful in the state that indoor winds is right now lol, you'd have to have the ideal attendance to really respond to anything like this. It's just clear that they're filling in space with the few groups they have competing in the circuit. A lot of the bottom halves of each class have standout leads or soloists that can absolutely perform at the level of the class they're in or even higher, but that overshadows the difficulty of their musical selections based on the capabilities of groups as a whole. Sure they have some very impactful moments and they definitely sound incredible when there are sustained notes, but the moment you throw open or world class technicality in both marching & playing into the mix those bottom half groups lose that. Obviously it makes sense why things are the way they are right now until this event eventually grows and I understand that a lot of these groups use this as marching experience, but most likely for the next few years you're going to have situations where you get an Avon is only competing against Avon. Gotta admire someone who is given a chance and then doubles down. FYI - Avon was 4th in 2019. I'm catching up through A right now. I'd have to get back to you with a detailed response on who and when, that was just what I currently remembered from what I caught out of yesterdays performances.
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Post by marimba11 on Apr 23, 2023 12:37:22 GMT -6
Avon seems super cluttered out there on the performance area. I liked last year's show from them a bit more.
Interesting Catawba Ridge did not field a winds group this year I just noticed that.
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Apr 23, 2023 13:11:02 GMT -6
I wouldn't be surprised if, twenty years from now, a show like Cleveland's would be on the verge of making WSO semis. I think there is so much potential for this activity to live into.
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Apr 23, 2023 13:19:18 GMT -6
Ok, Avon has me bought in. They have to be like 10 points ahead of anyone else, right? I think I'll watch the rest of finals.
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Apr 23, 2023 13:48:20 GMT -6
I'm curious what Legacy's mission is. Everything about that show (especially musically) felt beyond the performers' abilities. That's not a dig at the performers at all. You could tell they were going for it! Plus, there's nothing easy about performing your layer of the orchestration as a soloist the entire show... while marching and dancing.
But how do the adults in the room set up their students for success? Moving down to Open or A Class would not only justify an easier show design; it would also justify a shorter show, allowing way more rehearsal time for the kind of fundamentals needed to grow your students into one day being World Class.
Do they fear that kids wouldn't want to join unless they could they were marching a World Class group? Maybe, but how long can you forgo excellence and expect to attract more talent to auditions next year?
Sorry if this sounds too mean, but I get really upset when I see adult egos compromising student success. (Another example: Northwest Independent winter guard this year. But that's a separate thread....)
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Post by philodemus on Apr 23, 2023 14:08:00 GMT -6
I had the same thought about Legacy. Kids striving hard to reach something that just isn't quite in their reach.
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Post by crowncrawler on Apr 23, 2023 14:09:55 GMT -6
Avon seems super cluttered out there on the performance area. I liked last year's show from them a bit more. Interesting Catawba Ridge did not field a winds group this year I just noticed that. I've heard that Catawba Ridge's winds will be back next season
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Apr 23, 2023 14:33:30 GMT -6
I appreciated UTRGV prioritizing balance and blend over everything else. That itself was perhaps the most world-class element of WIW finals! I could hear woodwinds almost the entire time, there were the lovely (if not almost unfamiliar!) timbres of French horn and concert euphonium, and the difficulty overall didn't egregiously exceed the students' abilities. (Until your students can play simple music with a gorgeous tone, don't worry about adding Carolina Crown runs.)
Looking at the prelims scores, I can't see the placements or scores changing much. Maybe a bit more room between Elevate and Legacy; maybe a full point spread between UTRGV and Stryke? UTRGV was just so much more excellent than Stryke imo, despite Stryke perhaps displaying a wider range of skills.
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Post by srv1084 on Apr 23, 2023 14:40:06 GMT -6
Sorry if this sounds too mean, but I get really upset when I see adult egos compromising student success. (Another example: Northwest Independent winter guard this year. But that's a separate thread....) Yes, yes, yes. Everything this. I've long thought that for all the hoops WGI goes through for review to promote ensembles, they should have discussions with ensemble directors who are misclassified the other way. At the end of the day, if they choose to ignore the evaluation and perform in the higher class that's really on them, but the same type of feedback should be provided if it's happening in the other direction. Some directors (not saying specifically Legacy) have refused over the years to have their units perform down to their appropriate class level out of pure ego. I've witnessed it personally. We even saw it in the first year of WGI Winds with a WSW participant when it was much more obvious, but hey, with only two units competing it was a sure-fire medal. On that note, I think this is part of what brings me a lot of confusion when it comes to the judging criteria and classification system in WGI winds. I admire Legacy for going out there with all of 13 members and doing their thing, but I'm a bit confused how they managed to pop an 80 in world class and finish so close to their competitors. Box 4 score in world class. Side note: At first I thought it was due to Independent World having no age restriction similar to winter guard, where A class and Open class have age cutoffs, but not World class. As it turns out, this is in the Winds rule book: Winds groups in the Independent Class may compete with performers of any age. Doesn't mention which classes, just independent in general.
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Post by cybrunette on Apr 23, 2023 14:47:12 GMT -6
Alright now that I've caught up to scholastic here's my hot take. I'm going to stick with scholastic since that's what I mainly watched yesterday & have a 2nd watch through of today.
Starting this off with the top of A & the bottom of Open. Let's say you bump the top 2 groups of A (Bellevue West & Valley Christian) or drop the bottom of Open (Mt Juliet, Corinth Holders, & John Hardin), I can see why these 5 groups would be in a very similar tight spot. Is Mt Juliet trying to push the envelope? Of course.. But how does that fair with a group such as Daviess County? I believe Daviess has their execution down of what an Open class entails wonderfully. Their marching & articulation is exactly what you'd expect. While Juliet is marching wonderfully and sound great in their hits & sustained notes, I feel they do struggle to an extent in the risks they're taking which is what's holding them back.
Moving on to the top of Open and the bottom of world. While Lake Hamilton has a larger presence due to their size, I don't see why Miamisburg or Westfield wouldn't be able to successfully handle their musical selection. You can immediately tell there's a jump from Hamilton to Greenfield. Greenfield soundly controlling the risks they're taking. The only reason I see LH trailing behind GC in prelims is again due to their size & confidence in playing the difficulty of their musical selection very well.
Also, there should definitely be a cap to how many marchers are on the field
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Post by cybrunette on Apr 23, 2023 15:33:04 GMT -6
Final Scores
Scholastic A
1. Bob Jones HS - Madison, AL 93.850 2. Valley Christian HS - San Jose, CA 91.650 3. Bellevue West HS - Bellevue, NE 90.700 4. Papillion-La Vista South HS - Papillion, NE 86.600 5. Father Ryan HS - Nashville, TN 85.150 6. Kent City HS - Kent City, MI 83.650 7. Brandon HS - Brandon, MS 82.425 8. Elk River Combined Schools - Elk River, MN 81.925 9. Carlisle HS - Carlisle, OH 79.075
Independent A
1. Eva Independent Winds - Raleigh, NC 85.225 2. Vortex Indoor Winds - Syracuse, NY 84.975 3. Ethereal Winds - El Paso, TX 82.225 4. Westerville Winds - Westerville, OH 80.125 5. Empyrean Winds - Cumberland, VA 75.875
Scholastic Open
1. Westfield HS - Westfield, IN 94.325 2. Miamisburg HS - Miamisburg, OH 93.050 3. Dartmouth HS - Dartmouth, MA 91.850 4. Daviess County HS - Owensboro, KY 90.888 5. Robert Vela HS - Edinburg, TX 88.650 6. Mt. Juliet HS - Mt. Juliet, TN 85.825
Independent Open
1. LSM Winds - Downriver, MI 88.200 2. Valhalla Winds - Miamisburg, OH 85.625 3. Chromium Winds - Rosemont, IL 85.400 4. MBI Winds - St. Paul, MN 81.925 5. Evidence Winds from William Carey University - Hattiesburg, MS 81.725 6. Quixotic - Pomona, CA 77.200
Scholastic World
1. Avon HS - Avon, IN 98.350 2. Cleveland HS - Clayton, NC 92.475 3. Greenfield Central HS - Greenfield, IN 91.825 4. Lake Hamilton HS - Hot Springs , AR 89.875
Independent World
1. STRYKE Wynds - Palm Beach, FL 95.250 2. UTRGV Winds - Edinburg, TX 93.650 3. Horizon Winds - Sarasota, FL 89.675 4. Elevate Winds - Indianapolis, IN 84.775 5. Legacy - Miami, FL 81.525
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Post by crowncrawler on Apr 23, 2023 15:36:53 GMT -6
Congrats to all these groups and to the gold medalists! Particularly happy to see Bob Jones take their well deserved W
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Post by Subito Fortissimo on Apr 23, 2023 16:00:34 GMT -6
Really a shame for Bellevue East getting a 16.55 point penalty that knocked them out of finals. But when you use up your entire time slot just trying to get your electronics to work, that's what happens.
I believe the rules allow for groups to use a conductor located outside the performance area, so I wonder if some groups who use only a track will consider practicing run throughs with a staff member conducting and no track as a contingency.
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Post by das88 on Apr 23, 2023 16:06:01 GMT -6
Ok, Avon has me bought in. They have to be like 10 points ahead of anyone else, right? I think I'll watch the rest of finals. Pretty close to 10
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Post by es203 on Apr 23, 2023 18:10:32 GMT -6
I love Avon but it’s not much of a competition when just your high brass alone is more than 30 people. There needs to be a member limit
Not implying that anything would change if Avon was smaller, it’s still Avon
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Post by abtwitch on Apr 23, 2023 18:24:25 GMT -6
I haven't watched finals yet so I'll be watching the FloMarching replay (I worked today, have tomorrow off), but my takeaway so far is that Indoor Winds will never be taken seriously until people try to make something unique out of it. I think there's potential way deep down, but as it stands the best Indoor Winds show ever predates Indoor Winds by more than two decades (Jackson Academy 1993).
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Post by ilikeguard on Apr 23, 2023 19:04:00 GMT -6
Sorry if this sounds too mean, but I get really upset when I see adult egos compromising student success. (Another example: Northwest Independent winter guard this year. But that's a separate thread....) Make the thread I have plenty to say
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Post by LeanderMomma on Apr 23, 2023 21:28:26 GMT -6
Sorry if this sounds too mean, but I get really upset when I see adult egos compromising student success. (Another example: Northwest Independent winter guard this year. But that's a separate thread....) Make the thread I have plenty to say I think there are several of us who would like to say a few things about the IW class in particular in color guard. I was turned off by several things I saw. And I think cinnamonpromenade is on the same track that I am.
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