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Post by jeremiah on Sept 22, 2019 11:04:22 GMT -6
As this thread has descended into discussion of if groups lie about enrollment numbers, I'll drop in the actual text from BOA policy:
So those Ohio Dept. of Ed numbers being looked up would be the "enrollment numbers used in determining funding" for schools in Ohio. However, most of the time, those headcount numbers for school funding don't take place until later in the fall, usually October or November, so for a majority of schools this data is either based on estimates for the upcoming school year, or old numbers from the previous year.
Since most of those official headcounts don't take place until the fall, and aren't certified until weeks later, sending updated numbers two weeks in advance of the next show is impossible, or at best would only affect a grand nationals appearance.
So the default is to base it on state-run band contests or athletic classifications, which of course operate on their own cycles of reclassification.
What does it mean?
So, I think it's unfair to say that group are lying about enrollment numbers or manipulating data. Ultimately it's MFA's job to create and enforce the rules, and there have been times where they've retroactively changed results from events based on incorrect classification data, so clearly they do care about the cut offs.
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Post by Allohak on Sept 22, 2019 14:56:03 GMT -6
My brother went to a regional vocational school. He remained part of the Mason band. He graduated from both institutions. Regardless of your brother, BOA allows for this and in many schools Band is a credited class and the vocational students cannot take it therefore that situation arises. Also the numbers you are getting from Ohio especially are not accurate. The ADM is not the enrollment used. The biggest issue is calling out schools on a forum for being dishonest with a few clicks of a mouse and basic internet research. That is unfair to any of the schools you are citing on this post. I am sure there are bands gaming the system but you are calling out schools that are not and that is unfair to malign their names from behind your keyboard. No reason to be saying I'm claiming something to be the case when it isn't. I'm not making arguments in this thread about who should and shouldn't be counted. Just showing that it isn't quite as easy as "how many butts in desk seats in class". I'm making no claims about any schools - good, bad, or otherwise - certainly not "maligning their names from behind my keyboard".
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Post by LeanderMomma on Sept 22, 2019 18:20:54 GMT -6
@jeremiah sure has a lot of stars beside his name.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Sept 22, 2019 18:23:09 GMT -6
Regardless of your brother, BOA allows for this and in many schools Band is a credited class and the vocational students cannot take it therefore that situation arises. Also the numbers you are getting from Ohio especially are not accurate. The ADM is not the enrollment used. The biggest issue is calling out schools on a forum for being dishonest with a few clicks of a mouse and basic internet research. That is unfair to any of the schools you are citing on this post. I am sure there are bands gaming the system but you are calling out schools that are not and that is unfair to malign their names from behind your keyboard. No reason to be saying I'm claiming something to be the case when it isn't. I'm not making arguments in this thread about who should and shouldn't be counted. Just showing that it isn't quite as easy as "how many butts in desk seats in class". I'm making no claims about any schools - good, bad, or otherwise - certainly not "maligning their names from behind my keyboard". He somehow combined your post and paddy’s post into a flame against just you.
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Post by thewho on Sept 22, 2019 18:27:24 GMT -6
While we're on this, there's been some unsavory talk in Indiana about a certain Class C band that some think that band should really be BOA Class AA instead of Class A. There's some small conspiracy going on that the band fudges its numbers to stay under the Class A limit.
If you are the few that propagate that theory- just stop. USNews is not a reliable source. If you are that desperate for a trophy from BOA, then work to get it. Lots of bands get the short end of the stick every year. That particular band has gotten that short end in the past, too. Don't think your band should be exempt.
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Post by paddy on Sept 22, 2019 18:59:36 GMT -6
While we're on this, there's been some unsavory talk in Indiana about a certain Class C band that some think that band should really be BOA Class AA instead of Class A. There's some small conspiracy going on that the band fudges its numbers to stay under the Class A limit. If you are the few that propagate that theory- just stop. USNews is not a reliable source. If you are that desperate for a trophy from BOA, then work to get it. Lots of bands get the short end of the stick every year. That particular band has gotten that short end in the past, too. Don't think your band should be exempt. Of course US News isn’t a good source. For Indiana that source is compass.doe.in.gov/dashboard/overview.aspx and www.issma.net/downloads/classes19.pdf. I’m not going to propagate anything. Follow the links and check the band. I don’t care if you share who it is, but the info is there.
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Post by paddy on Sept 22, 2019 19:02:25 GMT -6
No reason to be saying I'm claiming something to be the case when it isn't. I'm not making arguments in this thread about who should and shouldn't be counted. Just showing that it isn't quite as easy as "how many butts in desk seats in class". I'm making no claims about any schools - good, bad, or otherwise - certainly not "maligning their names from behind my keyboard". He somehow combined your post and paddy’s post into a flame against just you. I’m just good that way. I will admit that I’m a data driven person. I seek out the best data I can find, and then ask questions when data points contradict each other.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Sept 22, 2019 19:47:01 GMT -6
He somehow combined your post and paddy’s post into a flame against just you. I’m just good that way. I will admit that I’m a data driven person. I seek out the best data I can find, and then ask questions when data points contradict each other. You stirred up a nest evidently.
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Post by paddy on Sept 22, 2019 20:03:52 GMT -6
I’m just good that way. I will admit that I’m a data driven person. I seek out the best data I can find, and then ask questions when data points contradict each other. You stirred up a nest evidently. Not my intention, but clearly I have. Of course it does seem funny that people either don’t care (someone in this thread basically said smaller class titles are worthless) or people are upset if one of the historically good bands is questioned.
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Post by thewho on Sept 22, 2019 20:19:27 GMT -6
While we're on this, there's been some unsavory talk in Indiana about a certain Class C band that some think that band should really be BOA Class AA instead of Class A. There's some small conspiracy going on that the band fudges its numbers to stay under the Class A limit. If you are the few that propagate that theory- just stop. USNews is not a reliable source. If you are that desperate for a trophy from BOA, then work to get it. Lots of bands get the short end of the stick every year. That particular band has gotten that short end in the past, too. Don't think your band should be exempt. Of course US News isn’t a good source. For Indiana that source is compass.doe.in.gov/dashboard/overview.aspx and www.issma.net/downloads/classes19.pdf. I’m not going to propagate anything. Follow the links and check the band. I don’t care if you share who it is, but the info is there. This was directed at people outside this site (who might read this), not you.
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Post by paddy on Sept 22, 2019 20:34:01 GMT -6
This was directed at people outside this site (who might read this), not you. That’s fine, I’m simply pointing out that there are better resources (especially for Indiana) to do the research. Feel free to check it out yourself.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Sept 22, 2019 21:10:45 GMT -6
Personally I get all my facts from National Enquirer.
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Sept 22, 2019 21:45:13 GMT -6
Personally I get all my facts from National Enquirer. That was a great bit in Men in Black.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Sept 22, 2019 22:04:47 GMT -6
Personally I get all my facts from National Enquirer. That was a great bit in Men in Black. I haven’t seen the new one yet.
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Post by Allohak on Sept 23, 2019 8:17:05 GMT -6
That was a great bit in Men in Black. I haven’t seen the new one yet. In the original!
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Post by hewhowaits on Sept 23, 2019 11:14:18 GMT -6
@jeremiah sure has a lot of stars beside his name. It's good to be king!
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Post by LeanderMomma on Sept 23, 2019 11:20:16 GMT -6
@jeremiah sure has a lot of stars beside his name. It's good to be king! Yes and evidently he can’t even be tagged in a comment! 🤔
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