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Post by philodemus on Nov 10, 2023 21:14:03 GMT -6
So when they made this format change one of the possible scenarios we discussed was the ‘Murray 2021 Scenario’, i.e., what if the best band in Class A gets in on score and has to go on much earlier than the Class A reps who go on last, potentially putting them at a disadvantage.
Well… here we are, right? Like, that didn’t take long.
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Post by principalagent on Nov 10, 2023 21:15:03 GMT -6
So when they made this format change one of the possible scenarios we discussed was the ‘Murray 2021 Scenario’, i.e., what if the best band in Class A gets in on score and has to go on much earlier than the Class A reps who go on last, potentially putting them at a disadvantage. Well… here we are, right? Like, that didn’t take long. THIS FORMAT IS BAD AND IT SHOULD FEEL BAD
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Post by bandmom2009 on Nov 10, 2023 21:17:48 GMT -6
Blame the Greek Heroes of this weekend if you’re upset about the change Oh I do blame the uproar at what (deservingly) happened in 2015 As a hebron mom I'd love to hear the tea. What happened?
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Post by twhsalumniparent on Nov 10, 2023 21:20:49 GMT -6
Oh I do blame the uproar at what (deservingly) happened in 2015 As a hebron mom I'd love to hear the tea. What happened? 2015 Hebron finished 1st in semifinals but drew the #1 spot for finals and ended up 3rd.
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Post by bigtrombone on Nov 10, 2023 21:24:52 GMT -6
Oh I do blame the uproar at what (deservingly) happened in 2015 As a hebron mom I'd love to hear the tea. What happened? Long story short; in 2015, Hebron made their first trip up to Grand Nationals. In semis they won Class AAAA beating both Broken Arrow & Avon, while also setting (at the time) the new highest score at a BOA event. For finals Hebron drew 1st for the evening, while Broken Arrow drew the final performance slot and Avon if I remember correctly performed somewhere in the middle of finals. Both of them jumped Hebron in finals with Broken Arrow winning their 3rd Grand National title. A big stink was raised by some people saying that if Hebron had a better draw they would've and could've won. For 2016, the rules then changed to a bottom half/top half scoring split for finals at the Super Regionals & Grand Nationals (the regionals were already doing this split prior to 2016). Hence, where we are today. Honestly, I'm of the opinion Hebron could've won Grand Nats in 2015 going on first but their visual performance compared to Broken Arrow & Avon, just wasn't their strong suit.
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Post by grumpybanddad on Nov 10, 2023 21:26:11 GMT -6
Archbishop alter not being one of the 1A band has me a bit shocked
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Post by bingogooberman on Nov 10, 2023 21:28:29 GMT -6
Never at Grand Nationals. Closest you’ll get is performance slot #2: Marian Catholic 1989. The culmination of their 3-peat and 4th in 5 years. Don’t recall if anyone else has done that. bell in 2007 won after going 2nd in finals if memory serves
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Post by bandmom2009 on Nov 10, 2023 21:29:29 GMT -6
As a hebron mom I'd love to hear the tea. What happened? Long story short; in 2015, Hebron made their first trip down to Grand Nationals. In semis they won Class AAAA beating both Broken Arrow & Avon, while also setting (at the time) the new highest score at a BOA event. For finals Hebron drew 1st for the evening, while Broken Arrow drew the final performance slot and Avon if I remember correctly performed somewhere in the middle of finals. Both of them jumped Hebron in finals with Broken Arrow winning their 3rd Grand National title. A big stink was raised by some people saying that if Hebron had a better draw they would've and could've won. For 2016, the rules then changed to a bottom half/top half scoring split for finals at the Super Regionals & Grand Nationals (the regionals were already doing this split prior to 2016). Hence, where we are today. Honestly, I'm of the opinion Hebron could've won Grand Nats in 2015 going on first but their visual performance compared to Broken Arrow & Avon, just wasn't their strong suit. Thank you and twhsalumniparentMy son was out there in 2019 and now my daughter, so I'm pretty clueless about a lot of this.
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Nov 10, 2023 21:51:33 GMT -6
Only got three hours of sleep Wednesday night, but got to see all bands live today from top row in section 240, almost on the 50. A wonderful day. I'm sorry never to have made it to Grand Nationals before this. Too tired to say much now. Two quick thoughts: 1. Despite having twice attended DCI Finals, I didn't anticipate how much differently bands sound due to the dome echo even in what ought to be a really good seat. 2. What is it about the Lucas Oil experience that causes so many bands to have electronics issues? (There were three in a row this morning and a few others later.) My personal favorites for the day were: 1. Avon 2. Carmel 3. Pearland 4. William Mason 5. Fishers 6. Claudia Taylor Johnson 7. Nation Ford 8. Morton 9. Centerville 10. Brownsburg 11. James Bowie 12. Homestead Doubtless the judges will disagree. They like things I don't. I like things they don't. Just noticed that I had accidentally omitted Carroll from this list on Thursday. At that point, I had Carroll at 8th, between Nation Ford and Morton. Speaking of Nation Ford, I was very glad that they advanced to semifinals, because I had assured some anxious (but also very loud) N.F. parents on Thursday that they were a lock for Saturday.
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Post by bigtrombone on Nov 10, 2023 21:57:40 GMT -6
As a hebron mom I'd love to hear the tea. What happened? Long story short; in 2015, Hebron made their first trip down to Grand Nationals. In semis they won Class AAAA beating both Broken Arrow & Avon, while also setting (at the time) the new highest score at a BOA event. For finals Hebron drew 1st for the evening, while Broken Arrow drew the final performance slot and Avon if I remember correctly performed somewhere in the middle of finals. Both of them jumped Hebron in finals with Broken Arrow winning their 3rd Grand National title. A big stink was raised by some people saying that if Hebron had a better draw they would've and could've won. For 2016, the rules then changed to a bottom half/top half scoring split for finals at the Super Regionals & Grand Nationals (the regionals were already doing this split prior to 2016). Hence, where we are today. Honestly, I'm of the opinion Hebron could've won Grand Nats in 2015 going on first but their visual performance compared to Broken Arrow & Avon, just wasn't their strong suit. Also coincidentally, to this day, Hebron & Broken Arrow haven't competed against each other since, but if Hebron continues on their current cycle of every 4 years, when they return in 2027, they'll likely go against each other again.
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Post by tarheel36 on Nov 10, 2023 22:48:26 GMT -6
As a hebron mom I'd love to hear the tea. What happened? 2015 Hebron finished 1st in semifinals but drew the #1 spot for finals and ended up 3rd. They finished 1st in semifinals ***with the highest BOA score of all time*** (at the time) and then somehow lost Finals mere hours later.
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Nov 10, 2023 22:54:18 GMT -6
Here's my final prediction for semis: Panel 1: 1. William Mason, OH (4A) 2. Blue Springs, MO (3A) 3. Pearland, TX (4A) 4. Round Rock, TX (4A) 5. Bentonville, AR (4A) 6. Dripping Springs, TX (4A) 7. Keller, TX (4A) 8. James Bowie, TX (4A) 9. T. L. Hanna, SC (3A) 10. Walled Lake, MI (4A) 11. Morton, IL (2A) Panel 2: 1. Hebron, TX (4A) 2. Carmel, IN (4A) 3. Avon, IN (4A) 4. The Woodlands, TX (4A) 5. Brownsburg, IN (4A) 6. Claudia Taylor Johnson, TX (4A) 7. Fishers, IN (4A) 8. Carroll, IN (4A) 9. Center Grove, IN (4A) 10. Dartmouth, MA (2A) 11. Kiski Area, PA (2A) Next 8: 1. Homestead, IN (3A-2) 2. Bartlett, TN (4A-2) 3. Lawrence Township, IN (4A-1) 4. Centerville, OH (4A-2) 5. Marian Catholic, IL (1A-1) 6. Rockford, MI (3A-2) 7. Nation Ford, SC (3A-2) 8. Arlington, TN (3A-2) Class Reps: Panel 1: Bourbon County, KY (1A) Worthington Kilbourne, OH (2A) Panel 2: Estill County, KY (1A) Beechwood, KY (1A) The 2024 BOA Grand Nationals Prelims have played their final notes so now it is time to list my final Panel 2 rankings an general Overall rankings. It’s been fun watching and listening to all of these groups and of course commentating with everyone here during this time. We’ve got one final day though so let’s soak it in. Without further ado though, here ya go.... Overall Rankings (through top 30 + next 2) 1. Avon 2. Hebron 3. The Woodlands 4. Carmel 5. William Mason 6. Blue Springs 7. Round Rock 8. Bentonville 9. Pearland 10. Brownsburg 11. Dartmouth 12. Fishers 13. Claudia Taylor Johnson 14. Homestead 15. Dripping Springs 16. Carroll 17. Centerville 18. Keller 19. James Bowie 20. Kiski Area 21. Morton 22. Rockford 23. Bartlett 24. Marian Catholic 25. Center Grove 26. Walled Lake 27. Arlington 28. Bourbon County 29. Nation Ford 30. TL Hanna Next 2 - Blue Valley and Lawrence Township Class Reps include: Norton (Class A Rep 2 - Panel 1) Estill County (Class A Rep 1 - Panel 2) Beechwood (Class A Rep 2 - Panel 2) 33 bands total in semifinals! Doubt that that would happen but we’ll see.
It’s important to note as well that a lot of these groups are in very tight bubbles and could easily see many of them changing. It’s all a matter of opinion really at that point but really, none of these spots truly feels 100% as this has been one of the closest and tightest scoring years I’ve ever witnessed. It is a testament to all of these groups just how much hard work they put in. Can not say enough just what a great job and season it has been to witness. Thank you!I had to deal with something sporadically today and missed Bourbon County's performance (and only saw parts of Neosho and William Howard Taft from the far side -- what was the title of Taft's show, by the way? it's not in the program book), but otherwise, this is what I thought the results should be: 1. Avon (P2 #1) 2. Carmel (P2 #2) 3. The Woodlands (P2 #3) 4. Hebron (P2 #4) 5. Pearland (P1 #1) 6. William Mason (P1 #2) 7. Keller (P1 #3) 8. Fishers (P2 #5) 9. Claudia Taylor Johnson (P2 #6) 10. Round Rock (P1 #4) 11. Nation Ford (P2 #7) 12. Blue Springs (P1 #5) 13. Carroll (P2 #8) 14. Morton (P1 #6) 15. Centerville (P2 #9) 16. Brownsburg (P2 #10) 17. Dripping Springs (P1 #7) 18. James Bowie (P1 #8) 19. Bentonville (P1 #9) 20. Homestead (P2 #11) 21. Lawrence Township (P1 #10) 22. Dartmouth (P2 #12 - next eight #1) 23. Lake Hamilton (P2 #13 - next eight #2) 24. Bartlett (P2 #14 - next eight #3) 25. T.L. Hanna (P1 #11) ( did not advance) 26. Rockford (P2 #15 - next eight #4) ( did not advance) 27. Kiski Area (P2 #16 - next eight #5) 28. Marian Catholic (P1 #12 - next eight #6) 29. Walled Lake (P1 #13 - next eight #7) 30. Miamisburg (P1 #14 - next eight #8) So the judges agreed that 28 of what I thought were the top 30 bands watching live should advance to Semifinals. I think last year they agreed with me on 29 of the 30 bands when I was watching on the stream. So maybe the lesson is it's better to watch the shows from home? I really doesn't feel that way! I've only seen a handful of finalist-caliber bands live before, and then only mid-season. It's an incredible experience seeing these groups the past two days. My top four are only separated by about a point, and I think it could still go any way. (Obviously they didn't agree with me about placements at multiple points. And there is one band farther down the list that I expect the judges will move to finals, as they have before despite my dissatisfaction with that group's shows. I'll just have to accept it.) (My next two bands were Blue Valley and Milford; I had PCEP three back from those two. As for class representatives, I hadn't noted those on the list I made before driving to Indianapolis late Wednesday night, so I wasn't tracking that, but I had Estill County, Archbishop Alter, and Beechwood in that order, but all within one point of each other.)
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Post by aiden on Nov 10, 2023 23:16:36 GMT -6
I ate a lot of pretzels during prelims
Pretzel count: 15 🥨 Will update amount during semis
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Post by pennylane on Nov 10, 2023 23:42:33 GMT -6
2015 Hebron finished 1st in semifinals but drew the #1 spot for finals and ended up 3rd. They finished 1st in semifinals ***with the highest BOA score of all time*** (at the time) and then somehow lost Finals mere hours later. they did win every music judge that night but Broken Arrow's visual was too good. really not a big mystery
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Post by vidal28rdg on Nov 11, 2023 0:42:16 GMT -6
They finished 1st in semifinals ***with the highest BOA score of all time*** (at the time) and then somehow lost Finals mere hours later. they did win every music judge that night but Broken Arrow's visual was too good. really not a big mystery Definitely a mystery when you set the record for scoring just earlier on in the same day, would beg to differ on that one. Either band of course had what it took to win so it’s an eternal debate to have in any case had things turned out differently. I wouldn’t want roles being reversed, I would’ve liked a back-to-back comparison more than anything else between the two on the biggest stage for those groups’ final performances, and I’m sure the spectators would’ve enjoyed that a lot more compared to what they got back then!!
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Post by lostchoirguy on Nov 11, 2023 0:56:57 GMT -6
Broken Arrow's show that year was definitely deserving of winning the eagle. Hebron's as well. Most years there are multiple groups good enough to come out on top given the right performance. I think the Hebron 2015 experience really was just a matter of realizing that the top contenders should be given more fair slots together so that the judges can really compare. Plus there is something about the excitement of an event that propels forward the enjoyment and when a group is the first to go, they have to create that excitement from scratch. Usually the last to go have a built in advantage with giving the final thrills. Plus in most contests there are more people in the audience at the end as lots of parents come only just before their group starts and then watch to the end and since people are getting ready for the awards ceremony. 2015 is in the past so it doesn't really matter, but this change was made to try to prevent any possible further controversy and I think it has been a good one, aside from making it so hard for anyone in the bottom half to move into the top half.
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Post by averageboafan on Nov 11, 2023 7:17:22 GMT -6
Most years there are multiple groups good enough to come out on top given the right performance. Like this year. A few bands could win it and I would understand.
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Post by dbalash on Nov 11, 2023 9:37:58 GMT -6
Here's my final prediction for semis: Panel 1: 1. William Mason, OH (4A) 2. Blue Springs, MO (3A) 3. Pearland, TX (4A) 4. Round Rock, TX (4A) 5. Bentonville, AR (4A) 6. Dripping Springs, TX (4A) 7. Keller, TX (4A) 8. James Bowie, TX (4A) 9. T. L. Hanna, SC (3A) 10. Walled Lake, MI (4A) 11. Morton, IL (2A) Panel 2: 1. Hebron, TX (4A) 2. Carmel, IN (4A) 3. Avon, IN (4A) 4. The Woodlands, TX (4A) 5. Brownsburg, IN (4A) 6. Claudia Taylor Johnson, TX (4A) 7. Fishers, IN (4A) 8. Carroll, IN (4A) 9. Center Grove, IN (4A) 10. Dartmouth, MA (2A) 11. Kiski Area, PA (2A) Next 8: 1. Homestead, IN (3A-2) 2. Bartlett, TN (4A-2) 3. Lawrence Township, IN (4A-1) 4. Centerville, OH (4A-2) 5. Marian Catholic, IL (1A-1) 6. Rockford, MI (3A-2) 7. Nation Ford, SC (3A-2) 8. Arlington, TN (3A-2) Class Reps: Panel 1: Bourbon County, KY (1A) Worthington Kilbourne, OH (2A) Panel 2: Estill County, KY (1A) Beechwood, KY (1A) The 2024 BOA Grand Nationals Prelims have played their final notes so now it is time to list my final Panel 2 rankings an general Overall rankings. It’s been fun watching and listening to all of these groups and of course commentating with everyone here during this time. We’ve got one final day though so let’s soak it in. Without further ado though, here ya go.... Overall Rankings (through top 30 + next 2) 1. Avon 2. Hebron 3. The Woodlands 4. Carmel 5. William Mason 6. Blue Springs 7. Round Rock 8. Bentonville 9. Pearland 10. Brownsburg 11. Dartmouth 12. Fishers 13. Claudia Taylor Johnson 14. Homestead 15. Dripping Springs 16. Carroll 17. Centerville 18. Keller 19. James Bowie 20. Kiski Area 21. Morton 22. Rockford 23. Bartlett 24. Marian Catholic 25. Center Grove 26. Walled Lake 27. Arlington 28. Bourbon County 29. Nation Ford 30. TL Hanna Next 2 - Blue Valley and Lawrence Township Class Reps include: Norton (Class A Rep 2 - Panel 1) Estill County (Class A Rep 1 - Panel 2) Beechwood (Class A Rep 2 - Panel 2) 33 bands total in semifinals! Doubt that that would happen but we’ll see.
It’s important to note as well that a lot of these groups are in very tight bubbles and could easily see many of them changing. It’s all a matter of opinion really at that point but really, none of these spots truly feels 100% as this has been one of the closest and tightest scoring years I’ve ever witnessed. It is a testament to all of these groups just how much hard work they put in. Can not say enough just what a great job and season it has been to witness. Thank you!I had to deal with something sporadically today and missed Bourbon County's performance (and only saw parts of Neosho and William Howard Taft from the far side -- what was the title of Taft's show, by the way? it's not in the program book), but otherwise, this is what I thought the results should be: 1. Avon (P2 #1) 2. Carmel (P2 #2) 3. The Woodlands (P2 #3) 4. Hebron (P2 #4) 5. Pearland (P1 #1) 6. William Mason (P1 #2) 7. Keller (P1 #3) 8. Fishers (P2 #5) 9. Claudia Taylor Johnson (P2 #6) 10. Round Rock (P1 #4) 11. Nation Ford (P2 #7) 12. Blue Springs (P1 #5) 13. Carroll (P2 #8) 14. Morton (P1 #6) 15. Centerville (P2 #9) 16. Brownsburg (P2 #10) 17. Dripping Springs (P1 #7) 18. James Bowie (P1 #8) 19. Bentonville (P1 #9) 20. Homestead (P2 #11) 21. Lawrence Township (P1 #10) 22. Dartmouth (P2 #12 - next eight #1) 23. Lake Hamilton (P2 #13 - next eight #2) 24. Bartlett (P2 #14 - next eight #3) 25. T.L. Hanna (P1 #11) ( did not advance) 26. Rockford (P2 #15 - next eight #4) ( did not advance) 27. Kiski Area (P2 #16 - next eight #5) 28. Marian Catholic (P1 #12 - next eight #6) 29. Walled Lake (P1 #13 - next eight #7) 30. Miamisburg (P1 #14 - next eight #8) So the judges agreed that 28 of what I thought were the top 30 bands watching live should advance to Semifinals. I think last year they agreed with me on 29 of the 30 bands when I was watching on the stream. So maybe the lesson is it's better to watch the shows from home? I really doesn't feel that way! I've only seen a handful of finalist-caliber bands live before, and then only mid-season. It's an incredible experience seeing these groups the past two days. My top four are only separated by about a point, and I think it could still go any way. (Obviously they didn't agree with me about placements at multiple points. And there is one band farther down the list that I expect the judges will move to finals, as they have before despite my dissatisfaction with that group's shows. I'll just have to accept it.) (My next two bands were Blue Valley and Milford; I had PCEP three back from those two. As for class representatives, I hadn't noted those on the list I made before driving to Indianapolis late Wednesday night, so I wasn't tracking that, but I had Estill County, Archbishop Alter, and Beechwood in that order, but all within one point of each other.) Taft’s show was titled “Down The Rabbit Hole.”
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ashul
Full Member
Posts: 33
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Post by ashul on Nov 11, 2023 11:16:27 GMT -6
they did win every music judge that night but Broken Arrow's visual was too good. really not a big mystery Definitely a mystery when you set the record for scoring just earlier on in the same day, would beg to differ on that one. Either band of course had what it took to win so it’s an eternal debate to have in any case had things turned out differently. I wouldn’t want roles being reversed, I would’ve liked a back-to-back comparison more than anything else between the two on the biggest stage for those groups’ final performances, and I’m sure the spectators would’ve enjoyed that a lot more compared to what they got back then!! Broken Arrow won prelims as well. It isn’t that controversial that they came back and won finals.
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Post by southcarolina on Nov 11, 2023 11:43:43 GMT -6
TL Hanna got 37th in prelims they definitely should've made semis
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Post by perhapsahebronkid on Nov 11, 2023 12:01:53 GMT -6
TL Hanna got 37th in prelims they definitely should've made semis Do you know the results?
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Post by yayband914 on Nov 11, 2023 12:02:24 GMT -6
TL Hanna got 37th in prelims they definitely should've made semis There is no way you can know this.
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 11, 2023 12:44:36 GMT -6
TL Hanna got 37th in prelims they definitely should've made semis There is no way you can know this. Maybe AJ Pace pulled it out of them
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Post by thewho on Nov 11, 2023 12:52:16 GMT -6
TL Hanna got 37th in prelims they definitely should've made semis Results are not out yet. Do not bait.
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Post by southcarolina on Nov 11, 2023 14:33:45 GMT -6
TL Hanna got 37th in prelims they definitely should've made semis Results are not out yet. Do not bait. how am I baiting if I was told by someone in the band and they got it from their directors
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Post by thewho on Nov 11, 2023 14:42:33 GMT -6
Results are not out yet. Do not bait. how am I baiting if I was told by someone in the band and they got it from their directors I am literally on the BOA staff. Results don't go out until after finals. Cut the crap.
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bflat
Full Member
Posts: 29
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Post by bflat on Nov 11, 2023 14:49:43 GMT -6
Center Grove is a very talented band, but this show has really never worked for me. That being said, those woodwinds in the opener were excellent. It’s very entertaining. I love the music & the singer is excellent, but I always wonder, do they not lose points for only using 1/4 of the field and the winds only playing 1/2 of the time. That’s not a criticism, just an observation and I’m not super familiar about how they are judged. In theory they should score lower overall because judges are supposed to consider demand, not just execution. They've been doing a very similar show design for the better part of a decade and it's clearly less demand than a lot of other designs, especially in their class. But they somehow get a pass on demand from ISSMA judges and often from BOA judges, depending on the contest. The students are definitely talented and are doing what is asked of them, but the show design should not score as high as it often does (This is my personal unpopular opinion. Yeah yeah, "clean beats complicated", but this is in a different category). I'll be curious to see the prelims scores to see what judges thought this time....
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Post by 70sguardchick on Nov 11, 2023 14:56:30 GMT -6
how am I baiting if I was told by someone in the band and they got it from their directors I am literally on the BOA staff. Results don't go out until after finals. Cut the crap. This. Someone on BOA staff asked about scores last night and was give a fast and firm no. They have not been seen outside tabulation. I’m also event staff and I have no idea.
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Post by southcarolina on Nov 11, 2023 15:00:12 GMT -6
I am literally on the BOA staff. Results don't go out until after finals. Cut the crap. This. Someone on BOA staff asked about scores last night and was give a fast and firm no. They have not been seen outside tabulation. I’m also event staff and I have no idea. it’s okay to be mad but that what I heard buddy
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Post by southcarolina on Nov 11, 2023 15:01:24 GMT -6
This. Someone on BOA staff asked about scores last night and was give a fast and firm no. They have not been seen outside tabulation. I’m also event staff and I have no idea. it’s okay to be mad but that what I heard buddy we will see who is wrong and right!
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