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Post by madisonbandman1 on Jun 3, 2022 1:31:29 GMT -6
Also would you mind expanding on what you mean by "pulling a 2019?"
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Post by bigtrombone on Jun 3, 2022 8:47:44 GMT -6
List of World Class Corps and their 2022 Productions (as of 6/28/22):
- The Academy (A World of My Creation) - Blue Devils (Tempus Blue) - Blue Knights (Vibe) - Blue Stars (Of War and Peace) - Bluecoats (Riffs and Revelations) - Boston Crusaders (Paradise Lost) - The Cadets (Rearview Mirror) - Carolina Crown (Right Here, Right Now) - The Cavaliers (Signs of the Times) - Colts (The Silk Road) - Crossmen (The Mobius Trip) - Genesis (Dorothy) - Jersey Surf (Meet Me in Atlantic City) - Madison Scouts (Installation 85) - Mandarins (The Other Side) - Music City (Gasoline Rainbows) - Pacific Crest (Welcome To The Void) - Phantom Regiment (No Walk Too Far) - Santa Clara Vanguard (Finding Nirvana) - Troopers (VorAcious)
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Post by Shroom on Jun 3, 2022 9:57:53 GMT -6
Also would you mind expanding on what you mean by "pulling a 2019?" By that I mean a really strong hornline with poor boring visual/show design, which imo is what they were in 2019 and 2018. The show aesthetic from the teaser decal seems super similar to 2019, and the music choice seems to also be somewhat similar.
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Post by dbalash on Jun 3, 2022 11:15:35 GMT -6
If I'm being honest with the exception of Troopers, BD, Boston and maybe Cadets this year's design seems very underwhelming. Maybe the visual design will hardcore pull through but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this year is going to be the epitome of cliche modern show design. I usually enjoy more modern shows but, there is a limit to be drawn when every corps basically does the same show every year with a color palette change. Crown, Phantom and BK seem to especially be a let down this year with music choice. Crown kinda just seems like they're gonna pull a 2019 2.0 and BK is going to do the same tired show they've done since like 2014. I like Godspeed! from Phantom but the rest of their repertoire doesn't seem like anything that anyone will remember a year or two from now. Cadets this year seem like their show will either be the best thing they've done since 2013 or a train wreck worse than 2017, but I'm eternally optimistic. Vanguard and Bloo haven't given show/repertoire reveals yet, and while I'm never too big a fan of their shows, I'm sure they'll both be passable and at least one of the two will medal. I don't really see Mandies or Cross making finals this year based off 2021, especially with Troopers, Pacific and Madison all looking extremely strong after this past year or so. I'm just hoping that the Cavies (the best corps) come in with some god-tier show design like and get like 3rd or something Having had the blessing of getting to see crown this year, I would like to tell you that I *completely* disagree with you on that one. (It doesn't help that I know chandelier sounds great on the field if done by the right group, and crown is knocking it out of the park both in performance and arrangement. I think you might be really surprised with how all of it comes together. May be the hardest book they have done frankly btw. But your opinion on repertoire is your own and your taste for music is different from mine so you still might not like it after seeing it live...but I have a hunch you'll love it because it is hard not to love anything crown puts on the field and what they have this year is just awesome lol. Meh. Haven't enjoyed a Crown show, oh, in about 10+ years. 🤷♂️
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Post by philodemus on Jun 3, 2022 12:01:44 GMT -6
Having had the blessing of getting to see crown this year, I would like to tell you that I *completely* disagree with you on that one. (It doesn't help that I know chandelier sounds great on the field if done by the right group, and crown is knocking it out of the park both in performance and arrangement. I think you might be really surprised with how all of it comes together. May be the hardest book they have done frankly btw. But your opinion on repertoire is your own and your taste for music is different from mine so you still might not like it after seeing it live...but I have a hunch you'll love it because it is hard not to love anything crown puts on the field and what they have this year is just awesome lol. Meh. Haven't enjoyed a Crown show, oh, in about 10+ years. 🤷♂️ I need an emoji for, "I understand all aesthetic discussion is subjective, and respect your right to your own take... but... like, even 2016? For real, though?"
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Post by saturdaynightlights on Jun 4, 2022 22:04:12 GMT -6
Meh. Haven't enjoyed a Crown show, oh, in about 10+ years. 🤷♂️ I need an emoji for, "I understand all aesthetic discussion is subjective, and respect your right to your own take... but... like, even 2016? For real, though?" Honestly the last crown show I was really into was 2013... 2008-2012 were probably the pinnacle of their show design for me though.
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Post by supersound on Jun 5, 2022 11:03:30 GMT -6
Meh. Haven't enjoyed a Crown show, oh, in about 10+ years. 🤷♂️ I need an emoji for, "I understand all aesthetic discussion is subjective, and respect your right to your own take... but... like, even 2016? For real, though?" 2016 is probably one of my least favorite Crown shows as well, well performed but it just felt very hollow and forced to me
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Post by philodemus on Jun 9, 2022 8:37:44 GMT -6
Huh! Well, apparently I am in the minority... 2012-16 are really gold, for me. Such creative drill writing, and of course the playing was phenomenal. I've been less into it since BAC hired, like, their entire visual staff from them.
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Post by saturdaynightlights on Jun 9, 2022 10:00:27 GMT -6
Huh! Well, apparently I am in the minority... 2012-16 are really gold, for me. Such creative drill writing, and of course the playing was phenomenal. I've been less into it since BAC hired, like, their entire visual staff from them. In fairness, I haven't seen anything from them that I've even somewhat enjoyed beyond marveling at their technicality since 2016. I also think one of my big frustrations with them is that most of the technical sections they do are just that, and don't feel like they contribute to the larger piece other than going "hey! look what we can do!". In fact it actively interrupts the flow and immersion of the show for me.
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Post by Shroom on Jun 12, 2022 12:23:04 GMT -6
I feel like Crown almost always has the ability to score at least 2nd every year but their shows are almost always the soulless epitome of modern design.
I don't remember if it was here or DCP, but I remember reading this thread somewhere where someone posted that if you were to put every corps in the same uniform it'd be basically impossible to tell which corps is which based on show design. Obviously this is applicable to every era of DCI, but for me at least it feels like the degree to which this is true has increased noticeably (especially post 2016) and most shows are a lot more cookie cutter than they were even 10 years ago.
In terms of Crown though I will say they always have at least one part of their show that I love. Their ballad in 2018 ended up being my favorite by the end of the season, and the visual and musical motifs that 2017 had made the show much more memorable in comparison to most shows that year.
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Post by lowbrasssax on Jun 21, 2022 12:06:52 GMT -6
Blue Stars: "Of War and Peace"
-War and Peace Symphonic Suite by Serge Prokofiev
-Ballad of an Unknown Boy by Serge Prokofiev
-Variations for Oboe and Military Band by Nicolai Rimsky-Korsakov
-No One Else by Dave Malloy
-Confrontation on Eadu by Michael Giacchino
-Dust and Ashes by Dave Malloy
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Post by marimba11 on Jun 21, 2022 12:54:12 GMT -6
I feel like Crown almost always has the ability to score at least 2nd every year but their shows are almost always the soulless epitome of modern design. I don't remember if it was here or DCP, but I remember reading this thread somewhere where someone posted that if you were to put every corps in the same uniform it'd be basically impossible to tell which corps is which based on show design. Obviously this is applicable to every era of DCI, but for me at least it feels like the degree to which this is true has increased noticeably (especially post 2016) and most shows are a lot more cookie cutter than they were even 10 years ago. In terms of Crown though I will say they always have at least one part of their show that I love. Their ballad in 2018 ended up being my favorite by the end of the season, and the visual and musical motifs that 2017 had made the show much more memorable in comparison to most shows that year. I actually completely disagree. I think they're all very different. Crown's issue is that their music design is not as engaging as say Bluecoats. The members then end up working harder to clean to get more GE out of the music vs the Bluecoats can have a little more dirt and still beat them. We have seen this play out in scores since 2016. Crown's problem is David Starnes and Rick Subel think too one dimensionally and Jeff's drill lacks a complete thought. Maybe this year will be different.
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Post by bigtrombone on Jun 25, 2022 18:20:47 GMT -6
Madison Scouts: "Installation 85"
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Post by lowbrasssax on Jun 28, 2022 16:19:05 GMT -6
Bluecoats: Riffs and Revelations
Taming the Dragon by Brad Mehldau and Mark Guiliana Taizo by FORQ Nautilus by Anna Meredith Momento Magico by Youn Sun Nah moonmoons by Anna Meredith The Garden by Brad Mehldau
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Post by dbalash on Jun 28, 2022 16:25:31 GMT -6
Bluecoats: Riffs and Revelations Taming the Dragon by Brad Mehldau and Mark Guiliana Taizo by FORQ Nautilus by Anna Meredith Momento Magico by Youn Sun Nah moonmoons by Anna Meredith The Garden by Brad Mehldau Yet another show I recognize exactly none of the music. Eh. Oh well.
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Post by lowbrasssax on Jun 28, 2022 16:32:10 GMT -6
Jersey Surf: Meet Me in Atlantic City
Pure Imagination- Leslie Bricusse and Anthony Newley Wayside Festival- Rick DeJonge Big Girls Don't Cry- Bon Crewe and Bob Gaudio Sherry- Bob Gaudio Walk Like a Man- Bob Crewe and Bob Gaudio Can't Take My Eyes Off You- Bob Crewe and Bob Gaudio Who Loves You- Bob Crewe and Judy Parker Livin' On A Prayer- Jon Bon Jovi, Richie Sambora, Desmond Child December 1963 (Oh, What a Night)- Bob Gaudio and Judy Parker
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Post by madisonbandman1 on Jul 7, 2022 23:47:47 GMT -6
Didn't feel like creating a DCI 2022 general thread to only post this so I am just going to leave it here.
I have an odd feeling that there is a Brass instructor who is going to probably have a lot more time on his hands to work with a certain corps during the summer relatively soon (unless he decides to leave the industry in the entirety which could happen) and if he does I see him starting to become a big time mainstay for the program and soon they'll be competing for Ott's right alongside Harloff and Crown year to year.
I think he is cementing himself as one of THE best brass instructors in the country, bar only Harloff. But it depends on if he is losing his love for the activity itself, or his love for teaching where he is during the year. From what I have seen on recent posts with social media and what I know about him personally, I think it is only the latter.
I am being intentionally vague because I don't know for a fact if this guy is leaving his program right now, but it is pretty obvious he is very close to it. One of the premier programs in the country, and unfortunately I think they are about to lose their shining star. Has nothing to do with the students or anything he did, thankfully.
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Post by elsie on Jul 8, 2022 3:06:47 GMT -6
Didn't feel like creating a DCI 2022 general thread to only post this so I am just going to leave it here. I have an odd feeling that there is a Brass instructor who is going to probably have a lot more time on his hands to work with a certain corps during the summer relatively soon (unless he decides to leave the industry in the entirety which could happen) and if he does I see him starting to become a big time mainstay for the program and soon they'll be competing for Ott's right alongside Harloff and Crown year to year. I think he is cementing himself as one of THE best brass instructors in the country, bar only Harloff. But it depends on if he is losing his love for the activity itself, or his love for teaching where he is during the year. From what I have seen on recent posts with social media and what I know about him personally, I think it is only the latter. I am being intentionally vague because I don't know for a fact if this guy is leaving his program right now, but it is pretty obvious he is very close to it. One of the premier programs in the country, and unfortunately I think they are about to lose their shining star. Has nothing to do with the students or anything he did, thankfully. It’s not Lipman… is it?
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jul 8, 2022 6:54:12 GMT -6
Didn't feel like creating a DCI 2022 general thread to only post this so I am just going to leave it here. I have an odd feeling that there is a Brass instructor who is going to probably have a lot more time on his hands to work with a certain corps during the summer relatively soon (unless he decides to leave the industry in the entirety which could happen) and if he does I see him starting to become a big time mainstay for the program and soon they'll be competing for Ott's right alongside Harloff and Crown year to year. I think he is cementing himself as one of THE best brass instructors in the country, bar only Harloff. But it depends on if he is losing his love for the activity itself, or his love for teaching where he is during the year. From what I have seen on recent posts with social media and what I know about him personally, I think it is only the latter. I am being intentionally vague because I don't know for a fact if this guy is leaving his program right now, but it is pretty obvious he is very close to it. One of the premier programs in the country, and unfortunately I think they are about to lose their shining star. Has nothing to do with the students or anything he did, thankfully. It’s not Lipman… is it? my guess as well. For several reasons.
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Post by dbalash on Jul 8, 2022 19:23:30 GMT -6
I know I'm going to sound "old man get off my lawn" here, but from watching videos...no one's design impresses me. Crown is Crown (with their cheesiest design since Rach Star), to watch Bluecoats you have to be on all sorts of edibles, Boston, eh, Cadets....., Blue Devils and Vanguard. My biggest disappointment so far is Blue Knights. It always takes me longer to get into their shows, and right now it feels like there's nothing there.
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Post by josephbandfan on Jul 8, 2022 20:00:23 GMT -6
Get off my lawn
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Post by Shroom on Jul 8, 2022 21:31:10 GMT -6
I know I'm going to sound "old man get off my lawn" here, but from watching videos...no one's design impresses me. Crown is Crown (with their cheesiest design since Rach Star), to watch Bluecoats you have to be on all sorts of edibles, Boston, eh, Cadets....., Blue Devils and Vanguard. My biggest disappointment so far is Blue Knights. It always takes me longer to get into their shows, and right now it feels like there's nothing there. Yea I'm in the same boat. I honestly enjoyed BOA finalists bands way more than most corps this year in terms of design, which is something I never thought I'd say. Obviously in terms of execution they're nowhere near what a corps can put on the field but, we're to the point now where nobody in DCI seems to be innovating on show design and execution at all, which isn't at all what I see in top high school programs. I'm never going to see some kid from Hebron jazz run at 210 BPM across the field playing sixteenth notes like they're from Crown or something, but I think the difference year to year in the high school scene is much greater and much more entertaining than DCI, especially after the pandemic. Obviously I am generalizing but the activity feels insanely stagnant compared to what it was basically anytime before 2017 or so. Also, in terms of design I do find Bloo very enjoyable even if the show lacks a lot of substance compared to something like 2018, and Cadets and Phantom seem to be walking at a very slow pace towards the right direction, but I do think there are some shining stars this year which make the activity much more palatable. I absolutely hated Cavies the first few comps but I think their show design is coming together much better than I had originally hoped, and Blue Stars and Troopers imo have the best show that either of the corps have put out in the past decade or so.
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Post by madisonbandman1 on Jul 11, 2022 19:15:51 GMT -6
Yeah I meant Lipman. I left his name out intentionally because it isn't my place to say something directly about him like that, and one can't know what is really going on in his head, but knowing him personally and from what I have seen on social media it seems very clear that he is going to be done with teaching in the public education sector very soon. He seems very unhappy with things going on behind the scenes, and it definitely has nothing to do with the students and the band itself. He also seems to be more and more enthused to work with BAC with time.
I believe he is probably going to start focusing more on politics soon as he is getting his masters in Public Administration. That is why I think he is going to have a lot more time to spend with BAC in the future, and why I said that I think that soon BAC will start competing for Otts more frequently, as I believe whole heartedly that other than Andy Sealy he would be about the only person to really start challenging Harloff. I can hear it in Boston's sound, and its only getting better year to year. The clarity in their sound is really starting to shine.
Of course all of this is just a theory as of right now but hey what is the world without tinfoil hats right? I got shot down fast on the DCP forums as trying to "stir the pot" but I really wasn't. This is a theory that I have been sitting on for a while now in regards to Lipman potentially leaving teaching in the public education industry, and frankly I was nervous in the first place to even post about it because I don't know if it was going too far to make assumptions such as this about another director that I have met and held some great conversations with, and was in my own school district as I went through high school. It's why I left his name out, because I know both he and all of my former directors read this forum and once again, I can't tell you what is going on behind the scenes without being there myself.
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Post by madisonbandman1 on Jul 11, 2022 19:31:39 GMT -6
I know I'm going to sound "old man get off my lawn" here, but from watching videos...no one's design impresses me. Crown is Crown (with their cheesiest design since Rach Star), to watch Bluecoats you have to be on all sorts of edibles, Boston, eh, Cadets....., Blue Devils and Vanguard. My biggest disappointment so far is Blue Knights. It always takes me longer to get into their shows, and right now it feels like there's nothing there. To preface, I have yet to see all of the traditional finalist corps' shows, but I have seen most (10 of the 12 that were in finals in '19) and as of right now my favorite two designs are Crown and Blue Stars. I love Crown's show this year and think that it has a lot of room to grow and some changes that are very obviously coming, especially in different areas in the opener and closer. Plus, that multitongued ensemble section in the second movement is insane and I really appreciate the high velocity drill at the end of the closer. I love the Blue Stars show as well. I *completely* understood the concept from first viewing in the theater. Great choice of colors imo, and there are some really smart drill choices lending itself to the theme of the show as well. A cool progression of time throughout the show that I enjoy. The first BS show that I have personally really enjoyed in some time. Bloo is an acid roadtrip this year. I think if they took the voiceover and spliced it into smaller sections of voiceover that gave direction to the "trip" and let the ebbs and flow of the show design itself take you on the journey it would do much better in General Effect. I think the voiceover overshadows the experience too much. The big wheels driving over the ensemble is a cool moment though. BD is definitely very talented and perform well, but it just feels like they ran out of show ideas after Metamorph and said "eff it lets just put the same show out every year." It scores well, yes, but I think there will come a point in time when those shows aren't going to score so well for them anymore. They need to mix it up more. Maybe move away from the art show for a little bit, try something more visceral and aggressive like SCV stepped out of their box with Babylon, and Bloo stepping out of their box at the time for downside up. Once again, their show is very well performed, but it is just getting really stale for me personally. Oh and Phantom is back. Thank god JDS is back. Love their show too.
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Post by madisonbandman1 on Jul 11, 2022 19:45:48 GMT -6
You aren't wrong about corps not really stepping out of the box design wise this year, but that could also be tied to a few different reasons: lack of resources (from covid), not knowing how many holes were going to be filled and with what kind of talent this year (because of covid), and the fact that 2016-2019 were filled with pretty revolutionary shows on the top end of finals etcetera. Sometimes a year is just...a little more dull design wise. 2015 didn't really have the best designed shows for example., Most of us loved Inferno, Ink, and Kinetic Noise but they really weren't that revolutionary. The next four years had Downside Up, Relentless, Metamorph, Babylon, Bloo's giant chair and jazz show that I forget the name of, Beast with the entire male brass line going to trombones and other low brass instruments and having the all female high brass ensemble at the front in the ballad, and then in 2019 with Bloo's Beatles show. A gauntlet of incredible shows year after year can sometimes make a "quieter" year design wise feel like its trying to fill a void unsuccessfully.
Though I must say that crown's idea for the app is pretty genius, that is really cool. Also wonder how the voiceover is going to change throughout the season and what is going to be added/removed. Some areas are a little jarring and I anticipate some of it will probably change to allow for a smoother viewing experience. There is still a little over a month left until finals and a lot of shows to go for all of these shows to develop.
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Post by Shroom on Jul 12, 2022 7:49:52 GMT -6
I got shot down fast on the DCP forums as trying to "stir the pot" but I really wasn't. Being told you're wrong on DCP should give you reassurance that you're probably right
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Post by trumpet300 on Jul 30, 2022 19:34:40 GMT -6
Yeah I meant Lipman. I left his name out intentionally because it isn't my place to say something directly about him like that, and one can't know what is really going on in his head, but knowing him personally and from what I have seen on social media it seems very clear that he is going to be done with teaching in the public education sector very soon. He seems very unhappy with things going on behind the scenes, and it definitely has nothing to do with the students and the band itself. He also seems to be more and more enthused to work with BAC with time. I believe he is probably going to start focusing more on politics soon as he is getting his masters in Public Administration. That is why I think he is going to have a lot more time to spend with BAC in the future, and why I said that I think that soon BAC will start competing for Otts more frequently, as I believe whole heartedly that other than Andy Sealy he would be about the only person to really start challenging Harloff. I can hear it in Boston's sound, and its only getting better year to year. The clarity in their sound is really starting to shine. Of course all of this is just a theory as of right now but hey what is the world without tinfoil hats right? I got shot down fast on the DCP forums as trying to "stir the pot" but I really wasn't. This is a theory that I have been sitting on for a while now in regards to Lipman potentially leaving teaching in the public education industry, and frankly I was nervous in the first place to even post about it because I don't know if it was going too far to make assumptions such as this about another director that I have met and held some great conversations with, and was in my own school district as I went through high school. It's why I left his name out, because I know both he and all of my former directors read this forum and once again, I can't tell you what is going on behind the scenes without being there myself. I think in addition to Lipman, having Van Matthews has also really helped push Boston this season...their brass is notably better than they have been (not that its been bad) and I'm excited for them!!
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