Does the Independent World guard class need some “rules”?

[LeanderMomma]

First of all let me say that there are many absolutely phenomenal Independent World guards out there and I do enjoy watching them (especially guards like AMP who are all about the entertainment factor), but are we going too far with some of these groups? First of all there’s the lack of an age restriction. This alone made me think for the first time that maybe we need another class altogether for groups who want to stay active in guard past a certain age. Once you age out of IA and IO, why should you automatically be considered IW? Can’t we have an alternative like an exhibition or entertainment class? I also thought some of the themes a few of the IW groups had were absolutely not appropriate for a mostly high school aged audience. One show in particular seemed to be about nothing more than sex. It was enough to make me question whether I even wanted to return to WGI World Championships in the future. And I still don’t understand what happened with Northwest Independent ditching their actual show and performing something completely random in prelims.

Obviously I’m still learning a lot about winterguard so y’all feel free to school me on it!

[ilikeguard]

I have cold brain so my thoughts aren't exactly as coherent as I would like them to be, but I'm glad this thread was made so I can practice the healthy exercise of having opinions. 

I don't get the logic behind IW not having age restrictions. DCI World Class groups are still age restricted. I understand that groups designed for aged out performers have to go somewhere, but I can't help but wish they had their own designation...these performers are already competing at the same time as IW, so giving them their own class wouldn't throw off scheduling or anything like that. If anything, it would give those performers a better shot at performing in their OWN finals. I don't want to come across as "older people shouldn't do guard", because they should! They should also be rewarded through their own merits. 

I love art. I'm not a fan of censorship. However, I do worry sometimes that the material in IW can get a little...adult, which doesn't feel conducive to a primarily scholastic environment. This is directly from the WGI Rulebook:

"All programs, soundtracks, thematic and costuming choices must reflect the qualities that would be acceptable for performance at a scholastic venue or suitable for marketing to sponsors on a national level".

While I don't think this rule needs to get any more strict, I would appreciate it if the design teams behind some of these groups were a bit more conscious of the fact that they're performing for middle and high schoolers. I particularly have costuming in mind...please just do a dress rehearsal before you step out to perform in your new uniforms. All bodies are beautiful, but I have very often seen more body parts than I need to 😥 

This is getting long-winded so I'll wrap it up soon. I could go on and on about how I feel about Northwest Independent this year. Some of you have gotten to hear exactly how I feel! I don't want to sound harsh, but those performers were done a complete disservice. You could tell they had genuine skill! But genuine skill won't carry you very far when there is a lack of creative direction or leadership within the program. Offering a contract to performers with promises of "the best show yet" and a shot at finals and then failing to even produce a real program is tantamount to taking away a season from the members. I suppose that it's at least good that there are no age restrictions on IW currently, and the performers can find somewhere else to spin that will appreciate their talents. 

[LeanderMomma]

We could do a whole thread on costuming.

[philodemus]

I understand that you guys are trying to be politick in not calling out particular groups, but it would help me to know if I agree with you concerning costuming and theme appropriateness.

Honestly, nothing comes immediately to mind as pushing the bounds of good taste this season, but I did not watch guard as religiously as you folks and may have missed something.

[LeanderMomma]

Apr 24, 2023 5:14:56 GMT -6 philodemus said:

I understand that you guys are trying to be politick in not calling out particular groups, but it would help me to know if I agree with you concerning costuming and theme appropriateness.

Honestly, nothing comes immediately to mind as pushing the bounds of good taste this season, but I did not watch guard as religiously as you folks and may have missed something.

I didn’t honestly notice anything until I was watching some of the independent guards live in Ohio. I don’t think it shows on screen in the same way it does in person. I wish I could remember the guard who was pretty much wearing flesh colored unitards. You could definitely pretty much see all their parts! 😐 I don’t need to see that and I definitely don’t think these types of costumes add a darn thing to a performance other than distraction. 😂

Guard: <performs highly skilled show in costumes designed to showcase every part of the human anatomy rather than the technique of the performers>

Me: 😵🤔😳😬😩🫣

I mean is this actually necessary? Helpful somehow? Required? Encouraged? (And if so, by whom?)

Edit: this is where I would like genuine discussion on what the judges are looking for when it comes to this sort of thing. I understand that these full body suits definitely help showcase graceful movement and choreography. I just wonder at what point it crosses the line between tasteful and tacky.

[LeanderMomma]

I also have to throw in that there were PLENTY of unitard type costumes that were phenomenally well done so I’m not just picking on that style of costume. One great example was the Origins World guard. They looked stunning in theirs and you weren’t distracted by anything other than the beauty of the show and the overall incredible performance. Extremely well designed costumes I thought! (Shout out to Show Day Designs for their overall fantastic and flattering costumes!)

[philodemus]

As a quick thought... I wonder if appropriate unitard use vs inappropriate might come down to... well, to put things delicately... Proper undergarment selection?

Ahem.

[LeanderMomma]

Apr 24, 2023 9:44:23 GMT -6 philodemus said:

As a quick thought... I wonder if appropriate unitard use vs inappropriate might come down to... well, to put things delicately... Proper undergarment selection?

Ahem.

Yes absolutely!  But sometimes it’s simply the fact it is a skin toned or a see through costume, or it’s one that is missing important parts. 😂

[boahistorybuff]

So I think what you are asking is at what point do we cross a line as to what is appropriate or have we already crossed it. I suppose the same can be said for recent trends in pop culture. This topic has actually been brought up many times in the past. While I have not followed winter guard too closely, questions/debate of what is or is not appropriate in marching band and drum corps guard attire have gone on for decades.

Back in the 1970s (and possibly earlier), while most marching bands flag and rifle lines dressed more military, many high school and college bands had auxiliary members who did things like twirl batons, danced and/or used pom poms. They often wore skimpy attire that were not always deemed appropriate, especially at the high school level.

During the course of the 1980s, the military style guard attire was ditched, often times for tight fitting apparel. I remember at the 1988 Grand Nationals, the Cicero North Syracuse guard. First off, for most of their show their guard wore these hideous white and blue dresses (looked like something an elderly woman in the 19th century would wear). But for the ending of the show, during Stars and Stripes, the guard ditched those dresses and appeared in all white tight fitting leotards with stars on them. With the bright lighting in the Silverdome, they were very revealing, too much so for a lot of the parents. In 1989, Plymouth-Canton did a show Sweet Charity, from the musical. Fitting in the theme of the show, the guard had a few somewhat sexually suggestive moves through the course of the show, which again did not sit well with some parents. Now that stuff would be G rated compared to what some winter guards are doing today. That of course was not the sentiment in 1989.

DCI also had some moments when guard attire was thought to be a little inapropriate for younger audiences. In 1990, Dutch Boy's guard had some very skimpy outfits, especially their back side. For many years it was said that the camera men at the field level gave them more close up shots than any other guard in DCI history. The very short short skirts worn by the Phantom Regiment guard in 1996 was also viewed by some to be a bit too revealing.

It was not just the woman guard who some thought were dressing a little too suggestive. There were also similar concerns in the early 1990s when the Cavaliers guard introduced bare (or partially) chested attire.

So my point is that these concerns are nothing new. However, I do think there has to be a point in which the line is crossed. Has the marching arts crossed that point?

[philodemus]

The problem, I think, is that the line is not agreed upon, nor is it likely to be agreed upon.

Personally, I marched corps in the 1990s when clothing was, shall we say, minimal. Those 'short' dresses that Regiment wore in 1996 were without doubt the most clothes those girls had on all day, I assure you. As a consequence, I am just not bothered by bodies... like at, all. Having lived my life around conservatives I can look at a costume and understand, intellectually, that they aren't going to like it, but I don't feel offended.

In conversations like these there's often an air of "Of course..." As in, "Now, of course, we're all bothered by X, Y or Z..." but my point is actually, no, we aren't all bothered by it. Really.

So the question always becomes, whose standards should we apply?

I once watched two Guard Moms having a passionate disagreement about whether the kids should be allowed to rehearse in sports bras. One--the one in favor of covering up--asked, "What are we teaching our girls? Shouldn't we tell them to value their bodies more than this?" The other--the one against forcing them to cover up--replied "We're teaching them that their bodies are nothing to be ashamed of, that they aren't dirty or bad for having a female body." I don't think I have ever seen two people who were more talking past each each other, they were coming from such different starting assumptions that they simply couldn't comprehend the other's position. It was wild.

I think that's what this argument is like. Each side is "Of course"-ing the other, but they do not take the same things to be a matter of course.

That may have been a bit rambling... my apologies.

[marimba11]

I also find it strange that colorguard is basically all age. Percussion is not. I am no guard expert but Wayne Markworth is pretty good about instilling the educational part of the activity at the forefront of the percussion sector of WGI. I think as our world gets wider and wider young kids are exposed to more and more I can't help but think that the older members are "too good" for being in the same class as some much younger and potentially less experienced members. 

It is nice being with people the same age as you going through the same things. 

Sorry this was a large ramble 

[LeanderMomma]

There are definitely as many opinions as there are body types and that’s nothing new. I just get frustrated when I feel like a show is more about how much they can shock us rather than just letting it be about the talent of the young people performing.

Just my opinion of course. 😉

[bigblue2019]

I interpret the performing arts like eating at a fine dining restaurant.  
If someone ordered steak tar tar, a server would NEVER bring out a steak well done, and with packets of ketchup.  

Northwest Independent - My heart went out to the performers.  That was atrocious.  The performers in this instant were following the chef, and sadly served a steak well done, when it should've been steak tar tar.  

DC's Different Drummers - I applaud them for allowing people to perform regardless of ability.  Heck, if I were closer, and not involved so much, I'd love to spin one season just to experience going out on the floor.  

As far as different classes, performing in exhibition ect.  These groups pay the fees to perform even in Dayton.

The uniforms - For the most part, I applaud the directors who know the proper way to teach performers how to hide the man bits and girl bits.  I feel like drag queens should come in and teach the young men how to tuck.  That'll definitely do it...LOL  
As far as the aesthetic of the uniforms, directors have something in mind.  Designers as well.  I'll be the first to say, I don't always understand, which is why I ask questions to learn and understand.  While some shows may be "provocative" if you will, there's a reason.  After all, it is art!

All that being said, this was one heck of a barn burner year where it was a toss up (no pun intended). 

I cannot wait to see what 2024 has to offer!

[Scarlett]

Whaaaat!?   The Pride of Cincinnati is going inactive next year?  Nooooooooooo.  Love them.  

[cinnamonpromenade]

May 3, 2023 18:32:42 GMT -6 Scarlett said:

Whaaaat!?   The Pride of Cincinnati is going inactive next year?  Nooooooooooo.  Love them.  

They do this every couple years for financial reasons. They'll almost certainly be back in 2025.

(The last time this happened, most of the Pride staff and students went to Inspire. Not sure what happened to Inspire, but everyone seemed to make their way back to Pride.)

[philodemus]

I trust the folks at Pride to know what they're doing, but I do find it a bit odd. I mean, of all the marching arts units to fund, a winterguard is the least expensive. You need a floor, a set of silks... at world class level the performers buy their own rifles and sabers. Costuming, a U-Haul... hotels at a few shows, but not all.

Like, I'm sure it's not easy, but it seems quite budgetable. Add it up, divide by number of performers, and those are your dues... right? Am I missing something?

I must be missing something.

[ilikeguard]

May 2, 2023 23:53:06 GMT -6 bigblue2019 said:

The uniforms - For the most part, I applaud the directors who know the proper way to teach performers how to hide the man bits and girl bits.  I feel like drag queens should come in and teach the young men how to tuck.  That'll definitely do it...LOL  

I wonder sometimes why you don't see more overlap between drag and color guard. They're both fairly dance-based performing arts (and both have military roots!). Although I do know a few people who have done band and gone onto perform drag, so maybe there's more overlap than I think! I don't know that I've seen any big-time drag performers who are overly involved in guard, but I'm sure there are a few at the local level. I would imagine doing both would leave you with very little free time, lol.

In my PERSONAL opinion, I think costuming choices should be made to fit the cast you have, rather than forcing the cast to fit the costumes. There are beautiful costumes that aren't skin-tight unitards. I like unitards, sometimes, but I care more about the performer feeling confident and ready to perform. There's no reason to give a girl a costume that makes her feel insecure, and there's no reason to give a boy a costume that makes him feel like he isn't a part of the team (looking at the boys who are stuck in black t-shirts and black sweatpants while the girls are in sequins). A lack of confidence leads to a slack in performance.

[bandaid]

Latrice Royale is a Drag Queen that was on Rupaul's Drag Race and was in color guard. She use to teach but not sure if she still does. She uses some of the guard equipment in some of her shows.

 

May 4, 2023 12:29:51 GMT -6 ilikeguard said:

May 2, 2023 23:53:06 GMT -6 bigblue2019 said:

The uniforms - For the most part, I applaud the directors who know the proper way to teach performers how to hide the man bits and girl bits.  I feel like drag queens should come in and teach the young men how to tuck.  That'll definitely do it...LOL  

I wonder sometimes why you don't see more overlap between drag and color guard. They're both fairly dance-based performing arts (and both have military roots!). Although I do know a few people who have done band and gone onto perform drag, so maybe there's more overlap than I think! I don't know that I've seen any big-time drag performers who are overly involved in guard, but I'm sure there are a few at the local level. I would imagine doing both would leave you with very little free time, lol.

In my PERSONAL opinion, I think costuming choices should be made to fit the cast you have, rather than forcing the cast to fit the costumes. There are beautiful costumes that aren't skin-tight unitards. I like unitards, sometimes, but I care more about the performer feeling confident and ready to perform. There's no reason to give a girl a costume that makes her feel insecure, and there's no reason to give a boy a costume that makes him feel like he isn't a part of the team (looking at the boys who are stuck in black t-shirts and black sweatpants while the girls are in sequins). A lack of confidence leads to a slack in performance.

[mk72]

May 4, 2023 13:07:29 GMT -6 bandaid said:

Latrice Royale is a Drag Queen that was on Rupaul's Drag Race and was in color guard. She use to teach but not sure if she still does. She uses some of the guard equipment in some of her shows.

 



If I remember correctly, she marched w/ Blue Stars and Paramount!!

May 4, 2023 12:29:51 GMT -6 ilikeguard said:

I wonder sometimes why you don't see more overlap between drag and color guard. They're both fairly dance-based performing arts (and both have military roots!). Although I do know a few people who have done band and gone onto perform drag, so maybe there's more overlap than I think! I don't know that I've seen any big-time drag performers who are overly involved in guard, but I'm sure there are a few at the local level. I would imagine doing both would leave you with very little free time, lol.

In my PERSONAL opinion, I think costuming choices should be made to fit the cast you have, rather than forcing the cast to fit the costumes. There are beautiful costumes that aren't skin-tight unitards. I like unitards, sometimes, but I care more about the performer feeling confident and ready to perform. There's no reason to give a girl a costume that makes her feel insecure, and there's no reason to give a boy a costume that makes him feel like he isn't a part of the team (looking at the boys who are stuck in black t-shirts and black sweatpants while the girls are in sequins). A lack of confidence leads to a slack in performance.

[srv1084]

May 4, 2023 13:07:29 GMT -6 bandaid said:

Latrice Royale is a Drag Queen that was on Rupaul's Drag Race and was in color guard. She use to teach but not sure if she still does. She uses some of the guard equipment in some of her shows.

 

May 4, 2023 12:29:51 GMT -6 ilikeguard said:

I wonder sometimes why you don't see more overlap between drag and color guard. They're both fairly dance-based performing arts (and both have military roots!). Although I do know a few people who have done band and gone onto perform drag, so maybe there's more overlap than I think! I don't know that I've seen any big-time drag performers who are overly involved in guard, but I'm sure there are a few at the local level. I would imagine doing both would leave you with very little free time, lol.

In my PERSONAL opinion, I think costuming choices should be made to fit the cast you have, rather than forcing the cast to fit the costumes. There are beautiful costumes that aren't skin-tight unitards. I like unitards, sometimes, but I care more about the performer feeling confident and ready to perform. There's no reason to give a girl a costume that makes her feel insecure, and there's no reason to give a boy a costume that makes him feel like he isn't a part of the team (looking at the boys who are stuck in black t-shirts and black sweatpants while the girls are in sequins). A lack of confidence leads to a slack in performance.

Large and in charge. Chunky, yet funky! THE Latrice Royale!

She marched Magic of Orlando 91, and Blue Stars 92, Sundowners winter guard 93 and Alliance of Miami winter guard aging out in 94. She was assistant director of Alliance until 1999 and taught high school and independent groups up until she went on Drag Race in 2010, including Santaluces, Stoneman Douglas, and independent groups like Gainesville Independent.

Asia O'Hara taught guard for high schools in Texas, including Waxahachie, Coppell, and Southlake.
Alyssa Edwards attended WGI finals a few years ago, I think sometime between 2017-2019.
The Princess is a big drum corps fan and loves the Bluecoats.

I know there are current/very recent members as well who have participated in drag and ball culture. I believe a few on Paramount, which isn't a surprise as the ball scene is pretty popular in Atlanta.

[josephbandfan]

May 4, 2023 18:08:23 GMT -6 srv1084 said:

May 4, 2023 13:07:29 GMT -6 bandaid said:

Latrice Royale is a Drag Queen that was on Rupaul's Drag Race and was in color guard. She use to teach but not sure if she still does. She uses some of the guard equipment in some of her shows.

 

Large and in charge. Chunky, yet funky! THE Latrice Royale!

She marched Magic of Orlando 91, and Blue Stars 92, Sundowners winter guard 93 and Alliance of Miami winter guard aging out in 94. She was assistant director of Alliance until 1999 and taught high school and independent groups up until she went on Drag Race in 2010, including Santaluces, Stoneman Douglas, and independent groups like Gainesville Independent.

Asia O'Hara taught guard for high schools in Texas, including Waxahachie, Coppell, and Southlake.
Alyssa Edwards attended WGI finals a few years ago, I think sometime between 2017-2019.
The Princess is a big drum corps fan and loves the Bluecoats.

I know there are current/very recent members as well who have participated in drag and ball culture. I believe a few on Paramount, which isn't a surprise as the ball scene is pretty popular in Atlanta.

Wow, I knew Latrice was in guard but didn’t know she was that involved. And cool to learn about Asia and The Princess as well. I remember when Alyssa Edwards came to Keller in 2019 to teach the guard how to do their makeup for the season.

[ilikeguard]

May 4, 2023 18:08:23 GMT -6 srv1084 said:

May 4, 2023 13:07:29 GMT -6 bandaid said:

Latrice Royale is a Drag Queen that was on Rupaul's Drag Race and was in color guard. She use to teach but not sure if she still does. She uses some of the guard equipment in some of her shows.

 

Large and in charge. Chunky, yet funky! THE Latrice Royale!

She marched Magic of Orlando 91, and Blue Stars 92, Sundowners winter guard 93 and Alliance of Miami winter guard aging out in 94. She was assistant director of Alliance until 1999 and taught high school and independent groups up until she went on Drag Race in 2010, including Santaluces, Stoneman Douglas, and independent groups like Gainesville Independent.

Asia O'Hara taught guard for high schools in Texas, including Waxahachie, Coppell, and Southlake.
Alyssa Edwards attended WGI finals a few years ago, I think sometime between 2017-2019.
The Princess is a big drum corps fan and loves the Bluecoats.

I know there are current/very recent members as well who have participated in drag and ball culture. I believe a few on Paramount, which isn't a surprise as the ball scene is pretty popular in Atlanta.

Thank you so much!! I haven’t had a chance to get super invested in drag but I do think it’s a very very cool art form. I have way too many interests to keep up with all of the things I would like to!

[cinnamonpromenade]

May 4, 2023 11:09:46 GMT -6 philodemus said:

I trust the folks at Pride to know what they're doing, but I do find it a bit odd. I mean, of all the marching arts units to fund, a winterguard is the least expensive. You need a floor, a set of silks... at world class level the performers buy their own rifles and sabers. Costuming, a U-Haul... hotels at a few shows, but not all.

Like, I'm sure it's not easy, but it seems quite budgetable. Add it up, divide by number of performers, and those are your dues... right? Am I missing something?

I must be missing something.

You forgot about the staff.

I can't imagine it's cheap to have some of the biggest names in the activity on your payroll, both for their services and their flights....

[paddy]

May 5, 2023 12:07:52 GMT -6 cinnamonpromenade said:

May 4, 2023 11:09:46 GMT -6 philodemus said:

I trust the folks at Pride to know what they're doing, but I do find it a bit odd. I mean, of all the marching arts units to fund, a winterguard is the least expensive. You need a floor, a set of silks... at world class level the performers buy their own rifles and sabers. Costuming, a U-Haul... hotels at a few shows, but not all.

Like, I'm sure it's not easy, but it seems quite budgetable. Add it up, divide by number of performers, and those are your dues... right? Am I missing something?

I must be missing something.

You forgot about the staff.

I can't imagine it's cheap to have some of the biggest names in the activity on your payroll, both for their services and their flights....

Killer. I have interacted a fair bit with 5 people on that page and they are incredible

[philodemus]

May 5, 2023 12:07:52 GMT -6 cinnamonpromenade said:

May 4, 2023 11:09:46 GMT -6 philodemus said:

I trust the folks at Pride to know what they're doing, but I do find it a bit odd. I mean, of all the marching arts units to fund, a winterguard is the least expensive. You need a floor, a set of silks... at world class level the performers buy their own rifles and sabers. Costuming, a U-Haul... hotels at a few shows, but not all.

Like, I'm sure it's not easy, but it seems quite budgetable. Add it up, divide by number of performers, and those are your dues... right? Am I missing something?

I must be missing something.

You forgot about the staff.

I can't imagine it's cheap to have some of the biggest names in the activity on your payroll, both for their services and their flights....

Fair point!

But… I guess I still have a question. Like, maybe you can’t afford a dozen of the biggest names in the marching arts, but could you afford like, 4? I feel like you could still put out a pretty amazing product.

On the other hand, maybe it’s a case of, “If we can’t do it all out, we’ll wait till we can.” I can respect that.

I could see either perspective on it, I guess.

[bigblue2019]

May 5, 2023 14:19:03 GMT -6 philodemus said:

May 5, 2023 12:07:52 GMT -6 cinnamonpromenade said:

You forgot about the staff.

I can't imagine it's cheap to have some of the biggest names in the activity on your payroll, both for their services and their flights....

Fair point!

But… I guess I still have a question. Like, maybe you can’t afford a dozen of the biggest names in the marching arts, but could you afford like, 4? I feel like you could still put out a pretty amazing product.

On the other hand, maybe it’s a case of, “If we can’t do it all out, we’ll wait till we can.” I can respect that.

I could see either perspective on it, I guess.

So, you're right! There aren't many names to throw around. I will say what I appreciate in winter guard, that there's one specific designer, his shows are all different. But like in marching band, you can look at a guard and go "that's a Wes dress".
Training is also a thing. Like, there are choreographers /designers/trainers who can touch something and it turns to gold.
Some may disagree with me on this, an ensemble is as good as their director and their director is as good as the ensemble. This DOES NOT apply in all cases. But in some.

Some people think because they marched in Onyx World, they can walk into a high school program and BAM!!! Onyx, the high school version....🤣🤣🤣. If you throw the kitchen sink at the kids, they better be able to catch it!

You have to know the level your students can achieve. Create your own aesthetic! Your own style! Like someone said above, let your kids fit into the uniform don't force the fit on them!! Cause, guurrrrrrrllll, that ain't pretty!

FYI, I'm not implying this ever happened, but using it as an example!!

As far as Pride, I heard they were doing to focus on dance for a production next year. I take that with a grain of salt. You should as well.

There's so much I could say right now, but how many people know the story behind Pride of Cincinnati? Do you know they actually started as a drum corps? They did! That was back in the day.

I'll shut up now before I say anything else lol

[ilikeguard]

May 5, 2023 19:29:11 GMT -6 bigblue2019 said:

May 5, 2023 14:19:03 GMT -6 philodemus said:

Fair point!

But… I guess I still have a question. Like, maybe you can’t afford a dozen of the biggest names in the marching arts, but could you afford like, 4? I feel like you could still put out a pretty amazing product.

On the other hand, maybe it’s a case of, “If we can’t do it all out, we’ll wait till we can.” I can respect that.

I could see either perspective on it, I guess.

So, you're right! There aren't many names to throw around. I will say what I appreciate in winter guard, that there's one specific designer, his shows are all different. But like in marching band, you can look at a guard and go "that's a Wes dress".
Training is also a thing. Like, there are choreographers /designers/trainers who can touch something and it turns to gold.
Some may disagree with me on this, an ensemble is as good as their director and their director is as good as the ensemble. This DOES NOT apply in all cases. But in some.

Some people think because they marched in Onyx World, they can walk into a high school program and BAM!!! Onyx, the high school version....🤣🤣🤣. If you throw the kitchen sink at the kids, they better be able to catch it!

You have to know the level your students can achieve. Create your own aesthetic! Your own style! Like someone said above, let your kids fit into the uniform don't force the fit on them!! Cause, guurrrrrrrllll, that ain't pretty!

FYI, I'm not implying this ever happened, but using it as an example!!

As far as Pride, I heard they were doing to focus on dance for a production next year. I take that with a grain of salt. You should as well.

There's so much I could say right now, but how many people know the story behind Pride of Cincinnati? Do you know they actually started as a drum corps? They did! That was back in the day.

I'll shut up now before I say anything else lol

I can spot a Zac Barber winter guard show from a mile away, but I think that’s just because they all have the same sort of sparkle to them. They most certainly are not all the same!