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Post by MarchingBand4Life on Aug 15, 2023 13:23:08 GMT -6
As I was sitting at Lucas Oil for DCI semi finals, it made me think back to sitting there for BOA Grand Nats finals just 9 months ago.
Got me thinking.....
At what point in the semi finals roster for DCI World Class, would those corps been likely to make finals at a BOA Grand Nats? Obviously it depends greatly on the attendees at any given GN.
How about Open Class?
Let's discuss!
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Post by paddy on Aug 15, 2023 13:33:24 GMT -6
Any Texas band would win DCI in any given year.
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Post by jakeymam12 on Aug 15, 2023 20:48:08 GMT -6
What if The Battalion participated? I feel like they’d probably get finals, but I’m not so sure about how they’d place, Especially against the bands competing this year.
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Post by vidal28rdg on Aug 15, 2023 22:52:57 GMT -6
I would be honest and say, regardless of how scores would play out, it would be really hard for me to be as entertained or bought into what a lot of the Open Class corps are doing compared to what we’d have with the bands that make up the whole of Grand Nats Semis, the main Texas regionals, the top 30 of every super regional. I’d be looking forward to seeing and hearing the bands rather than most of the corps🤷♂️
Haven’t heard much open class live, but I find myself a bit perplexed in not being entertained, more importantly, invested by what some WC corps right outside of the top 12 have out there for their shows, whereas for pretty much all the HS contests I go to, I don’t wanna leave. That’s what I base my stance off of👀
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Aug 15, 2023 23:40:01 GMT -6
I think the very best BOA bands would score perhaps as high as 80 in DCI.
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Post by philodemus on Aug 16, 2023 4:14:39 GMT -6
I'm sure we all know this, but it really is apples and oranges... in a few different ways, maybe most obviously in how they are judged with DCI having a much greater emphasis on scoring achievement in each section. The whole, "Cavies drums are the best here even though the rest of the corps is a bit 'meh' and can get recognized for that," doesn't happen on BOA sheets.
But another key difference that I was thinking about while watching Finals is sheer size, and how that determines the way you generate effect. I don't think the Cartwright 'Total Effect' approach to design would work in a DCI setting, simply because there aren't enough humans on the field. Corps don't tend to go in for 'simple but effective' and instead tend to layer more demand on each individual with the effect being 'wow, each of these kids is amazing.'
This, I think, also explains why lower level World Class corps are underwhelming. If the design ethos is built around the amazing excellence of the individual students, that only works if you've recruited absolutely amazing students. Pretty good, or 'not the most talented, but hard working' won't cut it.
That sounded mean, but all I mean is, the design ethos that works for BD or Boston or Bloo struggles to work without everyone being that elite caliber of kid. The Cartwright Method can work with just a whole ton of good kids ...and a handful of amazing individuals.
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Aug 16, 2023 10:53:20 GMT -6
... But another key difference that I was thinking about while watching Finals is sheer size, and how that determines the way you generate effect. I don't think the Cartwright 'Total Effect' approach to design would work in a DCI setting, simply because there aren't enough humans on the field. ... When someone on another site posted video of Broken Arrow's show in 2015 and asked, "Why does this high school band's peformance have more G.E. than most drum corps' shows?" my answer then likewise was that much of the effect was generated through clever arrangement of large number of people, although you've said it more eloquently here. I particularly appreciate your point about how lower-ranked corps struggle when they try and copy the top groups. That's what I was trying to get at when I argued last week for the value of Jersey Surf's show. They set their sights fairly low but largely achieved what they aimed at. |
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Aug 16, 2023 17:03:42 GMT -6
That sounded mean, but all I mean is, the design ethos that works for BD or Boston or Bloo struggles to work without everyone being that elite caliber of kid. The Cartwright Method can work with just a whole ton of good kids ...and a handful of amazing individuals. Well said!! Case in point: Phantom 2017's "Phantasm" show. Despite everyone RUNNING the entire time, the show felt empty with only 150 kids on the field. Even with all his other tropes—stock classical music, lots of pods in the drill, colorguard girls with long hair and short shorts, ethereal voiceovers—Cartwright's shows NEED the drama of 275 people on the field. (Or at least the budget for LOTS of props....) |
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Aug 16, 2023 17:26:13 GMT -6
As I was sitting at Lucas Oil for DCI semi finals, it made me think back to sitting there for BOA Grand Nats finals just 9 months ago. Got me thinking..... At what point in the semi finals roster for DCI World Class, would those corps been likely to make finals at a BOA Grand Nats? Obviously it depends greatly on the attendees at any given GN. How about Open Class? Let's discuss! It's tricky to make this comparison given that most drum corps shows are 2-5 minutes longer than most BOA shows... But I think this year's top 13 world class performances would make BOA finals any given year. Below that, there are enough question marks in design and/or execution that would probably keep these groups out of finals. I think The Academy would be the lowest placing WC group to make semis. I could see Spartans placing 16th-25th. Gold in the 20s, or potentially an upset prelimination. Southwind vying for a medal in AA. |
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Post by ilikeguard on Aug 18, 2023 12:22:16 GMT -6
That sounded mean, but all I mean is, the design ethos that works for BD or Boston or Bloo struggles to work without everyone being that elite caliber of kid. The Cartwright Method can work with just a whole ton of good kids ...and a handful of amazing individuals. Well said!! Case in point: Phantom 2017's "Phantasm" show. Despite everyone RUNNING the entire time, the show felt empty with only 150 kids on the field. Even with all his other tropes—stock classical music, lots of pods in the drill, colorguard girls with long hair and short shorts, ethereal voiceovers—Cartwright's shows NEED the drama of 275 people on the field. (Or at least the budget for LOTS of props....) Love everything in this post. Exactly the same things I’ve been thinking while reflecting on this summer. I’m personally more interested in marching band style design, but the same effect just isn’t possible with such a small group that is also much more bound by community tradition and activity standards than small marching bands would be. Thinking about it, I’m glad that drum corps isn’t just major league marching band. The differences make each seasonal activity interesting! |
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