charredbrown
Senior Member
Morton Alum, currently teaching band at Lutheran North High School in MI
Posts: 87
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Post by charredbrown on Nov 1, 2023 10:23:52 GMT -6
A thought as been steeping in my brain the last few weeks, particularly with all of the Super Regionals happening and Grand Nats on the horizon. It all started with this thought: "Man, band was really good, but their show wasn't a 'winning show.'" This one idea sent me on a spiral thinking about the importance of show design and its influence throughout the season.
All three elements for which a band is judged involve design at some level. GE is the most obvious, where the visual design, music choices, costuming, flags, drill design, props, guard work, drum major charisma, and everything else come together and are judged on how well they all heighten the mood of the show. GE, it could be argued, is entirely focused on design, an aspect of marching that is almost always out of the kids' hands. Music and Visual are a bit more balanced, judging both the design of their respective elements as well as the students' execution of them.
Not exactly what I'm going for with this, but here are some questions to ponder:
- What do you think matters more: Design or Execution?
- Why the emphasis on GE - a category nearly completely out of the marcher's hands - in the scoring sheets? Who is being judged: the band or the director/designer?
- Could there ever be a way to implement a "starting score" system (like they have in gymnastics, or like weighted grades) where your highest achievable score is based on the difficulty of your design? (theoretically this would promote bigger bands like Avon or Hebron to design harder shows, but would also reward bands who march very clean, simpler shows)
- What aspects does a show need to have for it to be "Eagle-Worthy" in your eyes? What aspects of a show immediately disqualifies it from being "Eagle-Worthy?"
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Post by 18Saxes on Nov 1, 2023 10:39:42 GMT -6
If you haven’t already, I would recommend checking out the Adjudication Handbook on the Music For All website. It breaks down caption and sub-caption with explanations of how they are judged, I personally believe it’s quite interesting.
I’d recommend anyone who is unsure about what BOA judges look for when judging to give it a read.
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charredbrown
Senior Member
Morton Alum, currently teaching band at Lutheran North High School in MI
Posts: 87
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Post by charredbrown on Nov 1, 2023 10:46:22 GMT -6
If you haven’t already, I would recommend checking out the Adjudication Handbook on the Music For All website. It breaks down caption and sub-caption with explanations of how they are judged, I personally believe it’s quite interesting. I’d recommend anyone who is unsure about what BOA judges look for when judging to give it a read. Seconded on that recommendation. And yeah, I've given the handbook a readthrough or two. This thread is more about the idea of so much of that rubric - GE specifically - leaning towards judging design over execution and whether that's right or not. Not exactly sure where I stand on the debate, but I love me some good, cordial discourse! |
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Post by TXHillCountryBands on Nov 1, 2023 11:10:52 GMT -6
If you haven’t already, I would recommend checking out the Adjudication Handbook on the Music For All website. It breaks down caption and sub-caption with explanations of how they are judged, I personally believe it’s quite interesting. I’d recommend anyone who is unsure about what BOA judges look for when judging to give it a read. Seconded on that recommendation. And yeah, I've given the handbook a readthrough or two. This thread is more about the idea of so much of that rubric - GE specifically - leaning towards judging design over execution and whether that's right or not. Not exactly sure where I stand on the debate, but I love me some good, cordial discourse! I have been very tenacious and vocal about how BOA over weighs and rewards design (designer) and visual over music & visual execution. So much so that I have found myself in Forum “time out” a few times now 😎 so I will refrain but this topic is fascinating. Although this is not always true, it seems that the region you grew up or live in usually does affect the camp that you decide to defend imo. I have however come up with a compromise. New BOA breakdown. 30 Music, 30 Visual and 40 Design! Your welcome 👌😂 |
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Post by twhsalumniparent on Nov 1, 2023 11:16:32 GMT -6
In order to get a high GE score you must, yes, have a well designed show, but you must also have it performed effectively. So I disagree that it is all about design. Design likely sets the ceiling on what the GE score can be, but without an effective performance the group will not reach that score.
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Post by Allohak on Nov 1, 2023 11:29:32 GMT -6
In order to get a high GE score you must, yes, have a well designed show, but you must also have it performed effectively. So I disagree that it is all about design. Design likely sets the ceiling on what the GE score can be, but without an effective performance the group will not reach that score. 1,000 times this |
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Post by yayband914 on Nov 1, 2023 12:13:10 GMT -6
“Excellence is the first and purest effect.”
Excellence IS an effect. Effect and performance have always gone hand in hand.
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Post by hewhowaits on Nov 1, 2023 12:43:09 GMT -6
Seconded on that recommendation. And yeah, I've given the handbook a readthrough or two. This thread is more about the idea of so much of that rubric - GE specifically - leaning towards judging design over execution and whether that's right or not. Not exactly sure where I stand on the debate, but I love me some good, cordial discourse! I have been very tenacious and vocal about how BOA over weighs and rewards design (designer) and visual over music & visual execution. So much so that I have found myself in Forum “time out” a few times now 😎 so I will refrain but this topic is fascinating. Although this is not always true, it seems that the region you grew up or live in usually does affect the camp that you decide to defend imo. I have however come up with a compromise. New BOA breakdown. 30 Music, 30 Visual and 40 Design! Your welcome 👌😂 Oh, that desire has been expressed MANY times by MANY people. More emphasis on the accomplishment of the students is always a good thing. |
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Nov 1, 2023 13:37:43 GMT -6
Kind of a tangent, but during the DCI season, I heard someone propose the dichotomy of "impressive" vs "entertaining" show designs. As I've watched shows this fall, I've found that BOA usually rewards "impressive" shows more than they reward "entertaining" shows.
Which begs the question: how effective can a show really be if it's only impressive and not very entertaining?
For example, when a group stops all momentum in their musical pacing to present some overwrought sixteenth note runs, is that actually effective? Can that additional content for their music score feel too obligatory to be credited in their GE score?
And how do we credit risk-taking, especially if the performance execution is slightly dirtier? I'm not talking about shows that are merely demanding: I'm talking about demand with intention; demand with a point of view that inherently excites and compels the audience. Can we reward students if they're clearly going for it, even if they're a little dirty? If the energy is there, can that be credited more highly than, say, a Wes Cartwright show that's executed flawlessly but sterile in its concept?
If performance art is about expression... how do we score a group with impressive demand but no real message to express, nothing memorable to communicate?
Of course, this all begs the questions of what qualifies as "entertaining," and whose tastes are the ones defining that? It also puts the onus almost entirely on the adults to design a show that's inherently moving, and to teach their students how to express said adults' ideas. In many cases, the best educators are not necessarily the best designers.
TL;DR — when it comes to GE... what are we rewarding... and are we rewarding the right things?
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Post by ohbandfan on Nov 1, 2023 16:18:09 GMT -6
I always thought of it as how well the emotion or design of a show is conveyed through the performers. Like moment X is supposed to make you feel Y. How well did that band make that emotion come across? I think that is what is being rewarded in the GE caption. Arguably, it’s the most subjective of the captions to me because different people feel different things at any given time.
Simplified: I think what gets rewarded is how well the students perform what they’re given
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