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Post by oboe12 on Nov 18, 2019 23:02:19 GMT -6
WE'RE HERE! So it's time. Let's discuss. What are the best things about this decade to you? Here are a few superlatives I would like for everyone to try to finish (it will be hard!) but give it a shot. Best GN champion: Best GN 2nd place: Best GN 3rd place: Best GN 4th place: Best GN 5th place: Best GN 6th place: Best GN 7th place: Best GN 8th place: Best GN 9th place: Best GN 10th place: Best GN 11th place: Best GN 12th place: Best Music: Best Visual: Best General Effect: Most memorable moment: Best woodwinds: Best brass: Best percussion: Best guard: Best Class A champion: Best Atlanta champion: Best St. Louis champion: Best San Antonio champion: Best surprise: Best GN 13th place ( ): Best show to not attend Grand Nationals: and whatever else you can think of! Let's give this a try! Especially try the first twelve and make your own power Grand Nats!
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Post by sethb811 on Nov 19, 2019 7:54:27 GMT -6
Best GN champion: Avon 2010 Best GN 2nd place: Avon 2019/BA 2014 Best GN 3rd place: Hebron 2015 Best GN 4th place: Tarpon 2010 Best GN 5th place: Marian 2011/Leander 2019 Best GN 6th place: CTJ 2019 Best GN 7th place: Wando 2014 Best GN 8th place: The Woodlands 2019 Best GN 9th place: CTJ 2016 Best GN 10th place: Union 2017 Best GN 11th place: Homestead 2016 Best GN 12th place: Ayala 2019 Best GN 13th place (in Finals): Dobyns-Bennett 2016 Best Music: Hebron 2015 Best Visual: Carmel 2017 Best General Effect: Avon 2010 Most memorable moment: 2016 ties Best woodwinds: Hebron 2015 Best brass: Hebron 2015 Best percussion: Avon 2010 Best guard: Avon 2019 Best Class A champion: Bourbon 2010 Best Atlanta champion: Tarpon 2015 Best St. Louis champion: BA 2016 Best San Antonio champion: Flower Mound 2016 Best surprise: 13 finalists Best GN 13th place not in Finals ( ): Homestead 2017 Best show to not attend Grand Nationals: Flower Mound 2015
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jun 29, 2021 9:34:12 GMT -6
I was just trying to find the right thread to pose a question I had and this probably isn’t it, but oh well. Bear with me.
What I was wondering was, how did it come about “back in the day” for the BOA announcer (or any competition for that matter) to ask, “Drum Major, is your band ready?” And what was the point to it? And when did bands just start completely disregarding it like they do now? Do the announcers even say it anymore? Perhaps UIL still does?
Just always have been curious about this!
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Post by Samuel Culper on Jun 29, 2021 16:01:22 GMT -6
I was just trying to find the right thread to pose a question I had and this probably isn’t it, but oh well. Bear with me. What I was wondering was, how did it come about “back in the day” for the BOA announcer (or any competition for that matter) to ask, “Drum Major, is your band ready?” And what was the point to it? And when did bands just start completely disregarding it like they do now? Do the announcers even say it anymore? Perhaps UIL still does? Just always have been curious about this! It's still part of the UIL script.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jun 29, 2021 21:06:11 GMT -6
I was just trying to find the right thread to pose a question I had and this probably isn’t it, but oh well. Bear with me. What I was wondering was, how did it come about “back in the day” for the BOA announcer (or any competition for that matter) to ask, “Drum Major, is your band ready?” And what was the point to it? And when did bands just start completely disregarding it like they do now? Do the announcers even say it anymore? Perhaps UIL still does? Just always have been curious about this! It's still part of the UIL script. yeah and I love how the bands just play right over the announcer. 🤣 It used to really bother me at first! Like, isn’t that rude of the band? But I got over it. Still funny tho.
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Post by marimba11 on Jun 30, 2021 12:13:16 GMT -6
Best GN champion: Avon 2010 Best GN 2nd place: Avon 2019/BA 2014 Best GN 3rd place: Hebron 2015 Best GN 4th place: Tarpon 2010 Best GN 5th place: Marian 2011/Leander 2019 Best GN 6th place: CTJ 2019 Best GN 7th place: Wando 2014 Best GN 8th place: The Woodlands 2019 Best GN 9th place: CTJ 2016 Best GN 10th place: Union 2017 Best GN 11th place: Homestead 2016 Best GN 12th place: Ayala 2019 Best GN 13th place (in Finals): Dobyns-Bennett 2016 Best Music: Hebron 2015 Best Visual: Carmel 2017 Best General Effect: Avon 2010 Most memorable moment: 2016 ties Best woodwinds: Hebron 2015 Best brass: Hebron 2015 Best percussion: Avon 2010 Best guard: Avon 2019 Best Class A champion: Bourbon 2010 Best Atlanta champion: Tarpon 2015 Best St. Louis champion: BA 2016 Best San Antonio champion: Flower Mound 2016 Best surprise: 13 finalists Best GN 13th place not in Finals ( ): Homestead 2017 Best show to not attend Grand Nationals: Flower Mound 2015 What about Carmel 2017 was “best visual”? Just curious. I probably would have chosen Mason 2016 just based on the insane drill and insane level of achievement
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Post by principalagent on Jun 30, 2021 18:00:07 GMT -6
Mason 2016 is easily their best visual effort yet and one of the strongest of the last half-decade, but Carmel 2017 is a timeless masterwork top to bottom. It's Michael Gaines just having a ton of fun and showing off, the book matched the music package, the kids executed tons of different visual elements at a variety of velocities and handled various tempo and key changes at an extremely high level. It's probably the best visual performance and design combination since early 2000s Lawrence Central.
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Post by boahistorybuff on Jun 30, 2021 18:34:59 GMT -6
Well I thought I would try to not have any ties. I did not succeed. An awful lot of good bands this decade. Best GN champion: Avon 2010/Carmel 2017/Vandegrift 2019 Best GN 2nd place: BA 2014/Avon 2019 Best GN 3rd place: Hebron 2015/Blue Springs 2018 Best GN 4th place: Tarpon 2010/BA 2018 Best GN 5th place: Marian 2011/Leander 2019 Best GN 6th place: CTJ 2019 Best GN 7th place: Harrison 2013/William Mason 2019 Best GN 8th place: The Woodlands 2019 Best GN 9th place: CTJ 2016/Jenks 2018 Best GN 10th place: Union 2017 Best GN 11th place: Cedar Ridge 2013/Prosper 2018 Best GN 12th place: Ayala 2019 Best Music: Hebron 2015/Vandegrift 2019/Hebron 2019 Best Visual: Avon 2016/Avon 2019 Best General Effect: Overall - Carmel 2017; for Music - Hebron 2015/Vandegrift 2019; for visual - Avon 2010/Carmel 2017/Avon 2019 Most memorable moment: 2016 and the tie at the top Best woodwinds: Tarpon 2014/William Mason 2016 Best brass: Hebron 2015/Vandegrift 2019 Best percussion: Avon 2010/Vandegrift 2019 Best guard: Overall - Avon 2010; for flags - BA 2014; for rifles/sabers - Avon 2010/Tarpon 2014 Best Class A champion: Bourbon 2010/Beechwood 2011 Best Atlanta champion: Tarpon 2015 Best St. Louis champion: BA 2016 Best San Antonio champion: Flower Mound 2016/Reagan 2019 Best surprise: 2016 and 13 bands in finals Best GN 13th place Homestead 2017 ( ): Best show to not attend Grand Nationals: Flower Mound 2016/Reagan 2019 My additions: Best Drum Major: Dobbyns-Bennett 2016 Best AA Band (other than Marian and Tarpon): North Hardin 2017/North Hardin 2019 Best AAA Band: Tarpon 2010/Leander 2019 Best Display of Sportsmanship: 2014 Finals Award Ceremony, BA drum majors way of congratulating Tarpon DM Best Vocal Solo: Cedar Ridge 2013/Castle 2016/Blue Springs 2018 Best Instrumental solo(s): Hebron 2015/Vandegrift 2019/CTJ 2019 Best Use of Stringed Instruments: Carmel 2018 Best Use of Props: Tarpon 2010/Tarpon 2014/BA 2017 Best Modernization of an 'Ol School Theme': BA 2010 Best Love Story: BA 2011 Best Religious Theme: Marian 2011 Most Emotional Show: Bell 2010 Most Humorous Show: William Mason 2013 Most Patriotic Show: BA 2018 Best Show That No One Understood: BA 2014 Most Improved Band From Start to End of the Decade: Vandegrift Biggest Comeback Band of the Decade: Reagan Biggest End of An Era Moment: Marian Not Making Finals in 2018 After 34 Straight Appearances So Close But no Cigar Bands: Lake Central and Franklin Best Group of Grand National Finalists: 2019
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jun 30, 2021 20:57:21 GMT -6
I like that list Buff.
You only forgot one category. Best 3A band. 🤪
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Post by TXHillCountryBands on Jun 30, 2021 21:38:50 GMT -6
Buff is pretty spot on:
I would definitely add Vista Ridge 2019 to best brass and CTJ 2017 for best show to not attend GN’s! I personally thought Carmel 2018 was visually stronger than 2017 but I could be swayed either way.
How is it possible that The Woodlands 2013 didn’t make it too any categories on this list? 🤔
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Post by boahistorybuff on Jul 1, 2021 8:08:49 GMT -6
I like that list Buff. You only forgot one category. Best 3A band. 🤪 You're right I did. I added it to my post. Of course I picked 2019 Leander and 2010 Tarpon. Tarpon was in Class AAA in 2010. Honorary mentions to Leander 2016, Cedar Park 2016 and Harrison 2013.
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Post by boahistorybuff on Jul 1, 2021 8:23:33 GMT -6
Buff is pretty spot on: I would definitely add Vista Ridge 2019 to best brass and CTJ 2017 for best show to not attend GN’s! I personally thought Carmel 2018 was visually stronger than 2017 but I could be swayed either way. How is it possible that The Woodlands 2013 didn’t make it too any categories on this list? 🤔 Yes I stuck with Grand National Finalist bands for best brass, which is why I did not pick Vista Ridge. CTJ 2017 certainly crossed my mind. I just thought Flower Mound 2016 and Reagan 2019 were a bit better. I thought about The Woodlands 2013 for brass and percussion. The selections I picked were just so insanely good. Texas has so many bands that are just awesome with brass and percussion (yes I know they also have fantastic woodwinds too). I think my pick of Carmel 2017 over Carmel 2018 was more personal preference than anything. I can certainly see some picking 2018 over 2017. As much as I thought the Viking ship was cool (and will probably go down in history as one of the most unique/impressive/ambitious props in GN history from a band not named Tarpon Springs), it distracted me a bit from the overall visual design of the band. Probably more because of my somewhat 'ol school' mentality. I also tried to select some different picks from Seth, but that was pretty hard. He was pretty spot on with his picks.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jul 1, 2021 8:23:57 GMT -6
I like that list Buff. You only forgot one category. Best 3A band. 🤪 You're right I did. I added it to my post. Of course I picked 2019 Leander and 2010 Tarpon. Tarpon was in Class AAA in 2010. I didn’t realize Tarpon Springs was 3A back then. That 2010 show was INSANE!
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Post by TXHillCountryBands on Jul 1, 2021 10:43:00 GMT -6
Buff is pretty spot on: I would definitely add Vista Ridge 2019 to best brass and CTJ 2017 for best show to not attend GN’s! I personally thought Carmel 2018 was visually stronger than 2017 but I could be swayed either way. How is it possible that The Woodlands 2013 didn’t make it too any categories on this list? Yes I stuck with Grand National Finalist bands for best brass, which is why I did not pick Vista Ridge. CTJ 2017 certainly crossed my mind. I just thought Flower Mound 2016 and Reagan 2019 were a bit better. I thought about The Woodlands 2013 for brass and percussion. The selections I picked were just so insanely good. Texas has so many bands that are just awesome with brass and percussion (yes I know they also have fantastic woodwinds too). I think my pick of Carmel 2017 over Carmel 2018 was more personal preference than anything. I can certainly see some picking 2018 over 2017. As much as I thought the Viking ship was cool (and will probably go down in history as one of the most unique/impressive/ambitious props in GN history from a band not named Tarpon Springs), it distracted me a bit from the overall visual design of the band. Probably more because of my somewhat 'ol school' mentality. I also tried to select some different picks from Seth, but that was pretty hard. He was pretty spot on with his picks. Buff before I respond I want the forum to know that I am at work typing this response with a smile and no malice. Now, we all know that most of these list come with a subjective predisposed regional bias so I’ll try to play nice in the BOA sand box. Now, facts that should be considered thought ; notable Texas, California, Florida, Oklahoma programs do not have the privilege to attended GN nationals yearly so there’s that. Also, I’m not shy about being critical of BOA’s judging criteria in regards to musicianship and execution but I realize I’m in the minority on this forum! Sethb811’s list makes absolute solid arguments if marching band only lived in the BOA world but there are other circuits to consider. I could name a few but UIL is usually the wrench. Its been argued that Hebron had a bad run at San Antonio super but Vista did not in terms of music-brass and woodwind execution (I do Acknowledge that the show lacked Visual in terms of BOA metrics). Now my subjective opinion: I have personally seen Vista Ridge out play Vandy in head to head UIL battles since they started competing at Area H. BOA forum scholars are sleeping on Vista ridge imo but trust me when I say that this program is Top in Texas! Those musicians are a godly group and they have held year after year of recent. Marcus had a similar run in UIL years back (like Avon in BOA) but Vista’s trajectory will match or surpass IMO. Obviously I could come up with a competing subjective list and deviate from the BoA heavy visual standards we usually see on this forum but my wife says I need to play nice here.(she is a member). If I don’t behave she will cut off my Hornrank Forum privileges. 🔨 PS. I still hold that Carmel 2018 over 2017 despite the said distraction. Not enough Broken Arrow or Tarpon on these 2010’s lists!!! Blue Springs 2018 visually WOW. Avon 2010 performance EPIC but over Woodlands 2013 brass and woodwinds should be a crime. I could unfathomably go on and on but IMO Texas elites musicianship execution in 2010’s is overall bar none! I’ll stop rant and name dropping. I know why CTJ 2017 is/was under appreciated in the MFA and Hornrank forum world but trust me that the Avon kids and parents that sat through the show during prelims understood what they were seeing and hearing! One of the decades Top performances!: .
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Post by boahistorybuff on Jul 1, 2021 13:38:01 GMT -6
TXHillCountryBands - you make valid points. It's all good. Part of my selections were of course based off my memory. At my age I seem to remember performances in the 1990s more easily than some of the ones this past decade. I also have simply watched repeats of Grand National finals more than the San Antonio super regionals, so that is what sticks in my memory. Great thing about the forums is that we can debate these things and refresh each others memories. CTJ 2017 and The Woodlands 2013 will always be in my list of top 25 BOA performances of the 2010s. And yes Vista Ridge has been doing amazing stuff. I love them and I would not be surprised that if they do indeed attend GN this year they could win the GN title. For those of us outside of Texas, we are not as familiar with the judging system in UIL. Good to have you Texans on the forums to help explain it. My only issue with Texas is that there are so many amazing Texas bands right now that I find it difficult to keep track of them all, not to mention being able to remember all of those insanely good performances in San Antonio year after year. It was easier 30 years ago when the competitive field was not so insanely deep. So if you feel we are overlooking a great Texas band's performance, by all means point it out.
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Post by TXHillCountryBands on Jul 1, 2021 14:31:13 GMT -6
Thank you for your opinion as I only have the highest regards for your posts boahistorybuff. My MO on this forum is or never was to beat down BOA and the wonderful innovations that this circuit has opened for those programs we have come to love but rather to offer a differing perspective. The 856 members of this forum are hardly the overall opinions of the marching arts as a whole. Absolutizing a BOA Midwesterner lens is a partial story to the marching arts imo and unbalanced. So thanks for the shot out. I am not too privy to those BOA shows of Yester year but I do remember the internal debates that individual state educators have had before adopting BOA adjudication papers. Many members on MFA and Hornrank have forgotten or are just unaware. Years ago I was a music performance major at a north Texas university (French Horn) but I decided to pursuit a degree in Marketing late in my career. Tons of my colleagues went on to become support staff and heads of programs throughout the country but many landed in Kentucky. To the best of my knowledge seems that the primary debate to adopt BOA type sheets was always the hopes of visual supremacy and yet concerns that programs would forgo strong music aptitude to those of heavy visual. Kentucky has the biggest sounding smallest bands in the country imo. Yes many were concerned that Kentucky would fall In terms of musical acumen, prowess and execution just as Avon and most of Indiana did in the 2000’s to the 2010’s. Now, I am not preaching that UIL has it all figured out and yes I am somewhat critical of the sheets but I thank God that they haven’t budged much YTD. The ghost judging and recent sub captions we are about to see in 2021 are a step in the right direction. These adds are a breath of fresh air IMO and will bear much fruit in the future. All that being said I hope that UIL never strays from the high music execution standards that has set Texas apart form the rest of the country. Visual Innovation is welcomed but not at the expense of musicianship aptitude. That is why the select Texas Elites have outshined the country in the 2010’s IMO. I’m just ready for Texas to produce and introduce more programs to the country other than just the 25ish names that we have come to know. Optimism and fingers crossed for the 2020’s.
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Post by boahistorybuff on Jul 1, 2021 15:02:57 GMT -6
Given the level of musicianship by the Texas bands exhibited at both Grand Nats and San Antonio in 2019 (not to mention the last several years), you have to admit that UIL has done something right.
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Post by marimba11 on Jul 1, 2021 23:48:00 GMT -6
I will maintain that while The Woodlands band in 2013 was fantastic and every bit deserving of the championship, this is the only year of the decade where another band (which did not attend) could have beaten them: BA’s Utopia. I have never seen a color guard like that and probably never will again. I also think the simple gifts hit rivals Avon’s closer hit in 2010 (which is apparently the loudest moment of a BOA band, up for debate).
And yes this is the only year. I still see Carmel winning 2012 even of Marcus went, I still see Carmel winning in 2016 if Flower Mound went, I even see Vandegrift still beating Reagan.
But I don’t think anything could have stopped Utopia. With 3 more weeks to clean it would have been a spectacle.
My all time favorite show of the decade: Wild Blue Orchid. I know, lots recycled moments here… but shostakovich is my favorite composer. Festive Overture is just a great song on the field and the emotional connection those members had to Symphony no. 5 that finals night was something surreal.
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Post by ohioguy2 on Jul 2, 2021 8:50:33 GMT -6
Might be fun for experts on each state to do a “Best of” for each state for the decade. I am sure we have plenty of people that can do Texas and Indiana for example. I am sure NE Brigand can give us a detailed Ohio analysis since I am pretty sure he has seen every OMEA performance given this decade live.
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Post by marimba11 on Jul 2, 2021 10:15:08 GMT -6
Might be fun for experts on each state to do a “Best of” for each state for the decade. I am sure we have plenty of people that can do Texas and Indiana for example. I am sure NE Brigand can give us a detailed Ohio analysis since I am pretty sure he has seen every OMEA performance given this decade live. For SC thats easy: Wando 2018. Definitely best overall show from all angles. I would say Wando’s madea’s dance of vengeance rendition by state finals in 2019 was perhaps the cleanest movement ever performed in SC.
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Post by ohioguy2 on Jul 2, 2021 11:34:02 GMT -6
Might be fun for experts on each state to do a “Best of” for each state for the decade. I am sure we have plenty of people that can do Texas and Indiana for example. I am sure NE Brigand can give us a detailed Ohio analysis since I am pretty sure he has seen every OMEA performance given this decade live. For SC thats easy: Wando 2018. Definitely best overall show from all angles. I would say Wando’s madea’s dance of vengeance rendition by state finals in 2019 was perhaps the cleanest movement ever performed in SC. Are there any other categories you’d have an opinion on? How about best shows from the other BOA classes (of whatever SC division system is used)?
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Post by marimba11 on Jul 2, 2021 12:38:44 GMT -6
For SC thats easy: Wando 2018. Definitely best overall show from all angles. I would say Wando’s madea’s dance of vengeance rendition by state finals in 2019 was perhaps the cleanest movement ever performed in SC. Are there any other categories you’d have an opinion on? How about best shows from the other BOA classes (of whatever SC division system is used)? Yes most certainly. Although all things considered many things have stayed the same in SC in the past decade - despite a massive influx of population - growing bands in the metropolitan areas such as Charleston, Greenville/ Spartanburg, and Charlotte. Many industries have contributed to this population increase such as BMW in Greenville, tech companies in Charlotte, and Volvo/ Boeing in Charleston as a few examples. Although we all know that even if numbers increase, that doesn't always translate to quality and by in large most high schools in SC are kept under 2000 student level (although that is starting to change). The rural SC schools have also much remained at similar levels of enrollment - it is the larger population centers that have grown. We are starting to see some new comers like Mauldin, Easley, Summerville - potential there. As we all know Wando has kept their monopoly on being the best with their numbers and general wealth in Mt. Pleasant. Although unless they start to radically entering Awendaw, I'd say their growth will slow. Wando is also a school with many other activities for students to choose along with many recreational activities available to students with regard to the proximity to Isle of Palms and Sullivans Island. The addition of Bobby Lambert to the Wando seems to have gone on with great success - I'd say he has surpassed Scott Rush (although Rush did most of the heavy lifting) Lambert has made things better in terms of production value and Michael Gray is still producing great shows. We'll see how that continues with Lucy Beckham and how much visibility that program will have in Bands of America. But rightly so Wando is the standard of the state and many bands do follow their more symphonic style especially in terms of sound production: Fort Mill, Easley, Lexington, among others. Many also take the traditional sound approach like Byrnes, Clover, Dorman, River Bluff, the Rock Hill bands. Nation Ford is unique with their Crown involvement. Where I am taking this is that if I were to make a list of best shows or moments, Wando would easily occupy 80% of that list in the last decade. Byrnes and Summerville have stronger guard programs (at times). But Wando's guard might be less developed but they know how to clean. I will always maintain the way to grow your marching band is to increase the quality of your concert band. Many SC schools are so wrapped up in the competitiveness of marching that they loose that ART part of what they are doing. There is tremendous potential - but picking up the $100 bill to success seems hard for many in the state. But Scott Rush has many books so it should be pretty easy... LOL Some memorable shows (not Wando): Fort Mill 2011: First regional win and extreme visual program. Nation Ford 2011: As oboe12 has mentioned before so much power and they cleaned alot! Also WCU Champions and Macys. White Knoll 2012: Their best show. Byrnes 2013: Bone had them great right out the gate. Fort Mill 2014: The music of the Bells of Notre Dame hasn't been played again. Fort Mill 2015: Fifth place Atlanta. River Bluff 2015: Their best band IMO. Byrnes 2016: Great music / guard. Fort Mill/ Byrnes 2017: What's old is new again. Lexington 2019: Great show! They're coming up. Byrnes 2019: Their best show ever IMO. Summerville 2019: Coming in hot!
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