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Post by Allohak on Oct 27, 2019 10:08:08 GMT -6
I was surprised to see a particular well-known band with a director conducting music from the sidelines during finals. Is there a rule about this or is this okay? It's even explicitly stated as allowed. 21.05 Adults During the Performance Band Directors (persons with Director Name Badges) may conduct during the Performance from any place outside of the Performance Field, but within the Performance Area. This exception includes any place outside the back sideline and any place within the end zones.
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Oct 27, 2019 11:04:59 GMT -6
I was surprised to see a particular well-known band with a director conducting music from the sidelines during finals. Is there a rule about this or is this okay? Here in Ohio there are a few small competing bands with no drum majors. Some of them simply go without; in others the director conducts.
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Oct 27, 2019 11:24:25 GMT -6
So yesterday, I wrote here that Grove City was: A) better in music performance than Centerville or Center Grove; B) better in music performance than Waxahachie had been at Waco (16.60 Prelims; 16.85 Finals); C) probably at about 6th in music performance among Friday's bands; D) going to finish with a Finals-worthy music performance score; but E) not going to make Finals. And about a month ago, I wrote here that Grove City's music performance rank would be at least ten places better than their visual performance rank. Well, I haven't tried to figure out where they placed in visual performance, but they were 27th in overall score, so "at least" turns out to be a huge understatement. Because here are the top 20 music performance scores in Prelims, with an "F" indicating bands that performed Friday: 1) 18.050 -- Blue Springs - AAA 2) 18.000 -- Avon - AAAA (F) 3) 17.850 -- Carmel - AAAA (F) 4) 17.600 -- O'Fallon Township - AAAA 5) 17.400 -- Lincoln-Way - AAAA 6) 17.300 -- Castle - AAA (F) 7) 17.250 -- Fishers - AAAA (F) 8-tie) 17.150 -- Grove City - AAA (F)
8-tie) 17.150 -- Lawrence Township - AAAA (F) 10) 17.050 -- Homestead - AAAA (F) 11) 16.950 -- Lockport Township - AAAA 12) 16.850 -- Centerville - AAAA (F) 13) 16.800 -- Brownsburg - AAAA (F) 14) 16.650 -- North Hardin - AA 15) 16.625 -- Grain Valley - AA 16) 16.600 -- Marian Catholic - AA 17) 16.450 -- Blue Springs South - AAA 18) 16.350 -- Greenfield Central - AA 19) 16.325 -- Mustang - AAAA 20) 16.250 -- Center Grove - AAAA (F) (Indiana sure does seem to have a lot of big schools. In all of Ohio, there probably aren't many more 4A schools than just those listed above from Indiana.) So Grove City did a little better musically than I predicted: tied for 5th in music performance on Friday. And they were third in music peformance in their class, well behind Blue Springs but pretty close to Castle -- and I had pointed specifically to Castle's tuba feature as being comparable in difficulty to Grove City's (unfeatured) tuba work. Grove City finished behind both Lakota East and Pickerington North in overall score. In OMEA, they'd probably have at least tied Lakota East and beat Pickerington North. (And for better or worse, I think the "Ohio Music Education Association" would probably be happy to be told they put too much emphasis on music vs. visual.) Curious to know about similar gaps historically between a band's placement in music, visual, or g.e., and its overall placement. Is a difference of 19 places any sort of record? I asked the same question about drum corps on Drum Corps Planet, and the largest caption vs. overall discrepancy anyone there remembers is the 1972 Appleknockers at the U.S. Open championships with a difference of 16 places between music analysis (5th) and overall (21st). That was just one judge, though.
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Post by MadScientist on Oct 27, 2019 13:07:30 GMT -6
I can't help but think that Mustang's mascot should be the Mustang. The Mustang Mustangs. Who's with me?
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Post by oboe12 on Oct 27, 2019 15:17:55 GMT -6
go spongers
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Post by nomorehoney on Oct 27, 2019 15:28:26 GMT -6
This is pretty obvious, but I want to explicitly point out the fact that 3 Illinois bands made it to the top 7 at this stacked super. They're getting deadlier by the year 😳😳
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Post by paddy on Oct 27, 2019 15:32:18 GMT -6
So yesterday, I wrote here that Grove City was: A) better in music performance than Centerville or Center Grove; B) better in music performance than Waxahachie had been at Waco (16.60 Prelims; 16.85 Finals); C) probably at about 6th in music performance among Friday's bands; D) going to finish with a Finals-worthy music performance score; but E) not going to make Finals. And about a month ago, I wrote here that Grove City's music performance rank would be at least ten places better than their visual performance rank. Well, I haven't tried to figure out where they placed in visual performance, but they were 27th in overall score, so "at least" turns out to be a huge understatement. Because here are the top 20 music performance scores in Prelims, with an "F" indicating bands that performed Friday: 1) 18.050 -- Blue Springs - AAA 2) 18.000 -- Avon - AAAA (F) 3) 17.850 -- Carmel - AAAA (F) 4) 17.600 -- O'Fallon Township - AAAA 5) 17.400 -- Lincoln-Way - AAAA 6) 17.300 -- Castle - AAA (F) 7) 17.250 -- Fishers - AAAA (F) 8-tie) 17.150 -- Grove City - AAA (F)
8-tie) 17.150 -- Lawrence Township - AAAA (F) 10) 17.050 -- Homestead - AAAA (F) 11) 16.950 -- Lockport Township - AAAA 12) 16.850 -- Centerville - AAAA (F) 13) 16.800 -- Brownsburg - AAAA (F) 14) 16.650 -- North Hardin - AA 15) 16.625 -- Grain Valley - AA 16) 16.600 -- Marian Catholic - AA 17) 16.450 -- Blue Springs South - AAA 18) 16.350 -- Greenfield Central - AA 19) 16.325 -- Mustang - AAAA 20) 16.250 -- Center Grove - AAAA (F) (Indiana sure does seem to have a lot of big schools. In all of Ohio, there probably aren't many more 4A schools than just those listed above from Indiana.) So Grove City did a little better musically than I predicted: tied for 5th in music performance on Friday. And they were third in music peformance in their class, well behind Blue Springs but pretty close to Castle -- and I had pointed specifically to Castle's tuba feature as being comparable in difficulty to Grove City's (unfeatured) tuba work. Grove City finished behind both Lakota East and Pickerington North in overall score. In OMEA, they'd probably have at least tied Lakota East and beat Pickerington North. (And for better or worse, I think the "Ohio Music Education Association" would probably be happy to be told they put too much emphasis on music vs. visual.) Curious to know about similar gaps historically between a band's placement in music, visual, or g.e., and its overall placement. Is a difference of 19 places any sort of record? I asked the same question about drum corps on Drum Corps Planet, and the largest caption vs. overall discrepancy anyone there remembers is the 1972 Appleknockers at the U.S. Open championships with a difference of 16 places between music analysis (5th) and overall (21st). That was just one judge, though. At this regional: Kettering Fairmont was 23 in music and 43 overall. Beech Grove was 31 in visual and 49 overall. And I didn’t spend much time looking for those.
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Oct 27, 2019 16:58:11 GMT -6
Curious to know about similar gaps historically between a band's placement in music, visual, or g.e., and its overall placement. Is a difference of 19 places any sort of record? I asked the same question about drum corps on Drum Corps Planet, and the largest caption vs. overall discrepancy anyone there remembers is the 1972 Appleknockers at the U.S. Open championships with a difference of 16 places between music analysis (5th) and overall (21st). That was just one judge, though. At this regional: Kettering Fairmont was 23 in music and 43 overall. Beech Grove was 31 in visual and 49 overall. And I didn’t spend much time looking for those. Thanks! So not so unusual after all. Interesting that this event had two Ohio bands score so much better in music than overall.
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Oct 27, 2019 17:29:09 GMT -6
So a number of marching bands and drum corps in the past few years have played Jonathan Newman's "Blow It Up, Start Again". The first group I head perform it was Dublin Coffman in 2015 or 2016. But it's now best known from Carolina Crown's use of it last year. And I like it!
The piece was given an orchestral performance at the Proms led by Eric Whitacre.
But I noticed that a number of reviewers said they didn't like it. So I sent a video link to my friend the music critic in California and asked him what he thought. And he agreed with the other critics, telling me it was trash.
Who's right?
Just watched the Whitacre-led performance (as well as Dublin Coffman) per your suggestion. I personally enjoyed the field arrangements quite a bit, and wouldn't mind hearing it more, quite frankly. The field instrumentation and arrangements have worked well for the piece, in my opinion. The orchestral performance I wasn't over-the-moon with, so to speak. It was enjoyable to hear it once, but it feels like it's trying too hard to be avant-garde in that setting so I probably won't give it another listen. I don't remember who it was, but someone on the Music for All forums posted a comment during that year's Grand Nationals about how they liked Dublin Coffman's until they got to that "rock and roll" number.
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Post by paddy on Oct 27, 2019 17:31:10 GMT -6
At this regional: Kettering Fairmont was 23 in music and 43 overall. Beech Grove was 31 in visual and 49 overall. And I didn’t spend much time looking for those. Thanks! So not so unusual after all. Interesting that this event had two Ohio bands score so much better in music than overall. But conversely Lakota East was the opposite at 33 music and 18 overall. Slightly related... I’ve got this idea percolating that smaller classes tend to lose spots via GE vs Music performance. Of course this will take some data parsing that I probably don’t have time for.
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Post by notinband on Oct 27, 2019 19:25:35 GMT -6
This is pretty obvious, but I want to explicitly point out the fact that 3 Illinois bands made it to the top 7 at this stacked super. They're getting deadlier by the year 😳😳 The quality of Illinois marching bands has been improving, and took a noticeable step improvement this year. Not just the Class 4A bands, but even in the lower classes the schools have been establishing successful programs. For Indy, a review of the top Illinois bands: Lincoln-Way: 3rd in Class 4A, 4th overall in Finals. O'Fallon Township: 6th overall in Finals. Lockport Township: 7th overall in Finals, first Indy Super Regional Finals appearance. Marian Catholic: 2nd in Class 2A, tied on GE, 15th overall. Prospect: 3rd in Class 3A, 17th overall.
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Post by bandio on Oct 28, 2019 5:31:14 GMT -6
I was surprised to see a particular well-known band with a director conducting music from the sidelines during finals. Is there a rule about this or is this okay? I noticed this as well.
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Post by penelope on Oct 28, 2019 13:36:24 GMT -6
Well that was about as good a performance as Grove City could hope to give with that show. I had a list of things I wanted them to clean up--and almost every one of them was. Relative to its musical potential, the only concerns I had tonight were that: (1) Some of the supporting lines which were crystal clear either live at OSU or on the recordings from their district festival or the Piqua competition were harder to hear -- not sure if that's a quirk of Flo's recording or of the domed stadium. One of the key strengths of Grove City's book is all the simultaneous moving parts; if you can't hear those, that's troubling. (2) The piano sounded a bit too loud to me. (3) They increased the volume on the synth in the big moments (it's barely been noticeable in their previous performances) and their tubas, who normally have a great thick sound underneath, weren't coming through as much as usual. Presumably that was in anticipation of the venue acoustics, but still. But the solos were all as good as they've been. The pianist in particular found her groove on the Rachmaninoff, which in all previous performances has sagged briefly in the middle. But having listened to about a dozen different recordings of the piece, I find that even the professionals often have trouble bringing that measure across clearly. It's much more difficult than it seems. And she was great tonight. They do move a lot, and sometimes very quickly, but probably not to the judges' tastes. Also, presumably in order to allow for the sound to be stronger, they move and play simultaneously less than they have in most previous seasons. A choice, but not one I love. Interesting to see them do their traditional warm-up on the field. Clearly they were worried about time.
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Post by penelope on Oct 28, 2019 13:39:07 GMT -6
Well that was about as good a performance as Grove City could hope to give with that show. I had a list of things I wanted them to clean up--and almost every one of them was. Relative to its musical potential, the only concerns I had tonight were that: (1) Some of the supporting lines which were crystal clear either live at OSU or on the recordings from their district festival or the Piqua competition were harder to hear -- not sure if that's a quirk of Flo's recording or of the domed stadium. One of the key strengths of Grove City's book is all the simultaneous moving parts; if you can't hear those, that's troubling. (2) The piano sounded a bit too loud to me. (3) They increased the volume on the synth in the big moments (it's barely been noticeable in their previous performances) and their tubas, who normally have a great thick sound underneath, weren't coming through as much as usual. Presumably that was in anticipation of the venue acoustics, but still. But the solos were all as good as they've been. The pianist in particular found her groove on the Rachmaninoff, which in all previous performances has sagged briefly in the middle. But having listened to about a dozen different recordings of the piece, I find that even the professionals often have trouble bringing that measure across clearly. It's much more difficult than it seems. And she was great tonight. They do move a lot, and sometimes very quickly, but probably not to the judges' tastes. Also, presumably in order to allow for the sound to be stronger, they move and play simultaneously less than they have in most previous seasons. A choice, but not one I love. Interesting to see them do their traditional warm-up on the field. Clearly they were worried about time. I’m glad that someone understands how hard that Rachmaninoff piece is! As an audience member it might not seem that difficult but if you watch the hands of whoever is playing it, you can see how hard it truly is with all the overlapping. Thank you for taking the time to follow the solo and do your research and for making nice comments!! (Ps I’m the GC piano soloist lol)
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Oct 28, 2019 14:30:16 GMT -6
But the solos were all as good as they've been. The pianist in particular found her groove on the Rachmaninoff, which in all previous performances has sagged briefly in the middle. But having listened to about a dozen different recordings of the piece, I find that even the professionals often have trouble bringing that measure across clearly. It's much more difficult than it seems. And she was great tonight. I’m glad that someone understands how hard that Rachmaninoff piece is! As an audience member it might not seem that difficult but if you watch the hands of whoever is playing it, you can see how hard it truly is with all the overlapping. Thank you for taking the time to follow the solo and do your research and for making nice comments!! (Ps I’m the GC piano soloist lol) Thanks very much for chiming in, and congratulations on a fine performance.
(I don't know anything about the technicalities of piano performance, but the venue where I work used to host a major international piano competition every other year, and I remember that the audience overwhelmingly wanted to buy tickets on the left side of the house, where people could more easily see the finger work. So in the final two times we hosted, the competition staff arranged with us to have a video camera pointed straight down at the keys whose images were then projected to a big overhead screen.)
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Post by sethb811 on Oct 28, 2019 17:39:07 GMT -6
So know we know going in between Carmel and Avon is much preferred to going AFTER Avon I really have to rethink Homestead making GN Finals. Forget the placement. They were barely a point over Fishers and LT, and nearly 6 off of Avon. I’m having a tough time seeing then clean this enough. My gosh, man! I wait until late October to remember these forums exist (early onset Alzheimer's I think) and the first thing I read from you is this same old rhetoric! You'd think after so many years that all those incessant Homestead chants would knock some sense into you. If I wasn't so busy building doors and raising kids I'd drive out southwest and beat you with that trumpet of yours. If Homestead doesn't make Finals, I'll just wait another year to post again. Honestly, I'll probably do that anyway. Just know I miss all you crazy nerds. In fact, I just might come to Grand Nationals and get my geek on for a few days. There needs to be at least one sensible Fort Wayne person there after all.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Oct 28, 2019 17:46:56 GMT -6
Who let THAT guy in here?
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Post by sethb811 on Oct 28, 2019 17:51:31 GMT -6
Who let THAT guy in here? 24 hour work release. I have to check back in with the warden...err wife...soon.
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Post by OldSchoolTrumpet on Oct 28, 2019 18:03:05 GMT -6
I really have to rethink Homestead making GN Finals. Forget the placement. They were barely a point over Fishers and LT, and nearly 6 off of Avon. I’m having a tough time seeing then clean this enough. My gosh, man! I wait until late October to remember these forums exist (early onset Alzheimer's I think) and the first thing I read from you is this same old rhetoric! You'd think after so many years that all those incessant Homestead chants would knock some sense into you. If I wasn't so busy building doors and raising kids I'd drive out southwest and beat you with that trumpet of yours. If Homestead doesn't make Finals, I'll just wait another year to post again. Honestly, I'll probably do that anyway. Just know I miss all you crazy nerds. In fact, I just might come to Grand Nationals and get my geek on for a few days. There needs to be at least one sensible Fort Wayne person there after all. It should comfort you knowing that some things never change. Hope all is well, my man. I’ll be at GN’s. Maybe I’ll see you there! Building doors?
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Post by sethb811 on Oct 28, 2019 18:07:53 GMT -6
I oversee the door shop at a lumber yard now. Great job. Love it. Lot of hours. Little time for band obsession.
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Post by OldSchoolTrumpet on Oct 28, 2019 18:26:19 GMT -6
I oversee the door shop at a lumber yard now. Great job. Love it. Lot of hours. Little time for band obsession. Yeah. I lost track of band for 25+ years. Life takes over. But one day your own kid(s) will take up a swell brass instrument and it begins again. Brass. That’s the essential takeaway here.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Oct 28, 2019 18:50:25 GMT -6
I oversee the door shop at a lumber yard now. Great job. Love it. Lot of hours. Little time for band obsession. Yeah. I lost track of band for 25+ years. Life takes over. But one day your own kid(s) will take up a swell brass instrument and it begins again. Brass. That’s the essential takeaway here. Or sometimes your kid picks up the very flute you played in high school and BAM...
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Post by hewhowaits on Oct 28, 2019 18:56:49 GMT -6
Yeah. I lost track of band for 25+ years. Life takes over. But one day your own kid(s) will take up a swell brass instrument and it begins again. Brass. That’s the essential takeaway here. Or sometimes your kid picks up the very flute you played in high school and BAM... Allohak started out on his mother's alto sax.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Oct 28, 2019 19:32:15 GMT -6
These stories are making me teary. Stop.
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Post by thewho on Oct 28, 2019 21:32:33 GMT -6
Lawrence Township is really confusing me as of late. I know they're trying to forge an identity, but I can't help but feel like I've seen iterations of the same exact show the past three years with neither subsequent edition being better than the prior. They also keep getting smaller. I'm concerned if they keep less than favorable competitive results membership will keep declining, which may be even harder to maintain with a purely after school activity across schools. Edit: I see I'm in the extreme minority with regards to Lawrence Township. I went back and read what I typed, and it does come across as way too critical, but I'm leaving it as-is because it is my opinion. HOWEVER, I did leave out that I actually did enjoy the show for what it was, I just find myself confused that this is the direction LT keeps going after what we've experienced from them in the past. I personally don't think we'll see them tomorrow night unless some others falter. I get you, srv, I really do. It's jarring for those of us who grew up on Lawrence Central representing the pinnacle of nuanced, delicate detail in every aspect of their design. You had to hold your breath and sit forward on your chair to take it all in. But that's not who they are anymore. Demographics have shifted rapidly in the district over the last decade, property value has fallen like crazy, and in about 15 years they shifted from upper middle class suburban families to mostly lower to middle income working class families. Private lesson funds and parental free time to maintain strong booster organizations just isn't there when all your parents are working two jobs to get make ends meet. I appreciate that they realize they can no longer be the LC of old and have since tried to go a route that allows them to blaze new trails and stand out in different ways, just like the old LC did, but now as the "other side of the tracks" kids in a sea of wealthy suburban bands playing traditional concert band fare. I really appreciate that they've been attempting to reinvent themselves, and that they finally seem to have hit that stride this year after two years prior of exploring new design territory. I've loved watching them the past two seasons, but this was something else. They seem to have finally found the pocket for this new path of design, and I'm thrilled! This is a fantastic post and I wanted to add a little more to this on Friday, but didn't have time. There's this concept that I've thought about several time dubbed unofficially as the "Bohemian Filter". I can't find the specific timing at all, but this comes from Lindsay Ellis's video about the Rent musical. In essence, the idea of the Bohemian Filter is that musicals are approved or disapproved by a select crowd at Broadway for the public. There's other ways for the musicals to reach the greater public, but I think it could be considered undeniable that Broadway has long been the gatekeeper for the popularity of musicals. These musicals require training for cast members, need specialized crews, specific stages, a ridiculous amount of money poured in wages, etc.- let's just say that it's a massive money sink. Broadway, however, can afford to continue supporting the pageantry arts form, with all the fancy crowds and people who can afford exorbitant prices unlike anywhere else. That means musicals will have to cater to that specific crowd of patrons, making musicals that at its core would not offend those people. Where this plays into Rent and marching band is watered-down concepts and implicit bias. In Rent, there's a lot of great examples of this: characters having rich parents begging for them back while the characters.... "stab" themselves with poverty, pretentious street performances, a point-of-view of poverty being a choice, refusing to actually pay rent despite their landlord stay in the place for 2 years (rent-free!!!), and finally (probably the most insulting in the whole musical), a theme that the AIDS crisis was somehow a time of successful revolution when actually the Reagan administration was basically sitting on their hands and shrugging in response to wide-spread protests. (Seriously, go watch it the video, it's a terrific criticism of the musical and frames the anger at the time). This Bohemian Filter could be applied to the pageantry arts today. I think I've talked with maybe 100-110 minority-heritage people out of a couple thousand in the parking lot at Indy Super. Let's face it- it's heavily white-centric just by the eye test alone. As a consequence, there's quite a few things that don't fly on the field- could you imagine a purely celebration show of Islam without those parents gathering up their children and going out of the stands? Look, I have a ton of issues with this that I would love to go into detail for real someday on this topic, but I think the point's made here. Lawrence Township and Ben Davis occurs an incredibly rare spot in today's activities, where both are highly storied and accomplished programs in the activity that draw from a fairly heavy minority pool (25% white for Lawrence, 35% white for Ben Davis). A lot of their students draw their experiences and roots from a different place that quite frankly I don't think many here would fully understand (including me, the suburban whitey kid ). I really can't think of any other way of saying this, so at the risk of sounding marginal and insensitive towards the band, a voice like the current-era Lawrence Township is a desperately needed influence in an activity that is heavily white. The last 2 years of Lawrence Township (2018 and 2019) have been places where I think no other band could really follow (except Ben Davis)- not saying that Avon/Carmel/CTJ/Broken Arrow would ever try, but do they even have the capacity in themselves to be able to do a show like 2018 and 2019 without white-washing? Obviously, the Lawrence Township band feels a very strong connection to their identities and roots to feel they could confidently put on a Harlem jazz show and succeed. For my selfish fan pleasure, I'm beyond thrilled Lawrence Township breaks so much of the monotony the marching arts experiences often. And lastly, I miss the Randy Greenwell/Matt James Lawrence Central so much, too. Those were some of my favorite shows and it bums me out occasionally that we wouldn't be able to see another one. However, like Greenwell's swan song in 2016, one has to go across and back. I like to think that the growth over the years of Lawrence Central as the plucky one in 1996 to their legendary years in 2001-2004 to experimental phase post-2008 to the new Lawrence Township was literally the 2016 show. All across all those years, and now it's back to who fundamentally Lawrence Central/Township are today. And today, it's no longer the meticulous Lawrence Central that Greenwell/James headed- it's the Gene Kelly/Cab Calloway/Louis Armstrong thrilling Lawrence Township at this show. We're just missing the Nicholas Brothers.
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Post by principalagent on Oct 29, 2019 6:31:23 GMT -6
The above is easily my favorite post I've ever read on a marching band forum, as it really speaks a ton to how I've been feeling about the marching arts over the last two or four seasons.
It's really interesting being a person of color (black, to be specific as I think it is relevant) who grew up in an accomplished suburban band program. I am deeply appreciative of the music education I've received--which clearly stuck with me since I'm on my ninth season as a spectator and this weekend will be my sixth weekend in a row at the San Antonio Super Regional since graduating high school. However, I've started to look at the activity a lot more critically through this lens. Especially towards the end of college when I started taking more classes in race and social analysis (don't worry to the haters, my degree is very much real) and even more now studying law and thinking about how neutral values can create disparate impacts or inherently close out different groups of people, I couldn't help but think about what this means in the entertainment field and what we value as a society. And yes, to band, too. Carmel's Totem in 2013 was my favorite show that season, and now I can barely listen to it and especially can't watch it because of exactly what thewho describes. It's frankly a poor job at a show that there isn't a real connection to. I don't want the socioeconomic make-up of a program to define what they can or cannot do, but Owasso's Shaman show just a few years later was a ton better in part because there was a lot more focus on sensitivity--their particular demographics and state history almost begged it. That's why Lawrence Township, and other programs like Ben Davis or Marian Catholic or Duncanville, should they choose to, can do something really special. Especially if you consider that judges generally are more open to pop music now than they've ever been (Leander's Toxic and Avon's Green Day for two examples from this year alone), there's tons of room to really push the envelope. I couldn't be more thrilled that BOA is giving MPLT tons of space to shine. They won't make finals at GN ever again, but they might inspire the group that does.
A few of my nerdy band friends and I recently counted the number of black judges in BOA, and I don't think we got to five. Even with a broad stroke of people of color, I still don't think we hit ten. Especially in such a subjective field as art, that matters a ton. People have different views and perspectives that they bring to the table, and their culture and heritage shape that tremendously. And in the same vein as the Rent (and Hamilton, by extension) commentary above, people are going to design shows to the judges they see and the audiences they expect. That's pretty unfortunate. Not that there aren't still a plethora of fantastic shows. But it's going to create uncomfortable and alienating blind spots as some shows are just going to come off wrong to certain groups of people once they dive in--even with the best of intentions behind them! Some won't see this world as being for them or their tastes. Some bands will stay in their box, playing only the highest forms of art music, never breaking out. Also a sad sight. Guardians tried to buck this a few years in DCI Open, and it continued to hold them back in the press box. Knowing one of their past designers well, the judges just never understood their music or what they were trying to achieve, and attempted to comment against the actual point or direction of the music. Finally, some bands will try to develop a concept that just makes things too simple or does not get to the root of reality or doesn't portray a realistic depiction of what it sets out to do.
Jeremiah and I actually wanted to come up with 28 black bandmasters to profile on HR's twitter during Black History Month and I think we couldn't even fill a week within the scope of corps-style marching. (This also begs the question of why is or is not HBCU show-style marching not valid or relevant, but I'll save that one.) And of course, the pre-eminent example almost didn't rise to his level of appreciation in our world because the Klan almost ran him out of Cobb County! I do wonder what a generally inclusive band environment could grow. I have full faith that our activity would only be better, more daring, and more interesting as a result.
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Post by bandauntie on Oct 29, 2019 7:36:44 GMT -6
Thank you both for the comments about LT! I have to say my heart sank when reading some of the priors that came out on Finals night about them! I am a teacher in LT and I can’t tell you how PROUD of these kids I am this season! Lawrence demographics have changed a ton in the last decade or so. To put it in perspective I currently have 4 languages represented in my classroom in a school that is 100 % free and reduced lunch. I show my kids the LT marching band show every year and they are beyond excited to see themselves in that program! It may not be everyone’s cup of tea but I applaud the staff of the LT marching program for doing what will keep kids coming into the program regardless of what the placement and scores could be! I sat at the LC invitational and noticed more of our EL and Hispanic families in attendance to watch their students and it brought tears in my eyes to see LT s program reaching ALL of our families! Also I can help but see the pure JOY in that program this year!!! Those kids are having a blast and it’s contagious! Way to go Pride! (And No I am not an auntie to anyone in LTs program but they do have part of my heart)
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Post by marimba11 on Oct 29, 2019 10:34:46 GMT -6
The above is easily my favorite post I've ever read on a marching band forum, as it really speaks a ton to how I've been feeling about the marching arts over the last two or four seasons. It's really interesting being a person of color (black, to be specific as I think it is relevant) who grew up in an accomplished suburban band program. I am deeply appreciative of the music education I've received--which clearly stuck with me since I'm on my ninth season as a spectator and this weekend will be my sixth weekend in a row at the San Antonio Super Regional since graduating high school. However, I've started to look at the activity a lot more critically through this lens. Especially towards the end of college when I started taking more classes in race and social analysis (don't worry to the haters, my degree is very much real) and even more now studying law and thinking about how neutral values can create disparate impacts or inherently close out different groups of people, I couldn't help but think about what this means in the entertainment field and what we value as a society. And yes, to band, too. Carmel's Totem in 2013 was my favorite show that season, and now I can barely listen to it and especially can't watch it because of exactly what thewho describes. It's frankly a poor job at a show that there isn't a real connection to. I don't want the socioeconomic make-up of a program to define what they can or cannot do, but Owasso's Shaman show just a few years later was a ton better in part because there was a lot more focus on sensitivity--their particular demographics and state history almost begged it. That's why Lawrence Township, and other programs like Ben Davis or Marian Catholic or Duncanville, should they choose to, can do something really special. Especially if you consider that judges generally are more open to pop music now than they've ever been (Leander's Toxic and Avon's Green Day for two examples from this year alone), there's tons of room to really push the envelope. I couldn't be more thrilled that BOA is giving MPLT tons of space to shine. They won't make finals at GN ever again, but they might inspire the group that does. A few of my nerdy band friends and I recently counted the number of black judges in BOA, and I don't think we got to five. Even with a broad stroke of people of color, I still don't think we hit ten. Especially in such a subjective field as art, that matters a ton. People have different views and perspectives that they bring to the table, and their culture and heritage shape that tremendously. And in the same vein as the Rent (and Hamilton, by extension) commentary above, people are going to design shows to the judges they see and the audiences they expect. That's pretty unfortunate. Not that there aren't still a plethora of fantastic shows. But it's going to create uncomfortable and alienating blind spots as some shows are just going to come off wrong to certain groups of people once they dive in--even with the best of intentions behind them! Some won't see this world as being for them or their tastes. Some bands will stay in their box, playing only the highest forms of art music, never breaking out. Also a sad sight. Guardians tried to buck this a few years in DCI Open, and it continued to hold them back in the press box. Knowing one of their past designers well, the judges just never understood their music or what they were trying to achieve, and attempted to comment against the actual point or direction of the music. Finally, some bands will try to develop a concept that just makes things too simple or does not get to the root of reality or doesn't portray a realistic depiction of what it sets out to do. Jeremiah and I actually wanted to come up with 28 black bandmasters to profile on HR's twitter during Black History Month and I think we couldn't even fill a week within the scope of corps-style marching. (This also begs the question of why is or is not HBCU show-style marching not valid or relevant, but I'll save that one.) And of course, the pre-eminent example almost didn't rise to his level of appreciation in our world because the Klan almost ran him out of Cobb County! I do wonder what a generally inclusive band environment could grow. I have full faith that our activity would only be better, more daring, and more interesting as a result. Can we not do political stuff on these boards. Thanks
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Post by sethb811 on Oct 29, 2019 10:48:53 GMT -6
Can we not do political stuff on these boards. Thanks Having a discussion (especially one so civil) on racial and socioeconomical effects in the marching arts is not a bad thing. Maybe let the conversation play out before you assume it will devolve into a modern political debate.
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Post by marimba11 on Oct 29, 2019 10:56:01 GMT -6
Can we not do political stuff on these boards. Thanks Having a discussion (especially one so civil) on racial and socioeconomical effects in the marching arts is not a bad thing. Maybe let the conversation play out before you assume it will devolve into a modern political debate. It’s not that I mind it, but Jeremiah can make a board for it and so it’s not here.
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