Broken Arrow 2007-2009

[justabandkid94]

Hey all,

2006’s Aqua is one of my all-time favorite shows. The follow up seasons from 2007-2009 were undoubtedly quite the change of pace from the straightforward design of Aqua. For anyone unfamiliar, you had 2007’s Phantasy, 2008 RUNaWAY (literally about models), and 2009’s Rite of Raptor; highly recommend seeking these out of if you haven’t. The designs (in my eyes) were extremely abstract and experimental, infused with an incredibly apparent desire to innovate.

I was marching during this era, but wasn’t exactly as in-the-loop on discussions then as I am now. Curious to hear how these shows were received at the time, and/or if opinions have changed at all over the years.



Edit: to clarify, I’m saying reception by: audience, the community, so forth — beyond just the numeric placements at contests

[boahistorybuff]

I think they all were really well received. Aqua was stunning. At least for me at the time I felt that show had captured the music through the visual design unlike any show had done before. I loved the next three years too. The visual design and way the band moved were very innovative for the time. What BA was doing visually back then is pretty much the norm today. In 2009, we could vote for fan favorite during the live broadcast. Broken Arrow won that, so they were obviously a hit with the audience. Those four seasons, in my opinion, helped establish Broken Arrow as a fan favorite, something that continues to this day. I also think those four years established the modern Broken Arrow identity that we are all familiar with today.

So if you marched then, I am assuming you were in Broken Arrow? If so, I am jealous.

[justabandkid94]

Thanks for the reply! Agreed on Aqua, just fabulous.

And no, I wasn’t in BA actually — I was one state to the south in Texas. Was mostly curious as a friend recently referred to that three year streak of BA shows as “off-putting”

[boahistorybuff]

May 31, 2020 8:50:16 GMT -6 justabandkid94 said:

Thanks for the reply! Agreed on Aqua, just fabulous.

And no, I wasn’t in BA actually — I was one state to the south in Texas. Was mostly curious as a friend recently referred to that three year streak of BA shows as “off-putting”

A lot of shows that in some ways were ahead of their time did not always sit well with the audience at the time. Looking at some of those shows in retrospect often garners a different perspective.

For example, during the early to mid 1990s, there were a lot of people that found Plymouth-Canton off-putting. I too was not always fond of some of their theatrics and vocalization. Those old shows have grown on me a bit since. I also look back at what has been done in the last couple decades and I realize how truly ahead of their time Plymouth actually was.

I will also tell a story I heard from Mr. Tim Lautzenheiser at Grand Nationals in 1988 (my freshman year). He felt our show was really good and ahead of its time and should have made finals. So he told us about the 1980 Santa Clara Vanguard. From the start of DCI in 1972 through 1989, SCV never placed lower than 3rd at the World Championships. The exception was in 1980 when they finished 7th. SCV debuted a section of asymmetric drill in their show that season. He said many in the audience found it confusing and the judges really did not know how to judge it. Up to that time, drill had always had some semblance of symmetry to it. If you check out old band or drum corps videos of the 1970s and early 1980s, you will see the nearly complete symmetry (usually centered on the 50 yard line) from start to finish in the shows. Even the trendy back corner entrance or exit had a symmetrical design to it; just off centered. Turns out, asymmetry in drill design revolutionized the look of the show. So while many in that 1980 audience were confused or put off by the section of asymmetry in SCV's show, by the end of the 1980s, marching band and drum corps shows featured significant segments of asymmetrical drill design.

So my point is that sometimes when a band or drum corps tries something new or introduces a different style or unique design (which is kind of how I felt about BA during those years), there are usually a lot of people who don't get it or don't particularly like it. Then, when everybody is doing it, they love it.

[Subito Fortissimo]

All fantastic shows! Rite of the Raptor was my favorite show of 2009 and IMO should have finished higher. Phantasy was a very progressive show and is highly underrated.

[justabandkid94]

May 31, 2020 11:07:21 GMT -6 Subito Fortissimo said:

All fantastic shows! Rite of the Raptor was my favorite show of 2009 and IMO should have finished higher. Phantasy was a very progressive show and is highly underrated.

The backfield facing show intro with Elsa’s is just so good.

[cinnamonpromenade]

May 30, 2020 21:40:24 GMT -6 justabandkid94 said:

Hey all,

2006’s Aqua is one of my all-time favorite shows. The follow up seasons from 2007-2009 were undoubtedly quite the change of pace from the straightforward design of Aqua. For anyone unfamiliar, you had 2007’s Phantasy, 2008 RUNaWAY (literally about models), and 2009’s Rite of Raptor; highly recommend seeking these out of if you haven’t. The designs (in my eyes) were extremely abstract and experimental, infused with an incredibly apparent desire to innovate.

I was marching during this era, but wasn’t exactly as in-the-loop on discussions then as I am now. Curious to hear how these shows were received at the time, and/or if opinions have changed at all over the years.



Edit: to clarify, I’m saying reception by: audience, the community, so forth — beyond just the numeric placements at contests

I've never really thought about these shows as their own sort of weird triptych but they really were. Or, maybe, Aqua was the most elegant iteration of a show style that 07-09 then emulated. Aaron Guidry was a master at sewing bits of musical material into fresh, standalone motifs; the fluidity of his arrangements inspired equally fluid visual textures, which were maybe the advent of the kinds of "staging" we see from elite groups nowadays.

I was in high school when these shows were performed. I can't remember them garnering much attention on the BOA forums back then, save for 2009. Rite of the Raptor obviously got attention for being dinosaur-themed, but I also remember the scandal of their kids being requested to purchase kneepads (so that they could crawl forward on their knees while playing). Ok, not really a "scandal," but I remember that feeling so provocative in the way Crown wearing purple pants in 2013 was so provocative.

Every year-ish, people on the BOA/HornRank forums ask things like "rank your favorite shows from [insert band name here]." It feels like BA's most popular shows are either Aqua or from the 2011-present era (presumably since these are fresher in people's minds and more accessible on Youtube than older shows are). Not many people mention BA's 07-09 shows. At most, it's about how zany 09 was and the opening hit from 07.

At the bottom of most lists is 08, which I still find SO shocking. That show is a hallmark of visual GE in my opinion; it feels SO contemporary with finalist shows nowadays. I could watch the high-cam of that over and over again... I encourage anyone reading this to look it up and watch it too!! Don't let me be the only RUN(a)WAY stan on here!!!

[macwinlin]

Jun 1, 2020 23:53:42 GMT -6 cinnamonpromenade said:

May 30, 2020 21:40:24 GMT -6 justabandkid94 said:

I can't seem to master the editing of quotes tonight, but:

2008 is one of my favorite BA shows.

Those difficult woodwind passages in the opener were stunning. Although it had been used years before, they executed the white/black leg look in a tremendous way. The guard legit wore heels during parts of the show. Also, that brass sting at the end of the ballad was killer.

The finals video is on YouTube. :-)

[Jake W.]

I love these years, of BOA in general! 

I'll sum BA's '07-'09 shows up with a general statement that I'll delve into more in the following paragraphs: these three shows were all great, but attempted to recapture the magic of Aqua, and none achieved that.

Keep in mind, BA's win in '06 was entirely unexpected, even for them. They didn't medal in Semis, and had never even finished in the top half of Finals before! I would compare it to Blue Springs' 2018 season in that they somewhat surprised even themselves by skyrocketing up in the rankings and then were faced with the challenge of repeating those unexpected results the following season(s).

2007 is one of my favorite BA shows of all time. It was my sophomore year of college, I was just getting into my first round of Music History courses, and that exposed me to Wagner. BA comes out with an entirely abstract, Wagnerian, over-the-top, dreamlike show, and I was all in. The premise is simple & loose: the main character dives deeper into this increasingly-bizarre fantasy world, which gets more odd the more the show goes on, until reality is totally inverted, the band proper plays the final closing chords facing backfield, and the show stretches to its absolute limits before it breaks. This was Wagner's operas circa the mid-1800s: completely over the top, dreamlike, unrealistic, bizarre, and beautiful. To me, that was always the meaning of the show: portrayal of Wagnerian fantasy on a football field! I loved it. But, as much as I loved it, 6th place was where it belonged. Incredible, but probably not championship-worthy. Simply a band trying to recapture & rechannel the magic they had somehow stumbled upon the prior season. 

2008 was fine. I get that everyone loves it. Here's my issue with the show: no one cared about the premise. Yes, fashion models are expelled from the industry at a ridiculously young age, and yet...eh. It's simply not an issue that anyone outside of the industry would spend much time thinking about. No one in the audience sympathized with their plight, so the show ended up reading almost as an exercise in forced empathy as opposed to genuinely stirring emotion. Although, OF COURSE, the devolving announcement leading into The Way We Were as the models were losing their collective grips on reality was just brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Nothing like anyone had seen or heard before up to that point in time. A few issues I had with the show: a) why Claire de Lune? The three pieces in Aqua seemed so perfectly chosen and every note sewn together seemed utterly intentional; not as much so in Run(a)way, other than The Way We Were. And b), it simply wasn't BA's best-playing group. The band proper sounded weak (for BA standards, still of course wonderful by most standards), and the soloists had some rough spots. I remember sitting next to a group of parents in the stands near the end of one of the Prelims days, and some friends & I convinced them to stay for BA at the end of the night, because it would be a treat. They weren't really impressed or not impressed, I really just remember them being confused, and I took that as a sign that the show just didn't connect with a typical audience member. Not that every show needs to! I just feel all these years later that the show landed in a more odd fashion rather than the grandiose manner it was intended. A fun memory of this show for me is that Lafayette (LA) performed after them either in Finals or Semis, on what was their (Lafayette's) first trip to GN. Lafayette was known at that point for their fairly traditional (read: banal) shows, and they were a band who existed in a geographic bubble, rarely able to attend any contest where their safe designs weren't the gold standard. Anyway, the Lafayette guard girls were lined up in the end zone, and BA's models ended the show totally in character, eyeliner running, strutting in heels, psychotic breaks, arms outstretched and trembling to the Lafayette guard girls in the end zone. I remember we all got a kick out of what a welcome to the national stage this had to have been for the Lafayette guard members.

2009, Rite of the Raptor, was nice! Just nice. 6th place was, again, a reasonable landing spot for this show. I really enjoyed Rite of The Raptor, but I must admit I don't revisit it too often. It was a rather benign arrangement of Rite of Spring, and I thought a missed opportunity to really go wild on some of the meatiest, feral music in the entire orchestral canon. The marching on the knees part was phenomenal, though. Other than that, not a bad show at all, and not an insanely terrific one either. More of a tightly-woven package than Run(a)way, but, ironically enough, lacking the teeth & bite of Run(a)way.

If Aqua hadn't come before these three shows and BA had had a bit more of a gradual incline up to the top, I would say all of these shows would have been viewed in a bit more of a positive manner --- not that they were viewed negatively at all, but they all landed around where they should have. But take out BA's surprise win in '06 and all of a sudden 3 6th place finishes in a row look QUITE wonderful, especially for a band that up to that point had placed in the bottom half of Finals, and didn't even make it in '05. But with the comparison to the '06 magic being unavoidable, I think all 3 shows had a little less sparkle & unrelenting eye for the details. 

[Allohak]

I'll chime in to put forth what others have steered clear of mentioning was a popular opinion of the shows at the time 😎

There were many who saw the design of BA '08 and '09 as the group coming out and saying "we're gonna do a theme that's super abstract, almost ridiculous. But we're BA, so we don't care what you think!" Particularly in the case of '09. I distinctly remember conversations about how it was essentially just the same 7-note passage over and over for 10 minutes.

For me, '06 and '07 were very good, '08 and '09 were ok. I've only ever enjoyed 3 BA shows, though (Aqua, Phantasy, ZO) 🤷‍♂️

[boahistorybuff]

Jun 15, 2020 15:41:26 GMT -6 Allohak said:

I'll chime in to put forth what others have steered clear of mentioning was a popular opinion of the shows at the time 😎

There were many who saw the design of BA '08 and '09 as the group coming out and saying "we're gonna do a theme that's super abstract, almost ridiculous. But we're BA, so we don't care what you think!" Particularly in the case of '09. I distinctly remember conversations about how it was essentially just the same 7-note passage over and over for 10 minutes.

For me, '06 and '07 were very good, '08 and '09 were ok. I've only ever enjoyed 3 BA shows, though (Aqua, Phantasy, ZO) 🤷‍♂️

Its probably why BA only placed 6th in 07, 08 and 09. Yes they were not as complex musically as say Avon, Bell, Marian, Carmel in those seasons. As far as all time favorite BA shows, gotta throw FaceMe in there. I thought that was just a cool show. Getting back to 07,08, and 09, yes the shows were very abstract and I can see them being somewhat polarizing. I think they did really push the envelope visually, especially in 09. But yea, it took them a few years to get the music back up to what they delivered with Aqua.

[marimba11]

Aqua was the best before ZO no question. I honestly think the issue with BA 07-09 was the music choice, it never helped the effect much. Even though they played great every year.

[cinnamonpromenade]

Jun 15, 2020 13:12:31 GMT -6 Jake W. said:

2008 was fine. I get that everyone loves it. Here's my issue with the show: no one cared about the premise. Yes, fashion models are expelled from the industry at a ridiculously young age, and yet...eh. It's simply not an issue that anyone outside of the industry would spend much time thinking about. No one in the audience sympathized with their plight, so the show ended up reading almost as an exercise in forced empathy as opposed to genuinely stirring emotion. Although, OF COURSE, the devolving announcement leading into The Way We Were as the models were losing their collective grips on reality was just brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Nothing like anyone had seen or heard before up to that point in time. A few issues I had with the show: a) why Claire de Lune? The three pieces in Aqua seemed so perfectly chosen and every note sewn together seemed utterly intentional; not as much so in Run(a)way, other than The Way We Were. And b), it simply wasn't BA's best-playing group. The band proper sounded weak (for BA standards, still of course wonderful by most standards), and the soloists had some rough spots. I remember sitting next to a group of parents in the stands near the end of one of the Prelims days, and some friends & I convinced them to stay for BA at the end of the night, because it would be a treat. They weren't really impressed or not impressed, I really just remember them being confused, and I took that as a sign that the show just didn't connect with a typical audience member. Not that every show needs to! I just feel all these years later that the show landed in a more odd fashion rather than the grandiose manner it was intended.

You sum it up best when you say "It's simply not an issue that anyone outside of the industry would spend much time thinking about." If you can put yourself in the mindset of what it might mean to be in the modeling industry, I think this show is pretty raw and captivating. If it's not something you care much about... then it's hard to find this show very entertaining.

The Pines of Rome excerpts communicate high drama. The Way We Were communicates a nostalgic longing for a more fulfilling, less complicated past. Clair de Lune communicates a simple innocence, a pure naïveté.

To me, there's something romantic about glamour and opulence. What it takes to chase after it, the sacrifices made along the way... the fame and accolades that come with its attainment... the sobering realization that fulfilling your "dream" was actually anything but fulfilling...

Honestly, it's a very relatable concept: the desire to feel wanted and known by others, and the disappointment that comes with never feeling truly wanted or truly known. It's a tragic narrative but a pretty universal one.

Though I've felt all of these emotions on a visceral level since the first time I've watched the show, I'll admit that it took work for me to actually articulate these feelings. This show fails in that it requires the audience to lean in and to do some work to understand it. But, as someone who appreciates a show that inspires him to think, this is exactly why I love it.

I would argue that the show would've been way more successful if the wind players' chops weren't so blown by that finals performance. I wonder if the book was a little too hard or if this was a slightly weaker ensemble (by BA's standards).

I think it could've been more successful, too, if there was more that made this show feel like it was specifically about supermodels. Without the show title, would I understand that this is specifically about modeling? All of the details in the guard costuming are imperceivable from the high cam. The narratives I described above aren't necessarily unique to the modeling world. 

"Art" is successful so long as it inspires you to feel or think anything. "Design" is successful if it inspires you to feel or think something specific, as determined by the designer. Regardless of flaws in its design, I think the show is saved by how good its art is.

[boahistorybuff]

Love the commentary. I have often struggled to understanding many of the shows over the last couple decades because they have been so much more abstract than what they were in my day. I was in the activity during the very early days of theme based shows when things were much more literal. So it is nice to read a more detailed description of what was a very abstract show.

[Jake W.]

cinnamonpromenade, those are EXCELLENT points, most of which I hadn't considered before. I like your idea that "Claire de Lune" was used to portray a past of innocence & naivety. Wholesomeness, even. That makes sense to me in a way I hadn't viewed the use of the piece before, although I still maintain that the music book wasn't the absolutely perfect patchwork quilt that Aqua was (or even Phantasy), where every short passage seemed to have its clear intent, clear being the key word there. 

I do get what you mean, and I've always preferred designs that make me think and are more complex; hell, Greg Bimm's designs for Marian Catholic have and always will be my most preferred. I love everything you stated about why the show hit you, and yet, I still don't think Run(a)way was able to correctly translate that beautiful take to very many audience members in the same way. I get all of what you are saying about its intent, and content, but somehow that didn't wrap up into an even close to universal translation as a complete package. And, that was initially the question anyway by OP....how did BA's '07-'09 shows land with audiences after the had lit the marching world on fire with Aqua.

I wish there were a close up version on YouTube all these years later. I think the show bears repeating after 12 years, and I will admit that I initially viewed it with naive & immature 20-year-old eyes. Maybe I would feel differently about the show with 12 years of perspective gained.

I love these discussions!!!! It sometimes feels like I'm the only one who has all these thoughts bandying about in their head of specific shows from a decade ago or more. It's nice to air them out!