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Post by boilers1 on Oct 31, 2021 10:46:53 GMT -6
Wouldn't it be simpler if they just reversed the performance order from SemiState for State.
Just a thought....
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Post by 70sguardchick on Oct 31, 2021 10:48:21 GMT -6
Open Class A Carmel Marching Greyhounds Fishers Marching Tiger Band Castle Marching Knights Homestead Spartan Alliance Band Center Grove Marching Band Avon Marching Black & Gold Floyd Central Highlander Band Carroll Charger Pride Noblesville Marching Millers Brownsburg Awards
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Post by indyfan921 on Oct 31, 2021 10:49:09 GMT -6
Wouldn't it be simpler if they just reversed the performance order from SemiState for State. Just a thought.... Not necessarily. This would require bands like Munster and Evansville to be up and at it at 5 AM in order to get to state in time. basically The farther away you are, the later you go.
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Post by 70sguardchick on Oct 31, 2021 10:53:36 GMT -6
The performance order is up on IN Bands
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sue79
Junior Member
Posts: 19
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Post by sue79 on Oct 31, 2021 11:01:26 GMT -6
Huge advantage to Avon with the draw!
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Post by indyguardmom on Oct 31, 2021 11:38:54 GMT -6
Wouldn't it be simpler if they just reversed the performance order from SemiState for State. Just a thought.... Not necessarily. This would require bands like Munster and Evansville to be up and at it at 5 AM in order to get to state in time. basically The farther away you are, the later you go. That's not true. It's a random draw. The class order rotates every year except that class A always goes last.
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Post by indyfan921 on Oct 31, 2021 12:01:17 GMT -6
Not necessarily. This would require bands like Munster and Evansville to be up and at it at 5 AM in order to get to state in time. basically The farther away you are, the later you go. That's not true. It's a random draw. The class order rotates every year except that class A always goes last. I thought it was based of distance from indy. my bad.
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Post by 70sguardchick on Oct 31, 2021 12:03:53 GMT -6
Semi state is distance from Indy+ draw
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Post by paddy on Oct 31, 2021 12:08:20 GMT -6
That's not true. It's a random draw. The class order rotates every year except that class A always goes last. I thought it was based of distance from indy. my bad. Semi-state is a random draw, but a band enters the draw base upon distance. The closest 6 bands are in the hat, one is drawn. The next closest band (7) is added and they draw again. This continues until all bands are drawn State is purely random and based on a random draw done before semi state. Every band draws a number 1-20 and then perform in that order. If you pull 9 in that draw, but bands 1-8 don’t make state you go first. The directors know their performance slot as soon as finalists are announced.
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Post by 70sguardchick on Oct 31, 2021 13:05:02 GMT -6
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Post by supersound on Oct 31, 2021 13:27:23 GMT -6
Genuine question, why are ISSMA results so secretive? From a Non-Indiana person.
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Post by paddy on Oct 31, 2021 13:33:42 GMT -6
Genuine question, why are ISSMA results so secretive? From a Non-Indiana person. The first rule of ISSMA results is you don’t talk about ISSMA results.
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Post by supersound on Oct 31, 2021 13:40:55 GMT -6
Genuine question, why are ISSMA results so secretive? From a Non-Indiana person. The first rule of ISSMA results is you don’t talk about ISSMA results. Funny response but also I’d like to know if there’s like an official ISSMA sanctioned reason. Sorry. I just find it interesting.
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Post by indyguardmom on Oct 31, 2021 13:42:26 GMT -6
The first rule of ISSMA results is you don’t talk about ISSMA results. Funny response but also I’d like to know if there’s like an official ISSMA sanctioned reason. Sorry. I just find it interesting. I've always heard that it's because ISSMA doesn't want to focus on the competitive nature of marching band and wants it to be "educational" only.
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sue79
Junior Member
Posts: 19
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Post by sue79 on Oct 31, 2021 13:44:28 GMT -6
The first rule of ISSMA results is you don’t talk about ISSMA results. Funny response but also I’d like to know if there’s like an official ISSMA sanctioned reason. Sorry. I just find it interesting. Everything about ISSMA is second rate compared to BOA - from scoring down to how parking/flow is managed at Lucas Oil
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Post by acebanddad on Oct 31, 2021 14:14:47 GMT -6
Genuine question, why are ISSMA results so secretive? From a Non-Indiana person. It’s been that way for time eternal. After 21 years hanging around this activity here in Indiana it seems like the only people that like it that way are the ISSMA officials.
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Post by boilers1 on Oct 31, 2021 15:09:57 GMT -6
ISSMA stand on this statement:
"Band competitions are called festivals or invitations instead of competitions to emphasis the educational attributes of marching bands."
....not that I agree with that. In class A regionals, 21 bands competed, 20 received Gold ratings and one received a Silver rating... they all advanced to SemiState. Everyone receives a participation trophy.
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sue79
Junior Member
Posts: 19
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Post by sue79 on Oct 31, 2021 15:14:33 GMT -6
ISSMA stand on this statement: "Band competitions are called festivals or invitations instead of competitions to emphasis the educational attributes of marching bands." ....not that I agree with that. In class A regionals, 21 bands competed, 20 received Gold ratings and one received a Silver rating... they all advanced to SemiState. Everyone receives a participation trophy. Exactly- if it wasn’t for the penalty, there would have been 21 golds. What’s the point. Tough to argue that level is an achievement when that’s the lowest common denominator. As for the “secret scores”… ridiculous.
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Post by kvgdc on Oct 31, 2021 15:43:34 GMT -6
Genuine question, why are ISSMA results so secretive? From a Non-Indiana person. It’s been that way for time eternal. After 21 years hanging around this activity here in Indiana it seems like the only people that like it that way are the ISSMA officials. I'm actually curious when they went to this for district and regionals? Cause I totally remember scores in the late 80s when I marched. Perhaps when they added the semi-state thingy? Or maybe I just predate "time eternal" now?
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Post by kvgdc on Oct 31, 2021 15:45:41 GMT -6
Huge advantage to Avon with the draw! Dunno about that. I can remember a few times in the 80s where Ben Davis went first and basically "set a bar by which everyone else was measured." Carmel could well do that by going on first.
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Post by Marching Observer on Oct 31, 2021 16:24:42 GMT -6
The only time we got scores when I was in for ISSMA (01-04), was when the director told us ours and maybe whoever was above us. Definitely not all of them or seeing recaps.
As for going on first, yes you set the bar. But I've seen a compiled list over the past 30 years and performance orders and I think for Class A that only really 3 or 4 bands have won going on first. There is a reason why BOA ended up changing the order for finals too.
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Post by angelee on Oct 31, 2021 17:03:08 GMT -6
Huge advantage to Avon with the draw! Dunno about that. I can remember a few times in the 80s where Ben Davis went first and basically "set a bar by which everyone else was measured." Carmel could well do that by going on first. When I marched back in the before times, the band I was in went first and we won state in A that year. It’s definitely not the best draw to go first, but if you set the bar at “the best” and leave no doubt and set the bar, the judges will see that for what it is.
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Post by drummerboy on Oct 31, 2021 20:06:57 GMT -6
The only time we got scores when I was in for ISSMA (01-04), was when the director told us ours and maybe whoever was above us. Definitely not all of them or seeing recaps. As for going on first, yes you set the bar. But I've seen a compiled list over the past 30 years and performance orders and I think for Class A that only really 3 or 4 bands have won going on first. There is a reason why BOA ended up changing the order for finals too. My thoughts on the ISSMA process is this: Regionals - judges at each regional are charged to get the best 10 bands on to semi state (each) and scores are fairly meaningless between the two as two different sites/panels Semi-State - one judge panel charged with getting the correct 10 bands on to state, but the actual scores may be a bit varried as they manage numbers with 20 bands performing and some of the best go early. State - judging is specific to get the right order. When you perform does matter. No judges want to give the "big" score right off the bat but they all know who the best bands are. In this year's draw and based on where they have been scoring over the last two iSSMA events and BOA Super, I would say the first 4 will allow the judges to give a meaningful gauge for Carmel, then Fishers, then Castle, then Homestead. Avon is a winner in my opinion as when they go, the judges will be more willing to give bigger scores having seen 4 of the "expected" top 6 before Avon. I think the BIG winner is Brownsburg drawing last! Don't be surprised to see them finish 3rd!
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Post by warehouse314 on Nov 1, 2021 6:49:31 GMT -6
The only time we got scores when I was in for ISSMA (01-04), was when the director told us ours and maybe whoever was above us. Definitely not all of them or seeing recaps. As for going on first, yes you set the bar. But I've seen a compiled list over the past 30 years and performance orders and I think for Class A that only really 3 or 4 bands have won going on first. There is a reason why BOA ended up changing the order for finals too. I think the luck of the draw is going to play a significant role in determining the Class A champion this year, no matter how high Carmel "sets the bar" by going first. And I think the same thing would happen if Avon was going first and Carmel was going sixth. Personally, I think it's past time for ISSMA to go to a "top 5 - bottom 5" draw for finals. But again, just my opinion...
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sue79
Junior Member
Posts: 19
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Post by sue79 on Nov 1, 2021 7:28:13 GMT -6
The only time we got scores when I was in for ISSMA (01-04), was when the director told us ours and maybe whoever was above us. Definitely not all of them or seeing recaps. As for going on first, yes you set the bar. But I've seen a compiled list over the past 30 years and performance orders and I think for Class A that only really 3 or 4 bands have won going on first. There is a reason why BOA ended up changing the order for finals too. I think the luck of the draw is going to play a significant role in determining the Class A champion this year, no matter how high Carmel "sets the bar" by going first. And I think the same thing would happen if Avon was going first and Carmel was going sixth. Personally, I think it's past time for ISSMA to go to a "top 5 - bottom 5" draw for finals. But again, just my opinion... Couldn’t agree more
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Post by paddy on Nov 1, 2021 8:31:04 GMT -6
The only time we got scores when I was in for ISSMA (01-04), was when the director told us ours and maybe whoever was above us. Definitely not all of them or seeing recaps. As for going on first, yes you set the bar. But I've seen a compiled list over the past 30 years and performance orders and I think for Class A that only really 3 or 4 bands have won going on first. There is a reason why BOA ended up changing the order for finals too. I think the luck of the draw is going to play a significant role in determining the Class A champion this year, no matter how high Carmel "sets the bar" by going first. And I think the same thing would happen if Avon was going first and Carmel was going sixth. Personally, I think it's past time for ISSMA to go to a "top 5 - bottom 5" draw for finals. But again, just my opinion... Get better judging at semi-state or seed semi-state and seeding state makes sense. Someone early in the semi-state draw places in bottom 5 and then makes top 5 at state nearly every year. Heck, the state champion in B was 6th and second place was 9th at semi-state and went on first in 2019. And that was mostly because they were in the first block at semi-state. If you seed state you have to seed semi-state.
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Post by Marching Observer on Nov 1, 2021 9:20:35 GMT -6
That's impossible to do (fairly) when you have bands coming from two different Regionals. Now we could argue that regionals is no longer needed as the number of open class groups competing has shrunk so much thanks to Scholastic Class, but that's a discussion for a different thread.
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Post by mrmatthews on Nov 1, 2021 9:29:13 GMT -6
I realize there aren't many Class D folks here, but how the heck did Monrovia beat all ISSMA Class D bands (Forest Park, Lewis Cass, Fairfield, etc), finishing 3rd in 1A last weekend at BOA, yet miss out of making finals in Class D just 1 week later? I realize judging is a little different, but wow.
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Post by Marching Observer on Nov 1, 2021 9:35:04 GMT -6
I realize there aren't many Class D folks here, but how the heck did Monrovia beat all ISSMA Class D bands (Forest Park, Lewis Cass, Fairfield, etc), finishing 3rd in 1A last weekend at BOA, yet miss out of making finals in Class D just 1 week later? I realize judging is a little different, but wow. Weather. Going on so much later (and first band on one Saturday for BOA). Bad run. Etc. Pick your poison heh. Same can be said for Goshen and MPLT. Times like this you really can see the difference in the schools of thought and systems.
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Post by paddy on Nov 1, 2021 9:47:09 GMT -6
That's impossible to do (fairly) when you have bands coming from two different Regionals. This is a problem, but it highlights the challenge to any type of seeding conversation. When there is a disparity between early slots and late slots at semi-state, you can't seed off of those scores.
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