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Post by vidal28rdg on Mar 29, 2023 15:14:06 GMT -6
On #2 - I'm curious if you care - or even notice - when a show with a distinctly American theme uses music selections by non-American composers. Was it Friendswood this past year who did the French show? Could be misremembering. I want to say they used French music. So did Round Rock in 2019 too. But I do agree with you. I think it helps Music General Effect consistency too. But what do I know lol Waxahachie this past year, Ratatouille’s main theme, and Paris Sketches were used(not written by French composers) I forget what other repertoire they used, but I would imagine they definitely had French composers in their show as well, both works I mentioned do very well in evoking that French energy and sound. Even when using composers from said native country or place that you want to evoke, especially if the work is popular, the music could be a part of a “cosmopolitan” composite where native composers could’ve very well taken influence from their own particular region, or from other places. America itself is a great example of this when many composers from far and wide write music about what their experiences are, it very well could catch on with Americans because they feel their character, spirit, and style was well-represented and embodied in the work. The best way to have that kind of successful evocation and representation with music and with this medium is just to put the effort in and do research when putting a program together. That’s all it takes, and it should be done when approaching any concept one wants to tackle in a marching show.
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Post by hewhowaits on Mar 29, 2023 18:54:12 GMT -6
5. Unnecessary props, there are so many shows that I've seen that have so many props to the point that I'm not even focusing on the show anymore and I'm just wondering how much money the show cost them lmao. There was one show in particular that I can't remember the name of, which had so many different types of props that I just didn't know where to look. On the other side though there were also times where I've seen props that just literally serve no purpose other than to cover up the field, and mostly just seem to be in the way. Either way they make the show feel like they would've just been better off without them This might just be me, but this is exactly my issue with at least 60% of recent Cartwright-designed shows. We may see some change in that regard coming sooner rather than later. Remember, a Wes show did quite well in 2022 with nothing in the way of props except some fancy tarps.
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Post by marimba11 on Mar 29, 2023 22:08:50 GMT -6
Was it Friendswood this past year who did the French show? Could be misremembering. I want to say they used French music. So did Round Rock in 2019 too. But I do agree with you. I think it helps Music General Effect consistency too. But what do I know lol Waxahachie this past year, Ratatouille’s main theme, and Paris Sketches were used(not written by French composers) I forget what other repertoire they used, but I would imagine they definitely had French composers in their show as well, both works I mentioned do very well in evoking that French energy and sound. Even when using composers from said native country or place that you want to evoke, especially if the work is popular, the music could be a part of a “cosmopolitan” composite where native composers could’ve very well taken influence from their own particular region, or from other places. America itself is a great example of this when many composers from far and wide write music about what their experiences are, it very well could catch on with Americans because they feel their character, spirit, and style was well-represented and embodied in the work. The best way to have that kind of successful evocation and representation with music and with this medium is just to put the effort in and do research when putting a program together. That’s all it takes, and it should be done when approaching any concept one wants to tackle in a marching show. My mistake. Thanks for the explanation
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Post by vidal28rdg on Mar 30, 2023 19:26:51 GMT -6
My mistake. Thanks for the explanation Not a problem! I just think the concept of representation and accuracy is a bit more complex than what it may appear to be for some, not necessarily black and white. It’s a discussion that’s always worth having at least so people know there was effort put into what a show, story, product was trying to convey!👀
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Post by supersound on Mar 30, 2023 23:16:04 GMT -6
On #2 - I'm curious if you care - or even notice - when a show with a distinctly American theme uses music selections by non-American composers. Weird straw-man to bring up, just create shows that are culturally sensible and respectable.
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Post by yayband914 on Mar 30, 2023 23:38:28 GMT -6
On #2 - I'm curious if you care - or even notice - when a show with a distinctly American theme uses music selections by non-American composers. Was it Friendswood this past year who did the French show? Could be misremembering. I want to say they used French music. So did Round Rock in 2019 too. But I do agree with you. I think it helps Music General Effect consistency too. But what do I know lol Waxahachie also did a French themed show. “Building Paris.”
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Post by FaultLineBlues on Mar 31, 2023 16:41:55 GMT -6
I was thinking about things that I've been tired of seeing in show design, and I was wondering if anyone else had any pet peeves when it came to marching shows? (note: this isn't intended to target specific programs or any of the students in them so please don't make this thread into something like that, I've intentionally made my wording broad and unspecific) Anyways, I'll start with mine. 1. When a band has a beautiful uniform with stitching and dimensionality and replaces it with a dri-fit shirt with a very 2D looking design printed on. I just find it very cheap looking, even when it's done by high level programs. 2. When a group decides to do a show representing a non-American or European culture and uses source music primarily composed by American or European artists. I feel pretty strongly about this one, enough so that I typed up a whole thread to post about it, but I decided against it because I wasn't sure if it'd go over well. It just sucks to be excited to see something intended to represent you, then feeling like you just watched a caricature on field. On #2 - I'm curious if you care - or even notice - when a show with a distinctly American theme uses music selections by non-American composers. I don't know if I can name any examples off the top of my head for what you're saying, but I also don't remember a whole bunch of shows that are soley American-themed, with the exception of Broken Arrow a few years ago. It's also just a different issue, because if it's a show about America, there's a decent chance it's Americans choosing music that they feel represents themselves and their culture, rather than choosing music that they think represents others and their cultures. I do think it's less of a problem overall. The issue also goes beyond just the music and also exists in visual design and overall conceptualization.
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Post by abtwitch on Apr 6, 2023 16:20:56 GMT -6
I forgot a big one.
Patriotic shows.
Just stop, please. I don't hate this country I just hate the shows about it 95% of the time looking at you Broken Arrow.
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Post by cybrunette on Apr 6, 2023 17:50:08 GMT -6
I forgot a big one. Patriotic shows. Just stop, please. I don't hate this country I just hate the shows about it 95% of the time looking at you Broken Arrow.Just my 2 cents.. I think patriotic shows are fine & work well with non-competitive bands. Half time shows during a football game? Great! Competitions? A single patriotic piece within a show is fine if arranged well, but that's about as far as I'd go on my enjoyment side. Also similarly, schools that have a heavy Latino population that do basically the same thing just with Spanish / Hispanic culture. They always feel forced. Fortunately I was never a part of shows like these lol, but I always wonder if the students in shows actually enjoy performing them? I know they're a hit with their respective communities, parents, and grandparents, but that's as far as I see it going.
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Post by statechamp1239 on Apr 6, 2023 18:15:52 GMT -6
I forgot a big one. Patriotic shows. Just stop, please. I don't hate this country I just hate the shows about it 95% of the time looking at you Broken Arrow.Agree. I just find these shows to be boring and I've seen many, always constricting designer into one narrow template. Either color guard or band members forming a block to set the Look! Look! We made the American flag with red/white/blue flags, playing the exact same music that we've all heard a billion times, slow tempo, and now everyone just plays exact copy of Broken Arrow show or something else. Nothing ever exciting and never really has consistent strong storyline that weave throughout the show. There are some show that follow an American theme the best is Center Grove 2005 C.I.A., and L.D. Bell 2010 show was good. But I can appreciate all of the student playing the heck out their show tho.
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Post by statechamp1239 on Apr 6, 2023 18:41:56 GMT -6
Also similarly, schools that have a heavy Latino population that do basically the same thing just with Spanish / Hispanic culture. They always feel forced. Don't tell me ur not talking about Homer Hanna. I absolutely loved their show. I think Director just want to celebrate their student's proud heritage it does overhand but that's who we are. Plus, the majority of Spanish show have Danzon and Oblivion which are starting to annoy me, wished they used song like Eastlake Amor Eterno such a lovely song.
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Post by cybrunette on Apr 6, 2023 23:28:42 GMT -6
Also similarly, schools that have a heavy Latino population that do basically the same thing just with Spanish / Hispanic culture. They always feel forced. Don't tell me ur not talking about Homer Hanna. I absolutely loved their show. I think Director just want to celebrate their student's proud heritage it does overhand but that's who we are. Plus, the majority of Spanish show have Danzon and Oblivion which are starting to annoy me, wished they used song like Eastlake Amor Eterno such a lovely song. I should have elaborated more lol that's my bad! I'm speaking more on groups that consistently push them out every couple years (it's usually clear when any show gives off 'generic'). You hit part of it with the musical selection, which alludes to my original pet peeve post of overused pieces, but because I'm mixed to me it feels forced sometimes. I also can confidently say that there isn't a single one of us that can list every high school show that has been titled 'Fuego' or 'Inferno' over the years. Can't recall all the lesser known groups that I've seen in person, but they've heavily influenced how I feel & nitpick the more traditional shows similarly to how the majority of us feel & do the same with Broken Arrow & other patriotic shows. As far as Homer Hanna, there are always exceptions (I don't want to seem as if I'm the type of person who just shuts down & dismisses a show before I even experience it lol) they were incredible!
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Post by statechamp1239 on Apr 7, 2023 2:17:40 GMT -6
Don't tell me ur not talking about Homer Hanna. I absolutely loved their show. I think Director just want to celebrate their student's proud heritage it does overhand but that's who we are. Plus, the majority of Spanish show have Danzon and Oblivion which are starting to annoy me, wished they used song like Eastlake Amor Eterno such a lovely song. I should have elaborated more lol that's my bad! I'm speaking more on groups that consistently push them out every couple years (it's usually clear when any show gives off 'generic'). You hit part of it with the musical selection, which alludes to my original pet peeve post of overused pieces, but because I'm mixed to me it feels forced sometimes. I also can confidently say that there isn't a single one of us that can list every high school show that has been titled 'Fuego' or 'Inferno' over the years. Can't recall all the lesser known groups that I've seen in person, but they've heavily influenced how I feel & nitpick the more traditional shows similarly to how the majority of us feel & do the same with Broken Arrow & other patriotic shows. As far as Homer Hanna, there are always exceptions (I don't want to seem as if I'm the type of person who just shuts down & dismisses a show before I even experience it lol) they were incredible! Oh, I see. Yea I totally agree with everything.
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Post by vidal28rdg on Apr 7, 2023 2:19:11 GMT -6
I forgot a big one. Patriotic shows. Just stop, please. I don't hate this country I just hate the shows about it 95% of the time looking at you Broken Arrow. funny enough, my HS right before I went into it did a JFK show which fell on the year of the 50th anniversary of his death(2013) I thought it was really tastefully done, and it definitely left an impact on me, being the first marching band show I ever saw, so I very much have a soft spot for it! It’s not strictly a “rah rah, go America rah” kinda show, it had the extra layer of the show being a “5 stages of grief” framework to the music selection and activity of the show, loving the repertoire is a plus for me🔥🔥🔥 Does that mean I enjoy patriotic shows all the time? No, definitely not haha
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Post by OldSchoolTrumpet on Apr 7, 2023 8:30:54 GMT -6
I forgot a big one. Patriotic shows. Just stop, please. I don't hate this country I just hate the shows about it 95% of the time looking at you Broken Arrow. funny enough, my HS right before I went into it did a JFK show which fell on the year of the 50th anniversary of his death(2013) I thought it was really tastefully done, and it definitely left an impact on me, being the first marching band show I ever saw, so I very much have a soft spot for it! It’s not strictly a “rah rah, go America rah” kinda show, it had the extra layer of the show being a “5 stages of grief” framework to the music selection and activity of the show, loving the repertoire is a plus for me🔥🔥🔥 Does that mean I enjoy patriotic shows all the time? No, definitely not haha My issue with such shows...and I put any shows featuring soldiers dying (or coming home) in there...is that they tend to be overly manuipulative. THIS IS HOW I WANT YOU TO FEEL RIGHT NOW. DO IT! They're just so obvious and in your face. It's not the message. It's the heavy handed delivery. Many "message" shows can fall into this trap, but patriotic/dead soldier shows are the biggest offenders.
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Post by vidal28rdg on Apr 7, 2023 10:15:45 GMT -6
funny enough, my HS right before I went into it did a JFK show which fell on the year of the 50th anniversary of his death(2013) I thought it was really tastefully done, and it definitely left an impact on me, being the first marching band show I ever saw, so I very much have a soft spot for it! It’s not strictly a “rah rah, go America rah” kinda show, it had the extra layer of the show being a “5 stages of grief” framework to the music selection and activity of the show, loving the repertoire is a plus for me🔥🔥🔥 Does that mean I enjoy patriotic shows all the time? No, definitely not haha My issue with such shows...and I put any shows featuring soldiers dying (or coming home) in there...is that they tend to be overly manuipulative. THIS IS HOW I WANT YOU TO FEEL RIGHT NOW. DO IT! They're just so obvious and in your face. It's not the message. It's the heavy handed delivery. Many "message" shows can fall into this trap, but patriotic/dead soldier shows are the biggest offenders. I feel like shows like these can compel some sentiments to be brought out, yes. I think it can be anything from corny to manipulative/coerced sentiments on that spectrum, it all depends on delivery. I personally loved how the show I mentioned went about covering an American figure while not being strictly stirringly patriotic, but also poignant and more universal in its delivery(excuse my home team bias😂) I think they did it right. I’m just gonna plug it in here ‘cause my nostalgia runs deep for it haha
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Post by checkandclose on Apr 7, 2023 11:15:10 GMT -6
This is semi-related to the conversation, but I recall a show that I watched a year or so ago (cannot remember the school for the life of me), which was a show that was basically all about wrongdoings in the world or something like that. And that would've been cool and all if the guard wasn't dressed as holocaust victims carrying around star of david props (they had armbands on too) the band made chain forms a few times as well. That was already enough to digest, but then the ballad started and they played an audio clip of a newscaster reporting the 9/11 attacks, accompanied with flags that looked like fire. At the end of the show they held up a giant peace sign prop and then it was over.
A lot of the comments said that it had held up well but I have to disagree
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Post by bandirectorman on Apr 7, 2023 11:54:21 GMT -6
- Scatter drill
- Lack of continuity/resolution
- Uniform changes/massive sheets flying over the band,etc. (not necessarily design-specific, but close enough)
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Post by 70sguardchick on Apr 7, 2023 12:30:10 GMT -6
Too much recorded narration - in Lucas Oil it sounds really muddy and detracts rather than enhances. (not a fan of narration in general, but can be used sparingly and appropriately)
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Post by paddy on Apr 7, 2023 12:33:00 GMT -6
Lot of people today hatin' on 'Merica!
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Post by philodemus on Apr 7, 2023 14:05:48 GMT -6
Patriotic shows are not my cup of tea, either, but not due to the subject matter, necessarily. I would consider myself a patriot... a cautious, reflective patriot who is well aware of his country's flaws, but... a patriot nonetheless. No, for me the issue is that I think patriotic shows are just a bit too predictable. A straight-up, 'Merica is great type of show isn't very likely to have any new ideas or cool twists on old ones. It's the marching band equivalent of 'playin' the hits' and therefore probably a little dull.
On the other hand, a show that I absolutely adored was Bluecoats 2013, 'To Look For America...' I have no idea what the designers intended, but what I read in that show was a beautiful exploration of complicated patriotism, of exactly the ambivalent, 'patriotism with misgivings and questions' mood that I was trying to describe above. There's a certain nostalgic melancholy I feel sometimes when watching a small town 4th of July parade where I feel proud of my country and community and see all the good in it... but I know how nationalism can be twisted and used to make people do horrible things, I know those feelings are potentially beautiful but also potentially dangerous... and yet, the VFW Honor Guard goes by and I get choked up. That Bluecoats show evoked that emotion in me every time I saw it, maybe particularly because it was a drum and bugle corps show and I, like anyone else whose marched, associate the 4th of July very closely with small town parades. So. Many. Parades.
I guess it was less a 'patriotic show' but a show about patriotism, specifically the complicated patriotism of someone who isn't entirely sure he should feel that way, but still does.
Of course, that might just be me overthinking. I do that sometimes.
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Post by abtwitch on Apr 7, 2023 17:13:00 GMT -6
Patriotic shows are not my cup of tea, either, but not due to the subject matter, necessarily. I would consider myself a patriot... a cautious, reflective patriot who is well aware of his country's flaws, but... a patriot nonetheless. No, for me the issue is that I think patriotic shows are just a bit too predictable. A straight-up, 'Merica is great type of show isn't very likely to have any new ideas or cool twists on old ones. It's the marching band equivalent of 'playin' the hits' and therefore probably a little dull. On the other hand, a show that I absolutely adored was Bluecoats 2013, 'To Look For America...' I have no idea what the designers intended, but what I read in that show was a beautiful exploration of complicated patriotism, of exactly the ambivalent, 'patriotism with misgivings and questions' mood that I was trying to describe above. There's a certain nostalgic melancholy I feel sometimes when watching a small town 4th of July parade where I feel proud of my country and community and see all the good in it... but I know how nationalism can be twisted and used to make people do horrible things, I know those feelings are potentially beautiful but also potentially dangerous... and yet, the VFW Honor Guard goes by and I get choked up. That Bluecoats show evoked that emotion in me every time I saw it, maybe particularly because it was a drum and bugle corps show and I, like anyone else whose marched, associate the 4th of July very closely with small town parades. So. Many. Parades. I guess it was less a 'patriotic show' but a show about patriotism, specifically the complicated patriotism of someone who isn't entirely sure he should feel that way, but still does. Of course, that might just be me overthinking. I do that sometimes. Ditto, couldn't have said it any better
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origin
Junior Member
Posts: 18
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Post by origin on Apr 11, 2023 23:13:22 GMT -6
Shows that are heavily based in some sort of pop culture reference.
Shows about light. So overdone.
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Post by LeanderMomma on May 5, 2023 11:52:21 GMT -6
This is semi-related to the conversation, but I recall a show that I watched a year or so ago (cannot remember the school for the life of me), which was a show that was basically all about wrongdoings in the world or something like that. And that would've been cool and all if the guard wasn't dressed as holocaust victims carrying around star of david props (they had armbands on too) the band made chain forms a few times as well. That was already enough to digest, but then the ballad started and they played an audio clip of a newscaster reporting the 9/11 attacks, accompanied with flags that looked like fire. At the end of the show they held up a giant peace sign prop and then it was over. A lot of the comments said that it had held up well but I have to disagree boahistorybuff has quite an interesting write up on this show in the History section of the forum.
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