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Post by dbbandalum on Oct 19, 2022 12:22:42 GMT -6
I was reading through the beginnings of Buff's season reviews and noticed a lot of NY bands in the 80s and 90s. It was surprising to me because you rarely see a NY band compete in BOA today, even in the Northeast regionals. Former powerhouses West Gennesee and Cicero have only attended one regional in the past decade, despite them placing quite well. The only somewhat frequent attender today is Arlington, NY. They also fair quite well in these competitions. If these programs are still strong enough to compete, why have they almost disappeared from BOA? I've heard of individual programs falling from grace and leaving BOA (McGavock, TN and Lassiter, GA for example), but not an entire state. From the reviews and scores, NY seemed like today's Indiana in the 90s, so that's what makes it perplexing to me.
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50fly
Senior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by 50fly on Oct 19, 2022 12:33:20 GMT -6
What about Webster?
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Post by dbbandalum on Oct 19, 2022 12:35:44 GMT -6
Totally forgot about Webster. You are so right |
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Post by hewhowaits on Oct 19, 2022 12:38:00 GMT -6
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Post by ohioguy2 on Oct 19, 2022 15:03:24 GMT -6
It’s crazy to think there is an entire generation that has no idea what rec.arts.marching is. |
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Post by srv1084 on Oct 19, 2022 15:51:15 GMT -6
There are actually a few folks on here with New York connections. I won't call on them here, but I'm hoping they chime in on their own as they have a ton of knowledge of the NY band scene and its history. I will say that it fills me with sadness to see where they are now after growing up watching a lot of those programs and hearing about our New York neighbors' success on a national level. At one point they were held in such high regard that bands from New England started attending their New York state championships in Syracuse just so they could say they were competing with the best of the best.
One thing to note as well is that at one point there was a huge drum corps presence in New York, so I think it's safe to assume a lot of the influence in the marching band world came from that side of the activity. The Drum Corps Xperience website shows 317 total drum corps originating from the state of New York. By the 1990s, the activity started to die down in the area when the concept of community/local drum corps became a thing of the past. Most of them disappeared before the new millennium. Now there are just a few active all-age corps in the state.
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Post by Allohak on Oct 19, 2022 17:29:31 GMT -6
Not really one of the old power players, but the folks (directors/staff, students, and parents alike) from Victor are some of the most pleasant I've had the joy to interact with at regionals over the years
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Post by boahistorybuff on Oct 19, 2022 20:02:01 GMT -6
This is a good topic for further discussion. I dont have all the answers, but by all means if any of our New York members have some comments, please post.
The New York Field Band Conference is one of the oldest competitive marching band circuits in the country, dating back to the early 1970s. The drum corps scene was quite prevalent in upstate New York back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. This likely prompted many high school bands to adopt a corps style program. Back in the days when high school corps style bands emerged, they initially came from relatively local geographic regions. Examples include the San Jose area, Chicago area, Lexington KY, Nashville, east Tennesse/western North Carolina, Tampa/St Pete, Flint/Saginaw, Pittsburgh and Syracuse NY. From these areas, the competitive corps style programs spread to other regions during the course of the 70s and 80s.
Syracuse became a hot bed for the competitive corps style marching bands. West Genesee immediately emerged as a dominating force in the 70s. Cicero was strong in the 70s and then merged with North Syracuse in the early 1980s to become a huge power. Liverpool also emerged as a power in the 1980s. All three of these bands were from the Syracuse area. Arlington was also quite strong and from a little farther east in the state. And yes, in the 1990s, Webster from the Rochester area emerged.
These bands had very good and well renown staff, especially during the 1980s. In the 1980s the top three; West Genesee, Cicero North Syracuse and Liverpool did not participate in BOA regionals. I think the main reason was because of the distance and remember far fewer regionals occurred back then. Had they attended BOA regionals, they would have won several regionals. When these bands started attending Grand Nationals, yes they did really well. It was clear that these bands were among the best in the country. In fact, I think if West Genesee had attended Grand Nationals every year of the 1980s, they likely would have picked up a Grand National title.
In the 1990s, both Cicero North Syracuse and Liverpool had director and staffing changes which negatively affected their programs. West Genesee remained quite strong and then of course Webster emerged. Webster suffered some set backs in the 2000s. West Genesee remained strong well into the 2000s, but not as strong as previous decades. They also cut way back on long distance travel.
I think when looking at the bigger picture when it comes to New York bands, we have to look at the economic trends over the last several decades. It seems that a lot of the wealth in New York state is more concentrated in the New York City area. The smaller cities of upstate New York, which is where most of the once powerful marching bands were located have been suffering from population decline amid economic conditions that are not as strong as they once were. These things inevitably trickle into the school districts and the marching band programs. In many instances this can cause cuts to elementary music education. The marching bands are probably working with less funding, so they have leaner staffs and less money to travel. I remember back in the 1980s, West Genesee in particular had some really great staff, among the best in the business.
I have seen similar things happen to the once great bands from the Flint and Saginaw area of Michigan, although the economic downturn was far more dramatic in this area.
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Oct 20, 2022 3:10:38 GMT -6
I’ve been a part of these forums since high school back in the late 2000s. I try to keep a low profile on here, but I was born and raised in upstate NY, so I guess I HAVE to talk here  To better organize my thoughts, I’ll be sharing my thoughts in several posts. Please note that these are just my takeaways as someone who spent two decades living in the area and another decade observing from afar. I am by no means an expert. If anyone else has more details to round out my perspective, PLEASE share!!! Most of the biggest names in NY come from middle class, suburban areas in the Rust Belt. (None come from Long Island, though a couple small schools like Mineola have been finding great success locally in the past few years!) I'll post an outline of NY band geography shortly. The most storied groups from the 1960s-1990s found success from consistency: in their communities, in their staffs, and in the show styles appreciated by judges. So, when considering the downslide of these groups’ success, we can attribute this to: • Shrinking communities. The storied programs like CNS, Liverpool, and WG still have strong alumni support. But the most active alumni seem to be those who graduated at the height of these programs in the 60s-90s. The younger generations have been more likely to move away. These younger folks are the likeliest to have modern pageantry experience (eg, DCI, DCA, WGI, etc). Without these folks coming back, there’s less knowledge and less connections that would otherwise make these programs grow.* This also keeps school populations relatively small. The biggest bands are roughly 100-140 kids, with the average band probably somewhere 40-80 kids. I think Arlington and CNS might be the only “big names” that’d be AAAA. Most would be AA (a la Victor, WG, and Baldwinsville this fall). • Staff changes. Speaking of community support, most of these programs were successful because they retained the same folks for decades. But like boahistorybuff mentioned, staff changes have affected these programs. Another example: Bill Davern was the director of WG’s band from 1989-2000. During this time, WG won the only BOA regional ever won by a NY band and made Grand Nationals Finals three times. I won’t say that WG’s success declined simply because Davern stepped down, but surely that’s a factor. • Old school show styles. Aside from groups like Baldwinsville, Arlington, and Mineola—all of whom I believe have younger and/or DCI-affiliated staffs—most groups field shows that feel pretty dated. They rely mostly on marching traditional drill with few, if any, “produced” visual moments. Choreography for winds is often limited to pliés, passés, lunges, and forced arches. Music books are often stock shows that lack any real excitement or intrigue. Most groups lack staff with the know-how to produce or pace a modern-feeling show. (It doesn’t help that local judges typically don’t reward modern approaches like BOA judges do, and out of state judges brought in for championships typically refer to previous weeks of local results to make sure they’re not disrupting the expectations of how groups should place.) Long story short: NY communities are small and there isn’t a lot of new knowledge. The dynamics of these groups’ success are very delicate. Big changes (even good ones!) in small communities can damage a group’s culture. That being said, the largest groups keep me optimistic. There has been radical change in the competitive atmosphere at the top. Liverpool, CNS, West Genesee, and Baldwinsville have all taken turns beating each other at local shows this fall. Add Arlington to the mix and we may have a 2022 BOA regional finalist place 5th in the state! I hope that entices the other groups (looking at you, Liverpool) to take BOA more seriously. Honestly, the BOA regionals I attended as a high schooler changed my life. To see schools smaller than ours operate with such intensity, to pass by schools with twice as many sousaphones as us—to see Kiski, Central Crossing at their peak, Westminster at their peak, West Johnston at their peak, Norwin, Lassiter (even in their late stage), PCEP, the rise of Mason… it was a silly phenomenon, but a phenomenon all the less. It opened my eyes to what’s possible in this activity. There’s a special excitement in competing against against groups you’d otherwise never see, and it was even cooler to be one of very few schools from my entire state to have that opportunity. All I want is to see more NY programs give their kids that opportunity, too. It really is a positively life-changing experience, I promise |
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Post by boahistorybuff on Oct 20, 2022 3:17:43 GMT -6
I’ve been a part of these forums since high school back in the late 2000s. I try to keep a low profile on here, but I was born and raised in upstate NY, so I guess I HAVE to talk here To better organize my thoughts, I’ll be sharing my thoughts in several posts. Please note that these are just my takeaways as someone who spent two decades living in the area and another decade observing from afar. I am by no means an expert. If anyone else has more details to round out my perspective, PLEASE share!!! Most of the biggest names in NY come from middle class, suburban areas in the Rust Belt. (None come from Long Island, though a couple small schools like Mineola have been finding great success locally in the past few years!) I'll post an outline of NY band geography shortly. The most storied groups from the 1960s-1990s found success from consistency: in their communities, in their staffs, and in the show styles appreciated by judges. So, when considering the downslide of these groups’ success, we can attribute this to: • Shrinking communities. The storied programs like CNS, Liverpool, and WG still have strong alumni support. But the most active alumni seem to be those who graduated at the height of these programs in the 60s-90s. The younger generations have been more likely to move away. These younger folks are the likeliest to have modern pageantry experience (eg, DCI, DCA, WGI, etc). Without these folks coming back, there’s less knowledge and less connections that would otherwise make these programs grow.* This also keeps school populations relatively small. The biggest bands are roughly 100-140 kids, with the average band probably somewhere 40-80 kids. I think Arlington and CNS might be the only “big names” that’d be AAAA. Most would be AA (a la Victor, WG, and Baldwinsville this fall). • Staff changes. Speaking of community support, most of these programs were successful because they retained the same folks for decades. But like boahistorybuff mentioned, staff changes have affected these programs. Another example: Bill Davern was the director of WG’s band from 1989-2000. During this time, WG won the only BOA regional ever won by a NY band and made Grand Nationals Finals three times. I won’t say that WG’s success declined simply because Davern stepped down, but surely that’s a factor. • Old school show styles. Aside from groups like Baldwinsville, Arlington, and Mineola—all of whom I believe have younger and/or DCI-affiliated staffs—most groups field shows that feel pretty dated. They rely mostly on marching traditional drill with few, if any, “produced” visual moments. Choreography for winds is often limited to pliés, passés, lunges, and forced arches. Music books are often stock shows that lack any real excitement or intrigue. Most groups lack staff with the know-how to produce or pace a modern-feeling show. (It doesn’t help that local judges typically don’t reward modern approaches like BOA judges do, and out of state judges brought in for championships typically refer to previous weeks of local results to make sure they’re not disrupting the expectations of how groups should place.) Long story short: NY communities are small and there isn’t a lot of new knowledge. The dynamics of these groups’ success are very delicate. Big changes (even good ones!) in small communities can damage a group’s culture. That being said, the largest groups keep me optimistic. There has been radical change in the competitive atmosphere at the top. Liverpool, CNS, West Genesee, and Baldwinsville have all taken turns beating each other at local shows this fall. Add Arlington to the mix and we may have a 2022 BOA regional finalist place 5th in the state! I hope that entices the other groups (looking at you, Liverpool) to take BOA more seriously. Honestly, the BOA regionals I attended as a high schooler changed my life. To see schools smaller than ours operate with such intensity, to pass by schools with twice as many sousaphones as us—to see Kiski, Central Crossing at their peak, Westminster at their peak, West Johnston at their peak, Norwin, Lassiter (even in their late stage), PCEP, the rise of Mason… it was a silly phenomenon, but a phenomenon all the less. It opened my eyes to what’s possible in this activity. There’s a special excitement in competing against against groups you’d otherwise never see, and it was even cooler to be one of very few schools from my entire state to have that opportunity. All I want is to see more NY programs give their kids that opportunity, too. It really is a positively life-changing experience, I promise Nice description of the challenges that these New York bands have faced. |
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Oct 20, 2022 3:20:56 GMT -6
These younger folks are the likeliest to have modern pageantry experience (eg, DCI, DCA, WGI, etc). Without these folks coming back, there’s less knowledge and less connections that would otherwise make these programs grow.* *Speaking of those with modern pageantry experience: NY is not a great training ground for kids to make the top WGI or DCI groups. And, even if you have the talent, there aren’t many groups close by. For example, when I auditioned for DCI, the closest options were Cadets, Bluecoats, and Spartans. I ended up at Boston, which you think wouldn’t be bad—but all their camps were in Florida!! Thankfully, AirTran at that time offered roundtrip flights from Rochester to Tampa for $96, so it somehow worked out… but that was super lucky, AND it was contingent on me having the musical chops to get a contract. I was lucky to attend the NY school I attended! In the last 15 years, a handful of New Yorkers HAVE marched DCI groups like Crown, Madison, Bluecoats, Boston, Cavaliers, Cadets, Phantom, Blue Knights, Surf, Spartans, and 7th. Of course, there were once prominent DCA groups like the Empire Statesmen from Rochester, the Syracuse Brigadiers, and the Rochester Crusaders. Now there’s just the White Sabers from the Rochester area. I’ve never paid much attention to DCA to know much about their influence on the high school band scene, but I’ve heard that a lot of Rochester-area bands like Victor have had staff with ample DCA alumni. In either case… out of the very few of us who HAVE marched drum corps, very few are returning to teach. In my case, it was actually my dream to teach my alma mater, but they were uninterested in adjusting their educational approach. They still have the same music arranger they’ve used since the mid-70s, their visual caption head has been teaching since the late 80s; they have a formula for what works for them and they like to stick to it. These programs are small operations with minimal staff. I can understand the fear of making big changes, especially if there’s only one (young) person on staff who has the new information. As I’ve learned over the years, new information is half the battle. The other half is classroom management, pacing a rehearsal, knowing how much change a culture can really handle in one season… My teaching experiences have humbled me, to say the least In terms of indoor groups: I don’t know of any percussionists that have marched out of state, though I’m sure some have. There are maybe 10-15 high schools that compete in NSPC; Victor, Liverpool, and Hilton stick out as the biggest names to me, vacillating between Scholastic A and Scholastic Open classes. The only independent group I know was OCC (Onondaga Community College) Indoor based out of Syracuse. They existed ca. 2010. I think they were around for 1-3 seasons. (If anyone on here knows anything about them, let me know! I’ve always been curious about this group.) As for winter guard: a small handful have gone to spin with WGI groups like Blessed Sac, Amp… maybe Fusion? Alter Ego? Zydeco? At one time there was the Patriots winterguard from Rochester that did well in IW and IA… Empire was a one-and-done IW finalist in 2005… Spectrum from Southern NY in IO… Luminosa from Buffalo won IA in 2013, jumped to IW pretty quickly, and then kind of fizzled away… Brigadiers winterguard from Syracuse had a FANTASTIC resurgence ca. 2010 after a long absence, placing high in IA, then competing in IO for a couple years until they medaled in 2018 and went World in 2019. The pandemic seemed to take a huge toll on them, as they have since disbanded. (It’s also pretty hard to floor an Independent World guard without many high school feeder programs to train your incoming talent.) Thankfully, the scholastic scene has always had some great groups competing in MYCGC and NECGC. Currently, there’s Shenendehowa, CNS (known in WGI as “North Syracuse Central”), and Central Square in SO. SA features quite a few WGI regulars: Victor, Orchard Park, Jamestown, Arlington, Liverpool, New Hartford, Phoenix, Mohonasen, and East Syracuse-Minoa (ESM). Several of these groups have medaled in SA and SO; a couple have even competed in SW (most notably Shenendehowa). Unrelated: one of my favorite winter guard shows of all time was Cicero-North Syracuse’s 2009 show that won Scholastic A at WGI. It’s one of those perfectly paced shows that’s made to make you sob by the end. Feel free to search for it on a certain video streaming site |
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Post by boahistorybuff on Oct 20, 2022 3:22:27 GMT -6
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Post by boahistorybuff on Oct 20, 2022 3:36:15 GMT -6
In the vintage video thread, I have several videos of West Genesee from the 80s and 90s. Webster from the 90s, 1988 Liverpool and 1987 and 1988 Cicero North Syracuse. Here are a couple videos that highlight the era when West Genesee was at their peak in the 1980s and 1990s. As I said, in the 1980s West Genesee was consistently one of the best bands in the country and they had a very high quality staff and design team as did the other New York powers. As cinnamonpromenade said, things have changed a bit in the New York marching scene. |
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Oct 20, 2022 3:45:22 GMT -6
Like how we often group Texas bands by their metropolitan areas, so we can group New York bands.
In my eyes, there are five main regions:
1. Central New York (at the heart of which is Syracuse)
2. The Finger Lakes/Western New York (Rochester and Buffalo)
3. The Southern Tier (basically the entire NY/PA border)
4. The Hudson Valley (Albany and below)
5. Long Island
For some reason I felt it necessary to take three hours to comb through every BOA recap since 1985 and note every NY band’s participation in a competition, lol… so, here we go!!
1. Central New York (near Syracuse)
Auburn:
1990 - 21st, Morgantown, VA
Baldwinsville:
2004 - 12th, Pontiac, MI
2022 - 6th, Newark, DE
Central Square (Paul V. Moore):
2009 - 10th, Towson, MD
Cicero-North Syracuse:
1987 - 2nd, Grand Nationals Finals (AAA Class Champion, Best Brass/Winds, Best Percussion, GE Caption Winner)
1988 - 3rd, Grand Nationals Finals
1998 - 6th, Hempstead, NY
1999 - 7th, Hempstead, NY
2003 - 12th, Massillon, OH
2004 - 17th, Grand Nationals, Prelims Day 2 (34th overall)
2009 - 10th, West Chester, PA
2019 - 8th, College Park, MD
East Syracuse-Minoa:
2005 - 22th, Massillon, OH
Jordan-Elbridge:
1986 - 8th, Morgantown, VA
1987 - 10th, Morgantown, VA
2004 - 17th, Piscataway, NJ
2007 - 20th, Youngstown, OH
Liverpool:
1984 - 10th, Grand Nationals Finals
1987 - 5th, Grand Nationals Finals
1988 - 4th, Grand Nationals Finals
1989 - 12th, Grand Nationals Finals
1995 - 5th, Morgantown, VA
1996 - 4th, Bensalem, PA (AAA Class Champion)
1998 - 3rd, Hempstead, NY
1999 - 3rd, Hempstead, NY
2002 - 11th, Toledo, OH
2003 - 8th, Massillon, OH
2004 - 18th, St. Petersburg, FL
2007 - 11th, Youngstown, OH
Oswego:
1985 - 9th, Morgantown, VA
1987 - 3rd, Morgantown, VA (AA Class Champion)
2000 - 8th, Hempstead, NY
2004 - 12th, Piscataway, NJ
2006 - 19th, Towson, MD
2008 - 17th, Ypsilanti, MI
2010 - 15th, Towson, MD
West Genesee:
1985 - 3rd, Grand Nationals Finals (Open Class Champion, Best Coordinated Auxiliary)
1986 - 2nd, Grand Nationals Finals (Best Flags, Best Percussion)
1987 - 3rd, Grand Nationals Finals
1990 - 5th, Morgantown, VA (Tie for Music Caption Winner)
1990 - 4th, Grand Nationals Finals (Class AA Champion)
1991 - 7th, Grand Nationals Finals
1993 - 2nd, Morgantown, VA (Tie for GE Caption Winner)
1994 - 1st, Toledo, OH (AA Class Champion, Music Caption Winner, GE Caption Winner)
1995 - 5th, Toledo, OH (AA Class Champion)
1995 - 8th, Grand Nationals Finals
1997 - 4th, Morgantown, WV
1998 - 2nd, Hempstead, NY (AA Class Champion)
1999 - 8th, Indianapolis, IN
2000 - 4th, Morgantown, WV
2001 - 4th, Toledo, OH (Music Caption Winner)
2002 - 4th, Massillon, OH
2003 - 3rd, Youngstown, OH
2004 - 3rd, Piscataway, NJ (AAA Class Champion)
2005 - NA, Towson, MD (rained out)
2006 - 4th, Ypsilanti, MI
2007 - 6th, Youngstown, OH
2008 - 7th, Towson, MD
2009 - 8th, West Chester, PA
2010 - 11th, Pontiac, MI
2017 - 5th, Newark, DE
2019 - 8th, Toledo, OH
2022 - 10th, Newark, DE
2. The Finger Lakes/Western New York (Rochester and Buffalo)
East Irondequoit:
2006 - 18th, Towson, MD
Jamestown:
1987 - 20th, Grand Nationals Prelims
1988 - 26th, Grand Nationals Prelims
1991 - 7th, Morgantown, VA
1992 - 7th, Morgantown, VA
Lancaster:
2012 - 26th, Grand Nationals, Prelims Day 2 (56th overall)
2015 - 11th, Monroeville, PA
2017 - 8th, Canton, OH
Orchard Park:
1998 - 13th, Hempstead, NY
2002 - 12th, Massillon, OH
2004 - 20th, Piscataway, NJ
2018 - 18th, Canton, OH
Victor:
2001 - 19th, Massillon, OH
2002 - 10th, Hempstead, NY
2003 - 12th, Youngstown, OH
2004 - 15th, Youngstown, OH
2005 - 29th, Pontiac, MI
2014 - 8th, Dayton, OH
2015 - 4th, Bowling Green, OH (AA Class Champion)
2016 - 5th, Dayton, OH (AA Class Champion)
2017 - 16th, Toledo, OH
2018 - 13th, Newark, DE
2019 - 12th, Toledo, OH
2022 - 15th, Toledo, OH
Webster:
1993 - 4th, Morgantown, VA
1993 - 12th, Grand Nationals Finals
1994 - 2nd, Morgantown, VA (Music Caption Winner)
1995 - 4th, Toledo, OH
1996 - 3rd, Charleston, WV
1996 - 22nd, Grand Nationals Semifinals
1997 - 2nd, Morgantown, WV (AA Class Champion, Visual Caption Winner)
1997 - 10th, Grand Nationals Finals
1998 - 3rd, Morgantown, VA (Visual Caption Winner)
1999 - 7th, Toledo, OH
1999 - 15th, Grand Nationals Semifinals
2000 - 18th, Grand Nationals Prelims Day 2
2000 - 5th, Hempstead, NY
2001 - 5th, Hempstead, NY
2003 - 10th, Massillon, OH
2003 - 6th, Bridgeport, CT
2004 - 7th, Massillon, OH
2005 - 14th, Bowling Green, OH
2008 - 16th, Massillon, OH
2018 - 23rd, Bowling Green, OH
West Seneca West:
2003 - 17th, Massillon, OH
2004 - 16th, Massillon, OH
2004 - 21st, Piscataway, NJ
2014 - 14th, Monroeville, PA
2015 - 9th, Monroeville, PA
2016 - 14th, Monroeville, PA
3. The Southern Tier (basically the entire NY/PA border)
No bands from the Southern Tier have ever competed in BOA (unless if you consider Jamestown more Southern Tier than Western NY). These are typically VERY small schools with very small bands.
4. The Hudson Valley (Albany and below)
Arlington:
1996 - 7th, Bensalem, PA
2000 - 7th, Hempstead, NY (did not perform in finals)
2001 - 4th, Hempstead, NY
2004 - 2nd, Piscataway, NJ (Visual Caption Winner)
2004 - 22nd, Grand Nationals Semifinals
2007 - 8th, Hempstead, NY
2009 - 9th, West Chester, PA
2011 - 6th, Towson, MD
2018 - 8th, Newark, DE
5. Long Island
Brentwood:
2016 - 21st, Newark, DE
2017 - 17th, Newark, DE
Copiague:
2000 - 18th, Hempstead, NY
2001 - 14th, Hempstead, NY
Hicksville:
1998 - 21st, Hempstead, NY
2000 - 22nd, Hempstead, NY
2001 - 13th, Hempstead, NY
Huntington:
1997 - 13th, Piscataway, NJ
1999 - 15th, Hempstead, NY
2000 - 21st, Hempstead, NY
Sachem:
2000 - 16th, Hempstead, NY
2001 - 12th, Hempstead, NY
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Oct 20, 2022 3:50:04 GMT -6
And here’s the chronological history of NY bands’ participation in BOA… I may write more about NY bands soon, but if you don’t hear from me, it’s because I have my own band to teach these next few days. Big show for us this weekend! 1984: Liverpool - 10th, Grand Nationals Finals 1985: Oswego - 9th, Morgantown, VA West Genesee - 3rd, Grand Nationals Finals (Open Class Champion, Best Coordinated Auxiliary) 1986: Jordan-Elbridge - 8th, Morgantown, VA West Genesee - 2nd, Grand Nationals Finals (Best Flags, Best Percussion) 1987: Oswego - 3rd, Morgantown, VA (AA Class Champion) Jordan-Elbridge - 10th, Morgantown, VA Cicero-North Syracuse - 2nd, Grand Nationals Finals (AAA Class Champion, Best Brass/Winds, Best Percussion, GE Caption Winner) West Genesee - 3rd, Grand Nationals Finals Liverpool - 5th, Grand Nationals Finals Jamestown - 20th, Grand Nationals Prelims 1988: Cicero-North Syracuse - 3rd, Grand Nationals Finals Liverpool - 4th, Grand Nationals Finals Jamestown - 26th, Grand Nationals Prelims 1989: Liverpool - 12th, Grand Nationals Finals 1990: West Genesee - 5th, Morgantown, VA (Tie for Music Caption Winner) Auburn - 21st, Morgantown, VA West Genesee - 4th, Grand Nationals Finals (Class AA Champion) 1991: Jamestown - 7th, Morgantown, VA West Genesee - 7th, Grand Nationals Finals 1992: Jamestown - 7th, Morgantown, VA 1993: West Genesee - 2nd, Morgantown, VA (Tie for GE Caption Winner) Webster - 4th, Morgantown, VA Webster - 12th, Grand Nationals Finals 1994: West Genesee - 1st, Toledo, OH (AA Class Champion, Music Caption Winner, GE Caption Winner) Webster - 2nd, Morgantown, VA (Music Caption Winner) 1995: Webster - 4th, Toledo, OH West Genesee - 5th, Toledo, OH (AA Class Champion) Liverpool - 5th, Morgantown, VA West Genesee - 8th, Grand Nationals Finals 1996: Webster - 3rd, Charleston, WV Liverpool- 4th, Bensalem, PA (AAA Class Champion) Arlington - 7th, Bensalem, PA Webster - 22nd, Grand Nationals Semifinals 1997: Webster - 2nd, Morgantown, WV (Visual Caption Winner, AA Class Champion) West Genesee - 4th, Morgantown, WV Huntington - 13th, Piscataway, NJ Webster - 10th, Grand Nationals Finals 1998: Webster - 3rd, Morgantown, VA (Visual Caption Winner) West Genesee - 2nd, Hempstead, NY (AA Class Champion) Liverpool - 3rd, Hempstead, NY Cicero-North Syracuse - 6th, Hempstead, NY Orchard Park - 13th, Hempstead, NY Hicksville - 21st, Hempstead, NY 1999: Webster - 7th, Toledo, OH Liverpool - 3rd, Hempstead, NY Cicero-North Syracuse - 7th, Hempstead, NY Huntington - 15th, Hempstead, NY West Genesee - 8th, Indianapolis, IN Webster - 15th, Grand Nationals Semifinals 2000: Webster - 5th, Hempstead, NY Arlington - 7th, Hempstead, NY (did not perform in finals) Oswego - 8th, Hempstead, NY Sachem - 16th, Hempstead, NY Copiague - 18th, Hempstead, NY Huntington - 21st, Hempstead, NY Hicksville - 22nd, Hempstead, NY West Genesee - 4th, Morgantown, WV Webster - 18th, Grand Nationals Prelims Day 2 2001: West Genesee - 4th, Toledo, OH (Music Caption Winner) Arlington - 4th, Hempstead, NY Webster - 5th, Hempstead, NY Sachem - 12th, Hempstead, NY Hicksville - 13th, Hempstead, NY Copiague - 14th, Hempstead, NY Victor - 19th, Massillon, OH 2002: Liverpool - 11th, Toledo, OH West Genesee - 4th, Massillon, OH Orchard Park - 12th, Massillon, OH Victor - 10th, Hempstead, NY 2003: Liverpool - 8th, Massillon, OH Webster - 10th, Massillon, OH Cicero-North Syracuse - 12th, Massillon, OH West Seneca West - 17th, Massillon, OH West Genesee - 3rd, Youngstown, OH Victor - 12th, Youngstown, OH Webster - 6th, Bridgeport, CT 2004: Webster - 7th, Massillon, OH West Seneca West - 16th, Massillon, OH Baldwinsville - 12th, Pontiac, MI Victor - 15th, Youngstown, OH Arlington - 2nd, Piscataway, NJ (Visual Caption Winner) West Genesee - 3rd, Piscataway, NJ (AAA Class Champion) Oswego - 12th, Piscataway, NJ Jordan-Elbridge - 17th, Piscataway, NJ Orchard Park - 20th, Piscataway, NJ West Seneca West - 21st, Piscataway, NJ Liverpool - 18th, St. Petersburg, FL Cicero-North Syracuse - 17th, Grand Nationals, Prelims Day 2 (34th overall) Arlington 2004 - 22nd, Grand Nationals Semifinals 2005: Webster - 14th, Bowling Green, OH East Syracuse-Minoa - 22th, Massillon, OH West Genesee - NA, Towson, MD (rained out) Victor - 29th, Pontiac, MI 2006: West Genesee - 4th, Ypsilanti, MI East Irondequoit - 18th, Towson, MD Oswego - 19th, Towson, MD 2007: West Genesee - 6th, Youngstown, OH Liverpool - 11th, Youngstown, OH Jordan-Elbridge - 20th, Youngstown, OH Arlington - 8th, Hempstead, NY 2008: Webster - 16th, Massillon, OH Oswego - 17th, Ypsilanti, MI West Genesee - 7th, Towson, MD 2009: Central Square (Paul V. Moore) - 10th, Towson, MD West Genesee - 8th, West Chester, PA Arlington - 9th, West Chester, PA Cicero-North Syracuse - 10th, West Chester, PA 2010: West Genesee - 11th, Pontiac, MI Oswego - 15th, Towson, MD 2011: Arlington - 6th, Towson, MD 2012: Lancaster - 26th, Grand Nationals, Prelims Day 2 (56th overall) 2013: [no NY participation] 2014: West Seneca West - 14th, Monroeville, PA Victor - 8th, Dayton, OH 2015: West Seneca West - 9th, Monroeville, PA Lancaster - 11th, Monroeville, PA Victor - 4th, Bowling Green, OH (AA Class Champion) 2016: West Seneca West - 14th, Monroeville, PA Victor - 5th, Dayton, OH (AA Class Champion) Brentwood - 21st, Newark, DE 2017: Lancaster - 8th, Canton, OH Victor - 16th, Toledo, OH West Genesee - 5th, Newark, DE Brentwood - 17th, Newark, DE 2018: Webster - 23rd, Bowling Green, OH Orchard Park - 18th, Canton, OH Arlington - 8th, Newark, DE Victor - 13th, Newark, DE 2019: West Genesee - 8th, Toledo, OH Victor - 12th, Toledo, OH Cicero-North Syracuse - 8th, College Park, MD 2021: [no NY participation] 2022: Victor - 15th, Toledo, OH Baldwinsville - 6th, Newark, DE West Genesee - 10th, Newark, DE |
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Post by boahistorybuff on Oct 20, 2022 3:53:09 GMT -6
Like how we often group Texas bands by their metropolitan areas, so we can group New York bands. In my eyes, there are five main regions: 1. Central New York (at the heart of which is Syracuse) 2. The Finger Lakes/Western New York (Rochester and Buffalo) 3. The Southern Tier (basically the entire NY/PA border) 4. The Hudson Valley (Albany and below) 5. Long Island For some reason I felt it necessary to take three hours to comb through every BOA recap since 1985 and note every NY band’s participation in a competition, lol… so, here we go!! 1. Central New York (near Syracuse)Auburn: 1990 - 21st, Morgantown, VA Baldwinsville: 2004 - 12th, Pontiac, MI 2022 - 6th, Newark, DE Central Square (Paul V. Moore): 2009 - 10th, Towson, MD Cicero-North Syracuse: 1987 - 3rd, Grand Nationals Finals (AAA Class Champion, GE Caption Winner) 1988 - 3rd, Grand Nationals Finals 1998 - 6th, Hempstead, NY 1999 - 7th, Hempstead, NY 2003 - 12th, Massillon, OH 2004 - 17th, Grand Nationals, Prelims Day 2 (34th overall) 2009 - 10th, West Chester, PA 2019 - 8th, College Park, MD East Syracuse-Minoa: 2005 - 22th, Massillon, OH Jordan-Elbridge: 1986 - 8th, Morgantown, VA 1987 - 10th, Morgantown, VA 2004 - 17th, Piscataway, NJ 2007 - 20th, Youngstown, OH Liverpool: 1987 - 5th, Grand Nationals Finals 1988 - 4th, Grand Nationals Finals 1989 - 12th, Grand Nationals Finals 1995 - 5th, Morgantown, VA 1996 - 4th, Bensalem, PA (AAA Class Champion) 1998 - 3rd, Hempstead, NY 1999 - 3rd, Hempstead, NY 2002 - 11th, Toledo, OH 2003 - 8th, Massillon, OH 2004 - 18th, St. Petersburg, FL 2007 - 11th, Youngstown, OH Oswego: 1985 - 9th, Morgantown, VA 1987 - 3rd, Morgantown, VA (AA Class Champion) 2000 - 8th, Hempstead, NY 2004 - 12th, Piscataway, NJ 2006 - 19th, Towson, MD 2008 - 17th, Ypsilanti, MI 2010 - 15th, Towson, MD West Genesee: 1985 - 3rd, Grand Nationals Finals (Open Class Champion) 1986 - 2nd, Grand Nationals Finals 1987 - 4th, Grand Nationals Finals 1990 - 5th, Morgantown, VA (Tie for Music Caption Winner) 1990 - 4th, Grand Nationals Finals 1991 - 7th, Grand Nationals Finals 1993 - 2nd, Morgantown, VA (Tie for GE Caption Winner) 1994 - 1st, Toledo, OH (AA Class Champion, Music Caption Winner, GE Caption Winner) 1995 - 5th, Toledo, OH (AA Class Champion) 1995 - 8th, Grand Nationals Finals 1997 - 4th, Morgantown, WV 1998 - 2nd, Hempstead, NY (AA Class Champion) 1999 - 8th, Indianapolis, IN 2000 - 4th, Morgantown, WV 2001 - 4th, Toledo, OH (Music Caption Winner) 2002 - 4th, Massillon, OH 2003 - 3rd, Youngstown, OH 2004 - 3rd, Piscataway, NJ (AAA Class Champion) 2005 - NA, Towson, MD (rained out) 2006 - 4th, Ypsilanti, MI 2007 - 6th, Youngstown, OH 2008 - 7th, Towson, MD 2009 - 8th, West Chester, PA 2010 - 11th, Pontiac, MI 2017 - 5th, Newark, DE 2019 - 8th, Toledo, OH 2022 - 10th, Newark, DE 2. The Finger Lakes/Western New York (Rochester and Buffalo) East Irondequoit: 2006 - 18th, Towson, MD Jamestown: 1987 - 20th, Grand Nationals Prelims 1988 - 26th, Grand Nationals Prelims 1991 - 7th, Morgantown, VA 1992 - 7th, Morgantown, VA Lancaster: 2012 - 26th, Grand Nationals, Prelims Day 2 (56th overall) 2015 - 11th, Monroeville, PA 2017 - 8th, Canton, OH Orchard Park: 1998 - 13th, Hempstead, NY 2002 - 12th, Massillon, OH 2004 - 20th, Piscataway, NJ 2018 - 18th, Canton, OH Victor: 2001 - 19th, Massillon, OH 2002 - 10th, Hempstead, NY 2003 - 12th, Youngstown, OH 2004 - 15th, Youngstown, OH 2005 - 29th, Pontiac, MI 2014 - 8th, Dayton, OH 2015 - 4th, Bowling Green, OH (AA Class Champion) 2016 - 5th, Dayton, OH (AA Class Champion) 2017 - 16th, Toledo, OH 2018 - 13th, Newark, DE 2019 - 12th, Toledo, OH 2022 - 15th, Toledo, OH Webster: 1993 - 4th, Morgantown, VA 1993 - 12th, Grand Nationals Finals 1994 - 2nd, Morgantown, VA (Music Caption Winner) 1995 - 4th, Toledo, OH 1996 - 3rd, Charleston, WV 1996 - 22nd, Grand Nationals Semifinals 1997 - 2nd, Morgantown, WV (AA Class Champion, Visual Caption Winner) 1997 - 10th, Grand Nationals Finals 1998 - 3rd, Morgantown, VA (Visual Caption Winner) 1999 - 7th, Toledo, OH 1999 - 15th, Grand Nationals Semifinals 2000 - 5th, Hempstead, NY 2001 - 5th, Hempstead, NY 2003 - 10th, Massillon, OH 2003 - 6th, Bridgeport, CT 2004 - 7th, Massillon, OH 2005 - 14th, Bowling Green, OH 2008 - 16th, Massillon, OH 2018 - 23rd, Bowling Green, OH West Seneca West: 2003 - 17th, Massillon, OH 2004 - 16th, Massillon, OH 2004 - 21st, Piscataway, NJ 2014 - 14th, Monroeville, PA 2015 - 9th, Monroeville, PA 2016 - 14th, Monroeville, PA 3. The Southern Tier (basically the entire NY/PA border) No bands from the Southern Tier have ever competed in BOA (unless if you consider Jamestown more Southern Tier than Western NY). These are typically VERY small schools with very small bands. 4. The Hudson Valley (Albany and below)Arlington: 1996 - 7th, Bensalem, PA 2000 - 7th, Hempstead, NY (did not perform in finals) 2001 - 4th, Hempstead, NY 2004 - 2nd, Piscataway, NJ (Visual Caption Winner) 2004 - 22nd, Grand Nationals Semifinals 2007 - 8th, Hempstead, NY 2009 - 9th, West Chester, PA 2011 - 6th, Towson, MD 2018 - 8th, Newark, DE 5. Long Island Brentwood: 2016 - 21st, Newark, DE 2017 - 17th, Newark, DE Copiague: 2000 - 18th, Hempstead, NY 2001 - 14th, Hempstead, NY Hicksville: 1998 - 21st, Hempstead, NY 2000 - 22nd, Hempstead, NY 2001 - 13th, Hempstead, NY Huntington: 1997 - 13th, Piscataway, NJ 1999 - 15th, Hempstead, NY 2000 - 21st, Hempstead, NY Sachem: 2000 - 16th, Hempstead, NY 2001 - 12th, Hempstead, NY Impressive stats Just a couple corrections. Liverpool was also a GN Finalist in 1984, they placed 10th. They were the first NY band to make GN Finals. In 1987, Cicero North Syracuse was second behind Marian in GN Finals. They won the Class AAA Title, won best brass/winds, percussion and general effect (the visual ensemble judge cost them the GN Title). Also in 1987, West Genesee was third in GN Finals. Also, in 1985 West Genesee took the coordinated auxiliary award in GN Finals and in 1986 they took best flags and best percussion in GN Finals. And finally, in 1990, West Genesee won the GN Class AA Title (that was the last year at GN that the class champions were determined based on Finals results). |
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Oct 20, 2022 4:25:21 GMT -6
Impressive stats Just a couple corrections. Thank you for the corrections and supplemental info!! I just updated both posts! |
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Post by dbbandalum on Oct 20, 2022 14:16:08 GMT -6
Thank you for these wonderful explanations! I never knew NY had such a history in the marching arts. I would love to see more participation from New England bands in BOA in the future. It seems like that region is full of great bands that are deserving of more recognition. Trumbull, CT and Westfield, NJ for example. Trumbull is the only CT band to win a regional, right?
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Post by srv1084 on Oct 20, 2022 15:13:57 GMT -6
Thank you for these wonderful explanations! I never knew NY had such a history in the marching arts. I would love to see more participation from New England bands in BOA in the future. It seems like that region is full of great bands that are deserving of more recognition. Trumbull, CT and Westfield, NJ for example. Trumbull is the only CT band to win a regional, right? That's correct on Trumbull. Norwalk has come close a few times, mostly in the late 90s/early 2000s. They are one of the bands that would travel to NY to participate in their state championships in Syracuse. They tied for the championship one year, but West Genessee was still in its prime and nobody was going to take an outright championship away from them (just like nobody was going to take a CT championship away from Norwalk at the time). I believe the reign of consecutive state championships was equal for both. In general, they were the only band that could come in at the time and even compete with the New York bands given how strong they all were. Even Norwin and Piscataway would make the trip up for certain shows. By the way, you may know this and I'm just misinterpreting, but New York is not part of New England. I'm pretty sure our New York friends would throw up a little if they had to be lumped in with us. |
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Post by dbbandalum on Oct 20, 2022 15:27:51 GMT -6
Thank you for these wonderful explanations! I never knew NY had such a history in the marching arts. I would love to see more participation from New England bands in BOA in the future. It seems like that region is full of great bands that are deserving of more recognition. Trumbull, CT and Westfield, NJ for example. Trumbull is the only CT band to win a regional, right? That's correct on Trumbull. Norwalk has come close a few times, mostly in the late 90s/early 2000s. They are one of the bands that would travel to NY to participate in their state championships in Syracuse. They tied for the championship one year, but West Genessee was still in its prime and nobody was going to take an outright championship away from them (just like nobody was going to take a CT championship away from Norwalk at the time). I believe the reign of consecutive state championships was equal for both. In general, they were the only band that could come in at the time and even compete with the New York bands given how strong they all were. Even Norwin and Piscataway would make the trip up for certain shows. By the way, you may know this and I'm just misinterpreting, but New York is not part of New England. I'm pretty sure our New York friends would throw up a little if they had to be lumped in with us. You're right lol. I have a bad habit of referring to the Northeast as "New England" sometimes |
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