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Post by marimba11 on Nov 7, 2022 18:07:49 GMT -6
So what, his 100 member band (or so) made grand national finals and placed 4th in 1997 - till 08 not being a magnet school… Which is great, but look at BOA now and how many more bands are involved. BOA has changed...there's more bands, more money being thrown around. It's 2022, not 2008. I'm not saying there aren't good 2A bands. There's a bunch. Jenison, Norwin, Kiski, Argyle, Catawba, Grain Valley just to name some....what do you want them to do? Become conservatories and pick from the best of the best like Tarpon? That is an utterly unrealistic and unreasonable expectation. Where as Tarpon getting bumped up into 3A isn't outlandish, would work just like WGI does with great success, and again...would not negatively affect Tarpon in any way. I understand what you are saying, but there are two conversations happening, mostly since one person has changed the subject. On the first point no, it is technically not fair for Tarpon to be considered 2A if they are pulling from so many students across the county. However, I would still bet that even if they had not become a magnet school in 08, they would still be making GN finals today as they were then. And BOA has to pick a measure to make the determination, so existing school size it is. On the second point, is it fair for Tarpon to pull from across their county AT ALL?? Marian pulls students... and everyone will say that isn't a fair comparison, but private schools can pull whoever they want. Nobody is complaining about Marian. What if Tarpon was bad at band and struggled to make semis as a magnet school, would there still be an uprising about fairness?? I would argue a large 6A Texas school has a bigger advantage than a magnet school (For leadership, not band mind you) that pulls from a county.
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 7, 2022 18:16:43 GMT -6
Also, there is a reason the phrase "hard cases make bad law." Tarpon is one case. Just the administrative efforts to create and manage a magnet program cannot be easy, just as I say a 6A Texas school has more of an advantage.
Should we really switch everything, so Tarpon no longer wins 2A? Would Tarpon even care if they didn't win 2A? Would a band like Grain Valley care if they did instead if we realigned Tarpon to a higher class? Does Wando care if they ever place in class at grand nationals as a 4A school? No, they care about making finals. They care about where they stack up amongst EVERYONE else., as should be the case for the best and the worst band.
The classification game is just smoke and mirrors anyway.
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Post by paddy on Nov 7, 2022 18:19:33 GMT -6
I would still have a problem with any public school who is able to pull from a large population into a smaller school and compete against smaller population bases regardless of their success.
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Post by paddy on Nov 7, 2022 18:22:50 GMT -6
The classifications should be designed to provide comparison points for schools of like size to help them grow their students and programs.
If it is truly smoke and mirrors, then we have failed at providing meaningful value to 60% of the bands.
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Post by saturdaynightlights on Nov 7, 2022 18:25:04 GMT -6
I think the thing that makes me so curious about why it's a big deal is that while Tarpon may recruit (as does every other program to some extent, even if that's a middle school band night), they're not necessarily getting better students, they're just getting more, and more that want to do it. If that's the cost of getting kids involved in this, so be it.
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 7, 2022 18:26:01 GMT -6
The classifications should be designed to provide comparison points for schools of like size to help them grow their students and programs. If it is truly smoke and mirrors, then we have failed at providing meaningful value to 60% of the bands. . I am pretty sure every band is judged in prelims, so there is your comparison
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Post by bassoooon on Nov 7, 2022 19:13:17 GMT -6
Obviously the solution is to keep the class system as it is but then allow any band who seems better than the rest of their class to move up at the discretion of this tiny man named Steve who lives in a swivel chair perched on my shoulder and whispers things into my ear.
In other words, there isn't a way for anybody to calculate which class an oddity band like Tarpon objectively should be in. You can't crunch the numbers on this one, or on PCEP, or on MPLT, or exactly how beneficial or detrimental varying financial situations are, or the weather, commute time, or natural disasters. I know it's part of MFA's job (I don't actually know but I think it is) to make class distinctions as fair as possible, but once we decide that Tarpon should be classified based on the size of their performing arts department or on the combined enrollment of every school that contributes a member, don't we also have to do that for every other band? I don't know! A class system that divides strictly by school enrollment makes 95%-accurate assumptions about actual advantages that bands from larger schools have over those from smaller schools. I don't know whether it's a good idea to start trying to make exceptions to the rule every time we decide we don't like how good someone is.
My two-cent voice added to the cacophony.
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Post by srv1084 on Nov 7, 2022 20:07:28 GMT -6
I think we should count not only students who are enrolled in their high schools, but also the students who were zoned for that high school but elected to not attend their public schools in favor of private or vocational schools. It's only fair to include every student that had the opportunity to attend that school but didn't.
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Post by trumpet300 on Nov 7, 2022 20:25:05 GMT -6
Also, there is a reason the phrase "hard cases make bad law." Tarpon is one case. Just the administrative efforts to create and manage a magnet program cannot be easy, just as I say a 6A Texas school has more of an advantage. Should we really switch everything, so Tarpon no longer wins 2A? Would Tarpon even care if they didn't win 2A? Would a band like Grain Valley care if they did instead if we realigned Tarpon to a higher class? Does Wando care if they ever place in class at grand nationals as a 4A school? No, they care about making finals. They care about where they stack up amongst EVERYONE else., as should be the case for the best and the worst band. The classification game is just smoke and mirrors anyway. I see what you are saying but I'm not advocating for changing everything. I'm advocating for a change that affects Tarpon at this point in time....and if another group comes along in a similar fashion...apply it there too. I also believe you helped part of my argument. Would Tarpon care if they didn't win 2A? And the answer is probably not and that's the point right there...not only would they probably not care, but they would most likely win 3A anyway and still be making finals so where is the harm? I also don't think it's fair to assign a goal that you think each band should have. If a band is realistic and knows finals isn't in the cards on a given year, they should definitely have the opportunity to fight for the class title instead and shouldnt be faced with a single outlier who sweeps year in and year out. Sure, maybe wando doesnt look to win 4A, but 4A is also not dominated by one band every single year that band goes. It changes constantly, and the same can be said for 3A.
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Post by trumpet300 on Nov 7, 2022 20:29:23 GMT -6
Obviously the solution is to keep the class system as it is but then allow any band who seems better than the rest of their class to move up at the discretion of this tiny man named Steve who lives in a swivel chair perched on my shoulder and whispers things into my ear. In other words, there isn't a way for anybody to calculate which class an oddity band like Tarpon objectively should be in. You can't crunch the numbers on this one, or on PCEP, or on MPLT, or exactly how beneficial or detrimental varying financial situations are, or the weather, commute time, or natural disasters. I know it's part of MFA's job (I don't actually know but I think it is) to make class distinctions as fair as possible, but once we decide that Tarpon should be classified based on the size of their performing arts department or on the combined enrollment of every school that contributes a member, don't we also have to do that for every other band? I don't know! A class system that divides strictly by school enrollment makes 95%-accurate assumptions about actual advantages that bands from larger schools have over those from smaller schools. I don't know whether it's a good idea to start trying to make exceptions to the rule every time we decide we don't like how good someone is. My two-cent voice added to the cacophony. To your point, I'm not necessarily advocating for a change in the way we count enrollment...I'm advocating for a change that affects outliers in classes, specifically on the high end. If that means setting a standard that if an ensemble scores X amount a points and the gap is X amount of points or more, then that band should be bumped up. The one thing that would be difficult would be to consider this rule on the regional level or just if it happens at Nationals. That's a conversation on its own and I think basing it off nationals is the best case, but that's just me brainstorming right now.
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Post by ilikeguard on Nov 7, 2022 20:32:09 GMT -6
🔒
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Post by bandirectorman on Nov 7, 2022 20:36:46 GMT -6
Which is great, but look at BOA now and how many more bands are involved. BOA has changed...there's more bands, more money being thrown around. It's 2022, not 2008. I'm not saying there aren't good 2A bands. There's a bunch. Jenison, Norwin, Kiski, Argyle, Catawba, Grain Valley just to name some....what do you want them to do? Become conservatories and pick from the best of the best like Tarpon? That is an utterly unrealistic and unreasonable expectation. Where as Tarpon getting bumped up into 3A isn't outlandish, would work just like WGI does with great success, and again...would not negatively affect Tarpon in any way. I understand what you are saying, but there are two conversations happening, mostly since one person has changed the subject. On the first point no, it is technically not fair for Tarpon to be considered 2A if they are pulling from so many students across the county. However, I would still bet that even if they had not become a magnet school in 08, they would still be making GN finals today as they were then. And BOA has to pick a measure to make the determination, so existing school size it is. On the second point, is it fair for Tarpon to pull from across their county AT ALL?? Marian pulls students... and everyone will say that isn't a fair comparison, but private schools can pull whoever they want. Nobody is complaining about Marian. What if Tarpon was bad at band and struggled to make semis as a magnet school, would there still be an uprising about fairness?? I would argue a large 6A Texas school has a bigger advantage than a magnet school (For leadership, not band mind you) that pulls from a county. I think I'd be very careful about putting a bullseye on private high schools and how they draw in students. Tarpon Springs pulls the best of the best in the area (who have an interest in the arts) and that's just how it's set up. There are bands who cheat by combining high schools into single bands who compete & then others who are private high schools who have no choice but to either exist and admit students who otherwise would be trapped in public schools or close up shop. The biggest argument is currently against combined marching band numbers over unique situations like Tarpon or Marian Catholic for that matter.
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Post by thewho on Nov 7, 2022 20:45:22 GMT -6
Moved relevant posts into another thread already partially discussing this issue (albeit not gaining as traction as these).
Be civil and don't call other people weak.
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Post by ilikeguard on Nov 7, 2022 21:19:12 GMT -6
There are bands who cheat by combining high schools into single bands who compete Maybe I would see this argument if Lincoln-Way were winning super regionals, but being in the bottom half within a point of an AA band doesn’t really feel like an unfair advantage is at play to me
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Post by ilikeguard on Nov 7, 2022 21:20:21 GMT -6
I quoted that so poorly but I’m just a girl with fat thumbs and a phone screen
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 7, 2022 21:55:12 GMT -6
I quoted that so poorly but I’m just a girl with fat thumbs and a phone screen Lol 😆
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 7, 2022 21:59:02 GMT -6
Also, there is a reason the phrase "hard cases make bad law." Tarpon is one case. Just the administrative efforts to create and manage a magnet program cannot be easy, just as I say a 6A Texas school has more of an advantage. Should we really switch everything, so Tarpon no longer wins 2A? Would Tarpon even care if they didn't win 2A? Would a band like Grain Valley care if they did instead if we realigned Tarpon to a higher class? Does Wando care if they ever place in class at grand nationals as a 4A school? No, they care about making finals. They care about where they stack up amongst EVERYONE else., as should be the case for the best and the worst band. The classification game is just smoke and mirrors anyway. I see what you are saying but I'm not advocating for changing everything. I'm advocating for a change that affects Tarpon at this point in time....and if another group comes along in a similar fashion...apply it there too. I also believe you helped part of my argument. Would Tarpon care if they didn't win 2A? And the answer is probably not and that's the point right there...not only would they probably not care, but they would most likely win 3A anyway and still be making finals so where is the harm? I also don't think it's fair to assign a goal that you think each band should have. If a band is realistic and knows finals isn't in the cards on a given year, they should definitely have the opportunity to fight for the class title instead and shouldnt be faced with a single outlier who sweeps year in and year out. Sure, maybe wando doesnt look to win 4A, but 4A is also not dominated by one band every single year that band goes. It changes constantly, and the same can be said for 3A. Well, then essentially we are arguing whether a class title has value or not. I suppose value come from who you beat, but the title itself has no meaning. Everyone knows that usually it’s the 4A band that if they win 4A they (usually) have won prelims or semis or whatever the competition. But what value does say another band winning 2A have if tarpon gets moved up? Does that help the band that they WON their class? Can they go back to their admin and demand more money or something??? I mean idk 🤷♂️ it’s all speculation and situational
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Post by trumpet300 on Nov 7, 2022 22:06:41 GMT -6
I see what you are saying but I'm not advocating for changing everything. I'm advocating for a change that affects Tarpon at this point in time....and if another group comes along in a similar fashion...apply it there too. I also believe you helped part of my argument. Would Tarpon care if they didn't win 2A? And the answer is probably not and that's the point right there...not only would they probably not care, but they would most likely win 3A anyway and still be making finals so where is the harm? I also don't think it's fair to assign a goal that you think each band should have. If a band is realistic and knows finals isn't in the cards on a given year, they should definitely have the opportunity to fight for the class title instead and shouldnt be faced with a single outlier who sweeps year in and year out. Sure, maybe wando doesnt look to win 4A, but 4A is also not dominated by one band every single year that band goes. It changes constantly, and the same can be said for 3A. Well, then essentially we are arguing whether a class title has value or not. I suppose value come from who you beat, but the title itself has no meaning. Everyone knows that usually it’s the 4A band that if they win 4A they (usually) have won prelims or semis or whatever the competition. But what value does say another band winning 2A have if tarpon gets moved up? Does that help the band that they WON their class? Can they go back to their admin and demand more money or something??? I mean idk 🤷♂️ it’s all speculation and situational There is absolutely value in winning your class. The entire idea behind classes is competition amongst bands of a similar size/skill/funding etc. Working hard and winning a class should and does have a lot of meaning...put admin and money aside...working to be the best withing your scope of marching bands is incredible on its own. Thats why classes exist. If they served no purpose and carried no weight, we wouldn't discuss them, and they probably wouldn't exist at all.
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 7, 2022 22:13:04 GMT -6
Well, then essentially we are arguing whether a class title has value or not. I suppose value come from who you beat, but the title itself has no meaning. Everyone knows that usually it’s the 4A band that if they win 4A they (usually) have won prelims or semis or whatever the competition. But what value does say another band winning 2A have if tarpon gets moved up? Does that help the band that they WON their class? Can they go back to their admin and demand more money or something??? I mean idk 🤷♂️ it’s all speculation and situational There is absolutely value in winning your class. The entire idea behind classes is competition amongst bands of a similar size/skill/funding etc. Working hard and winning a class should and does have a lot of meaning...put admin and money aside...working to be the best withing your scope of marching bands is incredible on its own. Thats why classes exist. If they served no purpose and carried no weight, we wouldn't discuss them, and they probably wouldn't exist at all. I guess I disagree then… which is fine. I think it’s nice that it “can” give small bands some recognition especially at Grand Nats but everyone saying Tarpon shouldn’t get it I think is a bridge too far when they are just following the rules set out by BOA. And I personally think they are more than generous. And that’s probably where I will leave this 😊
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Post by trumpet300 on Nov 7, 2022 22:43:28 GMT -6
There is absolutely value in winning your class. The entire idea behind classes is competition amongst bands of a similar size/skill/funding etc. Working hard and winning a class should and does have a lot of meaning...put admin and money aside...working to be the best withing your scope of marching bands is incredible on its own. Thats why classes exist. If they served no purpose and carried no weight, we wouldn't discuss them, and they probably wouldn't exist at all. I guess I disagree then… which is fine. I think it’s nice that it “can” give small bands some recognition especially at Grand Nats but everyone saying Tarpon shouldn’t get it I think is a bridge too far when they are just following the rules set out by BOA. And I personally think they are more than generous. And that’s probably where I will leave this 😊 I'll end with this, I have nothing against Tarpon as a band AT ALL. They are amazing and I love them...I take issue with the "game" not the "players". But it's ok to disagree!!!
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Post by 4score on Nov 7, 2022 22:46:16 GMT -6
Not all schools have the opportunity to be a magnet or even use school or choice effectively. A school I am close to isn’t allowed to speak with students from a middle school unless they are a direct feeder, even though they are the only school in town that offers more than a band that plays a few sets at football games. So? If it is ok for one school to pull from 24k students to create an elite marching band, it should be ok for any school. My perspective is that each school that sets themselves apart at BOA events has unique things that contribute to their success. Many Texan programs have a fantastic vertical alignment from beginning band in Middle School to the top wind ensemble at the high school, and Tarpon takes essentially every student that is interested in being a part of a program like theirs, even if they're not specifically zoned for that school. Both work well, even if they are different approaches.
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Post by dbalash on Nov 8, 2022 2:27:10 GMT -6
Maybe I would see this argument if Lincoln-Way were winning super regionals, but being in the bottom half within a point of an AA band doesn’t really feel like an unfair advantage is at play to me Lincoln-Way hasn't had a show that's captivated me in like 10 years, but that's a topic for another thread...
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Nov 8, 2022 3:43:34 GMT -6
Lincoln-Way hasn't had a show that's captivated me in like 10 years, but that's a topic for another thread... Hey now, their 2019 show was FANTASTIC!! (EDIT: why can't I unnest this from Dan's quote #CryingEmoji)
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Post by hewhowaits on Nov 8, 2022 8:33:53 GMT -6
Hey now, their 2019 show was FANTASTIC!! (EDIT: why can't I unnest this from Dan's quote #CryingEmoji) It happens if you click in the wrong place or if you delete something out and end up in the wrong place. If you use BBCode, you can ensure that your new information is outside the quoted post.
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Post by boahistorybuff on Nov 8, 2022 9:15:50 GMT -6
Many years ago, the idea of a magnate school for the performing arts never crossed anyone's mind. That kind of thing did not exist. So yes, I think it needs to be addressed in the classification system in this day and era. Tarpon is pulling in students with more interest in performing arts and often an already stronger musical talent than what a typical Class AA school like Kiski or Jenison can pull into their marching band. It needs to be addressed.
The whole class representation thing has been an issue for a very long time. In 1991 they went to the prelims class format where each of the three classes performed as a separate panel and the top 12(14 in 1995) advanced to finals regardless of class. Prior to that, the top 12 and the top two in each class (if they were not part of the too 12) advanced to finals from prelims and the class champions were based on finals performance. Western HS Indiana did not like that change in 1991. In fact, they stopped competing in BOA for several years after. I think in 1996 when the Semi Finals format was introduced, they made a point of having the top scoring bands from each class be in Semi Finals with obviously the class champion getting to perform in exhibition and partaking in the finals retreat. Yes the four class system has complicated that. We now have high schools that have student enrollments much higher than most imagined 25, 30, 40 years ago. There is not really an easy way to solve this issue unless they allow one or two more A and AA bands in semi finals at the expense of the larger class bands. I say dont change finals. It should be the top 12 and any class champion that did not make finals performing in exhibition. Anything more than that makes finals way too long. Having two sets of finals would also take away a little bit of the magic that is Grand National Finals.
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Post by drummerboy on Nov 8, 2022 9:33:23 GMT -6
Many years ago, the idea of a magnate school for the performing arts never crossed anyone's mind. That kind of thing did not exist. So yes, I think it needs to be addressed in the classification system in this day and era. Tarpon is pulling in students with more interest in performing arts and often an already stronger musical talent than what a typical Class AA school like Kiski or Jenison can pull into their marching band. It needs to be addressed. The whole class representation thing has been an issue for a very long time. In 1991 they went to the prelims class format where each of the three classes performed as a separate panel and the top 12(14 in 1995) advanced to finals regardless of class. Prior to that, the top 12 and the top two in each class (if they were not part of the too 12) advanced to finals from prelims and the class champions were based on finals performance. Western HS Indiana did not like that change in 1991. In fact, they stopped competing in BOA for several years after. I think in 1996 when the Semi Finals format was introduced, they made a point of having the top scoring bands from each class be in Semi Finals with obviously the class champion getting to perform in exhibition and partaking in the finals retreat. Yes the four class system has complicated that. We now have high schools that have student enrollments much higher than most imagined 25, 30, 40 years ago. There is not really an easy way to solve this issue unless they allow one or two more A and AA bands in semi finals at the expense of the larger class bands. I say dont change finals. It should be the top 12 and any class champion that did not make finals performing in exhibition. Anything more than that makes finals way too long. Having two sets of finals would also take away a little bit of the magic that is Grand National Finals. I agree that finals should stay Top 12 regardless of class plus exhibitions for class champions not in Top 12. Where I would like to see a tweak, is Semi-Finals would be the top 10 from each panel (not top 11 as now) and the next 8 high scores regardless of panel. Plus the top 2 from each class in each panel (not already in top 10 from the panel) plus the next 2 from each class regardless of panel (not already in top 10s from panels). This might take away two larger bands to have a few more A or AA bands in semi's. ALso, I think since the cat is out of the bag on what class everyone is, the SEmi-Final performances should group bands by class so judging would be comparable against bands that are like class to get a better evaluation without throwing a Broken Arrow in between two AA bands since Semi-Finals crown the Class Champions. THis should work as one judging panel does all Semi's. Just a thought to tweak what is current.
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Post by Allohak on Nov 8, 2022 10:36:38 GMT -6
Two separate events, same weekend but different locations, each following 2-panel 2-day Super Regional format with the following tweaks to finals advancement.
15 band finals, top 2 from each class from each panel plus next from each class regardless of panel, plus next 5 regardless of class or panel.
A/AA finals: Panel 1 A1 Panel 1 A2 Panel 1 AA1 Panel 1 AA2 Panel 2 A1 Panel 2 A2 Panel 2 AA1 Panel 2 AA2 Next Overall A Next Overall AA Next Overall Next Overall Next Overall Next Overall Next Overall
AAA/AAAA finals: Panel 1 AAA1 Panel 1 AAA2 Panel 1 AAAA1 Panel 1 AAAA2 Panel 2 AAA1 Panel 2 AAA2 Panel 2 AAAA1 Panel 2 AAAA2 Next Overall AAA Next Overall AAAA Next Overall Next Overall Next Overall Next Overall Next Overall
A/AA champion in year X treated as AAA in year X+1 (next time attending, no benefitting from taking a year off to avoid the bigger groups) and subsequent years if they make AAA/AAAA finals
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Post by philodemus on Nov 8, 2022 11:06:11 GMT -6
I get why, but the two locations thing... I mean, we've had snow in Kentucky on the last weekend of October, and Nats is currently the second weekend of November. Unless you could A. Find another dome, or B. Have A/AA in Orlando or something...
And let's be under no illusions as to who gets the dome and who is shivering.
Now, suppose we A/AA into the new Titans dome in Nashville... that could work!
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Post by abtwitch on Nov 8, 2022 11:08:49 GMT -6
Two separate events, same weekend but different locations, each following 2-panel 2-day Super Regional format with the following tweaks to finals advancement. 15 band finals, top 2 from each class from each panel plus next from each class regardless of panel, plus next 5 regardless of class or panel. A/AA finals: Panel 1 A1 Panel 1 A2 Panel 1 AA1 Panel 1 AA2 Panel 2 A1 Panel 2 A2 Panel 2 AA1 Panel 2 AA2 Next Overall A Next Overall AA Next Overall Next Overall Next Overall Next Overall Next Overall AAA/AAAA finals: Panel 1 AAA1 Panel 1 AAA2 Panel 1 AAAA1 Panel 1 AAAA2 Panel 2 AAA1 Panel 2 AAA2 Panel 2 AAAA1 Panel 2 AAAA2 Next Overall AAA Next Overall AAAA Next Overall Next Overall Next Overall Next Overall Next Overall A/AA champion in year X treated as AAA in year X+1 (next time attending, no benefitting from taking a year off to avoid the bigger groups) and subsequent years if they make AAA/AAAA finals Gonna try this with 2021 and see what Semis would've been like... A/AA finals: Panel 1 A1 - Signal Mountain (TN) Panel 1 A2 - Archbishop Alter (OH) Panel 1 AA1 - Marian Catholic (IL) Panel 1 AA2 - Morton (IL) Panel 2 A1 - Murray (KY) Panel 2 A2 - Bourbon County (KY) Panel 2 AA1 - Norwin (PA) Panel 2 AA2 - Jenison (MI) Next Overall A - Estill County (KY) Next Overall AA - Miamisburg (OH) Next Overall - Lake Hamilton (AR) Next Overall - Greenfield Central (IN) Next Overall - Easley (SC) Next Overall - Anderson County (KY) Next Overall - Greendale (WI) AAA/AAAA finals: Panel 1 AAA1 - Dobyns-Bennett (TN) Panel 1 AAA2 - Blue Springs (MO) Panel 1 AAAA1 - Broken Arrow (OK) Panel 1 AAAA2 - Flower Mound (TX) Panel 2 AAA1 - Franklin (TN) Panel 2 AAA2 - Cleveland (NC) Panel 2 AAAA1 - Carmel (IN) Panel 2 AAAA2 - Avon (IN) Next Overall AAA - Castle (IN) Next Overall AAAA - The Woodlands (TX) Next Overall - Marcus (TX) Next Overall - Claudia Taylor Johnson (TX) Next Overall - Ronald Reagan (TX) Next Overall - Vista Ridge (TX) Next Overall - Wando (SC) My first reaction is that AAA/AAAA seems bare. While every finalist did make the cut, it's barely doing so which could be a problem on years where the cutoff for finals is tight.
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Post by ohioguy2 on Nov 8, 2022 11:23:17 GMT -6
There was an idea floating around a couple years ago (maybe Daniel Montoya?) that involved being able to host A/AA and AAA/AAAA type events the same weekend without really changing a whole lot. I think it went something like this:
Thursday
All day starting at 8:00 am - A/AA Prelims Evening - A/AA Prelim awards, announce class awards and top 12 finalists (maybe top 4 in each class and next 4 overall?)
Friday
8:00-6:00 or so - AAA/AAAA Prelims (there are fewer groups in those classes) 6:00 - AAA/AAAA Prelim awards, announce class awards and top 24 semifinalists (top 4 in each class and next 16 overall?) 8:00 - A/AA Finals, do the full retreat just like Saturday night, top 6 make semifinals as well
Saturday 8:00 Semifinals begin (no more 6:15 bands) Top 24 AAA/AAAA go first since they had Friday night off, top 6 A/AA are the last 6 since they were on late Friday 5:00 Top 12 announced 8:00 Finals like always
This system gives more A/AA groups a chance to play multiple times, eliminates the crack of dawn semifinals, and still allows for a group like Tarpon to make the big Saturday night show (they would actually perform 4 times).
Using 2021 prelim scores, this is how everything would have shook out, which is a hypothetical since things would have been different with judging:
Class A/AA Finalists
Norwin (AA-1) Marian Catholic (AA-2) Jenison (AA-3) Murray (A-1) Miamisburg (AA-4) Lake Hamilton (Next 4) Morton (Next 4) Greenfield Central (Next 4) Easley (Next 4) Bourbon Co (A-2) Signal Mountain (A-3) Archbishop Alter (A-4)
Class AAA/AAAA Semifinalists
Broken Arrow Carmel Avon The Woodlands Flower Mound Marcus CTJ Reagan Vista Ridge Dobyns-Bennett (AAA-1) Wando Blue Springs (AAA-2) Fishers Mason Round Rock Brownsburg Castle (AAA-3) Mustang Franklin (AAA-4) Centerville O'Fallon Homestead Cleveland Rosemount Plus top 6 from A/AA
So under this idea, PCEP and Rockford would have missed who made it. You could always do 26 and 4 for semis (or 27/3) if that was a concern.
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