|
|
Post by bigtrombone on Dec 2, 2022 9:19:42 GMT -6
Well since it's the offseason, I decided to make this post for a bit of fun. I always love these hypothetical scenarios and I always like to see different takes on these scenarios.
I'll start it off. I think the biggest What if? recently would be what if the 2020 season hadn't been canceled? This one is interesting especially with the context of the 2021 season where a bunch of bands pushed their 2020 production to 2021. There are a couple scenarios in my mind that always stick out of what could have happened in that season.
- How would Cedar Ridge and Hendrickson have fared at St. Louis?
- How well would Tarpon Springs have done at San Antonio?
- Would Vista Ridge and Ronald Reagan have had a better placement at Grand Nationals?
- Assuming "Edge of Eternity" was supposed to be Broken Arrow's 2020 production, would it have won Grand Nationals in a similar fashion to 2021?
These are just a few that came to my mind. I'm curious to see others scenarios. It can range from a variety of things such as if a certain band attended Grand Nationals on a certain year or if a different band won Grand Nationals on a given year to if someone attended a regional that they would later drop.
|
|
|
|
Post by statechamp1239 on Dec 2, 2022 14:50:08 GMT -6
What if Cedar Ridge and Seven Lakes came to Nationals. They were planning to go until problems arise.
- Seven Lakes beat Henderickson in San Antonio so they could placed in 15th-10th range and Cedar Ridge for sure would be in finals.
My Prediction:
1. Carmel
2. Avon
3. Cedar Ridge
4. Broken Arrow
5. William Mason
|
|
|
|
Post by boahistorybuff on Dec 2, 2022 18:00:10 GMT -6
What if Carmel never had a competitive marching band?
Then Ronald Reagan would have a Grand National Title under their belt and Broken Arrow and Avon would both have 6 GN titles.
|
|
|
|
Post by oldarmybandguy on Dec 3, 2022 13:34:07 GMT -6
What if James Logan made the trip to GN I’m the late 90s or early 00s. The only perennial California power that made the trip in that era was Etiwanda-but Logan routinely beat them in CA circuits. Would love to know if they would have made finals and/or placed higher than 8th which was the pinnacle for a CA band.
|
|
|
|
Post by boahistorybuff on Dec 3, 2022 16:14:19 GMT -6
What if DCI never formed and the VFW and American Legion were still the governing bodies of drum corps. Marching band shows would likely be much more traditional and/or military on style.
|
|
|
|
Post by Subito Fortissimo on Dec 3, 2022 19:57:46 GMT -6
What if DCI never formed and the VFW and American Legion were still the governing bodies of drum corps. Marching band shows would likely be much more traditional and/or military on style. I feel like if that had been the case high school marching band would have evolved on it's own without the influence of drum corps. I also think drum corps on a large competitive scale like we know it as now would no longer exist. The downside for high school band beyond show design is that so many of today's top designers and teachers cut their teeth in drum corps. Without groups like Blue Devils, Star of Indiana and Carolina Crown becoming what they became, much less existing at all, there would be so many well known designers and band directors who likely would have never followed that path. |
|
|
|
Post by Samuel Culper on Dec 5, 2022 8:45:00 GMT -6
What if the Texas bands that went to GN is '21 went in '22 instead?
|
|
|
|
Post by vidal28rdg on Dec 6, 2022 5:23:00 GMT -6
What if the Texas bands that went to GN is '21 went in '22 instead? Vista would contend for top half with Tarpon, BA and WM. FloMo and Marcus would drop to the lower half, around the 9-11 range, CTJ would be right around 8th. Reagan and TWHS are contending for medalist spots. DB drops from top half, Castle gets pushed out, along with many of the lower half 2022 finalists. It’d probably be the most stacked GN finals lineup ever haha. I forget Round Rock had a really great rebound season this year and they went in 2021, you might have to make a tough choice between Marcus and Round Rock for the finalist bubble👀 one of them might miss out! let’s also remember there wouldn’t be an abundance of cleaning happening for many of the new 6A Texas groups when they have a BOASA contest, UIL state, and Grand Nats all within the span of the week, maybe in this hypothetical more bands skip either State or BOASA, but I’m just keeping it to the products every band put out this year and their congested competition schedules that would be lol |
|
|
|
Post by dbalash on Dec 6, 2022 7:02:44 GMT -6
What if Indianapolis hadn't decided to build a dome without the knowledge that they might someday have a tenant for it?
What if the Astrodome, built in the 1960's, had been such a massive failure that cities decided not to build domes, or eventually retractable roof stadiums?
|
|
bandisjoy
Senior Member
Update Status loading...
Posts: 67
|
Post by bandisjoy on Dec 6, 2022 7:20:56 GMT -6
What if Indianapolis hadn't decided to build a dome without the knowledge that they might someday have a tenant for it? The art gives up on the idea of requiring domed stadiums for large events and uses open-air stadiums only. The Personal Marching Bubble device is invented as a climate-controlled self-contained all-weather vehicle for individual performers. Many advances are made computer-controlled customizable skins, amplification devices, and other unique audio/visual technologies are developed. There are now only four recognized marching bands that compete at this level due to the cost and complexity (you all can decide who they are), but the performances are unmatched. All other bands have shrunk in size and instrumentation to perform in gymnasiums at even the smallest of schools. Astonishingly, the greatness of what can be achieved while limited to marching harmonicas, kazoos, and slide whistles in addition to pit kalimbas and castanets was never before appreciated! |
|
|
|
Post by paddy on Dec 6, 2022 8:02:01 GMT -6
What if Indianapolis hadn't decided to build a dome without the knowledge that they might someday have a tenant for it? The art gives up on the idea of requiring domed stadiums for large events and uses open-air stadiums only. The Personal Marching Bubble device is invented as a climate-controlled self-contained all-weather vehicle for individual performers. Many advances are made computer-controlled customizable skins, amplification devices, and other unique audio/visual technologies are developed. There are now only four recognized marching bands that compete at this level due to the cost and complexity (you all can decide who they are), but the performances are unmatched. All other bands have shrunk in size and instrumentation to perform in gymnasiums at even the smallest of schools. Astonishingly, the greatness of what can be achieved while limited to marching harmonicas, kazoos, and slide whistles in addition to pit kalimbas and castanets was never before appreciated! While this is incredibly out there, I wouldn't be surprised to see some schools that struggle with enrollment and ensemble size transition to the Winds arena as a way to continue competition. |
|
|
|
Post by statechamp1239 on Dec 8, 2022 20:09:26 GMT -6
What If Lassiter never went up Northeast for Regionals?
South Brunswick (NJ) would have won the Hempfield Regional in 2007 and Bridgewater-Raritan (NJ) would have won the Townson Regional in 2013 and Norwin would had won the 2009 West Chester Regional and have 30 Regional wins.
Lassiter was a big cuck for us NJ band back then.
|
|
|
|
Post by cybrunette on Feb 23, 2023 17:36:52 GMT -6
What if a shows length had to be a minimum of 15 min?
|
|
|
|
Post by allthingschaotic on Feb 23, 2023 19:10:26 GMT -6
What if a shows length had to be a minimum of 15 min? I would have quit marching band after my freshman year. |
|
|
|
Post by hawknate14 on Feb 23, 2023 20:08:18 GMT -6
What if a shows length had to be a minimum of 15 min? I would have quit marching band after my freshman year. Marching Band would have died out of popularity in favor of Indoor winds, indoor percussion, and winter guard. |
|
|
|
Post by Subito Fortissimo on Feb 23, 2023 21:15:05 GMT -6
What if a shows length had to be a minimum of 15 min? The mid-show concert piece likely never would have fallen out of favor as that would allow for a few minutes with minimal visual content needing to be learned and cleaned. It would also probably lead to more bands doing modified shows or game only "pep" shows for football halftime as a 15 minute long show would be problematic for set up and tear down even in places that have a 20 minute halftime, much less places where halftime itself is 15 minutes. I don't think we would see halftime being extended because the band wants to do a longer show. |
|
|
|
Post by hawknate14 on Feb 23, 2023 21:48:23 GMT -6
What if a shows length had to be a minimum of 15 min? The mid-show concert piece likely never would have fallen out of favor as that would allow for a few minutes with minimal visual content needing to be learned and cleaned. It would also probably lead to more bands doing modified shows or game only "pep" shows for football halftime as a 15 minute long show would be problematic for set up and tear down even in places that have a 20 minute halftime, much less places where halftime itself is 15 minutes. I don't think we would see halftime being extended because the band wants to do a longer show. . Good point about the concert section |
|
|
|
Post by cybrunette on Mar 17, 2023 10:32:32 GMT -6
What if BOA & even state or other regional based circuits based their class sizes on skill, technicality, & show difficulty (A, Open, National) like WGI rather than band / school sizes?
Would that make the competition stronger? Would that also give pushes / motivation that might be needed for bands to break certain barriers they're stuck in?
|
|
|
|
Post by principalagent on Mar 17, 2023 15:47:40 GMT -6
What if BOA & even state or other regional based circuits based their class sizes on skill, technicality, & show difficulty (A, Open, National) like WGI rather than band / school sizes? Would that make the competition stronger? Would that also give pushes / motivation that might be needed for bands to break certain barriers they're stuck in? For a variety of pedagogical reasons, I don’t think state marching circuits should make that kind of call. Especially in high participation state marching circuits or ones particularly tied to other extracurricular activities. I think it would be more okay in BOA but it would be exceedingly difficult. The massive classification shifts in WGI guard and percussion this year show that this is far from a science to really figure out difficulty and skill and ability. And with band, you generally have fewer opportunities to really understand a show during a season. There’s a lot of opportunity for designers and directors to game the system. Not everyone will play up even when they should (see: ISSMA, which really kinda speaks to the reasons I stated in the paragraph above). Shows often aren’t quite complete until very late in September or even into halfway into October. There are generally fewer competitions for bands in the season—especially within any given circuit—so fewer times for a classification committee to get a good read on where a band is and may go. Also, jumping or dropping classes with just two or three weeks left to compete anyway—which may just be one competition—would really jar both students and directors in a way they might not be able to really work through on short notice. |
|
|
|
Post by philodemus on Mar 18, 2023 5:59:48 GMT -6
Instituting a WGI style classification system for marching band would present a variety of practical problems, but I think the single biggest reason you don’t see it done outdoors is because size plays so much more of a role than it does inside.
The variance between a small winter guard and a large winter guard is not nearly so great as the variance between a tiny and gigantic marching band, and doesn’t impact effect in the same way.
|
|
|
|
Post by ilikeguard on Mar 18, 2023 19:27:09 GMT -6
Instituting a WGI style classification system for marching band would present a variety of practical problems, but I think the single biggest reason you don’t see it done outdoors is because size plays so much more of a role than it does inside. The variance between a small winter guard and a large winter guard is not nearly so great as the variance between a tiny and gigantic marching band, and doesn’t impact effect in the same way. I love that you bring this up. Class A winter guards in Texas are a fantastic example of what you’re describing. The majority of BOA San Antonio finalists are in the A class, while several of the Scholastic Open groups are either out of BOA finals or have very little presence in the fall compared to their counterparts. They don’t have ensemble size on their side when they’re all about the same, so real technical skill is exposed - and then the small guard dominates anyways (Friendswood’s tiny but mighty team). I think WGI winds has started to answer the question of “what if we used WGI-style classification for marching band?” IMO, the answer is pretty much the same: it isn’t necessarily band size, but pool size that matters, and it ends up working pretty much exactly like BOA style classification. Avon HS has hundreds of performers to choose from for their Winds ensemble. They have the luxury of cutting a student who isn’t meeting expectations and immediately replacing them with an equally talented alternate. Little 1A Hollister HS, meanwhile, doesn’t have a wealth of alternates ready to jump in at any given moment. It helps that they’re competing in different classes, but a huge part of the reason Avon is in world class is BECAUSE of the pool size. Of course there are exceptions - Miamisburg’s guard comes to mind - but generally, school size overall determines the pool size, and therefore the ratio of highly skilled performers. I think we see the disparity much less in indoor than on the field just because of the size cap, as said above. I think there are definitely cases to be made for giving bands the ability to “class up” in BOA, but those cases are fairly rare, and otherwise things probably wouldn’t change too much for everyone else. |
|
riot
Senior Member
Posts: 63
Member is Online
|
Post by riot on Mar 20, 2023 7:54:41 GMT -6
Here's a really odd "what if".
What if there were indoor marching competitions with 15-20 horns/woodwinds sized shows on basketball courts?
|
|
|
|
Post by hewhowaits on Mar 20, 2023 9:18:53 GMT -6
Here's a really odd "what if". What if there were indoor marching competitions with 15-20 horns/woodwinds sized shows on basketball courts? A Texas band would win the music caption. A non-Texas band would win visual. GE likely a toss-up. |
|
|
|
Post by paddy on Mar 20, 2023 9:20:10 GMT -6
Here's a really odd "what if". What if there were indoor marching competitions with 15-20 horns/woodwinds sized shows on basketball courts? Yeah, not sure how that is odd or a "what if" seeing as there were literally 11 shows similar to that last weekend at Avon for the Indiana Winds State Championship. Now most groups have more like 30-40 kids, but it is happening. |
|
|
|
Post by paddy on Mar 20, 2023 9:24:12 GMT -6
Here's a really odd "what if". What if there were indoor marching competitions with 15-20 horns/woodwinds sized shows on basketball courts? A Texas band would win the music caption. A non-Texas band would win visual. GE likely a toss-up. Texas band lost by nearly 5 to an Indiana band last year at 2022 WGI World championship and the Indiana band swept all captions. |
|
|
|
Post by thewho on Mar 20, 2023 9:50:24 GMT -6
Here's a really odd "what if". What if there were indoor marching competitions with 15-20 horns/woodwinds sized shows on basketball courts? We already have that (to a minor degree) in WGI Winds. I really don't agree with the judging rubric WGI puts out for their show, but it does exist. I'd encourage you to check out some of JMBA (Japanese Marching Band Association) shows. They take place within a gymnastics center, so the field isn't exactly as restricted as your proposal, but it is significantly smaller than a football field. JMBA's rubric mirrors BOA to a pretty close degree- in fact, I'd say it comes pretty close to UIL's demand while still rewarding creativity/GE like BOA. Because the judges are up (much) closer to the band, easier acoustics to adjust to, and the insane Japanese standards, the programs that compete have some incredibly insane shows. Imagine Hebron (for the most part) x15 in the large band class. I also find that drill is still emphasized heavily- think the late '00s/early '10s aesthetic where designers figured how to match significantly complex visual content with the music. Many of these shows actually tend to contain less body choreography from the band and instead have some absolutely bonkers jazz-running in shows. I'm not sure whether it's because of Japanese conformity standards (75% sure of this) or whether it's harder to hide in the center (25% sure), but that's their thing. Not to mention, some of the props move so quickly from the get-go! BOA props can be pretty heavy and wieldly so most often just sit in one spot, but JMBA shows don't have to account for the grass/turf factor so the props just need one little push and it will fly across the floor at 25 mph (over-exaggerating here, but it really is noticeable). The shows can be very easily found with searching for "JMBA" in YouTube. A few starts (will edit with links): JMBA's official YouTube channelShonandai White Shooting Stars band's official YouTubeOarai High School's YouTube channelSoka Renaissance and Himawari Elementary 2020Yokohama Scouts Drum and Bugle Corps's official YouTube channelAimachi Marching Band's official YouTube channelNishihara 2005The almighty JMBA classic of Nishihara 2001There's also Kyoto Tachibana that performed in the Rose Parade a while back, but for the reasons of this post, isn't relevant (They compete in another association that's more parade-based). If you'd like more info, there's a JMBA thread I created about 4 years ago when I was still bumming with my parents and had way too much time on my hands. I unfortunately had not watched the last few years as I (begrudgingly) became an adult, so I can't really comment on the current state of JMBA so far. |
|
riot
Senior Member
Posts: 63
Member is Online
|
Post by riot on Mar 20, 2023 10:26:27 GMT -6
Here's a really odd "what if". What if there were indoor marching competitions with 15-20 horns/woodwinds sized shows on basketball courts? Yeah, not sure how that is odd or a "what if" seeing as there were literally 11 shows similar to that last weekend at Avon for the Indiana Winds State Championship. Now most groups have more like 30-40 kids, but it is happening. Oh, I didn't realize this was a thing that already happened. |
|
|
|
Post by principalagent on Mar 20, 2023 11:42:08 GMT -6
A Texas band would win the music caption. A non-Texas band would win visual. GE likely a toss-up. Texas band lost by nearly 5 to an Indiana band last year at 2022 WGI World championship and the Indiana band swept all captions. Fairleigh Dickinson and struggling Blue Bloods aside, the Texas band was an autobid from a lower-mid major conference and the Indiana band was literally Duke. A very disingenuous comparison. |
|
|
|
Post by paddy on Mar 20, 2023 12:19:34 GMT -6
Texas band lost by nearly 5 to an Indiana band last year at 2022 WGI World championship and the Indiana band swept all captions. Fairleigh Dickinson and struggling Blue Bloods aside, the Texas band was an autobid from a lower-mid major conference and the Indiana band was literally Duke. A very disingenuous comparison. You play who is scheduled. Results were what they were. |
|
|
|
Post by paddy on Mar 20, 2023 12:30:12 GMT -6
Yeah, not sure how that is odd or a "what if" seeing as there were literally 11 shows similar to that last weekend at Avon for the Indiana Winds State Championship. Now most groups have more like 30-40 kids, but it is happening. Oh, I didn't realize this was a thing that already happened. It is relatively new as it started in 2015 and isn’t widely participated in. Many of the Indiana groups are close to the Indy area (Avon, Greenfield Central , Ben Davis, Westfield, Kokomo, Elevate Independent) but there are a few in the southwest (OV, Clay City, Washington) and 2 up north (Woodlan and Lake Central). In the past Decatur Central , Richmond, Plymouth and a few others have had groups. Here is a link to the 41 groups heading to Dayton: www.wgi.org/events-list-units/?eventid=1017&showid=2766&type=Winds&access=userIt is a pretty fun activity. There is some really cool music and movement going on. I know some directors aren’t fond of the activity, but for me the positives far outweigh the negatives. |
|
