Will We Ever See A 99?

[cybrunette]

Who do we believe has the best chance at breaking a 99 in BOA? How long before we see it? How hype will it be? 

[hawknate14]

I belive eventually we see a 99, not sure when or who, but I think we do eventually see it.  

[boahistorybuff]

My money will be on a Texas band at Grand Nationals sometime this decade; Hebron or The Woodlands are my top two picks.

[supersound]

If Hebron pulled a 97.85 with a 17.90 in individual visual then I think a 99 is within the realm of possibility.

Broken Arrow pulled out a 98 with an 18.90 in music. Granted 18.90 is a ridiculously good score, but we’ve seen bands put up higher in that category.

With the two highest scores both having room for improvement, I can safely say a 99 while challenging isn’t impossible.

[vidal28rdg]

I think if we get a 98.5 from anyone that’s already ridiculous👀 probably the main issue is the broadness of the captions that make it both easy and hard in a way for schools to get points. On one hand, bands can get even more distance from their competitors with those fine margin captions like brass, colorguard, percussion, etc. Maybe it happens if you go with a DCI-type judging panel where that kind of scoring benefits the strengths of bands that are incredibly well-rounded, on the other, maybe there’s too much competitions in all the subcaptions where it makes it even more difficult, I’m just realizing how ridiculously tough it would be for judges, specifically the “Visual Analysis/proficiency” and “Music Analysis” captions would be for those judges. Let alone scoring for guard, percussion, and brass for a GN-sized event!! BOA sheets I feel might be too vague for it atm where tenths and half-pointsget taken off more easily than the margins than the DCI-style scoring does.

[hewhowaits]

Feb 1, 2023 23:21:57 GMT -6 boahistorybuff said:

My money will be on a Texas band at Grand Nationals sometime this decade; Hebron or The Woodlands are my top two picks.

After placing third at SASR and finishing second at the UIL 6A SMBC.

[principalagent]

I actually think it’s time to recalibrate the sheets. If a band is at 98, that means the judges will soon run out of room because the standard is only getting higher top to bottom. Rework sheets and expectations such that the GN winner in 202x would land around a 93, then let things rise again until it’s time to recalibrate again.

[marimba11]

I think it is certainly possible. Remember in 2014 when BD got a 99 something as well a perfect score in some caption (I can't remember which one), and everyone was like "OMG how is it possible?!" "Is BD Perfect?"

No, just remember scores are comparative to other bands. So hypothetically if Hebron is two points better than IDK Mason in say a finals situation, and Mason scores a 97.10 Hebron gets a 99.10. It is possible. 

[cybrunette]

Feb 2, 2023 12:34:55 GMT -6 principalagent said:

I actually think it’s time to recalibrate the sheets. If a band is at 98, that means the judges will soon run out of room because the standard is only getting higher top to bottom. Rework sheets and expectations such that the GN winner in 202x would land around a 93, then let things rise again until it’s time to recalibrate again.

Wouldn't you say that's the case & already happens with let's say if we compare a 1990's GN score to a 2010's GN score? For example Center Grove pulled a 97 in 1995, but we know that would not be the case if that show were to compete with any band in the last decade.. that show might even have a hard time making finals today. We know looking back at it that sure they definitely deserved it & it was an incredible show, but the way & the precision judges look for when they give scores now is absolutely different than back then. 

[Subito Fortissimo]

We would need a super stacked year where bands that are normally comfortably into finals are out. On top of that we need a band that is in the conversation for best band ever...and they are only the second best band there. That band and the one that is even better need to perform in the last two slots in finals. Then maybe it could happen.

[vidal28rdg]

Feb 2, 2023 21:26:18 GMT -6 Subito Fortissimo said:

We would need a super stacked year where bands that are normally comfortably into finals are out. On top of that we need a band that is in the conversation for best band ever...and they are only the second best band there. That band and the one that is even better need to perform in the last two slots in finals. Then maybe it could happen.

the ol’ “iron sharpens iron” possibility is probably the only way it happens. Although with BOA if one band is better in GE(that top GE band ain’t getting a perfect GE score, it hasn’t happened yet) your margin of error in the performance captions gets much more slim. A 59.5 GE score(highest GE score given ever I believe) only gives you a another 5 tenths of a point left to lose in Music/Visual performance. It would be really tough.

[boahistorybuff]

Feb 2, 2023 15:43:27 GMT -6 cybrunette said:

Feb 2, 2023 12:34:55 GMT -6 principalagent said:

I actually think it’s time to recalibrate the sheets. If a band is at 98, that means the judges will soon run out of room because the standard is only getting higher top to bottom. Rework sheets and expectations such that the GN winner in 202x would land around a 93, then let things rise again until it’s time to recalibrate again.

Wouldn't you say that's the case & already happens with let's say if we compare a 1990's GN score to a 2010's GN score? For example Center Grove pulled a 97 in 1995, but we know that would not be the case if that show were to compete with any band in the last decade.. that show might even have a hard time making finals today. We know looking back at it that sure they definitely deserved it & it was an incredible show, but the way & the precision judges look for when they give scores now is absolutely different than back then. 

Yes, the recap sheets have had to be recalibrated so to speak many times over. Taking aside the obvious changes in styles over the decades, the performance level of Grand National Finals caliber bands in this era are simply at another level compared to decades past. A show that scored say 92 in Grand National Finals 30 years ago would not make top 20 in Semi Finals today. This is why I don't focus too much on scores. It is also why I say to the youngsters on these forums that when you watch some of the GN Finals performances of past decades, you have to put the show into the context of what high school bands were accomplishing during those eras of the past. Yes, top level high school marching bands of today are performing at a level unimaginable 10,20,30,40 years ago. 

[philodemus]

Guys... scores aren't based on a fixed standard.

Scores are just ways of showing meaningful differences between the groups who are there that day. To say a 97 in the mid-90s is different from a 97 today is no more than to say 'there were different bands doing different things at different times.'

We would likely only get a 99 if:

• There were a lot of very, very good bands at the same show.
• The judging panel somehow didn't know there were a lot of very, very good good bands at the same show, causing them to start too high.

Bands aren't judged on a universal standard, they're judged relative to each other. That's why the old 'can't compare scores between competitions' wisdom is so very, very true.

[boahistorybuff]

Feb 3, 2023 8:15:40 GMT -6 philodemus said:

Guys... scores aren't based on a fixed standard.

Scores are just ways of showing meaningful differences between the groups who are there that day. To say a 97 in the mid-90s is different from a 97 today is no more than to say 'there were different bands doing different things at different times.'

We would likely only get a 99 if:

• There were a lot of very, very good bands at the same show.
• The judging panel somehow didn't know there were a lot of very, very good good bands at the same show, causing them to start too high.

Bands aren't judged on a universal standard, they're judged relative to each other. That's why the old 'can't compare scores between competitions' wisdom is so very, very true.

You said what I tried to say in my last post. I totally agree. Yes, if we have a really competitive Grand Nationals, like having a bunch of big name Texas bands in attendance, that may be the year we can sneak a 99 point score in there. 

[allthingschaotic]

Feb 2, 2023 21:26:18 GMT -6 Subito Fortissimo said:

We would need a super stacked year where bands that are normally comfortably into finals are out. On top of that we need a band that is in the conversation for best band ever...and they are only the second best band there. That band and the one that is even better need to perform in the last two slots in finals. Then maybe it could happen.

... which is basically what happened at GN 2021.

The thing is, GN finals that was that stacked won't happen for a few years based on rotation schedules.

I say it'll happen eventually, but it may take longer than we expect.

[marimba11]

Feb 3, 2023 8:15:40 GMT -6 philodemus said:

Guys... scores aren't based on a fixed standard.

Scores are just ways of showing meaningful differences between the groups who are there that day. To say a 97 in the mid-90s is different from a 97 today is no more than to say 'there were different bands doing different things at different times.'

We would likely only get a 99 if:

• There were a lot of very, very good bands at the same show.
• The judging panel somehow didn't know there were a lot of very, very good good bands at the same show, causing them to start too high.

Bands aren't judged on a universal standard, they're judged relative to each other. That's why the old 'can't compare scores between competitions' wisdom is so very, very true.

Amen!

[es203]

Feb 3, 2023 10:17:21 GMT -6 allthingschaotic said:

Feb 2, 2023 21:26:18 GMT -6 Subito Fortissimo said:

We would need a super stacked year where bands that are normally comfortably into finals are out. On top of that we need a band that is in the conversation for best band ever...and they are only the second best band there. That band and the one that is even better need to perform in the last two slots in finals. Then maybe it could happen.

... which is basically what happened at GN 2021.

The thing is, GN finals that was that stacked won't happen for a few years based on rotation schedules.

I say it'll happen eventually, but it may take longer than we expect.

This coming fall is looking promising...

[vidal28rdg]

Feb 4, 2023 20:06:49 GMT -6 es203 said:

Feb 3, 2023 10:17:21 GMT -6 allthingschaotic said:

... which is basically what happened at GN 2021.

The thing is, GN finals that was that stacked won't happen for a few years based on rotation schedules.

I say it'll happen eventually, but it may take longer than we expect.

This coming fall is looking promising...

it takes a strong roster of bands along with their near peak/peak performances. I’d love to have the winners of all the SR’s attend, that would be fantastic to start with, with the SASR and grand nats attendees, it’s always a swing and a miss if you want the SR champion attending Grand Nats, not to say we get chopped liver with our Texas bands that attend Grand Nats, far from it! I’m absolutely psyched at the contingent potentially attending this year! I don’t believe a 99 to be in the cards this year even then, a 98.5 would already be unheard of and incredibly impressive.