Question about judging from a parent's perspective

[riot]

I have very little musical training (played a snare drum for a semester 30+ years ago).  Is there a way for someone like me with little to no musical training to be able to judge which band performed better musically?  I can tell when a single instrument plays an errant note from the rest of the group, but beyond that I'm pretty lost.  I found and listened to music judge's comment tape overlayed with the band's performance, but it didn't help much.  

It seems to me that without fairly in-depth music training and knowledge of how a piece should sound or be played, parents are pretty much left to the judges about who is better musically.

I guess the same could be said about visual effects, but I feel like that has a lower learning curve.  I can see when a line is not straight or spaced evenly.  It's also easier to see when group movement isn't in sync.

I feel like I'm somewhat getting better about knowing which band is better because the first time I saw Brownsburg at ISSMA Regional, I thought they were better than us (Castle) which aligned with the scoring/placements.  But it was mostly intuition without the understanding of why were they actually better.

[paddy]

A resource for you, at least from the standpoint of trying to understand what the judges are looking for is the BOA Adjudication Handbook. The section on judging starts on page 27: marching.musicforall.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2022/06/2022-BOA.Rulebook.pdf

The other thing to remember is it is not just about the quality of the performance, but also the degree of difficulty and simultaneous demand in the performance. 

[drummerboy]

I am sure some others could chime in as well but even after years and years of attending band contests, you may often leave wondering how or why they judges came to the scoring that they did.   It is also a bit easier to see the difference in a nationally competitive band than maybe a band that you only see at local or early season events when shows are developing and not final.   In your example with Castle and Brownsburg, you are mentioning two Grand Nat finalists, of which the differences become very small by the time you get to early November (state and grand nats).

One other thing I experienced was the "enjoyment" factor.   Sometimes shows the you enjoy or appeal to you, may not score as well as you might think.   Don't beat yourself up trying to figure it all out, you will go crazy attempting to.   Enjoy it.   All of it!  And get involved as a parent.   Best time of my life getting to experience with my kids as we went thru 6 years of marching band!

[boahistorybuff]

One thing to keep in mind is that there is a group of judges who look at specific aspects of a show from different vantage points; field level up to the press box level. This is because it takes more than one person to judge a bands performance. On these forums we all like to think we can judge an entire performance and rank them. In reality we cant, but we do have fun trying.

A band like Castle is competing at the very top level of the high school marching band circuits, among the top groups in both ISSMA and BOA. The bands competing in those top groups are so good that it really does take judges with a strong music education and background to be able to pick out very subtle flaws that those of us without extensive musical training often miss. Also, a judge on the field often picks out subtle mistakes that may not be noticeable from a higher vantage point. Another thing I want to point out is that of difficulty. When a band plays difficult music really well, they make it seem easy from a listener's stand point. For instance, last seasons performances by Carmel at Grand Nationals and Hebron at BOA San Antonio are perfect examples. Both of those performances had such brilliant music execution that they made it seem easy, which I assure you was not. That of course gave them high music execution scores from the judges.

One thing I would suggest as someone in the audience is to pay attention to how the bands improve during the course of the season. What are you hearing and seeing by the end of the season that was so much better compared to the start of the season. You can also compare top level performances to a how should I say not so top level performances. These things will kind of help you develop a better sense of what constitutes a stronger performance.

Now with respect to comparing Castle to Brownsburg, two amazing bands that are at the same level, it really takes a group of well trained judges to be able to pick out the finer details.

[hewhowaits]

Mar 17, 2023 7:54:41 GMT -6 riot said:

I feel like I'm somewhat getting better about knowing which band is better because the first time I saw Brownsburg at ISSMA Regional, I thought they were better than us (Castle) which aligned with the scoring/placements.  But it was mostly intuition without the understanding of why were they actually better.

Among the "untrained" (most of us), this is where we land. Realizing that Band A performed a stronger show than Band B when those bands are at very similar performance levels takes a certain amount of understanding what constitutes "good." It can be hard removing the "I liked" out of analyzing shows but that is something that gets easier over time.

I often share with others at a show that show X was my favorite, that I thought show Y was the "best" show, and that the judges will probably pick show Z as the winner. My favorite show is often completely unrelated to the scoring rubric - it's about what I enjoy the most. My opinion of what was "best" is just that - one individual's opinion looking at the entirety of the shows. My experience with how shows are adjudicated over the years has led to being able to (usually) understand what will score well with the judges (sometimes even depending on what I know about certain judges). Even then, the winning show will sometimes be none of the above.

About once a year, my favorite show is my "best" show is my prediction for what the judges will award is the actual winner.