Post by paddy on Apr 25, 2023 6:19:19 GMT -6
Tyler Durnell
I’m sorry. But some of the pay rates posted on here are just blatantly disrespectful. So many programs want to hire assistant directors or even directors and pay them less than what they could make working a full time, minimum wage job, and somehow expect them to both give their best work to the program, and stick around long term. At this point, not offering a livable wage for these positions is inexcusable, and saying you have no control over the wages is just a way to pass on the blame. We. Have. To. Do. Better.
Blake Robertson
💯 agree and accepting a job at $1,500 per season just makes it okay to pay others those wages. You can do it “for the kids” and still be paid your worth.
Kristen Cummings
Blake Robertson I think it depends on the area. I totally get what you are saying but I was told, if I, as a director want more money, I can go elsewhere and they can find someone to replace me. When I asked for more staff with pay, I was told my students pay for my staff. However, if I go above a certain amount per kid, I lose them. Yes, we SHOULD get paid more. Sadly, some just don't see the benefits. I am short staff because I can't pay anymore staff. I was barely able to hire on a fourth staff member. We don't do colorguard classes here unless we want to be paid $10 an hour (at around 8 hours a week) for one coach to teach. It is wild.
Blake Robertson
Kristen Cummings Yes there is a big difference between not having the money to pay staff and undervaluing someone. We do understand that for sure. And to be fair, many first time instructors benefit from those programs because it offers a chance to get experience where a higher paying job wouldn’t consider them. My point was never meant to villainies band directors. I have a great deal of respect for what you guys do and a lot of love for the ones I have worked with. I simply don’t want to see someone be told that their desire to be paid a fair wage was not “not living in the real world”.
Kreston Smith
I pay my staff $15 an hour. This may seem low, but when you work at a district that gives ZERO funding and you only have the kids band fees and the fundraising sponsorship support it make what we do difficult. Music now a days BY IT SELF is $1600 plus the. Copying licenses are another $1400 and then you have to purchase drill, uniforms, flags, comp fees, and other staff. My 43 member band spent 60k last year on our program and I had to fundraise like crazy. I did a VAST amount myself as the head director though corporate sponsors and selling 93 boxes of world famous chocolate myself!!
Tyler Durnell
Kreston Smith Please know, I understand and acknowledge that there are road blocks to fighting the pay discrepancy that exists in this activity. But I feel that so many of those involved are just ready to say it is what it is, and then exit the conversation. We have to fight for a better outcome if we want this activity to continue to thrive for generations to come. Otherwise, it will simply crumble under the weight of this discussion.
Kreston Smith
I do not disagree with the sentiment of paying my staff. I pay 4 staff: visual, 2 drum techs, and Guard tech $15 an hour. I have a brass and wind tech just for band camp too. It is difficult to manage all the affairs without the staff in place. I wish I knew what to do to balance it. I wish districts appreciated the arts more and gave out funding or more. There are districts in my area giving 25k to 30k a year to their programs. We get zero unfortunately and not much you can do with that.
Mark Henderson
I really hope you consider that HS competitive marching band is not a money maker whatsoever and does not exist to give people jobs.
Considering the extra duty pay that a band director makes (which covers pep band, outside concerts, marching, jazz, concert band festivals, etc…), band directors probably average about .75/hour for the extra things they have to do (fundraiser, parent meetings, outside rehearsals) to have a fairly competitive band that would even require extra techs. Many have simply looked at this statistic and stopped competing, thus eliminating the need for these positions at all.
My suggestion, if you want to make more money, is to show how what you have to offer generates revenue for the band. How much are people willing to pay to come see your product? Are you organizing the fundraisers? Are you soliciting donations for the program?
Shoot, you do that for me to cover all my expenses plus more, and I’ll pay you $50+/hr.
Above is a poorly formatted Facebook conversation from a well known job posting community. The general gist is that programs don't pay enough for their staff to have a living wage. There was some spicier back and forth from a reasonably well known band director from Ohio weighing in before he decided to delete his posts. That director's take was the people complaining didn't really understand how the operations of a HS band program worked and needed to get more info before putting people who do run the programs on blast. That went poorly for him.
I find it interesting as someone who has been involved in multiple layers and roles of a band program and school, and as a parent whose kid is on their way to being a band director. I am still formulating my thoughts, but I was interested in hearing what others think.
I’m sorry. But some of the pay rates posted on here are just blatantly disrespectful. So many programs want to hire assistant directors or even directors and pay them less than what they could make working a full time, minimum wage job, and somehow expect them to both give their best work to the program, and stick around long term. At this point, not offering a livable wage for these positions is inexcusable, and saying you have no control over the wages is just a way to pass on the blame. We. Have. To. Do. Better.
Blake Robertson
💯 agree and accepting a job at $1,500 per season just makes it okay to pay others those wages. You can do it “for the kids” and still be paid your worth.
Kristen Cummings
Blake Robertson I think it depends on the area. I totally get what you are saying but I was told, if I, as a director want more money, I can go elsewhere and they can find someone to replace me. When I asked for more staff with pay, I was told my students pay for my staff. However, if I go above a certain amount per kid, I lose them. Yes, we SHOULD get paid more. Sadly, some just don't see the benefits. I am short staff because I can't pay anymore staff. I was barely able to hire on a fourth staff member. We don't do colorguard classes here unless we want to be paid $10 an hour (at around 8 hours a week) for one coach to teach. It is wild.
Blake Robertson
Kristen Cummings Yes there is a big difference between not having the money to pay staff and undervaluing someone. We do understand that for sure. And to be fair, many first time instructors benefit from those programs because it offers a chance to get experience where a higher paying job wouldn’t consider them. My point was never meant to villainies band directors. I have a great deal of respect for what you guys do and a lot of love for the ones I have worked with. I simply don’t want to see someone be told that their desire to be paid a fair wage was not “not living in the real world”.
Kreston Smith
I pay my staff $15 an hour. This may seem low, but when you work at a district that gives ZERO funding and you only have the kids band fees and the fundraising sponsorship support it make what we do difficult. Music now a days BY IT SELF is $1600 plus the. Copying licenses are another $1400 and then you have to purchase drill, uniforms, flags, comp fees, and other staff. My 43 member band spent 60k last year on our program and I had to fundraise like crazy. I did a VAST amount myself as the head director though corporate sponsors and selling 93 boxes of world famous chocolate myself!!
Tyler Durnell
Kreston Smith Please know, I understand and acknowledge that there are road blocks to fighting the pay discrepancy that exists in this activity. But I feel that so many of those involved are just ready to say it is what it is, and then exit the conversation. We have to fight for a better outcome if we want this activity to continue to thrive for generations to come. Otherwise, it will simply crumble under the weight of this discussion.
Kreston Smith
I do not disagree with the sentiment of paying my staff. I pay 4 staff: visual, 2 drum techs, and Guard tech $15 an hour. I have a brass and wind tech just for band camp too. It is difficult to manage all the affairs without the staff in place. I wish I knew what to do to balance it. I wish districts appreciated the arts more and gave out funding or more. There are districts in my area giving 25k to 30k a year to their programs. We get zero unfortunately and not much you can do with that.
Mark Henderson
I really hope you consider that HS competitive marching band is not a money maker whatsoever and does not exist to give people jobs.
Considering the extra duty pay that a band director makes (which covers pep band, outside concerts, marching, jazz, concert band festivals, etc…), band directors probably average about .75/hour for the extra things they have to do (fundraiser, parent meetings, outside rehearsals) to have a fairly competitive band that would even require extra techs. Many have simply looked at this statistic and stopped competing, thus eliminating the need for these positions at all.
My suggestion, if you want to make more money, is to show how what you have to offer generates revenue for the band. How much are people willing to pay to come see your product? Are you organizing the fundraisers? Are you soliciting donations for the program?
Shoot, you do that for me to cover all my expenses plus more, and I’ll pay you $50+/hr.
Above is a poorly formatted Facebook conversation from a well known job posting community. The general gist is that programs don't pay enough for their staff to have a living wage. There was some spicier back and forth from a reasonably well known band director from Ohio weighing in before he decided to delete his posts. That director's take was the people complaining didn't really understand how the operations of a HS band program worked and needed to get more info before putting people who do run the programs on blast. That went poorly for him.
I find it interesting as someone who has been involved in multiple layers and roles of a band program and school, and as a parent whose kid is on their way to being a band director. I am still formulating my thoughts, but I was interested in hearing what others think.
