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Post by 70sguardchick on Jun 21, 2023 14:55:58 GMT -6
ISSMA has posted the rule changes for the 3-24 season (because of course they can't reveal the secrets of the full rule book...). Most of the rules relate to Scholastic class, but this one is intriguing - who caused shenanigans with a grill in the lot last year??? Someone making s'mores between the buses??
Safety: Any school, or student of a school, who creates a discipline or safety concern at any performance site and is reported to the ISSMA Executive Director will be subject to an investigation by the Executive Committee if the Executive Director deems the circumstances are of a serious enough nature. This includes the use of propane, charcoal, or other open-flame devices for preparing food at any ISSMA event. A warning or a one-year suspension from participation for the organization in question will be the penalty. If deemed appropriate, other such disciplinary measures may be imposed upon the student, director, or school. p. 7, V.B
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Post by paddy on Jun 21, 2023 17:04:17 GMT -6
My bad on the grill. Those ribeyes for the band dads weren’t going to cook well in crockpots.
Rules changes I wished were in there…
1. Lower the number of band members for Scholastic A below 100, maybe even 85-90.
2. Concert Choir/Band/Orchestra events- only one ensemble per school can qualify for state.
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Post by BandHomer on Jun 21, 2023 19:46:44 GMT -6
My bad on the grill. Those ribeyes for the band dads weren’t going to cook well in crockpots. Rules changes I wished were in there… 1. Lower the number of band members for Scholastic A below 100, maybe even 85-90. 2. Concert Choir/Band/Orchestra events- only one ensemble per school can qualify for state. I understand the sentiment on the “one ensemble” wish, coming from a smaller school myself. But in talking with some others this spring around ISSMA, a good point was brought up that excluding second qualifiers would be a disadvantage to kids participating from large high schools. If they are good enough to field two groups that can qualify and compete with others, why not allow it? Not sure where I land on it…just thought it was an interesting counter. |
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Post by paddy on Jun 21, 2023 20:29:42 GMT -6
My bad on the grill. Those ribeyes for the band dads weren’t going to cook well in crockpots. Rules changes I wished were in there… 1. Lower the number of band members for Scholastic A below 100, maybe even 85-90. 2. Concert Choir/Band/Orchestra events- only one ensemble per school can qualify for state. I understand the sentiment on the “one ensemble” wish, coming from a smaller school myself. But in talking with some others this spring around ISSMA, a good point was brought up that excluding second qualifiers would be a disadvantage to kids participating from large high schools. If they are good enough to field two groups that can qualify and compete with others, why not allow it? Not sure where I land on it…just thought it was an interesting counter. If Carmel or Avon or Fishers could create multiple marching bands and place multiple groups at State why not let them? Multiple schools could place multiple top tier guards, winds or indoor percussion groups in the top classes as well. There are schools that cut in those groups it seems like a disservice to those kids. We class and divide up schools for a reason in so many other facets of the pageantry arts world, why not in this arena? Heck, we do it in sports as well. Carmel’s women’s JV swim team is probably second to only Carmel’s women’s varsity swim team. It is unfair that they can’t put 2 teams in. I’m guessing there are multiple schools in multiple sports where the same thing happens. |
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Post by vidal28rdg on Jun 21, 2023 21:14:06 GMT -6
I understand the sentiment on the “one ensemble” wish, coming from a smaller school myself. But in talking with some others this spring around ISSMA, a good point was brought up that excluding second qualifiers would be a disadvantage to kids participating from large high schools. If they are good enough to field two groups that can qualify and compete with others, why not allow it? Not sure where I land on it…just thought it was an interesting counter. If Carmel or Avon or Fishers could create multiple marching bands and place multiple groups at State why not let them? Multiple schools could place multiple top tier guards, winds or indoor percussion groups in the top classes as well. There are schools that cut in those groups it seems like a disservice to those kids. We class and divide up schools for a reason in so many other facets of the pageantry arts world, why not in this arena? Heck, we do it in sports as well. Carmel’s women’s JV swim team is probably second to only Carmel’s women’s varsity swim team. It is unfair that they can’t put 2 teams in. I’m guessing there are multiple schools in multiple sports where the same thing happens. Just from an outsider’s perspective looking in, the compromise would be, something that could be implementing, a JV division, very few schools I would imagine would compete in this just ‘cause there aren’t too many large schools and even less that would wanna split their band in two. If some schools still insist in having a second group, they can compete there. |
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Post by 70sguardchick on Jun 22, 2023 7:43:14 GMT -6
My bad on the grill. Those ribeyes for the band dads weren’t going to cook well in crockpots. Next time wrap them in foil and heat 'em up on the semi engine, Paddy.... |
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riot
Senior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by riot on Jun 22, 2023 9:41:46 GMT -6
ISSMA has posted the rule changes for the 3-24 season (because of course they can't reveal the secrets of the full rule book...). Most of the rules relate to Scholastic class, but this one is intriguing - who caused shenanigans with a grill in the lot last year??? Someone making s'mores between the buses?? Safety: Any school, or student of a school, who creates a discipline or safety concern at any performance site and is reported to the ISSMA Executive Director will be subject to an investigation by the Executive Committee if the Executive Director deems the circumstances are of a serious enough nature. This includes the use of propane, charcoal, or other open-flame devices for preparing food at any ISSMA event. A warning or a one-year suspension from participation for the organization in question will be the penalty. If deemed appropriate, other such disciplinary measures may be imposed upon the student, director, or school. p. 7, V.B So I just need to make sure I'm decked out in some other bands swag while grilling? j/k  |
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Post by 70sguardchick on Jun 22, 2023 13:57:54 GMT -6
ISSMA has posted the rule changes for the 3-24 season (because of course they can't reveal the secrets of the full rule book...). Most of the rules relate to Scholastic class, but this one is intriguing - who caused shenanigans with a grill in the lot last year??? Someone making s'mores between the buses?? Safety: Any school, or student of a school, who creates a discipline or safety concern at any performance site and is reported to the ISSMA Executive Director will be subject to an investigation by the Executive Committee if the Executive Director deems the circumstances are of a serious enough nature. This includes the use of propane, charcoal, or other open-flame devices for preparing food at any ISSMA event. A warning or a one-year suspension from participation for the organization in question will be the penalty. If deemed appropriate, other such disciplinary measures may be imposed upon the student, director, or school. p. 7, V.B So I just need to make sure I'm decked out in some other bands swag while grilling? j/k Steaks by Carmel! |
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Post by paddy on Jun 22, 2023 14:39:42 GMT -6
So I just need to make sure I'm decked out in some other bands swag while grilling? j/k Steaks by Carmel! You don’t need to heat caviar and the cold seafood towers… |
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Post by bandirectorman on Jun 22, 2023 15:12:48 GMT -6
You don’t need to heat caviar and the cold seafood towers… Nah, Carmel doesn't have enough $1M+ listings on Redfin to be in the 'champagne wishes & caviar dreams' conversation. For example, you can purchase from a national home builder like Pulte in other midwestern markets for roughly what most of the homes are currently going for in Carmel. |
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Post by paddy on Jun 22, 2023 19:13:25 GMT -6
You don’t need to heat caviar and the cold seafood towers… Nah, Carmel doesn't have enough $1M+ listings on Redfin to be in the 'champagne wishes & caviar dreams' conversation. For example, you can purchase from a national home builder like Pulte in other midwestern markets for roughly what most of the homes are currently going for in Carmel. Sometimes a joke is just a joke and not a factually accurate statement… But you do you. |
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Post by philodemus on Jun 24, 2023 7:58:21 GMT -6
Sorry, late to this conversation... Did Indiana really band grilling in the lot?
Good Lord, we'd lose a lot of enthusiastic band dads in my neck of the woods if they couldn't keep the tailgate on point!
Does anyone know the story? Did someone, like, accidentally light a building on fire or something? There must be a story here.
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Post by hewhowaits on Jun 24, 2023 9:44:19 GMT -6
Sorry, late to this conversation... Did Indiana really band grilling in the lot? Good Lord, we'd lose a lot of enthusiastic band dads in my neck of the woods if they couldn't keep the tailgate on point! Does anyone know the story? Did someone, like, accidentally light a building on fire or something? There must be a story here. I don't know the story, but grilling IN the lot is a potential safety hazard to all the bands and volunteers moving about the lot. BOA doesn't allow any grilling IN the lot and also bans EATING in the lot at events. Food tables can be set up in the lot, but everyone is required to eat in surrounding grassy areas (or a designated picnic area). Grills may be set up in areas adjacent to, but not IN the lot (unless precluded by the host site). ISSMA seems to be adopting a similar policy (but with specific added penalties associated with violating the policy). |
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Post by paddy on Jun 24, 2023 12:03:41 GMT -6
Not about safety.
And why replicate the logistics of a group who can’t efficiently run a lot. Every BOA show my groups have attended we end up parked in 4 different locations and are usually trapped when we try to leave.
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Post by philodemus on Jun 24, 2023 12:20:35 GMT -6
Sorry, late to this conversation... Did Indiana really band grilling in the lot? Good Lord, we'd lose a lot of enthusiastic band dads in my neck of the woods if they couldn't keep the tailgate on point! Does anyone know the story? Did someone, like, accidentally light a building on fire or something? There must be a story here. I don't know the story, but grilling IN the lot is a potential safety hazard to all the bands and volunteers moving about the lot. BOA doesn't allow any grilling IN the lot and also bans EATING in the lot at events. Food tables can be set up in the lot, but everyone is required to eat in surrounding grassy areas (or a designated picnic area). Grills may be set up in areas adjacent to, but not IN the lot (unless precluded by the host site). ISSMA seems to be adopting a similar policy (but with specific added penalties associated with violating the policy). I mean, this feels like it falls under the rubric of the 'nobody be an a-hole' rule. Like, yeah, pull it off in the grass out of the way, don't block the movement for anybody through the lot. Surely... surely we're all mature enough to get that without need of a rule in a rulebook. I suppose on the flipside... there must have been some incident in which somebody was an a-hole and did block movement through the lot and now no one can enjoy the simple joy of a tailgate. Stupid a-holes, always screwing stuff up. |
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Post by 70sguardchick on Jun 24, 2023 13:08:55 GMT -6
I don't know the story, but grilling IN the lot is a potential safety hazard to all the bands and volunteers moving about the lot. BOA doesn't allow any grilling IN the lot and also bans EATING in the lot at events. Food tables can be set up in the lot, but everyone is required to eat in surrounding grassy areas (or a designated picnic area). Grills may be set up in areas adjacent to, but not IN the lot (unless precluded by the host site). ISSMA seems to be adopting a similar policy (but with specific added penalties associated with violating the policy). I mean, this feels like it falls under the rubric of the 'nobody be an a-hole' rule. Like, yeah, pull it off in the grass out of the way, don't block the movement for anybody through the lot. Surely... surely we're all mature enough to get that without need of a rule in a rulebook. I suppose on the flipside... there must have been some incident in which somebody was an a-hole and did block movement through the lot and now no one can enjoy the simple joy of a tailgate. Stupid a-holes, always screwing stuff up. Paddy knows the tea. Not a $afety thing. |
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Post by paddy on Jun 24, 2023 13:09:00 GMT -6
Somebody was an ahole, but it wasn’t someone in the lot.
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Post by hewhowaits on Jun 24, 2023 13:09:47 GMT -6
Not about safety. And why replicate the logistics of a group who can’t efficiently run a lot. Every BOA show my groups have attended we end up parked in 4 different locations and are usually trapped when we try to leave. Come to an event where Allohak or myself is in charge of parking. You'll be very satisfied. |
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Post by 70sguardchick on Jun 24, 2023 13:11:21 GMT -6
Not about safety. And why replicate the logistics of a group who can’t efficiently run a lot. Every BOA show my groups have attended we end up parked in 4 different locations and are usually trapped when we try to leave. Come to an event where Allohak or myself is in charge of parking. You'll be very satisfied. Or heck, come volunteer and get a parking pass...... |
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Post by paddy on Jun 24, 2023 13:21:09 GMT -6
Come to an event where Allohak or myself is in charge of parking. You'll be very satisfied. Or heck, come volunteer and get a parking pass...... I always had a parking pass, never helped. |
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Post by paddy on Jun 24, 2023 13:21:45 GMT -6
Not about safety. And why replicate the logistics of a group who can’t efficiently run a lot. Every BOA show my groups have attended we end up parked in 4 different locations and are usually trapped when we try to leave. Come to an event where Allohak or myself is in charge of parking. You'll be very satisfied. Tell me when and where. It would serve BOA well to actually talk to the folks who have to navigate the performance flow. |
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Post by philodemus on Jun 24, 2023 13:24:00 GMT -6
Oooohhhhh... is this one of those "Feeding your kids is illegal so you have to buy our overpriced concessions things"? I remember that from a few BOA events back in the day.
I always thought nothing on earth said, "BOA is for rich kids and rich kids only" quite like that policy.
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Post by hewhowaits on Jun 24, 2023 18:49:59 GMT -6
Come to an event where Allohak or myself is in charge of parking. You'll be very satisfied. Tell me when and where. It would serve BOA well to actually talk to the folks who have to navigate the performance flow. This season, neither of us is working parking at any events. One or both of us will be working performance flow at Kentucky, Obetz, Iowa, Toledo, Indy SR, Rutgers, and Grand Nationals. We (speaking for Allohak and myself) always welcome suggestions for how the participating bands think things can be improved (especially from the volunteers). Sometimes the best way to get things changed is from the bottom up. |
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rickofavon
Senior Member
Never let the drumming die.
Posts: 75
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Post by rickofavon on Jun 28, 2023 19:03:14 GMT -6
Odd rule but something happened that caused it obviously. Shame because that kind of thing can help build organizational unity.
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Post by paddy on Jun 29, 2023 4:35:24 GMT -6
Odd rule but something happened that caused it obviously. Shame because that kind of thing can help build organizational unity. Nothing of consequence happened. This wasn’t in response to an unsafe condition in the lot. |
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bflat
Full Member
Posts: 29
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Post by bflat on Aug 4, 2023 21:53:23 GMT -6
If Carmel or Avon or Fishers could create multiple marching bands and place multiple groups at State why not let them? Multiple schools could place multiple top tier guards, winds or indoor percussion groups in the top classes as well. There are schools that cut in those groups it seems like a disservice to those kids. We class and divide up schools for a reason in so many other facets of the pageantry arts world, why not in this arena? Heck, we do it in sports as well. Carmel’s women’s JV swim team is probably second to only Carmel’s women’s varsity swim team. It is unfair that they can’t put 2 teams in. I’m guessing there are multiple schools in multiple sports where the same thing happens. Just from an outsider’s perspective looking in, the compromise would be, something that could be implementing, a JV division, very few schools I would imagine would compete in this just ‘cause there aren’t too many large schools and even less that would wanna split their band in two. If some schools still insist in having a second group, they can compete there. This option basically already exists. There is the state competition track and organizational festival track for concert band, orchestra, and choir. For state competition there are qualifier competitions that happen at multiple sites in the state where schools must play the hardest rated music (group I) and are scored and rated (gold, silver, etc). Schools are competing against each other to get into state, then at state they compete for scores and placements/rankings. For organizational festival, schools aren't in competition against each other but are going for scores and ratings (gold, silver, etc) at various music difficulties (group I, II, III, IV), like Solo/Ensemble is run. This is why it's ridiculous to allow schools to have more than one group advance to state. If they have multiple high level groups, they can have a state qualifier group while other groups work for ratings at organizational festival. Achieving a gold with distinction in group I at organizational festival is still an accomplishment. I could see an argument for letting multiple groups from the same school attend qualifiers, then choosing the higher scored qualifier to advance but being able to call both groups state qualifiers. But as others noted, sports don't allow multiple teams from the same school to compete in the same division, and neither should ISSMA allow this for music. Since the biggest schools already deal with this for sports where teams are typically smaller than many band or orchestra groups (thus even less opportunity for individual students to make the cut in a big school), I'm not sure why they feel entitled to pull this with ISSMA. If the schools don't like that, their districts could, I don't know, split their schools to a more reasonable size to give more students more opportunities instead of continuing to expand single schools endlessly to dominate sports and performing arts. |
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