|
|
Post by regimember on Nov 16, 2023 20:14:01 GMT -6
Broken Cartwright
|
|
|
|
Post by ilikeguard on Nov 16, 2023 21:06:59 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by ilikeguard on Nov 16, 2023 21:07:32 GMT -6
If I were slightly more evil I would lie and say I know who the replacement is alleged to be
|
|
|
|
Post by saturdaynightlights on Nov 16, 2023 21:08:16 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by principalagent on Nov 16, 2023 21:09:39 GMT -6
Clearly this only means that Cartwright is doing the visual design for Broken City but this should be in the WGI forum and not the BOA forum. |
|
|
|
Post by abtwitch on Nov 16, 2023 21:11:18 GMT -6
Clearly this only means that Cartwright is doing the visual design for Broken City but this should be in the WGI forum and not the BOA forum. Surely that's the case, no other possible and far more obvious interpretation. |
|
|
|
Post by ilikeguard on Nov 16, 2023 21:13:38 GMT -6
I am manifesting several other potential breakups (of many combinations, not just the topical one) for both maximum chaos and for the genuine benefit of certain groups 🙏
|
|
|
|
Post by saturdaynightlights on Nov 16, 2023 21:21:15 GMT -6
I am manifesting several other potential breakups (of many combinations, not just the topical one) for both maximum chaos and for the genuine benefit of certain groups 🙏 *squirtbottle.gif* |
|
|
|
Post by ilikeguard on Nov 16, 2023 21:23:54 GMT -6
I am manifesting several other potential breakups (of many combinations, not just the topical one) for both maximum chaos and for the genuine benefit of certain groups 🙏 *squirtbottle.gif* #5 and #7 and I will be the happiest most annoying girl in the world |
|
|
|
Post by OldSchoolTrumpet on Nov 17, 2023 7:05:35 GMT -6
Is this true? Is there an interesting story here, filled with ugliness and bitterness? |
|
croden
Junior Member
Posts: 24 
|
Post by croden on Nov 17, 2023 8:26:05 GMT -6
Not at all surprising. Wonder if they’ll go with Vento… Loved their shows lately |
|
|
|
Post by regimember on Nov 17, 2023 9:12:04 GMT -6
I am manifesting several other potential breakups (of many combinations, not just the topical one) for both maximum chaos and for the genuine benefit of certain groups 🙏 Tbh... this might just be the realest thing you've said ever. |
|
|
|
Post by ilikeguard on Nov 17, 2023 9:40:05 GMT -6
Is this true? Is there an interesting story here, filled with ugliness and bitterness? Ill say to you what he said to me... "I think you might be on to something." To an extent I believe other events took place outside of the state and district, involving a separate student misconduct ordeal. This is going to be a good change for student wellbeing and the future of the program. My school shared a lot of staff with BA and some of my best friends are alumni. The emotional challenges we all went through are NOT necessary for a successful program and I welcome them becoming a thing of the past. A lot of my very strict philosophy on student and staff conduct comes from my own experiences, both positive and negative. |
|
|
|
Post by crunchycookie3 on Nov 17, 2023 10:07:58 GMT -6
Ill say to you what he said to me... "I think you might be on to something." To an extent I believe other events took place outside of the state and district, involving a separate student misconduct ordeal. This is going to be a good change for student wellbeing and the future of the program. My school shared a lot of staff with BA and some of my best friends are alumni. The emotional challenges we all went through are NOT necessary for a successful program and I welcome them becoming a thing of the past. A lot of my very strict philosophy on student and staff conduct comes from my own experiences, both positive and negative. With great respect for some of the products Cartwright has had a hand in producing, his teaching methods with children were a bit... harsh lol. As an alumni of a program that worked quite closely with that designer, I'm really hoping that more groups continue to distance themselves. No product is worth going through that, especially when other designers are frankly producing shows of equal (if not higher) quality. |
|
|
|
Post by Subito Fortissimo on Nov 17, 2023 10:12:38 GMT -6
Ill say to you what he said to me... "I think you might be on to something." To an extent I believe other events took place outside of the state and district, involving a separate student misconduct ordeal. This is going to be a good change for student wellbeing and the future of the program. My school shared a lot of staff with BA and some of my best friends are alumni. The emotional challenges we all went through are NOT necessary for a successful program and I welcome them becoming a thing of the past. A lot of my very strict philosophy on student and staff conduct comes from my own experiences, both positive and negative. Without going into the things I've heard, there needs to be some accountability for the band directors who have allowed their students to be abused like this. "Winning" is not worth that. |
|
|
|
Post by ilikeguard on Nov 17, 2023 10:17:25 GMT -6
This is going to be a good change for student wellbeing and the future of the program. My school shared a lot of staff with BA and some of my best friends are alumni. The emotional challenges we all went through are NOT necessary for a successful program and I welcome them becoming a thing of the past. A lot of my very strict philosophy on student and staff conduct comes from my own experiences, both positive and negative. With great respect for some of the products Cartwright has had a hand in producing, his teaching methods with children were a bit... harsh lol. As an alumni of a program that worked quite closely with that designer, I'm really hoping that more groups continue to distance themselves. No product is worth going through that, especially when other designers are frankly producing shows of equal (if not higher) quality. Well said! I think we’re living in a generation that is more perceptive of things that, while they were never okay to begin with, are now finally seen as unacceptable. We can look fondly on his and his team’s artistic achievements and advancement of the activity while also understanding that the students deserve to be around instructors who increase their confidence, not tear it down. The additional knowledge that more than a few of his clients have been unsatisfied with the material they’ve been given helps support my feelings on this. |
|
|
|
Post by OldSchoolTrumpet on Nov 17, 2023 10:23:15 GMT -6
This is going to be a good change for student wellbeing and the future of the program. My school shared a lot of staff with BA and some of my best friends are alumni. The emotional challenges we all went through are NOT necessary for a successful program and I welcome them becoming a thing of the past. A lot of my very strict philosophy on student and staff conduct comes from my own experiences, both positive and negative. With great respect for some of the products Cartwright has had a hand in producing, his teaching methods with children were a bit... harsh lol. As an alumni of a program that worked quite closely with that designer, I'm really hoping that more groups continue to distance themselves. No product is worth going through that, especially when other designers are frankly producing shows of equal (if not higher) quality. OK. When I first read about this seperation I assumed it was more along the lines of Cartwight perhaps spreading himself too thin and not giving BA the attention that they felt they needed. But it sounds a bit more ominous that just that. Very unfortunate. |
|
|
|
Post by ilikeguard on Nov 17, 2023 10:28:01 GMT -6
With great respect for some of the products Cartwright has had a hand in producing, his teaching methods with children were a bit... harsh lol. As an alumni of a program that worked quite closely with that designer, I'm really hoping that more groups continue to distance themselves. No product is worth going through that, especially when other designers are frankly producing shows of equal (if not higher) quality. OK. When I first read about this seperation I assumed it was more along the lines of Cartwight perhaps spreading himself too thin and not giving BA the attention that they felt they needed. But it sounds a bit more ominous that just that. Very unfortunate. Even if there was no inciting incident, I’m happy about it because I have not been satisfied with the culture within the band. I think the fact that the mention of a split is bringing up unsavory memories for other people says a lot. |
|
|
|
Post by marimba11 on Nov 17, 2023 13:10:18 GMT -6
Hmm... if BA is really splitting from Cartwright that would be earthshattering. What has it been 17 years with him? BA is great but I think finding a new identity would be difficult after one so cemented in a program like BA. Did Steve Vento used to work for BA back in the day?? That documentary *is gold if any of you haven't seen it.
I do think that like Bell, maybe the run is over and it is time to move on.
|
|
|
|
Post by ilikeguard on Nov 17, 2023 13:14:59 GMT -6
Hmm... if BA is really splitting from Cartwright that would be earthshattering. What has it been 17 years with him? BA is great but I think finding a new identity would be difficult after one so cemented in a program like BA. Did Steve Vento used to work for BA back in the day?? That documentary *is gold if any of you haven't seen it. I do think that like Bell, maybe the run is over and it is time to move on. Steve Vento coming back would be neat. I’m hoping Jordan Lalama is in the running now that he’s proven himself with O’Fallon 🤞🏻 but ultimately just want someone who will be kind to the kids and motivate them in a healthy way. |
|
|
|
Post by 70sguardchick on Nov 17, 2023 13:50:16 GMT -6
Came here to see if the rumor had any validity beyond a single mention on Reddit.....this should be interesting. Waiting to see if there are repercussions across other clients...
|
|
|
|
Post by paddy on Nov 17, 2023 16:02:54 GMT -6
By no means am I going to defend staff treating kids like crap, but let’s not act like this is the only school with this issue. Some very highly successful and admired programs treat their kids like crap.
|
|
|
|
Post by coleeich on Nov 17, 2023 17:41:14 GMT -6
BA actually hired me
The show is called "Beneath the Sea", inspired by the music of Spongebob Squarepants
Gonna be fire
|
|
|
|
Post by macwinlin on Nov 17, 2023 18:39:21 GMT -6
Hmm... if BA is really splitting from Cartwright that would be earthshattering. What has it been 17 years with him? BA is great but I think finding a new identity would be difficult after one so cemented in a program like BA. Did Steve Vento used to work for BA back in the day?? That documentary *is gold if any of you haven't seen it. I do think that like Bell, maybe the run is over and it is time to move on. Steve worked as an assistant director and music arranger there through 2003. Cartwright left Union for BA in 2002 for visual design and consultation. That role quickly expanded. I don’t see BA hiring the Ventos, but ya never know. I’m wondering about the thing Wes is known for most: the guard. Will BA take this opportunity to expand curriculum and develop a competitive winter program? They have the numbers, at least for now. 🙈 |
|
|
|
Post by ilikeguard on Nov 17, 2023 19:18:04 GMT -6
Not yall making a thread and calling it this I'm crying
|
|
|
|
Post by abtwitch on Nov 17, 2023 19:57:27 GMT -6
Not yall making a thread and calling it this I'm crying :^) |
|
|
|
Post by marimba11 on Nov 17, 2023 20:08:42 GMT -6
It was a rough transition for bell 2012-2014. But I don’t anticipate the marching or music to be affected with BA like bell was.
|
|
|
|
Post by boahistorybuff on Nov 18, 2023 4:36:08 GMT -6
I dont want to comment specifically on this situation because I do not have the background information. What I will say as someone who is working with the new generations that have been entering the workforce is that they demand to be treated with more respect and that is a good thing.
Back in the 1980s, it was pretty common for a lot of directors and staff to be harsh in their teaching methods. I saw it not just in my band but in many others. Screaming and yelling at kids and public humiliation of underperforming individuals was not uncommon. Now that was not all directors and instructors, but there certainly were a lot that did. There was very much a military style discipline approach to teaching marching bands. Actually that style of approach was common at all levels of education and in the workforce. Many of us older folks on these forums grew up in an era where elementary school principals had their paddles hanging on the wall in their office.
Times have certainly changed as has the approach to how to effectively teach and discipline kids. I by no means am justifying current behavior, but I suspect some of the older instructors may not fully understand how much times have changed. I also have to point out something else. I used to hear back in the day of one band director in particular that did not take that abrasive approach to teaching. He had one of the best bands in the country too. That director was the now retired Greg Bimm of Marian Catholic.
|
|
|
|
Post by hewhowaits on Nov 18, 2023 7:53:01 GMT -6
. I also have to point out something else. I used to hear back in the day of one band director in particular that did not take that abrasive approach to teaching. He had one of the best bands in the country too. That director was the now retired Greg Bimm of Marian Catholic. We should all aspire to be as good a person as Greg Bimm in all of our endeavors. I know I personally can't get there, but it can still be an aspirational goal. |
|
|
|
Post by N.E. Brigand on Nov 18, 2023 13:08:57 GMT -6
Back in the 1980s, it was pretty common for a lot of directors and staff to be harsh in their teaching methods. I saw it not just in my band but in many others. Screaming and yelling at kids and public humiliation of underperforming individuals was not uncommon. Now that was not all directors and instructors, but there certainly were a lot that did. There was very much a military style discipline approach to teaching marching bands. Actually that style of approach was common at all levels of education and in the workforce. Many of us older folks on these forums grew up in an era where elementary school principals had their paddles hanging on the wall in their office. My high school's "band camp" was merely the first three weeks in August we spent all day at rehearsal at school (which started just before Labor Day). During that period in both 1988 and 1989 our school hosted the Cadets for a day before they performed in Parma that night. (The first time, most of us hadn't heard of drum corps and were puzzled by the buses in the parking lot and the kids sleeping on the gym floor when we arrived.) They rehearsed on a field adjacent to our usual practice location. I have no idea who oversaw their day-to-day rehearsals, but I do remember our director telling us that if he talked to us like that person talked to the Cadets' members, he'd surely be fired. (And yes the elementary and middle school principals absolutely had paddles then.) |
|
