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Post by tigertail on Nov 1, 2023 20:07:41 GMT -6
Wait which band are u talking about? Concord. I get that they’re larger but the only band that came close to them in volume was northside. Doing a jazz show was definitely the right call for them. Being loud doesn't mean you are better.
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Post by trombonefatty on Nov 1, 2023 21:15:09 GMT -6
Concord. I get that they’re larger but the only band that came close to them in volume was northside. Doing a jazz show was definitely the right call for them. Being loud doesn't mean you are better. I Never said that. I just really don’t like the full ensemble mics. Concord was the loudest by far and had great blend at times but also a super simple book. I also saw most of class A mic the whole band and I don’t like it there either. I also don’t like that the colts are the loudest drum corps because the blast the crap out of their speakers
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Post by hewhowaits on Nov 2, 2023 4:56:59 GMT -6
Concord. I get that they’re larger but the only band that came close to them in volume was northside. Doing a jazz show was definitely the right call for them. Being loud doesn't mean you are better. It does if you're from Texas, especially a fan from Texas.
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Post by altosandclarinets on Nov 2, 2023 14:19:00 GMT -6
Being loud doesn't mean you are better. That’s debatable lol. Playing loud is one thing but having a band that can play loud and it actually sounds good (tone and balance) sets them apart.
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Post by horndad on Nov 2, 2023 14:32:41 GMT -6
Being loud doesn't mean you are better. I Never said that. I just really don’t like the full ensemble mics. Concord was the loudest by far and had great blend at times but also a super simple book. I also saw most of class A mic the whole band and I don’t like it there either. I also don’t like that the colts are the loudest drum corps because the blast the crap out of their speakers Also having a band much larger than the rest of the field (yes Concord, North Side) helps.
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Post by tigertail on Nov 2, 2023 20:47:27 GMT -6
I Never said that. I just really don’t like the full ensemble mics. Concord was the loudest by far and had great blend at times but also a super simple book. I also saw most of class A mic the whole band and I don’t like it there either. I also don’t like that the colts are the loudest drum corps because the blast the crap out of their speakers Also having a band much larger than the rest of the field (yes Concord, North Side) helps. It does? If I remember correctly Evansville North won class B so inform me how being large like Concord helps? Don't misunderstand I like Concordjust don't see that size was beneficial to them last week
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Post by horndad on Nov 2, 2023 21:25:52 GMT -6
Also having a band much larger than the rest of the field (yes Concord, North Side) helps. It does? If I remember correctly Evansville North won class B so inform me how being large like Concord helps? Don't misunderstand I like Concordjust don't see that size was beneficial to them last week I was replying to trombonefatty and how much louder he says Concord and North Side were. Of course they are louder. I am pointing out how huge those bands are compared to the rest which helps with volume, not the score.
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Post by bachstrad43 on Nov 3, 2023 5:59:42 GMT -6
Using field mics can do wonders for the soundscape of the show...when it's done correctly.
For example, if the woodwinds are on the "house-left" back corner of the field but are heard from the sideline speakers at "house-right", and their sound is overpowering the rest of the ensemble, then the sound design is off balance. The judges will recognize that.
I will admit, as a marching member of the early '90s, I was very anti-electronics when it became common practice. Now, I understand that it can add value to a show. When it's done correctly.
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Post by horndad on Nov 3, 2023 9:45:16 GMT -6
It's too bad the high cam didn't work for the Finals. I was able to see North's performance via high cam and man, what a difference! So much was lost in multicam view. Hope this is fixed next year. It would be really hard to scrutinize any band that day if only going by what was shown on multicam.
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Post by hewhowaits on Nov 3, 2023 10:04:59 GMT -6
It's too bad the high cam didn't work for the Finals. I was able to see North's performance via high cam and man, what a difference! So much was lost in multicam view. Hope this is fixed next year. It would be really hard to scrutinize any band that day if only going by what was shown on multicam. It's hard to get a decent read on any band at any event via multicam. Just listening is better than jumping around to different pieces that the broadcast director chooses during the show.
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Post by mrmatthews on Nov 3, 2023 10:18:58 GMT -6
It's too bad the high cam didn't work for the Finals. I was able to see North's performance via high cam and man, what a difference! So much was lost in multicam view. Hope this is fixed next year. It would be really hard to scrutinize any band that day if only going by what was shown on multicam. I've seen the high cam of a Class C show, and the camera-person had it panned about 15 yards off center to the left! UGGHH! Unacceptable.
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Post by 21saxmom on Nov 6, 2023 12:25:35 GMT -6
It's too bad the high cam didn't work for the Finals. I was able to see North's performance via high cam and man, what a difference! So much was lost in multicam view. Hope this is fixed next year. It would be really hard to scrutinize any band that day if only going by what was shown on multicam. I agree that the multi cam was awful - I didn't know ISSMA even had a high cam. I asked Box5 and they told me they did not produce the show, they just streamed it. And that they were only provided a multi cam. How are you guys seeing a high cam?
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Post by horndad on Nov 6, 2023 17:39:32 GMT -6
It's too bad the high cam didn't work for the Finals. I was able to see North's performance via high cam and man, what a difference! So much was lost in multicam view. Hope this is fixed next year. It would be really hard to scrutinize any band that day if only going by what was shown on multicam. I agree that the multi cam was awful - I didn't know ISSMA even had a high cam. I asked Box5 and they told me they did not produce the show, they just streamed it. And that they were only provided a multi cam. How are you guys seeing a high cam? It was shared with me by a band member a few days after the performance. I assume the directors had access to it or brought their own camera.
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Post by paddy on Nov 6, 2023 18:36:18 GMT -6
I agree that the multi cam was awful - I didn't know ISSMA even had a high cam. I asked Box5 and they told me they did not produce the show, they just streamed it. And that they were only provided a multi cam. How are you guys seeing a high cam? It was shared with me by a band member a few days after the performance. I assume the directors had access to it or brought their own camera. ISSMA used to provide a high cam recording to bands I believe
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Post by lylaaaaa on Nov 6, 2023 20:57:31 GMT -6
Me too... My sister goes to Carroll now (I went to homestead) and they were all disappointed in their run after, however, I still think they deserved more. They are such a great band this year!!! The entire season until state they got either 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th and nothing higher. I know many of them are grieving everything right now and heavily disappointed. Sending love to all of them ♥️ 7th is still a step up from 8th. Every band will have a place in the end and someone had to have 7th. Does that mean they did bad? No, just the other bands pulled ahead by just a tiny amount. I tend to see shows rank fairly well on school football fields and then all of a sudden they drop a lot. But Lucas oil state finals is a different ballpark. The tape is different, the sound echos, you have a lot more people watching you, and it’s not just your band against a few other bands at the same preformence level but it’s the top 10 bands in the state. It’s easy to score high when your competitors are lower caliber than you but then combine the top ten and it makes the judges job hard. That being said the score range from center grove, to Carroll was TIGHT. The bands they were up against are known to push at the end and it can be hard to pass some. If that wasn’t their best run like you say, I have no doubt they will come back amazing for grand nats. This stuff happens, some bands just push hard for a week to pull ahead, sometimes the judges make calls you don’t like. Also this is ISSMA judging it’s kind of weird… Yes ofc it's a step up from 8th, however it's still disappointing to see after they almost got 3rd at semi state. I know they didn't have an awesome run at state, but I know they're gonna come back with a vengeance at Nationals!
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Post by lylaaaaa on Nov 6, 2023 20:59:35 GMT -6
Me too... My sister goes to Carroll now (I went to homestead) and they were all disappointed in their run after, however, I still think they deserved more. They are such a great band this year!!! The entire season until state they got either 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th and nothing higher. I know many of them are grieving everything right now and heavily disappointed. Sending love to all of them ♥️ They are "grieving" and "heavily disappointed "!!?? C'mon get real, it's a band competition, they made it to state! Be happy Hey, that's not always how things go, you should understand that. They are very happy they made it to state, but the whole season they never got a rank lower than 4th place and almost got 3rd ad semi state, so they have a right to be disappointed, especially heo they usually don't get top 5 (or ever). Just watch out at grand nats for them
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Post by horndad on Nov 7, 2023 10:57:41 GMT -6
It sure would be nice to see the weather reports before GNs this weekend!
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Post by redpants on Nov 7, 2023 11:31:20 GMT -6
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Post by imakepropsmiracles on Nov 7, 2023 17:27:07 GMT -6
patiently waiting for the Class D recap........ I hear it is quite a sight.
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Post by horndad on Nov 8, 2023 9:18:01 GMT -6
patiently waiting for the Class D recap........ I hear it is quite a sight. While we wait, for all of you high-cam lovers, I came across this YT channel: www.youtube.com/@dnb1957Not sure how long those will be up (not my channel). The quality is not good but it's better than nothing!
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Post by paddy on Nov 8, 2023 15:56:54 GMT -6
patiently waiting for the Class D recap........ I hear it is quite a sight. I just want to see if that label was as terrible as they were during B.
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Post by sheperd135188 on Nov 9, 2023 10:44:15 GMT -6
patiently waiting for the Class D recap........ I hear it is quite a sight. I just want to see if that label was as terrible as they were during B. wdym?
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Post by dcitop on Nov 11, 2023 22:04:02 GMT -6
This is an interesting observation. Maybe it's similar to what I've noticed about BOA Grand Nationals: the judges seem to be better at making distinctions at the top (i.e., the best of Class A) than in the middle (i.e., the best of Class D) of the realm of possible scores. While there's some fair ground of merit here, I would say that's a poor example. I'd say, for Grand Nationals, it's specifically their job to find the best bands to move on so organizing the 100 bands by performance is a secondary aim. Honestly, most the rankers struggle with figuring out where to put the bands in 30th-50th tier, imagine a judge trying to rank 50 bands (often on the fly) while trying to stay balanced between the two panels.... Yeah, yeah, I get the counterargument "but training! Years of experience! Expertise!". Judges are still human. The other part that makes Class D so volatile is that the programs themselves are so affected by typical changes- departure of staff, graduating classes, budgets, recruiting, etc. Forest Park, Springs Valley, and Lewis Cass (Paoli in the past also) are all survived by the incredible legacies their directors left behind*. Every other program has struggled with just staying relevant, sometimes only because the band directors themselves are extremely passionate people- Michael Satterthwaite (Adams Central, ), Terry Burton (Orleans)**, Natasha Edmonton (Tell City), and Robert O. Slattery (Woodlawn). Even Springs Valley is starting to become outwardly affected at this point with Aylsworth leaving not long ago, although the program is still quite healthy from all the community love SV receives. It is so hard to predict because D bands tend to be centered around southern Indiana and the few competitive D bands in the north don't have much of a barometer to compare against, so no one really knows if a north 62 is really a south 75 and vice versa. That's why you tend to see a few random surprises in state finals in D. I find more often as long as the typically strong shows are still advancing, the surprises tend to be well warranted. No one really knows until regionals, and even so, there's a fair argument that semi-state is the only true look at Class D bands face-to-face get before state. *A bit too long of an aside, but because it's fun: -Lewis Cass with Terry Collins, Mike Clark (RIP), Don Krug, Andrew Muth (briefly), and Alan Hinshaw. -Forest Park with Gene Keusch and Chad Gayso. -Springs Valley with the amazing Aylsworth legacy of John Aylsworth and Luke Aylsworth. **It took YEARS for Orleans to get to the point of being a state finalist in D. Burton was behind it all. Fairfield (now in C) spent a lot of building in Class D, having lots of success for a while, then ebbing and flowing a bit. Been very good since moving up to C.
Northwestern (also now in C) did a lot of building that program from basically nothing in Class D to now where they are consistent finishers in Class C - 5th this year. Their director team has been together for something like 20 years now and showing no signs of slowing down.
Here's some fun: the rumor is there's a chance they could both be back in D next year...
Class D is a crazy place. Lots of turnover but somehow the top programs seem to stay consistent. Many of the programs TheWho named (and Fairfield and Northwestern) have components that have stayed there for a long time.
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