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Post by Woodwinds on Nov 17, 2024 15:27:15 GMT -6
So could someone give me a breakdown of top 22 and next 8? Not what it means but who is where. It is no longer the "top 22." It is truly the top 11 from each panel. It is not unlikely that some of the bands from panel 2 that landed in the next 8 highest scoring bands outside of the panel top 11s scored higher than some of the top 11 of panel 1. Can you share some insight as to why it is done that way? Forgive my ignorance, it’s hard to wrap my mind around. I can’t imagine ranking 100+ bands! |
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Post by paddy on Nov 17, 2024 15:33:05 GMT -6
It is no longer the "top 22." It is truly the top 11 from each panel. It is not unlikely that some of the bands from panel 2 that landed in the next 8 highest scoring bands outside of the panel top 11s scored higher than some of the top 11 of panel 1. Can you share some insight as to why it is done that way? Forgive my ignorance, it’s hard to wrap my mind around. I can’t imagine ranking 100+ bands! It changed for the 2023 season and I’m not sure we ever heard an explanation as to why. It used to be that you identified the top 30 using this method, but then you put them into performance order on straight score regardless of panel. I too would be interested to know if anybody else has ever heard why they did this. |
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Post by Woodwinds on Nov 17, 2024 15:55:21 GMT -6
Seems like an unnecessary stray It is my understanding that the process has started to rescore state finals. ISSMA is considering giving Evansville North the 2024 and 25 state championships and second place in the 2024 class A state championship as well as an automatic qualification into all four classes at the 2025 state championships. It is my understanding that the process has started to rescore state finals (which is probably best discussed in another thread) and rumor has it that no one wins. Just have to keep on shining the light, painting the stripes, and asking ourselves am I good enough? Have I achieved enough? Any way the wind blows it doesn’t really matter to me. |
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Post by thewho on Nov 17, 2024 16:03:12 GMT -6
It is my understanding that the process has started to rescore state finals. ISSMA is considering giving Evansville North the 2024 and 25 state championships and second place in the 2024 class A state championship as well as an automatic qualification into all four classes at the 2025 state championships. It is my understanding that the process has started to rescore state finals (which is probably best discussed in another thread) and rumor has it that no one wins. Just have to keep on shining the light, painting the stripes, and asking ourselves am I good enough? Have I achieved enough? Any way the wind blows it doesn’t really matter to me. Oh my lord. There's no rescoring. ISSMA state has already happened. Greenfield-Central won. Evansville North and Greenwood tied. It's final. You and jp73 cut it out right now. This is both of your last chances. You will both get banned if there are any more comments about this, even quoting this post or responding to Allohak, me, or anywhere else about 2024 Class B. |
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Post by Woodwinds on Nov 17, 2024 16:48:56 GMT -6
Way to go Cass!!! So excited for my amazing niece and the entire Cass H.S. marching band. Such a great accomplishment on their first time attending. Go colonels. 💙💛 I am a Cass fan! I first learned about them at BOA Chattanooga Regional watching my kiddo perform in a different band. Their story telling style caught my attention, I later looked up their previous shows on YouTube and fell in love. I think their band would be so much fun to be in! |
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 17, 2024 20:22:38 GMT -6
In the end it was only Union and Bartlett that were in the “top 22” but had scores outside of the top 22. But I think it’s pretty clear panel 2 probably was scored a bit lower than panel 1 but not by huge margins like some thought. I think you can make the argument for Mustang had they been in panel 1 they might have pushed someone else out and made that top 11. But I don’t think you could make that argument for Stoneman Douglas
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 17, 2024 22:31:45 GMT -6
Green Level and Panther Creek down in the 70s! Def didn’t have that on my bingo card either
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Post by ncscbandfan on Nov 18, 2024 8:01:19 GMT -6
Green Level and Panther Creek down in the 70s! Def didn’t have that on my bingo card either NC bands seem to keep falling behind. Not sure what is going on, but either the quality has gone down across the board, or NC is staying the same and everyone else is growing faster and they aren't keeping up. I've always thought it was strange that an area with a very established band association, and a large population of bands, doesn't have an organized state championships system. |
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 18, 2024 11:02:46 GMT -6
I was really impressed with Westlake last year at St. George, surprised to see them out semis. Their score fell 3 points from St. George this year to prelims - still a pretty high score though.
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 18, 2024 17:18:10 GMT -6
What happened to South Jones?? They were really pretty good last year at Troy. But being in the 60s certainly doesn't tell that story
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Post by cornet on Nov 18, 2024 17:39:34 GMT -6
Green Level and Panther Creek down in the 70s! Def didn’t have that on my bingo card either Three things. My opinion only with limited views. 1) it was simply a down year. For instance, Green Level's best two shows have been off cycle for Nationals. 2) I do think the bands from NC aren't *quite* as ambitious in seeking out world class designers. I think things are a little more homegrown. And I could argue it's not a bad thing that many of them aren't willing to abandon their local ties. But I do feel like they have a ceiling and it's a tradeoff that is in fact leaving them further behind. 3) I just don't think the culture here is quite as supportive of the activity as in some areas. reality is that the area is all STEM and medical and Duke, UNC and NC State. Kids are competing intensely for a slot in those programs. That's what the kids value or are taught to value |
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Post by cornet on Nov 18, 2024 17:42:28 GMT -6
Green Level and Panther Creek down in the 70s! Def didn’t have that on my bingo card either NC bands seem to keep falling behind. Not sure what is going on, but either the quality has gone down across the board, or NC is staying the same and everyone else is growing faster and they aren't keeping up. I've always thought it was strange that an area with a very established band association, and a large population of bands, doesn't have an organized state championships system. Cary, Lincoln County, and a few other pockets. North Carolina isn't a strong band state if you seriously look at it. What's REALLY striking is the Charlotte area and how far those bands lag behind the Fort Mill area bands...when Fort Mill is largely a suburb of Charlotte. |
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Nov 18, 2024 17:46:03 GMT -6
Some of you might remember that I ranked all 113 bands as I was viewing them. While I'm not going to clog the forum with my (now-useless) list, I will instead clog it with some stats (I have removed Norwood as they were unscored): I was off by an average of approximately 7 places for each band. I don't think this is too terrible of a job on my part, considering that I got 19 of the semifinalists within 3 places of reality. I got 8 bands' prelims placements exactly correct ... Another 14 were one placement off ... An additional 15 were two placements off ... Finally, I had 8 that were three placements off ...
The top ten bands I most overscored:
1. Camdenton (25th -> 64th, +39, ilikeguard I am so sorry)
2. Shawe Memorial (80th -> 110th, +30)
3. Simon Kenton (83rd -> 103rd, +20)
4. Panther Creek (52nd -> 70th, +18)
T5. Dixie Heights (58th -> 75th, +17)
T5. Cheney (41st -> 58th, +17)
T5. Marian Catholic (27th -> 44th, +17)
8. Bob Jones (44th -> 60th, +16)
T9. Owen County (97th -> 111th, +14)
T9. Meade County (93rd -> 107th, +14)
The top ten (actually eleven) bands I most underscored:
1. Miamisburg (77th -> 50th, -27)
2. PCEP (64th -> 41st, -23)
3. Rockford (38th -> 16th, -22)
T4. Cass (54th -> 36th, -18)
T4. DeWitt (71st -> 53rd, -18)
T4. Newberry (109th -> 91st, -18)
7. Milford (82nd -> 65th, -17)
T8. Walter E. Stebbins (84th -> 69th, -15)
T8. Cary (86th -> 71st, -15)
T10. Ben Davis (68th -> 54th, -14)
T10. East Clinton (111th -> 97th, -14)
Overall, I'm actually pretty impressed with myself, especially at the top end of the field. That's a nice approach! As you know, I saw only 112 bands, but conveniently the one I missed was the one that the judges (and you) ranked last, so I can set that score aside, and having now turned my pen-and-paper notes into something sortable, I find that the judges were off my ranking by an average of 7.46 placements per band. (I wonder if it would be worthwhile to do this exercise for each panel.) The six bands whose placement the judges thought I got exactly right were: Broken Arrow (4th), Centerville (42nd), Reeths-Puffer (49th), Cambridge (52nd), Boyle County (83rd), Kalida (98th). The sixteen bands whose rank the judges disagreed with me by one place were: Tarpon Springs, Carmel, William Mason, Cedar Park, Leander, O'Fallon Township, Homestead, Fishers, Argyle, Cass, Marian Catholic, Clover, Greenfield Central, Camdenton, Lebanon, and Carlisle. The seven bands where the judges and I disagreed by two placements were: Avon (IN), American Fork, Brownsburg, South Oldham, Finneytown, John Hardin, and Herscher. And the six bands where I parted ways with the judges by three placements were: Castle, Dobyns-Bennett, Walled Lake, South Dearborn, Monticello, and Owen County. These are the eleven bands I ranked higher than the judges by the most placements: 1. Panther Creek (27th vs. 70th: +43) 2. Simon Kenton (81st vs. 103rd: +22 3. Cheney (37th vs. 58th: +21) 4. Columbus (38th vs. 57th: +19) 5. Shawe Memorial (93rd vs. 110th: +17) T6. Nixa (40th vs. 55th: +15) T6. Cary (56th vs. 71st: +15) 8. Campbell County (34th vs. 48th: +14) T9. Mustang (18th vs. 31st: +13) T9. Clarksville (82nd vs. 95th: +13) T9. Christian Academy of Louisville (88th vs. 101st: +13) It's interesting that Cheney, Panther Creek, Simon Kenton, and Shawe Memorial appear on both your list and mine. Finally, these are the ten bands I ranked lower than the judges by the most placements: 1. Lincoln-Way (54th vs. 22nd: -32) 2. Franklin (55th vs. 29th: -26) 3. DeSoto Central (86th vs. 63rd: -23) 4. Deer Creek (48th vs. 28th: -20) 5. South Jones (79th vs. 62nd: -17) 6. Colerain (110th vs. 94th: -16) T7. Miamisburg (66th vs. 50th: -16) T7. Plymouth-Canton (57th vs. 41st: -16) 9. Nicholas County (91st vs. 77th: -14) 10. Floyd Central (58th vs. 45th: -13) Here the only overlap between your list and mine is Plymouth-Canton and Miamisburg. I wonder if I let the MSBA judges' scores for Miamisburg go to my head. Turning to Semifinals, while the judges and I disagreed on many placements (particularly for the Class A bands!), this is the first time, i think, that we've agreed on which twelve bands should be in Finals. |
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 18, 2024 21:05:29 GMT -6
NC bands seem to keep falling behind. Not sure what is going on, but either the quality has gone down across the board, or NC is staying the same and everyone else is growing faster and they aren't keeping up. I've always thought it was strange that an area with a very established band association, and a large population of bands, doesn't have an organized state championships system. Cary, Lincoln County, and a few other pockets. North Carolina isn't a strong band state if you seriously look at it. What's REALLY striking is the Charlotte area and how far those bands lag behind the Fort Mill area bands...when Fort Mill is largely a suburb of Charlotte. I can answer that question. Fort Mill absolutely is a Charlotte suburb. Clover is too. Fort Mill also quite literally an island separated from the rest of South Carolina by the Catawba River to the south. Fort Mill these days gets all the good paying jobs of Charlotte but can put the money back into things like marching band and great schools instead of Charlotte large city programs for infrastructure, poverty, and other failing CMS schools with enormous bureaucracies. |
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Nov 18, 2024 23:59:28 GMT -6
The pacing is what does it for me. If Blue Springs has mastered the elegant outro, Broken Arrow seems to have figured out a way to build an opener with such a huge amount of depth without making it feel like it's drawn out. In reality, that introduction that begins after the announcement lasts for quite a while before we feel our first big impact, but the intentional layering of both the instrumentation and movement is so captivating and almost gives you a feeling like you're "testing the waters" while moving out to the unpredictable and violent sea. It's beautifully constructed. This one definitely took three viewings before I finally see how brilliant of a production it is. 100%!! The opener is long and I didn't get bored. This comment interests me because I generally feel that shows' introductory movements are too short. In general, I'd rather they be skipped entirely: just start the show with the first "real" song. But if it's going to be there, I want something that develops. |
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Post by N.E. Brigand on Nov 19, 2024 0:02:02 GMT -6
Broken Arrow cheering from the photo stands for East Clinton as they exit the field is top notch character moment! Love this! Broken Arrow is over at the side waiting to get their photo taken, and when East Clinton came off the field, they went WILD cheering for them. How sweet. This moment seems to have been remembered. |
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Post by hewhowaits on Nov 19, 2024 6:53:14 GMT -6
Broken Arrow cheering from the photo stands for East Clinton as they exit the field is top notch character moment! Love this! Broken Arrow is over at the side waiting to get their photo taken, and when East Clinton came off the field, they went WILD cheering for them. How sweet. This moment seems to have been remembered. Just one of the many bands that received a standing ovation from Broken Arrow students that lasted from the final note of the show until the last band member was off the field. Many event staff noted this and nominated BA for the Esprit de Corps award. |
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Post by ohioguy2 on Nov 19, 2024 8:55:25 GMT -6
There has been a lot of discussion on here about how this was by far the most competitive prelims in Grand National history. I think another statistic that reflects that is that this had by far the highest "cut score" to get into semifinals since at least BOA went to the 4 class system. In fact, the score that was 31st last year would have been 46th this year. Westlake and Mustang each scored 84.725 and missed semis, which was 0.625 higher than the previous high 31st place score.
If you're curious, here are the highest 31st place scores since 4 classes were adopted:
84.725 - Westlake and Mustang (2024)
84.1 - Rockford (2016)
83.5 - Miamisburg (2021)
83.15 - Walled Lake (2018) - was 32nd since there was a tie for 30th
82.5 - Miamisburg and Campbell County (2022) and Cary (2017)
82.0 - Bourbon County (2019)
There were just so many great bands that attended this year.
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Post by rickyrosay on Nov 19, 2024 9:15:25 GMT -6
There has been a lot of discussion on here about how this was by far the most competitive prelims in Grand National history. I think another statistic that reflects that is that this had by far the highest "cut score" to get into semifinals since at least BOA went to the 4 class system. In fact, the score that was 31st last year would have been 46th this year. Westlake and Mustang each scored 84.725 and missed semis, which was 0.625 higher than the previous high 31st place score. If you're curious, here are the highest 31st place scores since 4 classes were adopted: 84.725 - Westlake and Mustang (2024) 84.1 - Rockford (2016) 83.5 - Miamisburg (2021) 83.15 - Walled Lake (2018) - was 32nd since there was a tie for 30th 82.5 - Miamisburg and Campbell County (2022) and Cary (2017) 82.0 - Bourbon County (2019) There were just so many great bands that attended this year. To piggy back off of that. 77 bands all scoring a 70 or higher has to be some sort of first as well, right? |
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Post by ohioguy2 on Nov 19, 2024 9:19:00 GMT -6
There has been a lot of discussion on here about how this was by far the most competitive prelims in Grand National history. I think another statistic that reflects that is that this had by far the highest "cut score" to get into semifinals since at least BOA went to the 4 class system. In fact, the score that was 31st last year would have been 46th this year. Westlake and Mustang each scored 84.725 and missed semis, which was 0.625 higher than the previous high 31st place score. If you're curious, here are the highest 31st place scores since 4 classes were adopted: 84.725 - Westlake and Mustang (2024) 84.1 - Rockford (2016) 83.5 - Miamisburg (2021) 83.15 - Walled Lake (2018) - was 32nd since there was a tie for 30th 82.5 - Miamisburg and Campbell County (2022) and Cary (2017) 82.0 - Bourbon County (2019) There were just so many great bands that attended this year. To piggy back off of that. 77 bands all scoring a 70 or higher has to be some sort of first as well, right? Most I could find previously was 70 in 2016. |
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Post by cornet on Nov 19, 2024 10:12:24 GMT -6
Cary, Lincoln County, and a few other pockets. North Carolina isn't a strong band state if you seriously look at it. What's REALLY striking is the Charlotte area and how far those bands lag behind the Fort Mill area bands...when Fort Mill is largely a suburb of Charlotte. I can answer that question. Fort Mill absolutely is a Charlotte suburb. Clover is too. Fort Mill also quite literally an island separated from the rest of South Carolina by the Catawba River to the south. Fort Mill these days gets all the good paying jobs of Charlotte but can put the money back into things like marching band and great schools instead of Charlotte large city programs for infrastructure, poverty, and other failing CMS schools with enormous bureaucracies. I'm sure that's partly true but Myers Park area is rich rich rich. Ardrey Kell also. There's more to it than money.its culture. |
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 19, 2024 11:05:30 GMT -6
I can answer that question. Fort Mill absolutely is a Charlotte suburb. Clover is too. Fort Mill also quite literally an island separated from the rest of South Carolina by the Catawba River to the south. Fort Mill these days gets all the good paying jobs of Charlotte but can put the money back into things like marching band and great schools instead of Charlotte large city programs for infrastructure, poverty, and other failing CMS schools with enormous bureaucracies. I'm sure that's partly true but Myers Park area is rich rich rich. Ardrey Kell also. There's more to it than money.its culture. Of course even more than FM, but they have to contribute taxes to subpar schools and inner city programs ect. FM does not. You could also go down the line to say FM is part of a robust state circuit that has been around for literally ages fostering competition and innovation in teaching band. NC as you know has nothing like that. |
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Post by marimba11 on Nov 20, 2024 13:15:24 GMT -6
I’ve watched Mustang a few times now. They’re good at the big moments. Musically I can see why the MPI score was low and the MPE was high. GE wasn’t really the issue.
I happen to like the show but it certainly wasn’t as dynamic as the shark show or the dinosaur show.
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