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UIL
Dec 17, 2020 15:42:39 GMT -6
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Post by ohioguy2 on Dec 17, 2020 15:42:39 GMT -6
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UIL
Dec 17, 2020 17:35:01 GMT -6
Post by thewho on Dec 17, 2020 17:35:01 GMT -6
I'll let someone far more educated in Texas arts jump in with any extra details here, but the gist:
UIL is massive in Texas. I don't believe there are any penalties of sort of not choosing to compete in UIL (CTJ didn't for a year), but UIL does have a history of strong-arming ISD's into competing (don't quote me on this). Regardless, UIL being a such a long-standing tradition in Texas and the football mentality (by proxy, marching band) makes UIL a requirement for a lot of schools.
This year's schedule would have 2021 UIL State 1A/3A/5A the weekdays (11/8-11/10) after BOA San Antonio (11/4-11/5). However, in attempting to give bands a fair shot due to the pandemic, UIL has now bumped the 2A/4A/6A state a year early. UIL is making state work on two different weekdays- 1A/3A/5A during 11/1-11/3 and 2A/4A/6A during 11/8-11/10. If you're not keeping track, that's only 2 days after San Antonio. That means 6A bands, opting into Grand Nats, will be competing over a duration of an entire week. That's a full week of school missed. Superintendents would be really, really hesitant. At least, they probably would've been back in the olden days, when band wasn't as huge as it is now. Given how huge band is in Texas now and the (extremely) high potential of gaining national recognition at Grand Nats, I think most would be okay with letting this happen. But again, it's a full week of school missed.
Other than needing ISD's to be willing to give up a week of school for band, I don't think this hurts a lot of Texan bands too much. Texan bands have been consistently finding success while straddling the stark differences between UIL and BOA pretty well the last few years since 2016 or so. I think it's safe to say that a fair majority of the 2018 6A state finalist shows had found a lot of success in BOA those years (I see people arguing FloMo would've beaten Carmel in 2018. I scoff at that notion... but it's fair to say FloMo would've been a top 3 finalist at Grand Nats had they gone). UIL has been introducing new sheets that are geared more towards the BOA standard today, whereas the old sheets were more performance-oriented. Don't ask me for details, but it's been in the works for a while now.
That's the basic facts there. Now some brief speculation on politics in the band world (yes, it exists): UIL has a bit of that Texan stubbornness of thinking their sheets being superior- quite frankly, with how ridiculously high-standard music education is valued in Texas, I understand the sentiment. Recently, however, BOA has been peeling off the Texas bands significantly through the years. In the wake of Scott McCormick's departure, BOA has been catering more to the Texas base as the state's interest grew to the point of getting a regional ever weekend and the first ever double regional. UIL has always been at a conflicting philosophy with BOA and that tension has always interfered with each other over many, many years. Trust me- the UIL/BOA puzzle had always been extremely difficult to crack. Ronald Reagan doing well in BOA never really meant they did well in UIL, Winston Churchill vice versa, etc. LD Bell and Marcus were some of the first to get the formula right, but always leaning towards one or the other and there were never really any bands on par with those two during their reigns in the late '00s and early '10s.
As we can tell with rise of prominence of Texas ever since, the puzzle has been figured out as meta of UIL/BOA style had begun shifting away from purely optimizing shows for performance to finding ways to accommodate GE while keeping high levels of performance. I can't really quite say if bands were starting to feel a desire to begin prioritizing BOA over UIL (I don't think so), but UIL definitely has felt a little peeved by the explosion of BOA in the state over the decade. In order to try to keep the focus back on UIL, UIL has been discussing holding state every year. I think the plans were always there, but the pandemic had forced them to pull the trigger early. If things go well, they would likely continue to do so in the current format up there. *End speculation
Let's be clear here- this isn't all 100% UIL taking actions on its own. Many, many of Texan bands have been asking for this in a recent survey. BOA, for however expansive and welcoming they are, can't hold more than 80 bands for the San Antonio Super. The waitlist is very, very long and directors always clamor for a chance to perform in the Alamodome every year. Expanding state for all classes every year would allow directors to do so. All of the above is exactly what it is and shouldn't be taken too seriously- speculation.
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UIL
Dec 18, 2020 6:02:55 GMT -6
Post by boahistorybuff on Dec 18, 2020 6:02:55 GMT -6
I too am not a Texan. I am going to guess that what this means is that there will be no 6A Texas bands attending Grand Nationals in 2021. Some 5A bands are a possibility, maybe if they skip San Antonio. I am going to speculate that after the 2020 Covid fall, the Texas bands are going to want to partake in the UIL State Championships in 2021. This could in turn open the door to an insanely competitive 2022 Grand Nationals. Seeing as Texas has nice weather throughout November and into December (at least from the perspective of this northerner), it would be nice if the UIL state championships were a little bit later to alleviate the conflicts.
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UIL
Dec 18, 2020 8:07:10 GMT -6
Post by Samuel Culper on Dec 18, 2020 8:07:10 GMT -6
I too am not a Texan. I am going to guess that what this means is that there will be no 6A Texas bands attending Grand Nationals in 2021. Some 5A bands are a possibility, maybe if they skip San Antonio. I am going to speculate that after the 2020 Covid fall, the Texas bands are going to want to partake in the UIL State Championships in 2021. This could in turn open the door to an insanely competitive 2022 Grand Nationals. Seeing as Texas has nice weather throughout November and into December (at least from the perspective of this northerner), it would be nice if the UIL state championships were a little bit later to alleviate the conflicts. I don't think this is true. The rumors about all classes going to State next year have been out there for quite a while and the directors are aware and still have been proceeding with plans for GNats. Vista Ridge, for example, held their parent informational meeting for the GNats trip with the Music Travel Consultants people just two days ago. They aren't delaying another year.
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UIL
Dec 18, 2020 8:57:47 GMT -6
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Post by thewho on Dec 18, 2020 8:57:47 GMT -6
There's been a ton of discussion already within many Texas programs about going to Grand Nats. 2021 will see another huge contingent, regardless of attending UIL 6A or not.
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Deleted
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UIL
Dec 18, 2020 9:14:47 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2020 9:14:47 GMT -6
I believe the directors have suspected this was going to happen. Round Rock's band calendar shows them only going as far as area. They never marked down state.
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UIL
Dec 18, 2020 22:13:16 GMT -6
Post by boahistorybuff on Dec 18, 2020 22:13:16 GMT -6
I too am not a Texan. I am going to guess that what this means is that there will be no 6A Texas bands attending Grand Nationals in 2021. Some 5A bands are a possibility, maybe if they skip San Antonio. I am going to speculate that after the 2020 Covid fall, the Texas bands are going to want to partake in the UIL State Championships in 2021. This could in turn open the door to an insanely competitive 2022 Grand Nationals. Seeing as Texas has nice weather throughout November and into December (at least from the perspective of this northerner), it would be nice if the UIL state championships were a little bit later to alleviate the conflicts. I don't think this is true. The rumors about all classes going to State next year have been out there for quite a while and the directors are aware and still have been proceeding with plans for GNats. Vista Ridge, for example, held their parent informational meeting for the GNats trip with the Music Travel Consultants people just two days ago. They aren't delaying another year. That is very good to hear. I do hope we see some 6A bands at Grand Nats in 2021. Who knows, maybe Vista Ridge can pull of a Vandegrift.
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Post by abtwitch on Dec 19, 2020 15:24:12 GMT -6
UIL will probably not go towards and annual state competition for every class anytime soon, the biggest reason being travel costs for the more rural programs.
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CTJBandPops
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children are apt to live up to what you believe of them - Claudia Taylor "Lady Bird" Johnson
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Post by CTJBandPops on Dec 20, 2020 14:33:55 GMT -6
over the past few years, UIL has been working to change the UIL State Marching Competition. in 2019, they ran a "shadow judging" that included 7 judges and was much closer to the BOA style of judging. it was going to be implemented in 2020 but was delayed due to the changes already impacting the events due to Covid. I expect the new judging will come into use in 2021
Another change was getting to an Area Champion every year for all classes and possibly getting a State Champion for all classes every year and that will all happen in 2021. Here is what the schedule will look like in San Antonio in November 2021
Session 1: Monday, November 1: 5A Prelims (morning, afternoon, evening)
Session 2: Tuesday, November 2: 1A Prelims (morning), 5A Finals (afternoon)
Session 3: Tuesday, November 2: 1A Finals (evening)
Session 4: Wednesday, November 3: 3A Prelims (morning and afternoon)
Session 5: Wednesday, November 3: 3A Finals (evening)
BOA SA Friday, November 5: Super Regional Prelims (morning, afternoon, evening) BOA SA Saturday, November 6: Super Regional Prelims (morning) Finals (evening)
Session 1: Monday, November 8: 6A Prelims (morning, afternoon, evening)
Session 2: Tuesday, November 9: 2A Prelims (morning), 6A Finals (afternoon)
Session 3: Tuesday, November 9: 2A Finals (evening)
Session 4: Wednesday, November 10: 4A Prelims (morning and afternoon)
Session 5: Wednesday, November 10: 4A Finals (evening)
with 6A going on Monday and Tuesday after BOA SA it will not have a major impact on them - as they will still have Wednesday back in school and travel on Thursday - Prelims on Friday. I do recall that there have been 6A programs that have gone to Grand Nats on a state year. in 2016 we had 2 programs in our district do just that. though one program open to perform at Area and bow out of finals to avoid the whole week off of school. But our sister program did both state and GNats.
as far as cost, the school and district cover transportation cost for UIL, so it may be up to the district on what they will cover.
while I have heard many comments that directors or schools are not supportive of the changes. Keep in mind that the superintendents make up the UIL governance and the Band Directors all have input into the rule changes and voted for the changes.
One of the bigger impacts will be the addition of an AREA event every year - this may take away a weekend that would normally be used to attend a BOA event in October.
I know that there are a number of 6A Texas programs debating a trip to Gnats this year - Vista Ridge has already confirmed and I am aware of others that have not formally announced yet - all were aware of these changes prior to making that commitment.
November is going to be nuts. our kids will be looking at 7 performances in a 9 day span.
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CTJBandPops
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children are apt to live up to what you believe of them - Claudia Taylor "Lady Bird" Johnson
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Post by CTJBandPops on Dec 20, 2020 16:25:34 GMT -6
Also for those that are not familiar with Texas UIL - the UIL is the governing body for ALL high school events, all sports, music, choir, art etc... and roles up to the University of Texas- unlike most other states, they dictate when marching bands can open their summer practice and when they can start their marching drill. during that time they can practice and drill almost at will -there are some football programs that will open their first day of practice at 12:01am on the first day of the practice season. UIL also has what is referred to as the 8 hour rule. that is the amount of practice time that that the band can rehearse each week once school starts. 8 hours outside of the normal classroom instruction. Many have claimed that Texas bands are hindered by that rule and the camp season when competing with other programs at a National level that do not have the same restrictions. - I think that the Texas schools have held their own in that respect. a big deal was made when CTJ declined going to state in 2016, that they were "opting out of UIL" and this was to get around the 8 hour rule. in reality, even if a program does not compete in the UIL marching program, they are still held to the UIL standards include grade requirements, 8 hour rule, etc.. as noted, CTJ opted out of UIL State in 2016 due to a Thursday prelim time in Indy and the need to get their trailers to Indy in time. so a program could certainly should be able to opt out in 2021 - but I would guess the district would frown on making that a routine in place of BOA.
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UIL
Dec 20, 2020 19:04:49 GMT -6
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Post by LeanderMomma on Dec 20, 2020 19:04:49 GMT -6
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Post by WoodlandsMom4ever on Dec 20, 2020 19:22:29 GMT -6
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CTJBandPops
Full Member
children are apt to live up to what you believe of them - Claudia Taylor "Lady Bird" Johnson
Posts: 25
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Post by CTJBandPops on Dec 20, 2020 20:25:55 GMT -6
too much free time on my hands - considered using a different name - but what is the fun in that
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Post by twhsalumniparent on Dec 21, 2020 8:26:53 GMT -6
too much free time on my hands - considered using a different name - but what is the fun in that See how long it takes us to figure out who you are?
BTW, IMO there is no asterisk on CTJ's title this year - I think the whole discussion is silly and pointless. Just like the rabid discussions around who would have won GN if (insert band name here) would have attended in (insert year here). OK to think about and even discuss rationally, but it does not put an asterisk on the winner.
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CTJBandPops
Full Member
children are apt to live up to what you believe of them - Claudia Taylor "Lady Bird" Johnson
Posts: 25
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Post by CTJBandPops on Dec 21, 2020 9:00:40 GMT -6
too much free time on my hands - considered using a different name - but what is the fun in that See how long it takes us to figure out who you are?
BTW, IMO there is no asterisk on CTJ's title this year - I think the whole discussion is silly and pointless. Just like the rabid discussions around who would have won GN if (insert band name here) would have attended in (insert year here). OK to think about and even discuss rationally, but it does not put an asterisk on the winner.
thanks, and I agree - it is not like the UIL State event was not competitive - TWHS, Marcus, FloMo, Hebron are all strong programs - and a group that has been plucking UIL medals for the past 15 years - we all know the long history of Marcus and their UIL state dominance for a decade - Flower Mound has a gold, silver and bronze in the recent years, and Hebron now has 4 silver UIL medals. We are proud of the show that the kids put on the field - a full show that would have been competitive in any year but truly amazing in a pandemic year.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Dec 23, 2020 21:25:22 GMT -6
See how long it takes us to figure out who you are?
BTW, IMO there is no asterisk on CTJ's title this year - I think the whole discussion is silly and pointless. Just like the rabid discussions around who would have won GN if (insert band name here) would have attended in (insert year here). OK to think about and even discuss rationally, but it does not put an asterisk on the winner.
thanks, and I agree - it is not like the UIL State event was not competitive - TWHS, Marcus, FloMo, Hebron are all strong programs - and a group that has been plucking UIL medals for the past 15 years - we all know the long history of Marcus and their UIL state dominance for a decade - Flower Mound has a gold, silver and bronze in the recent years, and Hebron now has 4 silver UIL medals. We are proud of the show that the kids put on the field - a full show that would have been competitive in any year but truly amazing in a pandemic year. It was just fantastic, really.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jun 15, 2021 13:30:32 GMT -6
Oh look! I found it. The UIL thread! 😂
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jun 15, 2021 17:07:08 GMT -6
over the past few years, UIL has been working to change the UIL State Marching Competition. in 2019, they ran a "shadow judging" that included 7 judges and was much closer to the BOA style of judging. it was going to be implemented in 2020 but was delayed due to the changes already impacting the events due to Covid. I expect the new judging will come into use in 2021 Another change was getting to an Area Champion every year for all classes and possibly getting a State Champion for all classes every year and that will all happen in 2021. Here is what the schedule will look like in San Antonio in November 2021 Session 1: Monday, November 1: 5A Prelims (morning, afternoon, evening) Session 2: Tuesday, November 2: 1A Prelims (morning), 5A Finals (afternoon) Session 3: Tuesday, November 2: 1A Finals (evening) Session 4: Wednesday, November 3: 3A Prelims (morning and afternoon) Session 5: Wednesday, November 3: 3A Finals (evening) BOA SA Friday, November 5: Super Regional Prelims (morning, afternoon, evening) BOA SA Saturday, November 6: Super Regional Prelims (morning) Finals (evening) Session 1: Monday, November 8: 6A Prelims (morning, afternoon, evening) Session 2: Tuesday, November 9: 2A Prelims (morning), 6A Finals (afternoon) Session 3: Tuesday, November 9: 2A Finals (evening) Session 4: Wednesday, November 10: 4A Prelims (morning and afternoon) Session 5: Wednesday, November 10: 4A Finals (evening) Just to remind everyone of the hectic fall UIL/BOA Texas schedule this year.
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UIL
Jun 21, 2021 17:29:38 GMT -6
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Post by turfday on Jun 21, 2021 17:29:38 GMT -6
Hendrickson and Leander are 5A?
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UIL
Jun 21, 2021 19:59:17 GMT -6
Post by statechamp1239 on Jun 21, 2021 19:59:17 GMT -6
Hendrickson and Leander are 5A? I think Leander might move down not Hendrickson looking at their U.S. News class sizes they would range from 2K-2.2K students which I believe that between the 5A Category, but that's just my thought.
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Post by jmike16 on Jun 21, 2021 20:12:41 GMT -6
Hendrickson and Leander are 5A? Yes, both Leander and Hendrickson are now in 5A. Leander and Cedar Park will battle it out for 5A State Title this fall.
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Post by Samuel Culper on Jun 22, 2021 7:26:29 GMT -6
Hendrickson and Leander are 5A? I think Leander might move down not Hendrickson looking at their U.S. News class sizes they would range from 2K-2.2K students which I believe that between the 5A Category, but that's just my thought. UIL does realignment every other spring in even-numbered years, changes go into effect the following school year. The new alignment in Spring 2020 moved both Leander and Hendrickson down from 6A to 5A. The new cutoff for 6A became 2215 students (9-12). Leander's reported enrollment was 2202 and Hendrickson's was 2125, so both are very large 5A schools and could very possibly move back up to 6A in next spring's realignment.
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UIL
Jun 22, 2021 11:17:12 GMT -6
Post by LeanderMomma on Jun 22, 2021 11:17:12 GMT -6
I think Leander might move down not Hendrickson looking at their U.S. News class sizes they would range from 2K-2.2K students which I believe that between the 5A Category, but that's just my thought. UIL does realignment every other spring in even-numbered years, changes go into effect the following school year. The new alignment in Spring 2020 moved both Leander and Hendrickson down from 6A to 5A. The new cutoff for 6A became 2215 students (9-12). Leander's reported enrollment was 2202 and Hendrickson's was 2125, so both are very large 5A schools and could very possibly move back up to 6A in next spring's realignment. It definitely gets old switching back and forth! And there’s absolutely nothing like 6A SMBC!
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UIL
Jun 24, 2021 15:52:36 GMT -6
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Post by supersound on Jun 24, 2021 15:52:36 GMT -6
Hendrickson and Leander are newly 5A. They’re also parts of some of the most competitive 6A areas and made state last cycle.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jan 20, 2022 12:56:11 GMT -6
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Post by Subito Fortissimo on Jan 20, 2022 20:25:04 GMT -6
If this passes it will be interesting to see how some bands approach show design going forward since some of the larger groups take a distinctively different approach in UIL years vs years where the focus is solely on BOA. Possible too that it could become more common for groups attending GN to opt out of UIL state to save money and time like The Woodlands did last year. I'm also curious about the smaller class bands, which I admittedly know very little about. It might end up being a budgetary stretch for a smaller program from some far flung corner of the state to have a potential trip to San Antonio every year rather than every other year.
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Post by jmike16 on Jan 20, 2022 22:13:56 GMT -6
If this passes it will be interesting to see how some bands approach show design going forward since some of the larger groups take a distinctively different approach in UIL years vs years where the focus is solely on BOA. Possible too that it could become more common for groups attending GN to opt out of UIL state to save money and time like The Woodlands did last year. I'm also curious about the smaller class bands, which I admittedly know very little about. It might end up being a budgetary stretch for a smaller program from some far flung corner of the state to have a potential trip to San Antonio every year rather than every other year. I would not be surprised at all if the smaller schools vote against State every year. Most of them can not afford State every year like the bigger schools. There are even some mid-size groups who don't have the budget for it every year. Will be interesting what the outcome is though.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Jan 20, 2022 22:27:46 GMT -6
If this passes it will be interesting to see how some bands approach show design going forward since some of the larger groups take a distinctively different approach in UIL years vs years where the focus is solely on BOA. Possible too that it could become more common for groups attending GN to opt out of UIL state to save money and time like The Woodlands did last year. I'm also curious about the smaller class bands, which I admittedly know very little about. It might end up being a budgetary stretch for a smaller program from some far flung corner of the state to have a potential trip to San Antonio every year rather than every other year. My gut is telling me that most directors would not be in favor of it for a variety of reasons. Cost would certainly be a big factor, especially for the bands far from the San Antonio area. For them, it would be a bit like when Texas bands make the trip to GN. Lots of fundraising and planning ahead to make that happen every year. Then there are the BOA style bands who would have to decide every year whether or not to do a more BOA friendly or a more UIL friendly show. I just don’t think most directors are going to like this idea.
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Post by Subito Fortissimo on Jan 21, 2022 21:29:02 GMT -6
If this passes it will be interesting to see how some bands approach show design going forward since some of the larger groups take a distinctively different approach in UIL years vs years where the focus is solely on BOA. Possible too that it could become more common for groups attending GN to opt out of UIL state to save money and time like The Woodlands did last year. I'm also curious about the smaller class bands, which I admittedly know very little about. It might end up being a budgetary stretch for a smaller program from some far flung corner of the state to have a potential trip to San Antonio every year rather than every other year. My gut is telling me that most directors would not be in favor of it for a variety of reasons. Cost would certainly be a big factor, especially for the bands far from the San Antonio area. For them, it would be a bit like when Texas bands make the trip to GN. Lots of fundraising and planning ahead to make that happen every year. Then there are the BOA style bands who would have to decide every year whether or not to do a more BOA friendly or a more UIL friendly show. I just don’t think most directors are going to like this idea. Yeah I think the money factor is going to be a big obstacle to this, especially if a program has an expectation from their admin and community to compete at state championships. Having to plan for a yearly trip to San Antonio potentially limits the options for other trips and performance opportunities.
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UIL
Jan 22, 2022 6:33:25 GMT -6
Post by hewhowaits on Jan 22, 2022 6:33:25 GMT -6
Money is clearly in play here. - UIL saw the positive financial effect (to them) of having all classes compete at the State level in 2021. - Individual schools or ISDs will have different opinions about this based at least in part on the financial impact of trying to compete at State annually. For some, it will be clear that the numbers don't work. For others, it will be more of a cost/benefit analysis. What is the educational value in doing it annually vs. the added costs?
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