|
Post by marimba11 on Nov 19, 2019 12:39:25 GMT -6
Mason might have placed 7th again (where they belonged imo) but they were certainly better than they were last year I think. I think the onslaught of Texas band prohibited them from being higher but never the less their improvement from 2017 is noticed !
|
|
|
Post by N.E. Brigand on Nov 19, 2019 20:51:03 GMT -6
The Woodlands- So much fun! I’ll be the first to admit that the show isn’t my cup of tea but I thoroughly enjoyed it. A total package in terms of strengths. I had them in 8th. I feel like a number of people have said that they admired but didn't care for The Woodlands' show, but I haven't seen much in the way of specifics, and I'd be curious to learn more about why.
|
|
|
Post by marimba11 on Nov 19, 2019 21:17:51 GMT -6
I’m struggling to still understand why Avon places so low in music ensemble? Anyone want to shed some light in this?
|
|
|
Post by N.E. Brigand on Nov 19, 2019 21:26:05 GMT -6
I feel like a number of people have said that they admired but didn't care for The Woodlands' show, but I haven't seen much in the way of specifics, and I'd be curious to learn more about why. I watched their prelims block live... and wasn’t a fan. In their defense, they had an awful time slot considering Leander got a standing ovation from nearly the whole stadium after just medaling in prelims. The Woodlands show has a lot of playing but it also has a lot of drama... the theme was nice but there’s not a lot of music that could really fit right with it. I liked the theme, but for example the soloist and the guard were the center of the show, and it didn’t feel like there was much playing. By semis I was peer pressured into watching it again on Flo and started to love it... they had an amazing performance just wish there was more playing and like they said... the whole “Brooklyn Navy Yard to Broadway” theme WASNT my cup of tea (NICE props though!) Thanks for replying! Not that I would think it would be necessary, but I'm curious: had you ever seen the play or the movie On the Town?
|
|
|
Post by marimba11 on Nov 19, 2019 22:29:42 GMT -6
I watched their prelims block live... and wasn’t a fan. In their defense, they had an awful time slot considering Leander got a standing ovation from nearly the whole stadium after just medaling in prelims. The Woodlands show has a lot of playing but it also has a lot of drama... the theme was nice but there’s not a lot of music that could really fit right with it. I liked the theme, but for example the soloist and the guard were the center of the show, and it didn’t feel like there was much playing. By semis I was peer pressured into watching it again on Flo and started to love it... they had an amazing performance just wish there was more playing and like they said... the whole “Brooklyn Navy Yard to Broadway” theme WASNT my cup of tea (NICE props though!) Thanks for replying! Not that I would think it would be necessary, but I'm curious: had you ever seen the play or the movie On the Town?
I get it now a bit more lol thx
|
|
|
Post by bng on Nov 20, 2019 10:57:17 GMT -6
I’m struggling to still understand why Avon places so low in music ensemble? Anyone want to shed some light in this? The only thing I could think of would be going in between all of those TX bands (Leander, Vandegrift, and Hebron specifically) in finals. I think they placed around where they should have
|
|
Ryan
Senior Member
Posts: 63
|
Post by Ryan on Nov 21, 2019 22:54:02 GMT -6
I feel like a number of people have said that they admired but didn't care for The Woodlands' show, but I haven't seen much in the way of specifics, and I'd be curious to learn more about why. I watched their prelims block live... and wasn’t a fan. In their defense, they had an awful time slot considering Leander got a standing ovation from nearly the whole stadium after just medaling in prelims. The Woodlands show has a lot of playing but it also has a lot of drama... the theme was nice but there’s not a lot of music that could really fit right with it. I liked the theme, but for example the soloist and the guard were the center of the show, and it didn’t feel like there was much playing. By semis I was peer pressured into watching it again on Flo and started to love it... they had an amazing performance just wish there was more playing and like they said... the whole “Brooklyn Navy Yard to Broadway” theme WASNT my cup of tea (NICE props though!) Watch it again. 😘
|
|
|
Post by bearscott85 on Nov 22, 2019 7:49:11 GMT -6
Has there ever been any thought on Grand Nationals moving to Texas? Like instead of having a Super regional in Texas, holding off and and having a Grand National there. Just a thought....
|
|
|
Post by rabb2t on Nov 22, 2019 7:58:13 GMT -6
Has there ever been any thought on Grand Nationals moving to Texas? Like instead of having a Super regional in Texas, holding off and and having a Grand National there. Just a thought.... I mean, do they have a stadium better than LOS? Could they fit 90+ bands in a stadium with adequate space and not make it ridiculously hot? I've heard the Alamodome gets hot fast. Also, LOS has amazing acoustics designed for bands... Unless Texas makes their own LOS, I'd say that having that thought would be pushed aside indefinitely.
|
|
|
Post by dbalash on Nov 22, 2019 8:23:02 GMT -6
Has there ever been any thought on Grand Nationals moving to Texas? Like instead of having a Super regional in Texas, holding off and and having a Grand National there. Just a thought.... Lol, it'll never happen. Indianapolis gives BOA (and DCI for that matter) a hell of a deal on office space and the use of LOS. Not to mention, the stadium was literally built with marching band and drum corps in mind.
|
|
|
Post by principalagent on Nov 22, 2019 8:23:36 GMT -6
Has there ever been any thought on Grand Nationals moving to Texas? Like instead of having a Super regional in Texas, holding off and and having a Grand National there. Just a thought.... As a Texan who loves Texas bands... nope.
|
|
|
Post by ohioguy2 on Nov 22, 2019 9:14:05 GMT -6
Question to the Texas crowd...
What would the feasibility be of structuring the San Antonio show like Grand Nationals, meaning doing it over three days, adding a semifinal round, class representation, etc.? It wouldn't have to be "Grand Nationals," but maybe come up with a tier between a Super Regional and GN.
|
|
|
Post by thewho on Nov 22, 2019 9:37:12 GMT -6
Has there ever been any thought on Grand Nationals moving to Texas? Like instead of having a Super regional in Texas, holding off and and having a Grand National there. Just a thought.... I mean, do they have a stadium better than LOS? Could they fit 90+ bands in a stadium with adequate space and not make it ridiculously hot? I've heard the Alamodome gets hot fast. Also, LOS has amazing acoustics designed for bands... Unless Texas makes their own LOS, I'd say that having that thought would be pushed aside indefinitely. I was going to jump with this, but you already answered, so I'll use this as a jumping base. The main difference between LOS and San Antonio is that LOS can 100% guarantee Grand Nationals will happen regardless of weather. Everything is indoors- physical, band, and pit. The props are the only thing that are outside, and even so, there's a massive holding area where the props can wait inside a docking area. This area is so big that I was basically just sending bands into the holding area near the end of Indy Super Friday prelims with pretty much no logistics issues at all. The people down there also had no trouble dealing with the props in that area aside from deliveries from the trucks every once in a while. The Alamodome is such a cool venue, but there's also a couple things holding it back. Moving the band physical/music warm-ups inside is a big step forward- however, there's still a ton of things that have to be improved for Alamodome to enter consideration. - The pit warm-ups have to move inside, instead of being outside where they are at the moment.
- The color guard needs an area to warm-up and toss their flags that's not outside on the side of the stadium.
- Props need a staging area that isn't outside. Believe it or not, props do need an area where to be tended to for a while that is not 15-20 minutes before the band goes on.
To elaborate further: Bullet 1 I don't think there's too much to unpack here generally- in cases of rain or extreme cold, the pit can't warm up outside. Not that Texas would ever get to those levels that we see in Indiana, but anyone organizing events know Murphy's Law- what could go wrong will go wrong, and that's a possibility there in Texas. With climate change causing all kinds of changes (it was 40-50's in San Antonio the week of SA Super Regional!), the guarantee an event can happen becoming more and more important- especially for the spectacle of Grand Nationals.
Bullet 2 LOS has big hanger areas where the color guard can easily warm-up without fear of hitting the ceilings. These roofs are really, really, really, really tall. There's no chance of hitting them at all. San Antonio in comparison has these big conference-like rooms with lower ceilings. Furthermore, these rooms are already taken up by the bands. That means color guard has warm up outside. Again, it goes back to the guarantee of the event occurring.
Bullet 3 This is actually a pretty underrated, but extremely crucial point to consider. At Indy Super, the regional had horrific rain throughout the entire day, so bad to the point of BOA trying to shove every band into LOS tunnels and props into the docking area ASAP. There's usually a waiting time to get the next band in, but that was waived in order to ensure everyone could stay as dry as possible while entering. With the props safely under a roof, the band parents had about an hour to dry off and ready the props before the performance- that means assembling the props together before entering the stadium. Furthermore, the holding area to the entrance of the LOS field is long enough to safely keep all props on standby before a band is ready to perform. We had instances where there were so many props at San Antonio that the front sideline staff was forced to send a few props to the band entrance in the back.
I'll add an example that didn't really fall under any of the stuff here: Vista Ridge had the Mandarins rotating stage, right? They assembled it right there in the pit waiting area right before Vista Ridge performed, so not a big issue. However, the band had to pull the stage allll the way back to the band entrance at San Antonio and disassemble the stage there. BOA was aware and worked around the issue to let Vista Ridge do so (I want to emphasize there was no trouble at all with the flow or anything else, whatsoever. VR's disassembly went very smoothly.), but it's incredibly important for BOA to get the band onto the field to perform. In LOS, with the same setup, Vista Ridge would have been able to disassemble their stage in the SE tunnel (right-top tunnels for those looking onto the LOS field from the stands)- that way, it would have not been an possibility for interference in another band's flow.
I had an amazing experience at the Alamodome. It would be cool to see Grand Nationals down at the Alamodome... I'm just not quite sure how exactly feasible it would be.
|
|
|
Post by natertater on Nov 22, 2019 9:42:50 GMT -6
Another issue is that the two NFL stadiums that could be large enough to eliminate these problems have horrible acoustics. I can also say from experience that the listening environments on both fields is pretty terrible as well. Easily worse than the Alamodome.
|
|
|
Post by lostchoirguy on Nov 22, 2019 9:58:04 GMT -6
I very much understand that LOS is a better venue than the alamodome, but what I don't understand is people make it seem like the alamodome wouldn't be capable of holding a successful large competition at all, despite doing it every year. Yes there are differences (slightly) in the total number of bands, where they would travel from, and the duration of the contest with an added day of competition, but as a venue it wouldn't be much different than is already happening.
I see no reason for it to change from LOS, but I just felt to say that it doesn't seem as absurd to me as some make it out to be.
|
|
|
Post by bearscott85 on Nov 22, 2019 12:26:14 GMT -6
It would afford all Texas bands that wanted to attend to do so along with making it not as expensive to get to for others, like the California bands, Utah, Oklahoma, etc...I read on these forums PEOPLE would like to see the likes of a GN with Avon, Carmel, Reagan, Vandegrift, Broken Arrow, Hebron, Vista Ridge, Leander, Marcus, Tarpon, Blue Springs,....etc, maybe you would see this level? ? Maybe rotate every 2-4 years....fair....I mean why have all those other bands have to travel so far every year?....oh well...I understand about LOS being built somewhat for this kind of venue....Just my Ohio 2cents worth......don't mind me....
|
|
|
Post by thewho on Nov 22, 2019 12:43:07 GMT -6
It would afford all Texas bands that wanted to attend to do so along with making it not as expensive to get to for others, like the California bands, Utah, Oklahoma, etc...I read on these forums PEOPLE would like to see the likes of a GN with Avon, Carmel, Reagan, Vandegrift, Broken Arrow, Hebron, Vista Ridge, Leander, Marcus, Tarpon, Blue Springs,....etc, maybe you would see this level? ? Maybe rotate every 2-4 years....fair....I mean why have all those other bands have to travel so far every year?....oh well...I understand about LOS being built somewhat for this kind of venue....Just my Ohio 2cents worth......don't mind me.... We all do, trust us, but would you like a 100% guarantee that Grand Nationals will be performed every single year, or risk having the event being cancelled in event of some freak event? That's why it's at LOS. Although, the Alamodome can handle more, as long as it's not BOA's flagship event (like Grand Nationals).
|
|
|
Post by marimba11 on Nov 22, 2019 12:45:15 GMT -6
If San Antonio is the better show, why do people care where Grand Nationals is?
|
|
|
Post by OldSchoolTrumpet on Nov 22, 2019 12:59:56 GMT -6
In light of this discussion, let's play a round of Conterfactuals. In a world where Grand Nationals had a 20 year run in the Alamodome, do Avon and Carmel still feature those world class guards on the marching field?
|
|
|
Post by barbaralhsbandmom on Nov 22, 2019 13:43:51 GMT -6
New to the high school marching band world so this may come off as bad question: Is there this much controversy each year with the rankings and where the Grand Nationals are held?
I am in a suburb of Austin Texas and while I would love for the GN to be at the Alamo Dome, that does not make sense to me. There is a known location and yes it is expensive for many bands to travel there so that in itself limits who can attend and the frequency in which they can attend. But the bands can plan for it fund raise for it. Now that isn't always possible. While I LOVE watching the bands perform and think they do deserve all the accolades they receive from attending GN I don't think it is that important that all band should feel they need to attend it. Participate in your local competitions if money is a factor and for many it is a factor.
Moving Grand Nationals around would disrupt this event in so many ways. I also am not sure that it would be wise as it appears the Lucas stadium is really built for this event. That is really important to keep in mind how the stadium is set up. I will also add my kiddo loved taking this trip. It was very special to her.
So my Texas 2 cent opinion is leave it be. We know some band will be able to attend more often than others. but those who only get to attend a few times it makes it that much more special.
|
|
|
Post by Jake W. on Nov 22, 2019 14:05:31 GMT -6
Before this goes down any further rabbit holes, I think it's pertinent to remind everyone that we all forget how deep into Texas San Antonio really is, and that moving GN to the Alamodome vs. Indy would be a net positive for NO MAJOR BANDS outside of Texas other than Lafayette (LA) & Mustang (OK).
Blue Springs almost doubles their distance going to SA.
Wando doesn't quite double their distance, but almost.
Dobyns-Bennett roughly triples their distance driving to SA, and Franklin isn't too far behind.
Any of the Cobb County bands would double their distance. Yes, it's literally twice as far from Atlanta to San Antonio as it is from Atlanta to Indy.
Greendale or any of the MN bands wanting to attend would turn quickly from a (long) day trip bus ride to Indy to flying the entire band down to SA.
James Madison (VA) just went from a day bus ride to flying all their kids down as well.
Same with all of your NC Cary area bands & non-Wando SC bands like Byrnes & Fort Mill. I think everyone forgets that South Carolina, North Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Missouri, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, Virginia, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and even Arkansas are all states whose bands can make the drive to Indy in a day trip. Often a long day trip, but all of the major cities are within a 9 hour bus ride. That allows bands to attend so much more frequently than flying would.
Tarpon Springs is about 135 miles closer to Indy than they are to SA, although it's a flying situation either way. Same with the Miami area schools like Stoneman Douglas, Flanagan, Park Vista, & West Broward.
Even Bentonville is closer to Indy!!
Oklahoma City is for sure closer to SA than Indy, and as mentioned, that would benefit Mustang. Tulsa on the other hand appears to be almost halfway in between SA & Indy (that's how far deep SA is in TX). Broken Arrow saves, according to Google maps, about 35 minutes of driving time when driving to SA vs. Indy. That's great, but it's still over 8.5 hours either way for Union, Jenks, Owasso, & BA, and shaving off a half hour isn't massive at that point. It seems to be 6 in 1/half a dozen in the other for our Tulsa bands when it comes to a SA vs. Indy trip.
Here's another rub: it IS closer for our SoCal bands (Ayala & VM) to go to SA, but it's still a plane ride either way. From Chino Hills, San Antonio is a 19 hour bus ride, which would still put GN strictly in the fly-the-entire-band-there zone, and neither flight appears to be cheaper than the other upon quick perusal. Of course, it's worth mentioning that the equipment truck(s) tack on 10 more hours to the drive going to Indy from SoCal, and that alone could swing it, but getting the entire band, staff, AND parents to Indy via plane wouldn't be any different from SA vs. Indy. An extra hour in the air, sure, but certainly not a big enough difference to encourage SoCal bands to attend GN more frequently; it's a giant undertaking either way. Same with American Fork --- it's still a TWENTY hour bus ride to San Antonio vs. a 23 hour one to Indy. They would fly their band to GN either way.
----------------
Moving GN to a horribly uncentralized location like San Antonio is a terrible idea that doesn't need to be discussed much more. It's a net positive for only 2 major BOA programs outside of Texas. It's a toss up for Tulsa, Pacific Coast, and Rocky Mountain States bands, and it's detrimental to every other major program in the Great Plains, the Midwest, the Northeast, the East Coast, and the South.
What *DOES* need to be acknowledged is that Texas holds a majority of the terrific BOA programs, and that SA needs to be elevated to a higher regional status to allow for a Semis round. I love love love the amount of early season regionals BOA has planted in Texas; now make the final leap and add that Semis round!!
|
|
|
Post by OldSchoolTrumpet on Nov 22, 2019 14:30:00 GMT -6
What *DOES* need to be acknowledged is that Texas holds a majority of the terrific BOA programs, and that SA needs to be elevated to a higher regional status to allow for a Semis round. I love love love the amount of early season regionals BOA has planted in Texas; now make the final leap and add that Semis round!! What I'm hearing here is that BOA needs to split into two separate circuits. BOT, and BO therestofA.
|
|
|
Post by Jake W. on Nov 22, 2019 14:59:43 GMT -6
What *DOES* need to be acknowledged is that Texas holds a majority of the terrific BOA programs, and that SA needs to be elevated to a higher regional status to allow for a Semis round. I love love love the amount of early season regionals BOA has planted in Texas; now make the final leap and add that Semis round!! What I'm hearing here is that BOA needs to split into two separate circuits. BOT, and BO therestofA. That's certainly how I view it now. Two BOA circuits; the Texas Regionals culminating in San Antonio and then the rest of the country culminating in their late season regionals. But it's almost like there's this one contest....where bands from both imagined BOA circuits come together to compete at the end of the season.... ; )
|
|
|
Post by dbalash on Nov 22, 2019 15:04:18 GMT -6
New to the high school marching band world so this may come off as bad question: Is there this much controversy each year with the rankings and where the Grand Nationals are held? I am in a suburb of Austin Texas and while I would love for the GN to be at the Alamo Dome, that does not make sense to me. There is a known location and yes it is expensive for many bands to travel there so that in itself limits who can attend and the frequency in which they can attend. But the bands can plan for it fund raise for it. Now that isn't always possible. While I LOVE watching the bands perform and think they do deserve all the accolades they receive from attending GN I don't think it is that important that all band should feel they need to attend it. Participate in your local competitions if money is a factor and for many it is a factor. Moving Grand Nationals around would disrupt this event in so many ways. I also am not sure that it would be wise as it appears the Lucas stadium is really built for this event. That is really important to keep in mind how the stadium is set up. I will also add my kiddo loved taking this trip. It was very special to her. So my Texas 2 cent opinion is leave it be. We know some band will be able to attend more often than others. but those who only get to attend a few times it makes it that much more special. Yes, there's been pissing and moaning for the 20+ years of the BOA forums over where Grand Nationals has been.
|
|
|
Post by bearscott85 on Nov 22, 2019 16:23:04 GMT -6
Sorry I brought it up...after reading everyone's comments it doesn't make any sense to rotate it.
|
|
|
Post by LeanderMomma on Nov 22, 2019 18:20:02 GMT -6
What *DOES* need to be acknowledged is that Texas holds a majority of the terrific BOA programs, and that SA needs to be elevated to a higher regional status to allow for a Semis round. I love love love the amount of early season regionals BOA has planted in Texas; now make the final leap and add that Semis round!! We’ve talked about this quite a bit in TxBands. We’ve agreed to leave GN at LOS and change the San Antonio Super Regional to the San Antonio MEGA Regional. You’re welcome.
|
|
|
Post by principalagent on Nov 23, 2019 9:22:56 GMT -6
Also one thing I noticed this year that I hadn’t really thought about is that LOS has TONS more space than the Alamodome. The capacities are (apparently) the same, but the seats in LOS are a TON comfier and more spacious. Also the concourse space is tons bigger in LOS, which helps fit in more vendors and universities and corps. And there are tons more food stands in LOS (which still caused problems last weekend). These side logistics matter.
Also some other things. Hotels are closer in to the stadium in Indy. Lot space (which is already tight in the Alamodome) would be more prized for two reasons: (1) tons of bands leave at San Antonio after their performance—fewer do for GN (and fewer would from out of state) and accommodating 100-110 trailers would get tricky. Rehearsal space is a LOT easier. There’s all the convention center space as well as the indoor stadium in Westfield. In San Antonio, you do have more high school fields and better weather, but that’s going to create more need to travel in the area—necessitating out of state bands to also book extensive charter buses where an out of state band might not necessarily have to for Indy outside of the bus to downtown and the bus to the airport.
|
|
|
Post by TXHillCountryBands on Dec 16, 2019 15:17:47 GMT -6
Avon’s 13th top 3 appearance. That is just insane. Do they have the most GN 2nd places? Not only 13 top 3 finishes, but 13 straight top 3 finishes. And in the side of the marching activity that is way more volatile and inconsistent than DCI, that is arguably more impressive than Blue Devils current streak of 13 straight top 2 finishes. Comparative to Blue Devils record Is a bit of a stretch!?! It would be as impressive or even more spectacular if Grand Nats were an actual Championship. Meaning the Top 100’ish High School programs in that season under one roof. IMO GN is an MFA Indiana SR with the occasional out of state visiting upper bubble marching program or programs.
|
|
|
Post by Allohak on Dec 16, 2019 15:56:17 GMT -6
Not only 13 top 3 finishes, but 13 straight top 3 finishes. And in the side of the marching activity that is way more volatile and inconsistent than DCI, that is arguably more impressive than Blue Devils current streak of 13 straight top 2 finishes. Comparative to Blue Devils record Is a bit of a stretch!?! It would be as impressive or even more spectacular if Grand Nats were an actual Championship. Meaning the Top 100’ish High School programs in that season under one roof. IMO GN is an MFA Indiana SR with an occasional out of state visiting upper bubble marching program or programs. ...🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Stay in your lane, friend Oh, that's right. Only Texas matters IS your lane. 😎
|
|
|
Post by TXHillCountryBands on Dec 16, 2019 16:02:58 GMT -6
Comparative to Blue Devils record Is a bit of a stretch!?! It would be as impressive or even more spectacular if Grand Nats were an actual Championship. Meaning the Top 100’ish High School programs in that season under one roof. IMO GN is an MFA Indiana SR with an occasional out of state visiting upper bubble marching program or programs. ...🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Stay in your lane, friend Oh, that's right. Only Texas matters IS your lane. 😎 My statement is a known fact to those who are honest about the sport. Nothing new under the Texas sun my friend. 🤪🤪🤪
|
|