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Post by Allohak on Dec 16, 2019 16:18:24 GMT -6
...🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Stay in your lane, friend Oh, that's right. Only Texas matters IS your lane. 😎 My statement is a known fact to those who are honest about the sport. Nothing new under the Texas sun my friend. 🤪🤪🤪 If you don't like the way it is, you're welcome to not come north. Why would you wat to, anyway? The only competition that matters is in your backyard. Feel free to crown your own champion like you want to anyway. I won't be losing any sleep over it.
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Post by TXHillCountryBands on Dec 16, 2019 17:13:06 GMT -6
My statement is a known fact to those who are honest about the sport. Nothing new under the Texas sun my friend. 🤪🤪🤪 If you don't like the way it is, you're welcome to not come north. Why would you wat to, anyway? The only competition that matters is in your backyard. Feel free to crown your own champion like you want to anyway. I won't be losing any sleep over it. Take it easy Friend 😀 Grand Nationals is one of the toughest H.S. marching band competition in the country. Certainly the one with most prestige. Looking forward to my kids enjoying that experience. I am of the opinion for keeping GN right where it is. The rotation debate is nonsensical! Texas does not or will not have a reigning overall Champ nor do we claim too. There are other circuits that play equal importance to our programs as you are well aware of. New programs break the bubble every year it seems. Most Texans do not lose sleep if GN is missed by Texas upper, middle or lower bubbles bands. That is why BOA San Antonio has by default become our “Southern” Grand Nats because we get to see not only our Top Programs in but to get to see the growth and depth of competition yr over yet from historically under privileged programs. Competition breeds success and we are seeing that throughout the state via several circuits. Indianapolis is still the marching capital of the United States and Texas programs will still be headed north occasionally 😀
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Post by lostchoirguy on Dec 16, 2019 17:28:45 GMT -6
Wut?
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Post by sethb811 on Dec 16, 2019 18:05:09 GMT -6
You could easily argue that Avon hasn't been a top 3 band nationally each year since 2007 (minus their Eagle years when nobody was beating them), but I challenge you to name a single band over the last 13 years that would've placed in the top 3 at GN each year had they attended. NOBODY has had that level of consistency for that long of a stretch. It's truly a remarkable run and I'd be shocked to see someone else match it.
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Post by sethb811 on Dec 16, 2019 19:53:46 GMT -6
That is a straw man position. I’m in Sales and when i go into a competitive situation I want to be the first to set the parameters. That gives me the said advantage. Once BOA landed in Indiana you had the advent of DCI which pulled ultimately Classical Marching into more of a pageantry with higher focus on drill design. That is however trending back to Classical Marching styles (Vandy). TMEA is heavy on music ensemble! Texas bands are in general hence the questionable 18.8 ME Avon got at GN this year. They were performing in between musically strong Texas groups that can also march. UIL sheet are not BOA friendly. Everybody has know that for years. Does that mean that TMEA UIL state champs are not at the level? I can easily name several Texas bands that are consistent (Top 3) in there perspective Regions (DFW, Austin, San Antonio and Houston) as Avons is at GN since it is mostly a regional competition. Also remember some of these bands aren’t yet even around 13 years of existence! Plus this type of logic was used against Indiana bands by MBA peeps for years prior BOA move to Indiana in 1984. Indiana had powerhouses that could compete and dominate in that era! It was a straw man then and it is now. Location location location This has nothing to do with location. Nobody over the last 13 years has produced top 3 level shows every year other than Avon. Fact. None of the Texas groups who have come consistently in that time have been top 3 every year. I've watched every San Antonio regional since 2007. Not a single Texas band has been that consistent in that time period. How many have made SA Finals every year since 2007? Three? Marcus, The Woodlands, and Ronald Reagan? They've all come to Grand Nationals in that time period and only ONCE has one of those groups been top 3 (The Woodlands 2013). Actually The Woodlands skipped SA in 2008 so only two bands have made SA Finals every year since 2007 if I'm not mistaken.
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Post by TXHillCountryBands on Dec 16, 2019 22:32:12 GMT -6
That is a straw man position. I’m in Sales and when i go into a competitive situation I want to be the first to set the parameters. That gives me the said advantage. Once BOA landed in Indiana you had the advent of DCI which pulled ultimately Classical Marching into more of a pageantry with higher focus on drill design. That is however trending back to Classical Marching styles (Vandy). TMEA is heavy on music ensemble! Texas bands are in general hence the questionable 18.8 ME Avon got at GN this year. They were performing in between musically strong Texas groups that can also march. UIL sheet are not BOA friendly. Everybody has know that for years. Does that mean that TMEA UIL state champs are not at the level? I can easily name several Texas bands that are consistent (Top 3) in there perspective Regions (DFW, Austin, San Antonio and Houston) as Avons is at GN since it is mostly a regional competition. Also remember some of these bands aren’t yet even around 13 years of existence! Plus this type of logic was used against Indiana bands by MBA peeps for years prior BOA move to Indiana in 1984. Indiana had powerhouses that could compete and dominate in that era! It was a straw man then and it is now. Location location location This has nothing to do with location. Nobody over the last 13 years has produced top 3 level shows every year other than Avon. Fact. None of the Texas groups who have come consistently in that time have been top 3 every year. I've watched every San Antonio regional since 2007. Not a single Texas band has been that consistent in that time period. How many have made SA Finals every year since 2007? Three? Marcus, The Woodlands, and Ronald Reagan? They've all come to Grand Nationals in that time period and only ONCE has one of those groups been top 3 (The Woodlands 2013). Actually The Woodlands skipped SA in 2008 so only two bands have made SA Finals every year since 2007 if I'm not mistaken. Yes. It is about Location and there is a valid argument to be made for the differing circuits. You may have have missed my point but we can go down your rabbit hole momentarily. Do you actually believe that if GN was held n San Antonio all of 2010’s Avon would be Top 3 consistent? If the nations Top 100 had competed at GN Indianapolis every year since 2010 would we have result inconsistencies even amongst upper bubble programs? Yes. Texas has almost never sent Super Regional Gold to GN other than Woodland 2013. FACT. This so called Texas inconsistency vs Avon’s consistency is mainly because of Texas state year UIL sheets. Texas state champs are never SA BOA gold! I’d suggest coming to SA in 2020 for BOA and stay for 6a State Championships. Two very competitive circuits. Two differing finalist rankings. Same excellence! Very consistent.
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Post by supersound on Dec 16, 2019 23:09:38 GMT -6
The only Texan groups recently able to somewhat match up to Avon’s consistent top finishes at Grand Nationals was L.D Bell in the late 2000’s. They went to Grand Nationals and consistently finished top 5 for a few years even taking a win in 2007. And even after years of being one of the best programs in the nation they eventually had a fall while Avon stayed put
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Post by LeanderMomma on Dec 16, 2019 23:13:14 GMT -6
I’m still not convinced that we are comparing apples to apples. While Texas consistently has many phenomenal bands, Avon is consistently phenomenal. I hope that made sense here like it did in my head.
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Post by abtwitch on Dec 16, 2019 23:33:55 GMT -6
I will say that if you were to replace Avon with any Texas band at nats for every year, no Texas band would have finished in the top 3 every single year for 13 years straight like Avon has. Not a single Texas band has remained top 5 consistently at San Antonio for more than 8 years in recent history, so I don't know why one would think that they would consider they could achieve the consistency of Avon at nationals. In fact, within CTJ's 8 year top 5 streak (2011-2018), they placed in the bottom half of national finals TWICE. There's just no point in arguing that any single Texas band has shown the same consistency as Avon. Also worth mentioning, Avon placed in the top 5 comfortably at BOA SA on the year that many consider one of their weaker shows of the decade, which was also one of the strongest years for Texas bands of the decade. So if Avon can show up to Texas with not their best and still place 4th on the field of some of the strongest shows from Texas bands this decade, Avon's consistency is indisputable. No one is trying to argue that if Texas bands were more consistent at showing up to nats that Avon would still have their top 3 streak.
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Post by TXHillCountryBands on Dec 16, 2019 23:39:35 GMT -6
I’m still not convinced that we are comparing apples to apples. While Texas consistently has many phenomenal bands, Avon is consistently phenomenal. I hope that made sense here like it did in my head. Brilliant! 😀
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Post by lostchoirguy on Dec 17, 2019 0:30:40 GMT -6
I will say that if you were to replace Avon with any Texas band at nats for every year, no Texas band would have finished in the top 3 every single year for 13 years straight like Avon has. Not a single Texas band has remained top 5 consistently at San Antonio for more than 8 years in recent history, so I don't know why one would think that they would consider they could achieve the consistency of Avon at nationals. In fact, within CTJ's 8 year top 5 streak (2011-2018), they placed in the bottom half of national finals TWICE. There's just no point in arguing that any single Texas band has shown the same consistency as Avon. Also worth mentioning, Avon placed in the top 5 comfortably at BOA SA on the year that many consider one of their weaker shows of the decade, which was also one of the strongest years for Texas bands of the decade. So if Avon can show up to Texas with not their best and still place 4th on the field of some of the strongest shows from Texas bands this decade, Avon's consistency is indisputable. No one is trying to argue that if Texas bands were more consistent at showing up to nats that Avon would still have their top 3 streak. Marcus was equally consistent (if not more) for over a decade on UIL sheets. The main thing to consider here is that Texas bands weren't consistent in BOA by design for much of the 2000s and early 2010s. During this era, the strongest UIL bands would design their shows around those sheets instead of BOA which caused inconsistent results from year to year. Couple that with the rapid splitting of schools at the top in Texas and it makes sense why bands haven't been consistent. I'm not really sure what the point of this conversation is though. Is anyone arguing that Avon isn't one of the best bands in the nation or something? Grand Nationals is held in Indy and that's the way it is for now and some people need to accept that. However some people also need to accept that this does result naturally in some regional bias and doesn't accurately match up all of the best bands in the nation each year.
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Post by sethb811 on Dec 17, 2019 3:52:32 GMT -6
Do you actually believe that if GN was held n San Antonio all of 2010’s Avon would be Top 3 consistent? You could easily argue that Avon hasn't been a top 3 band nationally each year since 2007 The first thing I said was they haven't always been a top 3 band nationally so that's not my argument. I’d suggest coming to SA in 2020 for BOA and stay for 6a State Championships. Two very competitive circuits. Two differing finalist rankings. Same excellence! Very consistent. I've been to UIL State Finals in 2014. I've also watched the live stream multiple times. I'm well aware of the differences. Doesn't change my facts already stated. I think you're missing my point. I will say that if you were to replace Avon with any Texas band at nats for every year, no Texas band would have finished in the top 3 every single year for 13 years straight like Avon has. Not a single Texas band has remained top 5 consistently at San Antonio for more than 8 years in recent history, so I don't know why one would think that they would consider they could achieve the consistency of Avon at nationals. In fact, within CTJ's 8 year top 5 streak (2011-2018), they placed in the bottom half of national finals TWICE. There's just no point in arguing that any single Texas band has shown the same consistency as Avon. Also worth mentioning, Avon placed in the top 5 comfortably at BOA SA on the year that many consider one of their weaker shows of the decade, which was also one of the strongest years for Texas bands of the decade. So if Avon can show up to Texas with not their best and still place 4th on the field of some of the strongest shows from Texas bands this decade, Avon's consistency is indisputable. No one is trying to argue that if Texas bands were more consistent at showing up to nats that Avon would still have their top 3 streak. Bingo!
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Post by shaneok72 on Dec 17, 2019 9:12:18 GMT -6
We’ve talked about this quite a bit in TxBands. We’ve agreed to leave GN at LOS and change the San Antonio Super Regional to the San Antonio MEGA Regional. I like the idea of a MEGA Regional in San Antonio. Move Prelims to Thursday and Friday, Semi-Finals on Saturday morning/afternoon, and Finals on Saturday evening. Maybe take the top 8 bands per panel, plus the next 4 highest scoring bands (for a total of 20). Then for Class Representation, take the top 3 scoring bands from each class (regardless of panel) that are not already included in the top 20. If they had done that for 2019, Semi-Finals would have looked like this... Top 8 - Panel 1Ronald Reagan Claudia Taylor Johnson Flower Mound The Woodlands Keller James Bowie Round Rock Coppell Top 8 - Panel 2Leander Vandegrift Vista Ridge Hebron Marcus L.D. Bell Pearland Cedar Ridge Next 4 bandsWestwood Westlake Wylie Vista Murrieta, CA Class RepresentationCedar Park (2nd - AAA) Wakeland (3rd - AAA) Roma (1st - AA) Forney (2nd - AA) Pioneer (3rd - AA) Collinsville, OK (1st - A) Archbishop Alter, OH (2nd - A) Hollister, MO (3rd - A) That would have been a total of 28 bands in Semi-Finals, with the top 14 bands advancing to Finals. That would have given a lot of worthy bands a 2nd chance to perform that weekend.
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Post by LeanderMomma on Dec 17, 2019 17:15:31 GMT -6
Wow I like that idea!!
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Post by buckeyeguy5 on Apr 13, 2020 8:45:04 GMT -6
Hey, dumb question but does anybody have a copy of 2019 Grand National Finals?
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Post by LeanderMomma on Apr 13, 2020 10:16:17 GMT -6
Hey, dumb question but does anybody have a copy of 2019 Grand National Finals? I doubt there’s an entire finals video but here are some videos of the bands 2019 performances. 1st - Vandegrift. 2nd - Avon. 3rd - Hebron. 4th - Carmel (from ISSMA state finals, sorry). 5th - Leander. 6th - Claudia Taylor Johnson. 7th - Woodlands. 8th - Mason. 9th - Round Rock. 10th - Homestead (again ISSMA state finals run). 11th - Union. 12th - Ayala.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2020 12:14:56 GMT -6
here’s carmel from finals
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