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Post by angelee on Jun 16, 2020 14:17:22 GMT -6
You seem to think the virus is going away, which it isn't. The spread has slowed, not stopped nor decreased. On a Cartesian coordinate chart, we're on a plateau, not a downcurve. And with everything starting to open back up, there's a very real risk of the spread speeding up to exponential again. All in all, let's call the caution and precaution "better safe(r) than sorry". Not at all what I am saying. In fact the idea that we have to “destroy” the virus at all is absurd. The concept that we can only go back to normal when we have zero cases is also absurd. The only virus we have a cure for on the SURFACE OF THE EARTH is small pox. That’s it. Everything else we have to live with. Swine flu, AIDS( no vaccine), West Nile, Malaria, SARS (no vaccine), the common cold, the list goes on. Curves rise and flatten naturally on their own, but of course you won’t hear about that. We cannot destroy the virus, it is Mother Nature man made or not. This we must learn to live with it like we live with every virus. Yes, but unlike all you’ve mentioned, this is new/novel. Hospitals can get overrun right now. Next year at this time? Not likely after the curve has been flattened and they have more time to prepare for this new illness adding to their already massive list of viruses that come in through their doors. Yes, this isn’t like 50% death rate or anything but it is currently hitting hard and fast. Will it forever? Nope. But as it’s new? Yes, yes it is. The flattened curve was not meant to be 2-3 months. It was 18-24 months. So will it be one of the crowd someday? Absolutely. Is it now? Not on your life. New Illness with no cure... causing hospitalization? We weren’t, and aren’t, ready.
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Post by FaultLineBlues on Jun 16, 2020 14:32:49 GMT -6
Did the cavaliers quarantine their members in 2015 When they came down with their sickness? No they did not, they just stopped for a few days and kept on going. But now it’s different?? Come on You seem to think the virus is going away, which it isn't. The spread has slowed, not stopped nor decreased. On a Cartesian coordinate chart, we're on a plateau, not a downcurve. And with everything starting to open back up, there's a very real risk of the spread speeding up to exponential again. All in all, let's call the caution and precaution "better safe(r) than sorry". It's odd to see people measuring this disease in the form of statistics instead of measuring it in lives that don't exist anymore. Sure, high schoolers are at less of a risk, but if you can take the precaution, why not? While the students can be mad now that there's a chance their season won't happen, I don't think they'd have that same attitude when a member of the band potentially gets hospitalized.
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Post by OldSchoolTrumpet on Jun 16, 2020 14:41:36 GMT -6
You seem to think the virus is going away, which it isn't. The spread has slowed, not stopped nor decreased. On a Cartesian coordinate chart, we're on a plateau, not a downcurve. And with everything starting to open back up, there's a very real risk of the spread speeding up to exponential again. All in all, let's call the caution and precaution "better safe(r) than sorry". It's odd to see people measuring this disease in the form of statistics instead of measuring it in lives that don't exist anymore. Sure, high schoolers are at less of a risk, but if you can take the precaution, why not? While the students can be mad now that there's a chance their season won't happen, I don't think they'd have that same attitude when a member of the band potentially gets hospitalized. Given that States like Texas, Florida, and the Carolinas are reporting record numbers of cases as we speak, I'm unclear how exactly all of these bands and band activities are supposed to happen, unless we're content to put people at risk. I just don't see the risk-free scenario here. Am I stupid?
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Post by marimba11 on Jun 16, 2020 14:48:23 GMT -6
It's odd to see people measuring this disease in the form of statistics instead of measuring it in lives that don't exist anymore. Sure, high schoolers are at less of a risk, but if you can take the precaution, why not? While the students can be mad now that there's a chance their season won't happen, I don't think they'd have that same attitude when a member of the band potentially gets hospitalized. Given that States like Texas, Florida, and the Carolinas are reporting record numbers of cases as we speak, I'm unclear how exactly all of these bands and band activities are supposed to happen, unless we're content to put people at risk. I just don't see the risk-free scenario here. Am I stupid? What in life is risk free? LOL you’re not stupid.
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Post by twhsalumniparent on Jun 16, 2020 15:28:53 GMT -6
Not at all what I am saying. In fact the idea that we have to “destroy” the virus at all is absurd. The concept that we can only go back to normal when we have zero cases is also absurd. The only virus we have a cure for on the SURFACE OF THE EARTH is small pox. That’s it. Everything else we have to live with. Swine flu, AIDS( no vaccine), West Nile, Malaria, SARS (no vaccine), the common cold, the list goes on. Curves rise and flatten naturally on their own, but of course you won’t hear about that. We cannot destroy the virus, it is Mother Nature man made or not. This we must learn to live with it like we live with every virus. Yes, but unlike all you’ve mentioned, this is new/novel. Hospitals can get overrun right now. Next year at this time? Not likely after the curve has been flattened and they have more time to prepare for this new illness adding to their already massive list of viruses that come in through their doors. Yes, this isn’t like 50% death rate or anything but it is currently hitting hard and fast. Will it forever? Nope. But as it’s new? Yes, yes it is. The flattened curve was not meant to be 2-3 months. It was 18-24 months. So will it be one of the crowd someday? Absolutely. Is it now? Not on your life. New Illness with no cure... causing hospitalization? We weren’t, and aren’t, ready. Purely from an argument standpoint your point makes no sense. Every disease mentioned by Marimba11 was "new/novel" when it first appeared. Just because you may not remember them or weren't around for them when they were new does not change that. AIDS, for example, was and is immensely worse than this current virus. Although we can now deal with most of the symptoms, there, of course, is no cure. I lived through the 1980's as a teenager with daily horror stories about AIDS. We didn't shut anything down including very obvious hotspots for the spreading of the disease. So having and keeping perspective is a must. So my take purely from having lived through a few of these things is we have badly overreacted to this virus. We can already deal with most of the symptoms (it took decades on the AIDS front to be able to say that), it is spreading linearly rather than exponentially through the population*, and the death rate, while anyone dying sucks, is not anything special when it comes to nasty diseases. AIDS was almost 100% fatal for the first many years irrespective of your general health or whatever other demographic, infected and killed millions for many years, and is still ongoing. That growing up experience has really colored my perspective, and yes, I know people that have died from AIDS, including one of my high school teachers during my senior year. Take precautions - the single most important one is washing your hands with soap and water often. Use other precautions at your discretion - they may help, they may not, but that is not a discussion I am going to touch (then I would have to wash my hands again...).
Taking this back to the season, if BOA wants to limit attendance, then have counters at the gate that monitor incoming/outgoing people. Especially during prelims most people only stay for a few bands before exiting. Ensure that the stadium is 50%(?) full at most. Have handwashing stations around the area (hand sanitizer is better than nothing if the handwashing stations can't be installed). Finals is more challenging - perhaps have each attending band receive a block of finals tickets (up to say 50% capacity) that they can sell locally up until maybe 2 weeks before the show, then make whatever wasn't sold available for the general public. Just some thoughts...
*This assumes no quiet cases that are asymptomatic and are never tested. Lots of discussion on that front in various places.
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Post by boahistorybuff on Jun 16, 2020 15:57:59 GMT -6
I have so been trying to stay out of this argument. But just had to point out that nothing was shut down with the AIDS pandemic because it is not nor ever has been communicable via airborne droplets.
I think what has been problematic with COVID 19 is it is highly contagious via airborne droplets, the high hospitalization rate, the need for patients to be put on ventilators and its history of completely overwhelming the health care systems in areas where major outbreaks have occurred. Lets hope the rate of hospitalizations drops by the end of the summer. I am OK with wearing a mask to competitions and limited capacity (might really hurt revenue though).
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Post by paddy on Jun 17, 2020 7:28:39 GMT -6
I have so been trying to stay out of this argument. But just had to point out that nothing was shut down with the AIDS pandemic because it is not nor ever has been communicable via airborne droplets. I think what has been problematic with COVID 19 is it is highly contagious via airborne droplets, the high hospitalization rate, the need for patients to be put on ventilators and its history of completely overwhelming the health care systems in areas where major outbreaks have occurred. Lets hope the rate of hospitalizations drops by the end of the summer. I am OK with wearing a mask to competitions and limited capacity (might really hurt revenue though). Yeah the AIDS comparison was pretty off base.
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Post by marimba11 on Jun 17, 2020 8:12:43 GMT -6
Yes, but unlike all you’ve mentioned, this is new/novel. Hospitals can get overrun right now. Next year at this time? Not likely after the curve has been flattened and they have more time to prepare for this new illness adding to their already massive list of viruses that come in through their doors. Yes, this isn’t like 50% death rate or anything but it is currently hitting hard and fast. Will it forever? Nope. But as it’s new? Yes, yes it is. The flattened curve was not meant to be 2-3 months. It was 18-24 months. So will it be one of the crowd someday? Absolutely. Is it now? Not on your life. New Illness with no cure... causing hospitalization? We weren’t, and aren’t, ready. Purely from an argument standpoint your point makes no sense. Every disease mentioned by Marimba11 was "new/novel" when it first appeared. Just because you may not remember them or weren't around for them when they were new does not change that. AIDS, for example, was and is immensely worse than this current virus. Although we can now deal with most of the symptoms, there, of course, is no cure. I lived through the 1980's as a teenager with daily horror stories about AIDS. We didn't shut anything down including very obvious hotspots for the spreading of the disease. So having and keeping perspective is a must. So my take purely from having lived through a few of these things is we have badly overreacted to this virus. We can already deal with most of the symptoms (it took decades on the AIDS front to be able to say that), it is spreading linearly rather than exponentially through the population*, and the death rate, while anyone dying sucks, is not anything special when it comes to nasty diseases. AIDS was almost 100% fatal for the first many years irrespective of your general health or whatever other demographic, infected and killed millions for many years, and is still ongoing. That growing up experience has really colored my perspective, and yes, I know people that have died from AIDS, including one of my high school teachers during my senior year. Take precautions - the single most important one is washing your hands with soap and water often. Use other precautions at your discretion - they may help, they may not, but that is not a discussion I am going to touch (then I would have to wash my hands again...). Taking this back to the season, if BOA wants to limit attendance, then have counters at the gate that monitor incoming/outgoing people. Especially during prelims most people only stay for a few bands before exiting. Ensure that the stadium is 50%(?) full at most. Have handwashing stations around the area (hand sanitizer is better than nothing if the handwashing stations can't be installed). Finals is more challenging - perhaps have each attending band receive a block of finals tickets (up to say 50% capacity) that they can sell locally up until maybe 2 weeks before the show, then make whatever wasn't sold available for the general public. Just some thoughts...
*This assumes no quiet cases that are asymptomatic and are never tested. Lots of discussion on that front in various places.
AIDS perhaps since it is not air droplets but the rest are. But this is exactly right. To the rest of you.. we'll have to just agree to disagree. I see no point in wearing a mask outside in a football stadium this season, maybe in a dome LOL
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Post by twhsalumniparent on Jun 17, 2020 8:50:37 GMT -6
I have so been trying to stay out of this argument. But just had to point out that nothing was shut down with the AIDS pandemic because it is not nor ever has been communicable via airborne droplets. I think what has been problematic with COVID 19 is it is highly contagious via airborne droplets, the high hospitalization rate, the need for patients to be put on ventilators and its history of completely overwhelming the health care systems in areas where major outbreaks have occurred. Lets hope the rate of hospitalizations drops by the end of the summer. I am OK with wearing a mask to competitions and limited capacity (might really hurt revenue though). Yeah the AIDS comparison was pretty off base. Off base? Comparison? I used it as an example of how I make personal decisions based upon the data about a disease and how I've been impacted through my experiences. Please, get a grip and read for context.
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Post by atxbandnerd on Jun 17, 2020 9:03:24 GMT -6
With the fact that 9 mayors of major cities in Texas are asking Governor Abbott to make masks mandatory, and the fact that many of these same cities are extending their stay at home orders until August 15th, I don't see how summer band may even happen.
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Post by TXHillCountryBands on Jun 17, 2020 10:33:15 GMT -6
With the fact that 9 mayors of major cities in Texas are asking Governor Abbott to make masks mandatory, and the fact that many of these same cities are extending their stay at home orders until August 15th, I don't see how summer band may even happen. Second wave hitting the Alamo City presently. Unbelievable times.
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Post by thefourth on Jun 17, 2020 10:42:24 GMT -6
A new statistic I discovered recently is that the CDC says those who have died from COVID-19, 93% of those people had (on average) 2.5 other pre-existing health conditions that attributed to their deaths. While any loss of life is bad, and should be avoided, I just thought this was an interesting bit of info that you don’t see on any mainstream sources
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Post by mrmatthews on Jun 17, 2020 10:54:15 GMT -6
The Illinois Health Chief admitted that anyone who died with Covid is listed as dying because of Covid. I don't buy any stats on this anymore. I attended my grandson's youth baseball game the other night, and it was packed...and no one was wearing masks! Thank God for some normalcy! I say, get back to it. If people are truly afraid to be outside while in the presence of other people, then stay home.
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Post by MadScientist on Jun 17, 2020 10:55:56 GMT -6
A new statistic I discovered recently is that the CDC says those who have died from COVID-19, 93% of those people had (on average) 2.5 other pre-existing health conditions that attributed to their deaths. While any loss of life is bad, and should be avoided, I just thought this was an interesting bit of info that you don’t see on any mainstream sources Are you suggesting that the CDC is not a mainstream source?
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Post by marimba11 on Jun 17, 2020 11:13:40 GMT -6
A new statistic I discovered recently is that the CDC says those who have died from COVID-19, 93% of those people had (on average) 2.5 other pre-existing health conditions that attributed to their deaths. While any loss of life is bad, and should be avoided, I just thought this was an interesting bit of info that you don’t see on any mainstream sources Are you suggesting that the CDC is not a mainstream source? You don't see anyone screaming from the roof tops about it. Really a moot point. Mainstream is short for "mainstream media" (fox, cnn, abc, nbc, MSNbc ect.). 99% of the people that died in Italy had preexisting conditions. Healthy people don't die from this unlike what the media would have you believe. These we're the same people who said the virus lives in the ocean water back in May... sure it does LOL. In Minnesota the average death from COVID 19 is 86.
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Post by MadScientist on Jun 17, 2020 11:14:12 GMT -6
Not at all what I am saying. In fact the idea that we have to “destroy” the virus at all is absurd. The concept that we can only go back to normal when we have zero cases is also absurd. The only virus we have a cure for on the SURFACE OF THE EARTH is small pox. That’s it. Everything else we have to live with. Swine flu, AIDS( no vaccine), West Nile, Malaria, SARS (no vaccine), the common cold, the list goes on. Curves rise and flatten naturally on their own, but of course you won’t hear about that. We cannot destroy the virus, it is Mother Nature man made or not. This we must learn to live with it like we live with every virus. I'm a bit late to this, but there is no "cure" for any virus, even smallpox. We have vaccines, which are prevention measures, and for some viral diseases we have treatments that generally only relieve symptoms and shorten the course of the disease. Smallpox was globally eradicated by mandatory and sometimes forced vaccination efforts. Likewise, we have eradicated Rinderpest, an animal virus that doesn't infect humans. We also have excellent vaccines for a number of viruses: measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox (and shingles), polio, rabies, yellow fever, HPV, hepatitis A, hepatitis B. If everybody were vaccinated against these diseases, then they would also be eradicated. We're almost there with polio. The reason we are able to live with these viruses, though, is because so many people are already vaccinated against them and so they do not cause global pandemics. This is why we so desperately need a vaccine for SARS-CoV-2.
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Post by marimba11 on Jun 17, 2020 11:16:13 GMT -6
Not at all what I am saying. In fact the idea that we have to “destroy” the virus at all is absurd. The concept that we can only go back to normal when we have zero cases is also absurd. The only virus we have a cure for on the SURFACE OF THE EARTH is small pox. That’s it. Everything else we have to live with. Swine flu, AIDS( no vaccine), West Nile, Malaria, SARS (no vaccine), the common cold, the list goes on. Curves rise and flatten naturally on their own, but of course you won’t hear about that. We cannot destroy the virus, it is Mother Nature man made or not. This we must learn to live with it like we live with every virus. I'm a bit late to this, but there is no "cure" for any virus, even smallpox. We have vaccines, which are prevention measures, and for some viral diseases we have treatments that generally only relieve symptoms and shorten the course of the disease. Smallpox was globally eradicated by mandatory and sometimes forced vaccination efforts. Likewise, we have eradicated Rinderpest, an animal virus that doesn't infect humans. We also have excellent vaccines for a number of viruses: measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox (and shingles), polio, rabies, yellow fever, HPV, hepatitis A, hepatitis B. If everybody were vaccinated against these diseases, then they would also be eradicated. We're almost there with polio. The reason we are able to live with these viruses, though, is because so many people are already vaccinated against them and so they do not cause global pandemics. This is why we so desperately need a vaccine for SARS-CoV-2. Yeah eradicated... I knew small pox was the one but wasn't sure exactly what it was that we accomplished. thx... and we need herd immunity
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Post by MadScientist on Jun 17, 2020 11:19:24 GMT -6
Are you suggesting that the CDC is not a mainstream source? You don't see anyone screaming from the roof tops about it. Really a moot point. Mainstream is short for "mainstream media" (fox, cnn, abc, nbc, MSNbc ect.). 99% of the people that died in Italy had preexisting conditions. Healthy people don't die from this unlike what the media would have you believe. These we're the same people who said the virus lives in the ocean water back in May... sure it does LOL. In Minnesota the average death from COVID 19 is 86. Actually, I read about this same CDC report yesterday on CNN.
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Post by marimba11 on Jun 17, 2020 11:27:41 GMT -6
You don't see anyone screaming from the roof tops about it. Really a moot point. Mainstream is short for "mainstream media" (fox, cnn, abc, nbc, MSNbc ect.). 99% of the people that died in Italy had preexisting conditions. Healthy people don't die from this unlike what the media would have you believe. These we're the same people who said the virus lives in the ocean water back in May... sure it does LOL. In Minnesota the average death from COVID 19 is 86. Actually, I read about this same CDC report yesterday on CNN. Well I think they're realizing they need to tell the truth. But we didn't hear about Italy when those numbers came out in april
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Post by ilikeguard on Jun 17, 2020 12:22:07 GMT -6
Certainly not pointing any fingers, but it seems there are some people on hornrank who have forgotten that there are students and staff members who are immunocompromised and still participate in the marching band activity
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Post by thefourth on Jun 17, 2020 12:37:38 GMT -6
Certainly not pointing any fingers, but it seems there are some people on hornrank who have forgotten that there are students and staff members who are immunocompromised and still participate in the marching band activity I meant no disrespect when I made my statement about additional causes, if it came across that way I apologize. I have many family friends/peers who suffer from those conditions, and personally I don’t think they should be put at risk. I was just pointing something out that I found interesting, sorry if there was any unrest
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Post by marimba11 on Jun 17, 2020 12:38:06 GMT -6
Certainly not pointing any fingers, but it seems there are some people on hornrank who have forgotten that there are students and staff members who are immunocompromised and still participate in the marching band activity I was just about to point the immunocompromised part out. It’s clear that many of you either don’t care about someone who is, or don’t know who someone who is. There are several people close to me who are and to see many here say “There’s no problem with this. Go on. If you’re scared the hell with you” is quite sad. And here we go with "if you don't want these draconian measures you want your fellow band fans with immunity issues to die." Certainly a FAR stretch that isn't true and nobody here has said such an outrageous thing. We are talking about public policy for all. There is a reason the phrase "hard cases make bad law" is the sentence. They may have to make special accommodations but we still think it is worth it for them to do band, no? If they can leave their homes they can do band in the fall.
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Post by MarchingManiac on Jun 17, 2020 12:44:51 GMT -6
Lincoln-Way started rehearsal in groups of 10 with face masks today according to their Facebook and Instagram pages.
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on Jun 17, 2020 13:07:56 GMT -6
It is inconvenient, for sure... What, specifically, would you describe as outrageous? What we have had to give up, for science that changes daily? Come on this is getting absurd. South Carolina has hundreds of cases daily, (700+) but usually only one or two deaths. The curve has flattened, and now healthy people are getting it to develop herd immunity. hydroxychloroquine alone, pretty sure on the odd number days it’s good and the even number days it’s good. So much conflicting reports. I know I know they say they didn’t know before... okay so if health officials didn’t know before what science said these lockdown measures were necessary in the first place?. I have a family friend who is a mass causality MD who has worked for some very large companies. She says no where in any epidemiological textbooks does the term “social distancing” or quarantining healthy people mentioned. Say what you will about whatever, but that’s certainly something I didn’t know before. Sure the virus is real and it has killed, but at some point living like this just isn’t right. So what we have to fight for all the things we had before? DCI WGI, ... I’m sick of it. We should be drooling over leaked dci videos right now getting ready for an incredible season, but no we can’t because China has to release a virus on the world and our authorities had to overreact. And not only that if you don’t support these measures you basically take the side of death to humanity. I call this outrageous. Thank you for offering your perspective. I understand where you are coming from: you miss things feeling "normal." You miss the comfort of your day-to-day lifestyle. I bet most people resonate with that. I have a couple questions; I'm curious for your thoughts.
You say that the science has changed daily. Can you be more specific about what kinds of changes you're alluding to? It seems natural to me that there WOULD be updates in data pretty frequently, given that this virus was discovered only 6 months ago. However, the WHO hasn't changed their advice for the public since April 29th. Regardless of what updates we may be receiving in how the virus spreads, the feedback for how to curb the spread--e.g., social distancing, wearing masks, staying home whenever possible--has remained consistent since the onset.
You say, "China has to release a virus on the world." I was unaware that China was intentional about creating and spreading a virus across the world. Can you cite evidence of this? Or was this just a misplacing of your frustrations in which you unfairly characterize China as a global villain?
You say, "our authorities had to overreact." In what ways did they overreact? Arguably, we didn't do nearly enough as a nation. Some states never shut down at all. And other states who "shut down" didn't really shut down (see: Arizona, whose stay-at-home order on March 30th still allowed for "essential services" such as hair salons, golfing, and pawn shops). Other places, like New York, did shut down, but didn't do so until they were already hit by the virus. This article from March 27th cites a public health professional who says a national lockdown should've been enacted at least ten days prior. Yesterday, over 600 medical providers urged AZ governor Doug Ducey to mandate the wearing of masks in public. That number has swelled to over 900 as of this morning. This article quotes the letter signed by these hundreds of medical providers, and the letter includes more empirical evidence about why masks should be mandatory. With the amount of consensus provided by medical and public health experts regarding our handling of coronavirus, it feels as though America's authorities have severely underreacted. An overreaction would imply that coronavirus would have been staved off... instead, we have the most cases, the most deaths, and are in the top 10 of highest infection rate per 100,000 people.
Finally, you say "if you don’t support these measures you basically take the side of death to humanity." I don't have a question for you about this: I simply agree. I would gladly give up my recreational pursuits for a temporary period of time so that my fellow citizens (and myself!) can be guaranteed the opportunity to stay alive. It is truly outrageous to think otherwise.
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Post by marimba11 on Jun 17, 2020 13:29:59 GMT -6
What we have had to give up, for science that changes daily? Come on this is getting absurd. South Carolina has hundreds of cases daily, (700+) but usually only one or two deaths. The curve has flattened, and now healthy people are getting it to develop herd immunity. hydroxychloroquine alone, pretty sure on the odd number days it’s good and the even number days it’s good. So much conflicting reports. I know I know they say they didn’t know before... okay so if health officials didn’t know before what science said these lockdown measures were necessary in the first place?. I have a family friend who is a mass causality MD who has worked for some very large companies. She says no where in any epidemiological textbooks does the term “social distancing” or quarantining healthy people mentioned. Say what you will about whatever, but that’s certainly something I didn’t know before. Sure the virus is real and it has killed, but at some point living like this just isn’t right. So what we have to fight for all the things we had before? DCI WGI, ... I’m sick of it. We should be drooling over leaked dci videos right now getting ready for an incredible season, but no we can’t because China has to release a virus on the world and our authorities had to overreact. And not only that if you don’t support these measures you basically take the side of death to humanity. I call this outrageous. Thank you for offering your perspective. I understand where you are coming from: you miss things feeling "normal." You miss the comfort of your day-to-day lifestyle. I bet most people resonate with that. I have a couple questions; I'm curious for your thoughts.
You say that the science has changed daily. Can you be more specific about what kinds of changes you're alluding to? It seems natural to me that there WOULD be updates in data pretty frequently, given that this virus was discovered only 6 months ago. However, the WHO hasn't changed their advice for the public since April 29th. Regardless of what updates we may be receiving in how the virus spreads, the feedback for how to curb the spread--e.g., social distancing, wearing masks, staying home whenever possible--has remained consistent since the onset. Hydroxychloroquine is working one day then the next day not at all. Changes all the time, couldn't have missed that coverage. In February mask wearing was not promoted, now it is... 2 million would die... here we are at 100K and that's even a stretch. Whatever you think about the "science," it is has not been consistent. Then people will say "oh because it's new!" Okay then what science said the lockdowns in March were the best option we had?? Destroy the economy, and differ care for millions... definitely a lot of downsides to that one right there!!
You say, "China has to release a virus on the world." I was unaware that China was intentional about creating and spreading a virus across the world. Can you cite evidence of this? Or was this just a misplacing of your frustrations in which you unfairly characterize China as a global villain? I said "Mother Nature man made or not..." I have no issue with china like many do, but it clearly came from there. I've been to China and is it a lovely place, excect for the animal abuse.
You say, "our authorities had to overreact." In what ways did they overreact? Arguably, we didn't do nearly enough as a nation. Some states never shut down at all. And other states who "shut down" didn't really shut down (see: Arizona, whose stay-at-home order on March 30th still allowed for "essential services" such as hair salons, golfing, and pawn shops). Other places, like New York, did shut down, but didn't do so until they were already hit by the virus. This article from March 27th cites a public health professional who says a national lockdown should've been enacted at least ten days prior. Yesterday, over 600 medical providers urged AZ governor Doug Ducey to mandate the wearing of masks in public. That number has swelled to over 900 as of this morning. This article quotes the letter signed by these hundreds of medical providers, and the letter includes more empirical evidence about why masks should be mandatory. With the amount of consensus provided by medical and public health experts regarding our handling of coronavirus, it feels as though America's authorities have severely underreacted. An overreaction would imply that coronavirus would have been staved off... instead, we have the most cases, the most deaths, and are in the top 10 of highest infection rate per 100,000 people. And we do the most testing thus the highest numbers. And how could I know more than 900 doctors in AZ you ask? I don't, clearly this issue has been politicized and you will find people to speak on either side. I just happen to not be taking the "if we don't wear masks our grandparents will die," side. I don't really like masks and don't think they're necessary unless you have the virus or taking care of someone with the virus (LIKE the WHO said last week). Makes perfect sense to me. If you or anyone wants to wear a mask makes no difference to me.
Finally, you say "if you don’t support these measures you basically take the side of death to humanity." I don't have a question for you about this: I simply agree. I would gladly give up my recreational pursuits for a temporary period of time so that my fellow citizens (and myself!) can be guaranteed the opportunity to stay alive. It is truly outrageous to think otherwise.
That is the trap that "oh I don't care about such and such with issues." Of course I do. I'm sorry this virus has been politicized and we cannot get the facts because one group is bent on being correct at all costs. But after seeing this virus for 3 months now, I think giving up our recreational pursuits (as it relates to band), is just not consequential enough to make a difference one way or the other. So why not let it continue as norm!
I was quite clear in my response about "hard cases don't make good law," pretty easy to grasp.
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Post by marimba11 on Jun 17, 2020 13:31:58 GMT -6
And here we go with "if you don't want these draconian measures you want your fellow band fans with immunity issues to die." Certainly a FAR stretch that isn't true and nobody here has said such an outrageous thing. We are talking about public policy for all. There is a reason the phrase "hard cases make bad law" is the sentence. They may have to make special accommodations but we still think it is worth it for them to do band, no? If they can leave their homes they can do band in the fall. So what about when I go to band/school, then bring it home to an immunocompromised love ones? So be extra careful around them. If you're wiling to give up your activities for them great! I am not because life is worth living when the next day is not guaranteed. Call it whatever you want... idc what you give up or don't personally.
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Post by atxbandnerd on Jun 17, 2020 13:55:28 GMT -6
The Illinois Health Chief admitted that anyone who died with Covid is listed as dying because of Covid. I don't buy any stats on this anymore. I attended my grandson's youth baseball game the other night, and it was packed...and no one was wearing masks! Thank God for some normalcy! I say, get back to it. If people are truly afraid to be outside while in the presence of other people, then stay home. There are two different things here to consider. When my father died, they listed his reason for death was sepsis. However, it started as a tooth ache that turned into tooth infection that turned into sepsis. Sad, I know. But in reality, he was a 71 year old man who also had congestive heart failure, renal failure and coronary artery disease. You don't die from congestive heart failure. Something led to the death. In my father's case, it was the sepsis. So that's what you're seeing with Covid-19. Don't buy stats. Don't wear a mask. Good luck. You aren't seeing cases creep up because this virus is going away. Its the exact opposite. I will say this. If we can manage to wash our hands, stay the eff away from one another, and just be smart about staying home when sick, we might be able to kick covid in the butt.
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Post by marimba11 on Jun 17, 2020 14:01:58 GMT -6
"100k and even that's a stretch". What exactly does that mean? We're faking deaths? People didn't really die? The numbers are inflated for political points? The corpses are actually alive but they've agreed to fake that they're dead? Yes, you can be a "presumed covid death." In other words if the dr thinks you have it they don't have to test for it. Also hospitals get a lot more money per covid patient than they do with regular patients. Definitely useful to the hospital account when you have to shut down the whole system. Dr. Burkes herself said 25% of deaths are inflated... and that is what they're telling us.
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Post by angelee on Jun 17, 2020 14:17:54 GMT -6
The Illinois Health Chief admitted that anyone who died with Covid is listed as dying because of Covid. I don't buy any stats on this anymore. I attended my grandson's youth baseball game the other night, and it was packed...and no one was wearing masks! Thank God for some normalcy! I say, get back to it. If people are truly afraid to be outside while in the presence of other people, then stay home. The governor of Indiana just spoke for an hour continuously encouraging the use of masks. This is the new normal. Ignoring the truth does not make this virus not a thing.
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Post by angelee on Jun 17, 2020 14:19:11 GMT -6
Are you suggesting that the CDC is not a mainstream source? You don't see anyone screaming from the roof tops about it. Really a moot point. Mainstream is short for "mainstream media" (fox, cnn, abc, nbc, MSNbc ect.). 99% of the people that died in Italy had preexisting conditions. Healthy people don't die from this unlike what the media would have you believe. These we're the same people who said the virus lives in the ocean water back in May... sure it does LOL. In Minnesota the average death from COVID 19 is 86. Do you know all your pre-existing conditions? How about those of your parents and your children?
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