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Post by crowncrawler on May 25, 2023 18:36:48 GMT -6
Surely this is sarcasm đđđ All jokes aside, I feel like they could do quite well with this, if they make it not a âkid friendlyâ type show like last years and more âmanlyâ like Crown used to be like. Lol no, this isn't sarcasm. It's the same shit year after year. Haven't enjoyed them since...2007? Well uhhhhhh this is awkward then xD
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Post by marimba11 on May 25, 2023 22:07:06 GMT -6
I lived in Fort Mill for 12 years, but even I have to agree with Dan. I would say since 2017 when the Boston crowd left - then on the show design was just really bizarre. There really hasn't been a good direction and yes there are some good moments and phrases, but the members have to work so much harder and be so much cleaner than BD, Coats, Boston ect. to achieve the same GE.
I thought last year's show was incredibly hokey and not in keeping with any consistency of their past shows (other than inconsistency itself lol). The fact is this design team just cannot come up with a decent package year after year despite their performance captions being stellar.
Crown has sort of turned into the CTJ of the activity, let's just throw everything but the kitchen sink at a show and see what happens! Coats does this too, but it is way more cohesive IMO.
With that said this show seems maybe slightly different like they are trying to tell a story maybe... which could be interesting and something they haven't done for a while now.
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Post by philodemus on May 26, 2023 5:37:33 GMT -6
I did not care for Crown â22, nor does this announcement immediately get me excited for â23. But, that said, I remain a little baffled by some of the Crown distaste expressed around these parts. Yes, things went downhill after Boston stole the design team, but prior to that⊠I genuinely do not understand how enthusiasts of the marching arts can fail to love Relentless, or E=MC2.
I get people have different tastes, but sometimes the gap is so large it blows me away.
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Post by marimba11 on May 26, 2023 7:15:51 GMT -6
I did not care for Crown â22, nor does this announcement immediately get me excited for â23. But, that said, I remain a little baffled by some of the Crown distaste expressed around these parts. Yes, things went downhill after Boston stole the design team, but prior to that⊠I genuinely do not understand how enthusiasts of the marching arts can fail to love Relentless, or E=MC2. I get people have different tastes, but sometimes the gap is so large it blows me away. I liked inferno! But the only other show I liked from them besides that was 2009. There are MANY boa bands that have better show designs than crown imo.
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Post by marimba11 on May 26, 2023 7:18:16 GMT -6
Iâm also really excited for BD playing both sides now as their ballad. I know itâs been done a million times but itâs a piece that doesnât get old for me. I really hope BD can slow it down a bit and really take the effect to the extreme.
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Post by paddy on May 26, 2023 7:35:20 GMT -6
I did not care for Crown â22, nor does this announcement immediately get me excited for â23. But, that said, I remain a little baffled by some of the Crown distaste expressed around these parts. Yes, things went downhill after Boston stole the design team, but prior to that⊠I genuinely do not understand how enthusiasts of the marching arts can fail to love Relentless, or E=MC2. I get people have different tastes, but sometimes the gap is so large it blows me away. "Stole" is such an interesting word use. Boston wanted to upgrade their program and made on offer to a group of people they thought could do that. Crown had every opportunity to keep them, but I'm guessing it was a bit of "too little, too late" in that regard.
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on May 26, 2023 8:29:57 GMT -6
I did not care for Crown â22, nor does this announcement immediately get me excited for â23. But, that said, I remain a little baffled by some of the Crown distaste expressed around these parts. Yes, things went downhill after Boston stole the design team, but prior to that⊠I genuinely do not understand how enthusiasts of the marching arts can fail to love Relentless, or E=MC2. I get people have different tastes, but sometimes the gap is so large it blows me away. I ultimately hated Relentless because they literally relented at the end!!!!! LOL
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Post by dbalash on May 26, 2023 8:38:52 GMT -6
I genuinely do not understand how enthusiasts of the marching arts can fail to love Relentless, or E=MC2. No and no. They got lucky in '13 with Devils putting on their most disappointing show since 2005 (2008 BD should have won but they were a trainwreck in finals, and the judges were never not going to give Phantom the title).
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Post by cinnamonpromenade on May 26, 2023 8:54:29 GMT -6
I lived in Fort Mill for 12 years, but even I have to agree with Dan. I would say since 2017 when the Boston crowd left - then on the show design was just really bizarre. There really hasn't been a good direction and yes there are some good moments and phrases, but the members have to work so much harder and be so much cleaner than BD, Coats, Boston ect. to achieve the same GE. I thought last year's show was incredibly hokey and not in keeping with any consistency of their past shows (other than inconsistency itself lol). The fact is this design team just cannot come up with a decent package year after year despite their performance captions being stellar. Crown has sort of turned into the CTJ of the activity, let's just throw everything but the kitchen sink at a show and see what happens! Coats does this too, but it is way more cohesive IMO. With that said this show seems maybe slightly different like they are trying to tell a story maybe... which could be interesting and something they haven't done for a while now. Really well said!! Your comparison to CTJ makes SO much sense. I would also compare them to Tarpon Springs; both groups play so many extraneous runs. Even if I'm wowed by the sheer difficulty or quantity of effort exerted by the performers... I typically cringe at the overall product. That's not saying that Crown (or CTJ or Tarpon) are bad by any means. I just can't relate to their shows. They are so surface level and so loud in every way. Whereas I value depth and nuance, I can see why others are roused by "loud." I'm actually interested in seeing this year's show. (I am EVERY yearâI always hope Crown will convince me.) This year, they're citing some great composers, and this theme feels so different from where they've been. That is one thing I've really appreciated about the post-2016 staff: their Paramount design team seems unafraid to try vastly different themes each year. Most new hires try to continue what that corps has done in the past; I applaud their risk in trying to take Crown to new places. I hope this is the year where their taste levels match their talent and they provide an unclockable show design. Truly, the only thing holding those performers back from another medal is their show design.
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Post by philodemus on May 26, 2023 10:10:03 GMT -6
I did not care for Crown â22, nor does this announcement immediately get me excited for â23. But, that said, I remain a little baffled by some of the Crown distaste expressed around these parts. Yes, things went downhill after Boston stole the design team, but prior to that⊠I genuinely do not understand how enthusiasts of the marching arts can fail to love Relentless, or E=MC2. I get people have different tastes, but sometimes the gap is so large it blows me away. "Stole" is such an interesting word use. Boston wanted to upgrade their program and made on offer to a group of people they thought could do that. Crown had every opportunity to keep them, but I'm guessing it was a bit of "too little, too late" in that regard. Donât read too much into the word choice, it was meant as more of an offhand joke than a moral indictment.
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Post by philodemus on May 26, 2023 10:20:15 GMT -6
I genuinely do not understand how enthusiasts of the marching arts can fail to love Relentless, or E=MC2. No and no. They got lucky in '13 with Devils putting on their most disappointing show since 2005 (2008 BD should have won but they were a trainwreck in finals, and the judges were never not going to give Phantom the title). I knew you felt that way, and thatâs totally cool that you do⊠All Iâm really trying to say is something like, âIsnât it wild how two observers can come to such wildly disparate aesthetic conclusions from watching/listening to the same piece of art?â Not judging anyone for disagreeing with me aesthetically, just quite surprised.
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Post by vidal28rdg on May 26, 2023 12:03:27 GMT -6
I genuinely do not understand how enthusiasts of the marching arts can fail to love Relentless, or E=MC2. No and no. They got lucky in '13 with Devils putting on their most disappointing show since 2005 (2008 BD should have won but they were a trainwreck in finals, and the judges were never not going to give Phantom the title). I do hope this is satire and Iâm just falling for the bit lol
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Post by dbalash on May 26, 2023 12:22:52 GMT -6
No and no. They got lucky in '13 with Devils putting on their most disappointing show since 2005 (2008 BD should have won but they were a trainwreck in finals, and the judges were never not going to give Phantom the title). I do hope this is satire and Iâm just falling for the bit lol Nope. My dislike of Crown's design has been long and well documented.
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Post by crowncrawler on May 26, 2023 13:58:58 GMT -6
I do hope this is satire and Iâm just falling for the bit lol Nope. My dislike of Crown's design has been long and well documented. It's funny I feel the same but toward BD, their design formula just bores me at this point. But I mean different tastes are what keep discussions in forums like this fun
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Post by marimba11 on May 26, 2023 14:35:21 GMT -6
I lived in Fort Mill for 12 years, but even I have to agree with Dan. I would say since 2017 when the Boston crowd left - then on the show design was just really bizarre. There really hasn't been a good direction and yes there are some good moments and phrases, but the members have to work so much harder and be so much cleaner than BD, Coats, Boston ect. to achieve the same GE. I thought last year's show was incredibly hokey and not in keeping with any consistency of their past shows (other than inconsistency itself lol). The fact is this design team just cannot come up with a decent package year after year despite their performance captions being stellar. Crown has sort of turned into the CTJ of the activity, let's just throw everything but the kitchen sink at a show and see what happens! Coats does this too, but it is way more cohesive IMO. With that said this show seems maybe slightly different like they are trying to tell a story maybe... which could be interesting and something they haven't done for a while now. Really well said!! Your comparison to CTJ makes SO much sense. I would also compare them to Tarpon Springs; both groups play so many extraneous runs. Even if I'm wowed by the sheer difficulty or quantity of effort exerted by the performers... I typically cringe at the overall product. That's not saying that Crown (or CTJ or Tarpon) are bad by any means. I just can't relate to their shows. They are so surface level and so loud in every way. Whereas I value depth and nuance, I can see why others are roused by "loud." I'm actually interested in seeing this year's show. (I am EVERY yearâI always hope Crown will convince me.) This year, they're citing some great composers, and this theme feels so different from where they've been. That is one thing I've really appreciated about the post-2016 staff: their Paramount design team seems unafraid to try vastly different themes each year. Most new hires try to continue what that corps has done in the past; I applaud their risk in trying to take Crown to new places. I hope this is the year where their taste levels match their talent and they provide an unclockable show design. Truly, the only thing holding those performers back from another medal is their show design. Thank you! I have no hate for Crown really and wish them the best they have a great instructional staff, just the rest are putting out more effective shows
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Post by marimba11 on May 26, 2023 14:38:35 GMT -6
Nope. My dislike of Crown's design has been long and well documented. It's funny I feel the same but toward BD, their design formula just bores me at this point. But I mean different tastes are what keep discussions in forums like this fun Thatâs honestly true. BD definitely does have a formula that seems pretty consistent, but their narrative âin house conceptâ changes very dramatically every year. But they do all have a very similar vibe. Which honestly Iâm still digging what they put out, even with their odd horn line sorority. I do much prefer Crown/ Boston brass than I do BDs. Again just preference. Although last years BD brass was amazing
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Post by hewhowaits on May 26, 2023 15:29:37 GMT -6
I do hope this is satire and Iâm just falling for the bit lol Nope. My dislike of Crown's design has been long and well documented. Dan was a non-fan of Crown's design when he still had hair.
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Post by salvation on May 26, 2023 15:29:44 GMT -6
Can't wait to watch Boston Crusaders 2010 Carolina Crown 2023 this summer!
In all honestly, from the things I've heard, I am not excited for this show, feels like the merging of uninspiring Crown brass writing, with more uninspiring Blue Knights design philosiphies.
Crown slating themselves in the 4-5 slot will continue.
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Post by hewhowaits on May 26, 2023 15:31:21 GMT -6
Nope. My dislike of Crown's design has been long and well documented. It's funny I feel the same but toward BD, their design formula just bores me at this point. But I mean different tastes are what keep discussions in forums like this fun You hit the nail on the head. BD has a formula - and it works so they'll stick with it. On the BOA side, think about Carmel. Few, if any, of their shows "wow" the viewer but the formula works with the judges. In that sense, Carmel is the BD of BOA
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Post by LeanderMomma on May 26, 2023 16:27:22 GMT -6
It's funny I feel the same but toward BD, their design formula just bores me at this point. But I mean different tastes are what keep discussions in forums like this fun You hit the nail on the head. BD has a formula - and it works so they'll stick with it. On the BOA side, think about Carmel. Few, if any, of their shows "wow" the viewer but the formula works with the judges. In that sense, Carmel is the BD of BOA Excellent comparison.
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Post by dbalash on May 26, 2023 17:06:46 GMT -6
Nope. My dislike of Crown's design has been long and well documented. Dan was a non-fan of Crown's design when he still had hair. Hey now, I liked Crown back then! ....18 years ago when I started losing my hair...
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Post by vidal28rdg on May 26, 2023 21:33:30 GMT -6
It's funny I feel the same but toward BD, their design formula just bores me at this point. But I mean different tastes are what keep discussions in forums like this fun Thatâs honestly true. BD definitely does have a formula that seems pretty consistent, but their narrative âin house conceptâ changes very dramatically every year. But they do all have a very similar vibe. Which honestly Iâm still digging what they put out, even with their odd horn line sorority. I do much prefer Crown/ Boston brass than I do BDs. Again just preference. Although last years BD brass was amazing It helps to be unique, one could argue BD isnât particularly reinventing the wheel every year with how they are because they donât need to, no one is copying what they do. What they are on the field is already unique in itself for the reasons you mentioned, and why they probably sound more fresh and impactful, especially this year compared to what Crown has put out since Iâd argue 2017. For the sport of it all and having other favorites, I donât root for BD to win, but they are experts in maintaining the allure and uniqueness of who they are, the mystique hasnât left and their identity is strong. The best corps rn are the ones that are fully entrenched in strong identity and vision, the rest of the podium last year in Boston and Bloo prove it, while corps that have the talent to match them in SCV and Crown have taken steps back in their appeal to audiences in my view. But again, maybe taking a step back from basing your enjoyment of a product solely on the show design and bringing it back to the performance thatâs happening in the moment I think would make more appreciative and less fickle fans I believe. Identity is important, but if the performance hits in the moment, let it ride haha
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Post by vidal28rdg on May 26, 2023 21:37:08 GMT -6
It's funny I feel the same but toward BD, their design formula just bores me at this point. But I mean different tastes are what keep discussions in forums like this fun You hit the nail on the head. BD has a formula - and it works so they'll stick with it. On the BOA side, think about Carmel. Few, if any, of their shows "wow" the viewer but the formula works with the judges. In that sense, Carmel is the BD of BOA Not the biggest Carmel fan either, but even if a show is more subdued and less âwowwyâ there are still avenues and opportunities for one to be wowed if they look for them, especially considering how much of their effects both visually and musically are wholly dependent on the collective buy-in of the group and that ainât easy to do. Plus being a group that âmoves differentlyâ in approach should gain points for being able to stand out. They arenât the only ones that do, but they are notable and successful for doing what they do and having a strong identity. Pivoting to Grand Nats for a sec, itâll most definitely be a good one this year, highly competitive, several bands will attempt to take Carmel off their perch, itâll be very interesting to see what September and October have in store for those that are seeking to match their quality of performance and where they are in the process leading up to it!
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Post by philodemus on May 27, 2023 6:27:27 GMT -6
BD and Carmel both have a formula, but their formulas feel nothing alike. Carmel, if anything, is overdesigned⊠every rough edge smoothed off, everything slick and purposeful. That ainât BD, who Iâm pretty sure havenât had a defined drill set since 1986.
You know who BD is? BD is Onyx. First, you recruit a batch of the most talented people in the world, then you go out on the floor or field with no plan of any sort, pick a handful of them and say, âYou 4? Run over that way as far as you can in 16 counts then do a cool trick you know.â âMeanwhile, you 3? You go that way and do a different cool trick.â
Then you like at the judges and say with a very, very earnest face, âThe Emperorâs new clothes are of such high quality only those of the most refined taste and sophistication can see them⊠you do see them, right?â
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Post by marimba11 on May 27, 2023 12:15:44 GMT -6
Thatâs honestly true. BD definitely does have a formula that seems pretty consistent, but their narrative âin house conceptâ changes very dramatically every year. But they do all have a very similar vibe. Which honestly Iâm still digging what they put out, even with their odd horn line sorority. I do much prefer Crown/ Boston brass than I do BDs. Again just preference. Although last years BD brass was amazing It helps to be unique, one could argue BD isnât particularly reinventing the wheel every year with how they are because they donât need to, no one is copying what they do. What they are on the field is already unique in itself for the reasons you mentioned, and why they probably sound more fresh and impactful, especially this year compared to what Crown has put out since Iâd argue 2017. For the sport of it all and having other favorites, I donât root for BD to win, but they are experts in maintaining the allure and uniqueness of who they are, the mystique hasnât left and their identity is strong. The best corps rn are the ones that are fully entrenched in strong identity and vision, the rest of the podium last year in Boston and Bloo prove it, while corps that have the talent to match them in SCV and Crown have taken steps back in their appeal to audiences in my view. But again, maybe taking a step back from basing your enjoyment of a product solely on the show design and bringing it back to the performance thatâs happening in the moment I think would make more appreciative and less fickle fans I believe. Identity is important, but if the performance hits in the moment, let it ride haha BD totally has a formula! And I can totally get why people see it as very repetitive. From a show design standpoint it does seem like the same show with a different name over and over again. Itâll catch up to them eventually, but for now their strengths are keeping them at the top rightfully so
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Post by TXHillCountryBands on May 27, 2023 12:56:20 GMT -6
You hit the nail on the head. BD has a formula - and it works so they'll stick with it. On the BOA side, think about Carmel. Few, if any, of their shows "wow" the viewer but the formula works with the judges. In that sense, Carmel is the BD of BOA Not the biggest Carmel fan either, but even if a show is more subdued and less âwowwyâ there are still avenues and opportunities for one to be wowed if they look for them, especially considering how much of their effects both visually and musically are wholly dependent on the collective buy-in of the group and that ainât easy to do. Plus being a group that âmoves differentlyâ in approach should gain points for being able to stand out. They arenât the only ones that do, but they are notable and successful for doing what they do and having a strong identity. Pivoting to Grand Nats for a sec, itâll most definitely be a good one this year, highly competitive, several bands will attempt to take Carmel off their perch, itâll be very interesting to see what September and October have in store for those that are seeking to match their quality of performance and where they are in the process leading up to it! I agree. BD is a staple and entrenched in Corp traditions that may or may not have that âwowâ effect compared to Crown but to compare them to Carmel is a stretch imo. They (BD) still and have always sustained on all DCI adjudication metrics top 10% - early year excluded. Consider visual presentations of late have been lack lustered compared to Crown but musically - music demand is always Top 5 year over year! Valve movements per music books are and have been unreal and whether or not one can make an argument for Crown superiority - Iâd agree but itâs not by much in terms of valve movements, execution and ME! To say that is what is going on In BOA with the Carmel program is misleading. Before the tar feathering commences let me explain. Yes Carmel is a visual and design top tier program but they are relying on a circuit metric that arguably overly rewards designer and visual standards. See 2010âs. Humbly and In love I say that the Greyhoundâs canât execute musically (DEMAND execution, VALVE MOVEMENT and intonation demands) compared to the Top half of the high school elite list in the 2010âs and of recent. Interested in opposing opinions.
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Post by BandHomer on May 27, 2023 14:52:23 GMT -6
Hey how âbout those DCI production announcements?!? Super excited to hear more about DCI on this DCI forum. Yup. Super excited!
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Post by N.E. Brigand on May 27, 2023 15:48:31 GMT -6
Carolina Crown: "The Round Table: Echoes of Camelot"Featuring music from:Thomas Newman Björk Bela Bartok Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart David Hirschfelder Richard Wagner Henry Purcell Elliot Goldenthal Michael Martin Michael Klesch Kevin Shah Mike Jackson That seems like too many musical selections to do any one of them justice. (That's not a problem that is unique to Crown.)
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Post by bigtrombone on May 27, 2023 16:10:41 GMT -6
Carolina Crown: "The Round Table: Echoes of Camelot"Featuring music from:Thomas Newman Björk Bela Bartok Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart David Hirschfelder Richard Wagner Henry Purcell Elliot Goldenthal Michael Martin Michael Klesch Kevin Shah Mike Jackson That seems like too many musical selections to do any one of them justice. (That's not a problem that is unique to Crown.) I frequent the Drum Corps subreddit and this was brought up in a thread about Crown's show. Someone said that it was 2018-levels of too much repertoire, but someone also pointed out that Blue Devils and Boston this year both have equally as much repertoires as Crown. To be honest, the only thing I'm really intrigued about with this show is how they tackle the Bartok piece (which is rumored be at 210 BPM), but aside from that, I'm not all that intrigued by the show. I will reserve judgement until I actually see it.
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Post by bigtrombone on Jun 2, 2023 12:01:49 GMT -6
A little late to post this, but 2 more corps have announced their shows in the past week:
Blue Stars: In ABSINTHEia
Featuring the Music of: - Everfish - Michael Torke - Orville Peck - Symbion Project featuring Melissa R. Kaplan - Jim Wunderlich
Pacific Crest: Goddess
Featuring the Music of: - Vienna Tang - Claude Debussy - Joseph Hellmesberger - Yasuhide Ito - Sergei Prokofiev
Crossmen & Bluecoats are the only world class corps who have yet to reveal their shows.
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