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Post by bigtrombone on Aug 21, 2023 13:37:52 GMT -6
Okay, this thread has absolutely fascinated me to the point I am boring friends and relations talking about it… and the next thing I am now wondering and hoping this community can help me find out is: How many Wes bands are there? So, HornRank community…. Comprehensive list of Wes bands, go! Tiered order is purposeful (by level of design and direct involvement): Broken Arrow William Mason Dobyns-Bennett Prosper Brownsburg Mustang LD Bell Rosemount James Madison Camdenton ...I'm forgetting some A few random Oklahoma bands close to his home base A random one, but didn't Washington H.S., MO have a Wes-designed show last year? I remember seeing them at St. Louis last year and thought, "that looks like a Wes-designed show?" I think ilikeguard also expressed the same sentiments in last year's St. Louis thread. |
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Post by yayband914 on Aug 21, 2023 13:42:58 GMT -6
Tiered order is purposeful (by level of design and direct involvement): Broken Arrow William Mason Dobyns-Bennett Prosper Brownsburg Mustang LD Bell Rosemount James Madison Camdenton ...I'm forgetting some A few random Oklahoma bands close to his home base A random one, but didn't Washington H.S., MO have a Wes-designed show last year? I remember seeing them at St. Louis last year and thought, "that looks like a Wes-designed show?" I think ilikeguard also expressed the same sentiments in last year's St. Louis thread. You are correct, and this is in fact a big reason Camdenton did not perform at STL last year. I have been told (if I remember correctly) that Wes’s contract does not allow any of his groups within the same class to compete against each other at the same contest (not sure if that’s specific to BOA or all contests). |
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Post by macwinlin on Aug 21, 2023 14:16:35 GMT -6
A random one, but didn't Washington H.S., MO have a Wes-designed show last year? I remember seeing them at St. Louis last year and thought, "that looks like a Wes-designed show?" I think ilikeguard also expressed the same sentiments in last year's St. Louis thread. You are correct, and this is in fact a big reason Camdenton did not perform at STL last year. I have been told (if I remember correctly) that Wes’s contract does not allow any of his groups within the same class to compete against each other at the same contest (not sure if that’s specific to BOA or all contests). There's no way, because his groups do it all the time. Would be interesting to know more about that. Maybe it's specific to Camdenton or certain MO groups? |
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Post by yayband914 on Aug 21, 2023 14:23:43 GMT -6
You are correct, and this is in fact a big reason Camdenton did not perform at STL last year. I have been told (if I remember correctly) that Wes’s contract does not allow any of his groups within the same class to compete against each other at the same contest (not sure if that’s specific to BOA or all contests). There's no way, because his groups do it all the time. Would be interesting to know more about that. Maybe it's specific to Camdenton or certain MO groups? I thought that seemed odd when I was told that. Maybe I misheard or misunderstood something. |
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Post by hewhowaits on Aug 21, 2023 14:30:17 GMT -6
You are correct, and this is in fact a big reason Camdenton did not perform at STL last year. I have been told (if I remember correctly) that Wes’s contract does not allow any of his groups within the same class to compete against each other at the same contest (not sure if that’s specific to BOA or all contests). There's no way, because his groups do it all the time. Would be interesting to know more about that. Maybe it's specific to Camdenton or certain MO groups? Just look at the years with multiple Wes shows in Grand Nationals Finals for proof that there's no such prohibition. Even before the expansion to other finalists, there were multiple years of both Broken Arrow and William Mason. |
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Post by yayband914 on Aug 21, 2023 14:38:08 GMT -6
There's no way, because his groups do it all the time. Would be interesting to know more about that. Maybe it's specific to Camdenton or certain MO groups? Just look at the years with multiple Wes shows in Grand Nationals Finals for proof that there's no such prohibition. Even before the expansion to other finalists, there were multiple years of both Broken Arrow and William Mason. I thought perhaps Grand Nationals was the exception. I hadn’t really dove in to the other regionals, like I probably should have.  |
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Post by ilikeguard on Aug 21, 2023 16:16:49 GMT -6
A random one, but didn't Washington H.S., MO have a Wes-designed show last year? I remember seeing them at St. Louis last year and thought, "that looks like a Wes-designed show?" I think ilikeguard also expressed the same sentiments in last year's St. Louis thread. You are correct, and this is in fact a big reason Camdenton did not perform at STL last year. I have been told (if I remember correctly) that Wes’s contract does not allow any of his groups within the same class to compete against each other at the same contest (not sure if that’s specific to BOA or all contests). This would be weird, considering Camdenton and BA are together at contests all the time. I’m not sure if Washington is going to be a consistent client, either – last year’s show was pretty packaged. It would be pretty neat, though! I’d love to see more small schools on the Cartwright model. Washington and Camdenton are very similarly-sized high schools. Edit: I didn’t see the word class for some reason lol…but the rest of what I said still stands! |
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Post by looking2future on Aug 24, 2023 7:44:46 GMT -6
I was invited to come view the comments on this thread by another user and usually take this with a grain of salt and enjoy it for its entertainment value. But for some reason comments herein are far more than entertaining when they attempt to directly insult and discredit one individual, and for that shame on you.
Let me begin my rant by answering the original thread title:
A band show costs as much or as little as the band director deems necessary.
It can be simple or intense. It can be meaningful or satirical. You see as with most things in life the limits are your imagination, budget, and maybe level of competitiveness.
Can band directors write shows, develop drill, design costumes, uniforms, props, flags, choose show topic, music, get rights if needed, develop sound effects, write/rewrite/score music to flow with show concepts, along with teaching the music, drill, along with other administrative duties and school/student responsibilities, absolutely. But at what cost to the director or band staff? And is the director willing to take on these responsibilities? Only a director can answer these questions, and each director has their reasons to or not to do this. (Of course this is not a comprehensive list of their duties or responsibilities.) There is also another option, and that is to hire someone or a company to provide you a show and/or other responsibilities.
Should the director elect to hire a company it then comes to, what is the value they are willing to pay for what services. Is the designer they hire going to visit their location? If so, how many times, how are they getting there, driving? flying? How many days are they staying? Do they need a hotel room? Do they need a rental car? Are they using Uber? So now not only are we looking at the cost of a product, but now we have travel and logistical costs to consider. (Or as some of you think this all happens magically, or the designer should just eat these costs.) There is always the option… oh here’s the program, go do with it what you want…. LOL then you all would really have a field day cutting a designer down.
Regarding those who decide to produce their own show let me ask if you think their staff, payroll and benefits and overhead do not reflect the additional cost of the staff to handle this activity? If you think not, you are fooling yourself and are more out of touch than I think.
Throughout this thread I see “I know”, I’ve heard” “I believe” …. But not ONE comment herein says “when I worked with”, “when I talked to a client of”, “when I spoke to Wes” ……. So basically all these comments are SPECULATION or HERESY at best and hold no legitimacy what so ever, but you continue to fan the fire. Let me ask, It is human nature? Is it jealousy? Is it your lack of being able to do nothing more than discredit someone else to make yourself feel more worthy?
Yes, band is for the students, helping them grow, enhancing their talent, their art, and yes life skills. Fortunately, some have the unique opportunity to be under the direction of some great band directors, others not so much. And maybe they could be better directors if they put as much effort into teaching as they do social media.
Regarding your hierarchy of Cartwright clients, again I’m amused. Regardless if he has 1 or 61 clients, his business is none of yours. If you see a group in competition and you wish the know the designer, cool. As it is…. you don’t know, so you speculate… and because someone reads it here they will take it as gospel! And continue to spread untruths. Lol. Let’s just say couldn’t be further from the truth and pretty much have no idea of what you are talking about. FYI, Wes clients pay for his services and or product/idea. That cost is relative to what the Band Director wants. Some want just a costume design, some want an entire production. Some want no additional input, some want video consultation, some what weekly on site meetings/reviews. Ultimately, you pay the price for what you desire. This bull about “it’s his way or the Highway” is again another speculation of some mindless know nothing nobody.
Regarding competitions, let me ask what fool would compete with himself, or put two of his clients up against each other. REALLY, so not only do you not have business sense you have no common sense? It’s bad enough to go to Grand Nationals and have 5 groups competing for the same title. Now imagine you creating 5 completely different shows, with 5 completely different elements, and not one be reflective of another. That takes talent, it’s not luck. And if you think it’s not work, again you live in another world. Or better yet, if you are so good, you try it!
I think I’ve pretty much covered all your issues herein with the exception of, there is a company that does not have a website, does not advertise, limits their client base so that they can provide a superior product, yes this is Wes-Cartwright, LLC. Of course Wes has done podcasts which contains useful info, so you seem to promote that herein. He cares about the Band, the Student, the activity, the creativity, and the competitiveness. Yes, accolades have been bestowed upon him, rightfully so, as the collective efforts of those involved have proven to be successful not only with awards at the State, Regional, and National levels to include the highest ever BOA Grand Nationals score, but also the biggest award every time some group uses or try’s to emulate something he has introduced to the activity. So I guess the product speaks for itself!
With all this being said. I am NOT Wes Cartwright, I have however talked with him extensively one on one, and would suggest before continuing your rants of untruths you may want to do the same, or at least educate yourself to what he really does for bands, for schools, for students and this activity! And no, I am not here to take your questions, just to set the record straight and I apologize if this does not meet your agenda.
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Post by philodemus on Aug 24, 2023 8:00:08 GMT -6
I feel like there have been some snarky comments on here [from myself included] but the conversation has mostly been more nuanced than you are giving it credit for. Even when saying, as I have, that we might prefer the work of another designer, I don't think anyone has said they thought his designs were bad or undeserving of the praise they receive. I'm a fan, I think we all are.
Speaking just for myself, I am absolutely torn between, "what people are willing to pay is completely fair, he has a right to profit and programs have the right to choose how they spend their funds" on the one hand... and "$54K for program coordination is far beyond what most public schools can ever, ever hope to afford and while I knew the disparity in funding was a big issue in our activity, I honestly didn't know it was this big until now."
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Post by Allohak on Aug 24, 2023 8:25:39 GMT -6
Reading comprehension is hard, guys
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Post by yayband914 on Aug 24, 2023 8:48:58 GMT -6
There, no more reason to speculate like know-nothing nobodies since we have all been elucidated.
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Post by warehouse314 on Aug 24, 2023 9:33:46 GMT -6
I don't know, but there was this one group that was consistently winning Grand National Championships in the mid to late-2010's and also won three times in a row. I think they also won last year too. Avon won three times in a row 2008-2010 but did not win last year. Hmm... Who could it be? |
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Post by yayband914 on Aug 24, 2023 9:35:47 GMT -6
Avon won three times in a row 2008-2010 but did not win last year. Hmm... Who could it be? Werther’s Original. |
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Post by paddy on Aug 24, 2023 11:03:03 GMT -6
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Post by OldSchoolTrumpet on Aug 24, 2023 11:39:45 GMT -6
TL/DR - He's not Wes. Allegedly. |
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Post by paddy on Aug 24, 2023 11:44:44 GMT -6
TL/DR - He's not Wes. Allegedly. FYI - I'm not Wes either, allegedly. |
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Post by philodemus on Aug 24, 2023 13:28:04 GMT -6
I actually am Wes… you got me. I just didn’t realize how much I was making.
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Post by principalagent on Aug 24, 2023 15:25:29 GMT -6
Y’all, this is a Wendy’s.
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Post by ilikeguard on Aug 24, 2023 15:29:51 GMT -6
Not taking every post on here with a million grains of salt is a huge mistake
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Post by ilikeguard on Aug 24, 2023 15:31:36 GMT -6
I’m on mobile can someone put up a screenshot of the dril tweet that says “i’m not mad. please dont put it in the newspaper that i got mad”
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breg
Full Member
Posts: 39
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Post by breg on Aug 24, 2023 15:52:26 GMT -6
Guys I’m here
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Post by principalagent on Aug 24, 2023 15:54:27 GMT -6
Stop that. Not even as a joke. |
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Post by flagdodger on Aug 24, 2023 16:11:06 GMT -6
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Post by paddy on Aug 24, 2023 16:41:32 GMT -6
Stop that. Not even as a joke. Been registered since April 2021. That is some serious commitment to the long game. |
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Post by hewhowaits on Aug 24, 2023 17:13:49 GMT -6
Stop that. Not even as a joke. Been registered since April 2021. That is some serious commitment to the long game. Not with that screen name. Highly unlikely that any of the moderators would have approved a username on a new account with something as recognizable as that. |
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Post by Allohak on Aug 24, 2023 17:14:31 GMT -6
Stop that. Not even as a joke. Been registered since April 2021. That is some serious commitment to the long game. It's very easy to modify display name on an existing account |
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Post by paddy on Aug 24, 2023 18:35:53 GMT -6
That’s a real bug in the forum then. Usernames should be very hard to change.
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Post by Allohak on Aug 24, 2023 18:50:43 GMT -6
That’s a real bug in the forum then. Usernames should be very hard to change. Username not changeable, display name, very much so |
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Post by Subito Fortissimo on Aug 24, 2023 19:09:23 GMT -6
I don't know about y'all but I really hope a Cartwright client does a show about waffles in the near future.  Edit: Or a Vento client, I don't really care. I just want waffles. |
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Post by thewho on Aug 24, 2023 19:16:41 GMT -6
That’s a real bug in the forum then. Usernames should be very hard to change. Username not changeable, display name, very much so Let's call this post a quick mod PSA. I'll add on the mod ends that we still know who people are despite changing usernames. For all, please don't get ideas and go around posting nonsense behind random usernames. I think it was certainly funny having faux Cartwright pop up, but I don't think us mods would let this fly in the future if people impersonated others to an uncomfortable degree. If your username and posting behavior leads others to believe to be a significant figure, the mod team will take steps to put a halt to whatever may be, whether by banning or other remedial actions. This will always be a case-by-case basis, obviously, but that kind of behavior won't win any favors. |
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