Value/Costs for a Marching Band Show

[marimba11]

At the end of the day, Wes has actually done A LOT for this activity. IMO BOA is where the design and GE monsters are, not DCI because it takes more to stand out in BOA.

If people have the $$ to spend and want an all-inclusive package, I think that’s great. If you want to be like Avon and do everything in-house (for the most part) - also great. Like someone said earlier, it’s up to the directors!

[abtwitch]

Hey y'all it's been a minute. Did I miss anything?

[yayband914]

Aug 24, 2023 23:19:16 GMT -6 abtwitch said:

Hey y'all it's been a minute. Did I miss anything?

Nothing to report, pretty calm and uneventful over here.

[paddy]

Aug 24, 2023 18:50:43 GMT -6 Allohak said:

Aug 24, 2023 18:35:53 GMT -6 paddy said:

That’s a real bug in the forum then. Usernames should be very hard to change.

Username not changeable, display name, very much so

Thank the lord we been saved by semantics.

[ohioguy2]

Aug 18, 2023 4:12:00 GMT -6 ohioguy2 said:

Aug 17, 2023 21:52:41 GMT -6 yayband914 said:

Here is what a top-tier Wes Cartwright show probably looks like:

$50,000 — Program Coordination
$10,000-25,000 — Drill Design
$10,000-25,000 — Wind Arrangements
$5,000-15,000 — Front Ensemble Arrangements
$5,000-10,000 — Battery Arrangements 
$5,000-10,000 — Sound Design
$5,000-10,000 — Choreography

Expect to spend a minimum of close to six figures on show design alone if you’re a group like Broken Arrow or William Mason. Again, this is just alleged based on what I have heard throughout the years and from what I have seen on these forums. But it seems to hold up. 

This is, categorically, not the norm. 

The norm looks something like this for your typical “mid-to-high tier” BOA band, give or take:

$5,000-15,000 — Program Coordination (if any)
$3,000-10,000 — Drill Design
$3,000-8,000 — Wind Arrangements
$2,000-5,000 — Front Ensemble Arrangements
$2,000-5,000 — Battery Arrangements
$2,000-5,000 — Sound Design
$1,000-5,000 — Choreography

So probably around $20,000 at the low end and around $50,000 at the high end for design for your average band from your average suburb.

Program coordination is not a service utilized by all, and in that case it is usually more of a team effort between the director(s), music and visual designers.

This doesn’t include costs for music copyright, props, custom tops and/or updated uniforms, travel, competition signup fees, etc. 

Marching band ain’t cheap, y’all!

With Mason, at least, it’s documented, you just have to know where to find it. The Mason schools have a policy that all of the money spent by their booster groups to hire people has to be approved by the school board, so it all ends up in the public record of their meetings in the minutes.

If you go to Page 10 of this document you can see where Cartwright was approved for this year. It says “up to $54,000,” but I can’t imagine they get this approved and then don’t pay him all of this.

go.boarddocs.com/oh/mason/Board.nsf/files/CNDSAD71408B/$file/1.24.23%20Board%20Agenda%20Documents%20PDF.xlsx%20-%20Board%20Agenda%201.24.23%20(7).pdf

And from a different meeting, here is where Leon May was approved to be their drill writer for the year at $18,500. This one is on Page 6.

go.boarddocs.com/oh/mason/Board.nsf/files/CPWKJ9520FB8/$file/3.14.23%20Board%20Agenda%20Document.xlsx%20-%20Board%20Agenda%203.14.23.pdf


They pay Michael Rosales $24,000 for choreography and Jim Wunderlich $30,000 for music. That means just for those four designers they pay $126,500. 

If anyone is interested, Mason has once again hired Wes Cartwright for the 2024 season at $54,000, which is the same as what he was paid in 2023. It was approved by their school board on Tuesday night, and can be seen on page 7 of this document.

go.boarddocs.com/oh/mason/Board.nsf/files/CYEJWD4E6DF4/$file/12.12.23%20Board%20Agenda%20Personnel%20Documents.xlsx%20-%20Board%20Agenda%20.pdf

[yayband914]

Not this starting back up again. 🙈

[LeanderMomma]

Dec 15, 2023 19:05:02 GMT -6 yayband914 said:

Not this starting back up again. 🙈

wouldn’t mind seeing Mason going a different direction soon!

[hewhowaits]

Dec 18, 2023 7:34:42 GMT -6 LeanderMomma said:

Dec 15, 2023 19:05:02 GMT -6 yayband914 said:

Not this starting back up again. 🙈

wouldn’t mind seeing Mason going a different direction soon!

• Mason does what Mason does.
  
• Mason does what Mason does very well.
• Nobody else is currently doing what Mason does.
• We need Mason to keep doing what Mason does.

[LeanderMomma]

Dec 18, 2023 8:45:33 GMT -6 hewhowaits said:

Dec 18, 2023 7:34:42 GMT -6 LeanderMomma said:

wouldn’t mind seeing Mason going a different direction soon!

• Mason does what Mason does.
  
• Mason does what Mason does very well.
• Nobody else is currently doing what Mason does.
• We need Mason to keep doing what Mason does.

I just meant away from Cartwright.

[ilikeguard]

Hello old thread! Does anyone have insight on what the cost is for a custom uniform design? Purely the concept art. I’ve been drawing uniforms for a few years now and am interested in possibly being paid for it but I have no clue what industry rate is. 🙈

[paddy]

Aug 24, 2024 12:24:54 GMT -6 ilikeguard said:

Hello old thread! Does anyone have insight on what the cost is for a custom uniform design? Purely the concept art. I’ve been drawing uniforms for a few years now and am interested in possibly being paid for it but I have no clue what industry rate is. 🙈

I don’t know of anyone who is doing just the design/concept art and not supplying the finished costume.

I know people who do visual element design (show logo, flag design, tarp design, costume consultation) but most of the costume designs I see are from in house designers at costume shops at the behest of a program coordinator.

If you want to do this I think you would want to include the other elements in your design repertoire.

[ilikeguard]

Aug 24, 2024 12:44:15 GMT -6 paddy said:

Aug 24, 2024 12:24:54 GMT -6 ilikeguard said:

Hello old thread! Does anyone have insight on what the cost is for a custom uniform design? Purely the concept art. I’ve been drawing uniforms for a few years now and am interested in possibly being paid for it but I have no clue what industry rate is. 🙈

I don’t know of anyone who is doing just the design/concept art and not supplying the finished costume.

I know people who do visual element design (show logo, flag design, tarp design, costume consultation) but most of the costume designs I see are from in house designers at costume shops at the behest of a program coordinator.

If you want to do this I think you would want to include the other elements in your design repertoire.

Oh of course! I’m interested in overall costume and scenic design. Just wondering if anyone has seen what it looks like broken down, lol.

[philodemus]

It varies a lot.

Like was already noted, you usually have artists attached to producers/printers. Some of them actually don’t charge an “art fee” and make all their profit from the sale of the physical item. I suppose they must have artists on staff who are paid a regular salary instead of paying per artwork/design.

Of those that do have an art fee, it varies per item. Flags are least expensive since it’s pretty easy to place a design on a big flat thing… so, like $50 to $100? Guard uniforms are the most expensive because it’s pretty hard to think through the patterning on a unitard or skirt, plus—and this is key—lay out the design so that it looks good from XXS to 5XL. That art fee can be like, $500.

But, notice a lot that is the ‘patterning’, a specialized technical skill. I don’t know what percentage of that $500 goes to someone who has the original concept and does a sketch… half, maybe?

As far as independent designers with no affiliation to a manufacturer, they do exist. Usually it’s gonna be folks like the Ventos with good name recognition and they bundle the costume or flag sketches in with your overall program coordination. Often folks like that have a relationship with specific manufacturers behind the scenes, though.

The whole band industry is like that. It’s smaller than you think, and companies who look like competitors are often all gettting their stuff printed in the same shop with different labels added.

[ilikeguard]

Aug 25, 2024 6:43:00 GMT -6 philodemus said:

It varies a lot.

Like was already noted, you usually have artists attached to producers/printers. Some of them actually don’t charge an “art fee” and make all their profit from the sale of the physical item. I suppose they must have artists on staff who are paid a regular salary instead of paying per artwork/design.

Of those that do have an art fee, it varies per item. Flags are least expensive since it’s pretty easy to place a design on a big flat thing… so, like $50 to $100? Guard uniforms are the most expensive because it’s pretty hard to think through the patterning on a unitard or skirt, plus—and this is key—lay out the design so that it looks good from XXS to 5XL. That art fee can be like, $500.

But, notice a lot that is the ‘patterning’, a specialized technical skill. I don’t know what percentage of that $500 goes to someone who has the original concept and does a sketch… half, maybe?

As far as independent designers with no affiliation to a manufacturer, they do exist. Usually it’s gonna be folks like the Ventos with good name recognition and they bundle the costume or flag sketches in with your overall program coordination. Often folks like that have a relationship with specific manufacturers behind the scenes, though.

The whole band industry is like that. It’s smaller than you think, and companies who look like competitors are often all gettting their stuff printed in the same shop with different labels added.

Thank you!