|
Post by philodemus on Nov 6, 2023 16:30:08 GMT -6
You don’t have to agree, and that’s alright. Agreed.
|
|
|
Post by ohbandfan on Nov 6, 2023 16:30:17 GMT -6
As the day has gone by I’ve been thinking that so I’m glad someone mentioned it. At the top, I would almost argue they’re a little low. But yes, toward the bottom they are generally higher. I just remember scoring 90-94 at championships and getting 85-87 the following week at GN, but I’m getting on and that was 10-14 years ago 😂 Your experience is not unique transitioning from MSBA finals to Grand Nationals. I know this lol
|
|
|
Post by rlrrll on Nov 6, 2023 19:02:57 GMT -6
I think you chose to take things out of context. I feel like most people would put Grove City in the top 5% of bands in Ohio but in a National competition with programs from other states they scores in the 67% percentile. It's a respectable showing Also, my fat and happy comment was taken out of context and has zero to do with money. It has to do with accepting status quo and not pushing for more. Where is the incentive for Grove City to do more? They can stay local and win grand champion at virtually every show or they can push their students to be even better performers on a national scale. Other schools choose to do differently. As you say, they design to the sheets. So if a band desires to compete at a higher level than what OMEA offers, why should they continue to do OMEA competitions if there is no reward or quality feedback given to help them reach that higher level? Also, since you brought money into the equation? How does OMEA help the underprivileged programs succeed? I personally know someone who teaches at an underprivileged program and doesn't take kids to solo and ensemble or district contest any longer because they get nothing beneficial from OMEA in their situation. They had a student get a III in solo and ensemble (probably deserved a II as far as I know) and the judge feedback as to why was simply revolving around the quality of the instrument the student was playing on. Not everyone can afford a top quality concert instrument. The one thing we can agree on is that OMEA is not right for everybody just like MSBA and BOA is not right for everybody. The question becomes what are the options for those people who don't have other options? I think your last paragraph sums it up. However, I would strongly encourage you to keep an eye on OMEA in the future. Significant changes have already been made. Several of the caption heads that run the different divisions (Music, GE, Visual, etc) are people that never would have been in positions of authority a generation ago. The visual and color guard sheets were completely rewritten this year and now much more closely align with the sheets of other organizations such as BOA, and I’m told the remainder of the sheets will be rewritten in the next year or two. FWIW, I have had more than one BOA Regional Finalist band director tell me that this year they received far better feedback at OMEA shows than they did at MSBA. Take that for whatever it’s worth. I do hope things get better. I also think MSBA judging is not as good as it was 10 years ago. My biggest issue just been consistency in how sheets are utilized and judges are trained to give the proper feedback. If OMEA is updating sheets great. Now let's get consistency on how criteria is looked at by the individuals who use them.
|
|
|
Post by hewhowaits on Nov 7, 2023 5:42:07 GMT -6
Now let's get consistency on how criteria is looked at by the individuals who use them. This could be posted in EVERY discussion about judging in EVERY circuit in marching band, drum corps, indoor events, and of course - judged athletics such as gymnastics and figure skating.
|
|
|
Post by rkemper on Nov 7, 2023 10:05:12 GMT -6
Does OMEA post final detail results? If so, could someone share the link or info about specifically Newark Ohio and Crooksville Ohio ( first time qualifying in their crooksvilles history, got straight 1s at state)
|
|
|
Post by N.E. Brigand on Nov 7, 2023 12:02:38 GMT -6
Does OMEA post final detail results? If so, could someone share the link or info about specifically Newark Ohio and Crooksville Ohio (first time qualifying in Crooksville's history, got straight 1s at state)? The only thing OMEA officially publishes is each band's overall rating, and that only for state marching band finals: I, II, III, IV, or V. Of course, by the very nature of state finals, OMEA also lists most bands who received an overall I rating at least once at a local competition, because that's how a band qualifies for state. (I say "most" because not every band who received an overall I rating at a local competition chooses to attend state. For example, Kettering Fairmont and Worthington Kilbourne received an overall I rating at the Buckeye Invitational on Oct. 14, but neither band chose to attend state finals this year.) In the previous two years, several observers noticed that OMEA's state finals website was showing the recaps: the list of each of the seven individual ratings the bands received. (Five of those ratings count toward the overall rating: two music, two general effect, and one visual. From those five, a band needs to get at least three I ratings and two II ratings to earn an overall I rating. The other two ratings do not count toward the overall rating: percussion and guard.) Based on a conversation I had with someone at OMEA in 2021, I'm pretty sure that posting of recaps was unintentional. I don't know if they made the same mistake (if mistake it was) this year. I haven't checked but neop may know (even if he has cut out the area code from his name). (Pausing for a historical note. Prior to 2020, (i) the overall rating was based on seven judges, (ii), there were nine judges issuing ratings, (iii) there were two visual judges, (iv) percussion counted toward the overall rating, (v) the percussion rating was actually a joint effort by the percussion judge and the two music judges, (vi) there were two guard judges who ratings did not count toward the overall rating, (vii) the overall score at local competitions was out of a total of 300 points not 100 points, and (viii) the percussion judge's score counted for just 10 points toward the overall score.) That said, some people occasionally get access to and share some details from OMEA's recaps, for state finals and/or for local competitions. The HornRank member who most often had that good fortune and generosity is ohioguy2 . Thanks to his efforts, we learned the scores at local competitions on six of this year's seven regular season weekends, as well as for all local competitions last year, and many local competitions the previous year. In two posts (one for each weekend), he also shared with us a list of all bands at state finals who received "Straight Ones," i.e., Superior ratings from all seven judges. In performance order: Sat., Oct. 28 (21 of 43 bands)North Royalton Delaware Hayes Dublin Coffman Hilliard Bradley Hilliard Davidson Hoover Fairfield Teays Valley Dublin Jerome Hilliard Darby Forest Hills Tri-Valley Thomas Worthington Dublin Scioto Madeira Central Crossing Westerville North Licking Heights Heath Grove City Medina Sun., Oct. 29 (6 of 25 bands)Springboro Loveland Van Buren Walnut Hills Deer Park Beavercreek Sat., Nov. 4 (7 of 27 bands)Copley Nordonia Belpre St. Clairsville Willoughby South Berne Union Brunswick Sun., Nov. 5 (3 of 26 bands)Miamisburg Kings Hamilton As you can see, Crooksville, who appeared on the second Sunday, is not on that list. Neither is Newark (who appeared on the first Saturday). However, Crooksville has no guard, so it's possible that they received a I rating from all six judges who viewed the band. The guard judge, Doug Perry, probably spent that 15-minute slot checking his emails or grabbing a snack. Perhaps ohioguy2 would be able to tell you how it broke down for them?
|
|
|
Post by ohioguy2 on Nov 7, 2023 12:55:25 GMT -6
Does OMEA post final detail results? If so, could someone share the link or info about specifically Newark Ohio and Crooksville Ohio (first time qualifying in Crooksville's history, got straight 1s at state)? The only thing OMEA officially publishes is each band's overall rating, and that only for state marching band finals: I, II, III, IV, or V. Of course, by the very nature of state finals, OMEA also lists most bands who received an overall I rating at least once at a local competition, because that's how a band qualifies for state. (I say "most" because not every band who received an overall I rating at a local competition chooses to attend state. For example, Kettering Fairmont and Worthington Kilbourne received an overall I rating at the Buckeye Invitational on Oct. 14, but neither band chose to attend state finals this year.) In the previous two years, several observers noticed that OMEA's state finals website was showing the recaps: the list of each of the seven individual ratings the bands received. (Five of those ratings count toward the overall rating: two music, two general effect, and one visual. From those five, a band needs to get at least three I ratings and two II ratings to earn an overall I rating. The other two ratings do not count toward the overall rating: percussion and guard.) Based on a conversation I had with someone at OMEA in 2021, I'm pretty sure that posting of recaps was unintentional. I don't know if they made the same mistake (if mistake it was) this year. I haven't checked but neop may know (even if he has cut out the area code from his name). (Pausing for a historical note. Prior to 2020, (i) the overall rating was based on seven judges, (ii), there were nine judges issuing ratings, (iii) there were two visual judges, (iv) percussion counted toward the overall rating, (v) the percussion rating was actually a joint effort by the percussion judge and the two music judges, (vi) there were two guard judges who ratings did not count toward the overall rating, (vii) the overall score at local competitions was out of a total of 300 points not 100 points, and (viii) the percussion judge's score counted for just 10 points toward the overall score.) That said, some people occasionally get access to and share some details from OMEA's recaps, for state finals and/or for local competitions. The HornRank member who most often had that good fortune and generosity is ohioguy2 . Thanks to his efforts, we learned the scores at local competitions on six of this year's seven regular season weekends, as well as for all local competitions last year, and many local competitions the previous year. In two posts (one for each weekend), he also shared with us a list of all bands at state finals who received "Straight Ones," i.e., Superior ratings from all seven judges. In performance order: Sat., Oct. 28 (21 of 43 bands)North Royalton Delaware Hayes Dublin Coffman Hilliard Bradley Hilliard Davidson Hoover Fairfield Teays Valley Dublin Jerome Hilliard Darby Forest Hills Tri-Valley Thomas Worthington Dublin Scioto Madeira Central Crossing Westerville North Licking Heights Heath Grove City Medina Sun., Oct. 29 (6 of 25 bands)Springboro Loveland Van Buren Walnut Hills Deer Park Beavercreek Sat., Nov. 4 (7 of 27 bands)Copley Nordonia Belpre St. Clairsville Willoughby South Berne Union Brunswick Sun., Nov. 5 (3 of 26 bands)Miamisburg Kings Hamilton As you can see, Crooksville, who appeared on the second Sunday, is not on that list. Neither is Newark (who appeared on the first Saturday). However, Crooksville has no guard, so it's possible that they received a I rating from all six judges who viewed the band. The guard judge, Doug Perry, probably spent that 15-minute slot checking his emails or grabbing a snack. Perhaps ohioguy2 would be able to tell you how it broke down for them? As mentioned, Crooksville did not receive a rating in color guard since they didn’t have one. They received a II in percussion, and a I from all other judges. Newark actually received a III in color guard, and a I from all other judges.
|
|
|
Post by neop on Nov 7, 2023 16:15:59 GMT -6
I haven't checked but neop may know (even if he has cut out the area code from his name). Not my area code, but my birthday It just so happens to be the area code of Cleveland though. Also, no, they didn't do that this year.
|
|
|
Post by N.E. Brigand on Nov 7, 2023 17:27:48 GMT -6
I haven't checked but neop may know (even if he has cut out the area code from his name). Not my area code, but my birthday It just so happens to be the area code of Cleveland though. Also, no, they didn't do that this year. That area code used to cover the northeast quarter of the state, extending west at least as far as Vermilion, I think.
|
|
|
Post by ohmbandfan26 on Nov 14, 2023 10:54:17 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by oldtimer on Nov 14, 2023 12:40:59 GMT -6
May God be with those involved and the emergency responders and hospital personnel. Every parent's worst nightmare.
|
|
|
Post by lostinthebands on Nov 14, 2023 20:54:04 GMT -6
Just heartbroken by this. Makes me so sad that this seems to happen multiple times during/after the marching band season, as I recall many similar incidents from last year. Praying for good health and safety for those involved 😢
|
|
|
Post by N.E. Brigand on Nov 18, 2023 13:43:46 GMT -6
Well, that does it. We can't trust OMEA and we can't trust MSBA. I think BOA needs to take over all 81 Ohio band competitions. I estimated wrong. The correct number appears to be 79 events: 58 regular season OMEA events (one cancelled at the last minute due to weather), 4 days of OMEA state finals, 11 regular season MSBA events in Ohio, 4 MSBA championship events in Ohio, and 2 BOA events in Ohio. However, in August there had been 60 local OMEA competitions scheduled, and both of the BOA competitions as well as some of the MSBA competitions included prelims and finals rounds (in some cases requiring separate admission from the audience). The number of participating groups in events varied from as few as four bands (at the Philo Challenge on Sep. 9th) to as many as 43 bands (at the first day of OMEA finals on Oct. 28th).
|
|
|
Post by N.E. Brigand on Dec 10, 2023 18:52:08 GMT -6
Never have I been so shocked about a band’s rating as I am at this moment with Avon Lake. Had a chance today to share a similar thought with Avon Lake's director, Josh Brunger, who is succeeding Dale Hildebrand (who retired several years ago from his post as band director of Brookside H.S. in Sheffield) as the conductor of the Lorain TubaChristmas, which Hildebrand started in 1996. (Nationally, this is the 50th year for TubaChristmas -- but only if you count 2020. Were there any TubaChristmases that year?) I think he's seen your comment! He said someone had sent him a screenshot of a forum post that sounded a lot like yours.
|
|
|
Post by N.E. Brigand on Dec 10, 2023 21:21:25 GMT -6
Never have I been so shocked about a band’s rating as I am at this moment with Avon Lake. Had a chance today to share a similar thought with Avon Lake's director, Josh Brunger, who is succeeding Dale Hildebrand (who retired several years ago from his post as band director of Brookside H.S. in Sheffield) as the conductor of the Lorain TubaChristmas, which Hildebrand started in 1996. (Nationally, this is the 50th year for TubaChristmas -- but only if you count 2020. Were there any TubaChristmases that year?) I think he's seen your comment! He said someone had sent him a screenshot of a forum post that sounded a lot like yours. Before today, I hadn't heard the news, mentioned a couple months ago in this post, that composer Robert W. Smith, a major figure in drum corps and marching bands, died in September at the age of 64 due to complications from heart surgery. Brunger dedicated one of today's TubaChristmas performances to Smith's memory.
|
|
|
Post by N.E. Brigand on Mar 23, 2024 1:00:04 GMT -6
Attending Grand Nationals meant I never had time to write up my OMEA state finals rankings, and while no one has been clamoring for those lists, they had become something of a tradition, so belatedly, here they are. As usual, parentheses indicate where the judges and I disagreed on ratings:
Saturday, October 28, 2023 Grove City, “Piano State of Mind” Dublin Coffman “Shimmering Scales” Forest Hills, “Mix Tape” Thomas Worthington, “Unfinished” Hilliard Darby, “Reach for the Gold Ring” Dublin Jerome, “Inside/Outside” Fairfield, “We’re Not in Kansas Anymore” Amherst Steele, “The Haunted Castle” Central Crossing, “eXile” Medina, “Tune After Toon” North Royalton, “Fortune Favors the Bold” Hillard Davidson, “A Day in the Life” Louisville, “Blackbird Set Free” Licking Heights, “Disco Inferno” Hoover, “The Journey to Myself” Hillard Bradley, “As Mad As a Hatter” Olentangy, “Of Sirens and Sorrow” Sycamore, “OtherWorld” Westerville North, “Non-Stop” Pickerington Central, “Clash of Kings” Middletown, “Wonderland” Westerville South, “Golden Hour” Newark, “Through the Woods” Teays Valley, “The Journey” Delaware Hayes, “One Giant Leap” Dublin Scioto, “A Place of Peace” Franklin Heights, “Now’s the Time” Philo, “All Aboard” Heath, “Medusa” Madeira, “Highway to Hope: A Post-Apocalyptic Journey” Tri-Valley, “Achieve Your Dream” Bloom Carroll, “Happily Ever After?” Avon Lake, “Road Trip” (II) Dawson-Bryant, “Vampire Chronicles” Canal Winchester, “The Cosmos” (II) South Point, “On the Fence” Lexington, “Plead the Fifth” Rock Hill, “Mad World” - - - - - - - - - - here’s where I’d have the I/II cut-off - - - - - - - - - - Marion Harding, “Bella Italia” (I) Meigs, “Shine On” (I) Arcadia, “Magnum Opus” New Philadelphia, “Wired” Reynoldsburg, “Carpe Diem”
Sunday, October 29, 2023 Beavercreek, “Bedrock” Springboro, “Timber!” Walnut Hills, “Level Up” Van Buren, “Cirque Noir” Eastern Brown, “Selva Oscura” Olentangy Liberty, “Witch and Famous” Loveland, “Hypercharged” Perry, “American Rhapsody” Deer Park, “The American West” Chillicothe, “From the Frontier” Piqua, “Never Young” Warren Local, “Warped” Troy, “On Wings of Beauty” Licking Valley, “Circus Dreams” (II) Maumee, “Shockwave” (II) Bishop Watterson, “Outside Looking In” Portsmouth West, “Luna” - - - - - - - - - - here’s where I’d have the I/II cut-off - - - - - - - - - - Kalida, “Woodland Voices” (I) Highland, “Upside Down” Gallia Academy, “Upside Down” (I) Athens, “It’s About Time” (I) Northwest, “Pixels” Woodmore, “Go West” Van Wert, “A Word from our Sponsors” Newton, “Twinkle”
Saturday, November 4, 2023 Berne Union, “Goliath” Brunswick, “Star-Crossed” Nordonia, “A Day in Paris” Copley, “Your Life’s Blueprint” St. Edward, “Rusalka” Norton, “Puzzled” Black River, “Light Up the Night” St. Clairsville, “Just My Imagination” Avon, “Villains” Willoughby South, “Waves” Revere, “Middle Ground” Mentor, “FCMB: Flight 2023” Cloverleaf, “Heist” (II) Wellington, “Groovitude” (II) Lancaster, “Classic Rach” - - - - - - - - - - here’s where I’d have the I/II cut-off - - - - - - - - - - Marietta, “Starry Night” Ridgewood, “Let’s Ride” Sylvania Southview, “Disco Ball” Crestwood, “Boxed In” Indian Valley, “Engines” Perkins, “iBand” Belpre, “Through the Clouds” (I) Buckeye, “Conspiracy Theory” Ada, “The Warrior’s Odyssey” River View, “River Songs” Marlington, “Rider from Nowhere” Meadowbrook, “Blueprint”
Sunday, November 5, 2023 Miamisburg, “Cold Hearted Snake” Kings, “It’s Just a Matter of Time” Ross, “Red Skies” Hamilton, “The Masters” Marysville, “Uncharted” Walter E. Stebbins, “Reflections” Versailles, “The Tale of the Sherwood Forest” (II) Westland, “Reign” Tippecanoe, “Shine” (II) Maumee, “Shockwave” (II) Lynchburg Clay “The Greatest Show on Earth” (II) Wilmington, “The Magic of the Music Box” (II) - - - - - - - - - - here’s where I’d have the I/II cut-off - - - - - - - - - - Columbus Grove, “Journey Through the Desert” (I) Fort Recovery, “Scarlet” John Glenn, “Storm Front” Clinton-Massie, “Under the Stars” (I) Arcanum, “Bound by the Sea” Crooksville, “The Hall of the Mountain King” (I) London, “Out of Darkness” (I) Covington, “Pixels” (I) Rossford, “aRound” (I) Valley, “Spark of Invention” Carlisle, “Villain” Northwestern, “Re: Connect” Chesapeake, “String Theory” Maysville, “Within the Castle Walls”
And here are my class placements and captions:
Class C 1. Eastern Brown - Music, Visual, Effect 2. Philo 3. Dawson-Bryant
Class B 1. Deer Park - Music, Effect 2. Heath - Visual 3. Black River
Class A 1. Louisville - Music (tie), Effect 2. Van Buren - Visual 3. Copley - Music (tie)
Class AA 1. Grove City - Music, Effect (tie) 2. Dublin Coffman - Visual 3. Forest Hills - Effect (tie)
That's three years in a row that Eastern Brown is, for me, the undisputed top band in Class C (this year I first saw them at the Logan Elm competition; had they been at Obetz earlier in the day, a Class A medal wouldn't have been impossible), but the second- and third-best bands in that class were stronger than we saw in 2021 and 2022.
|
|